E. K. MULGAN.]

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152. Do you think, if the training-college authorities had the privilege of sending their students to observe the very best teachers in and around the city to work and probably take part in the work of teaching, that would be a help in the direction of giving them the power to control?— I undoubtedly do, and in point of fact it is being done here. We send a few of our best students to certain schools. 153. In regard to free books, we have been told that in numbers of schools in many education districts the shelves and cupboards are filled with books that are not being used by the children. It has been stated that probably 85 per cent, are purchasing their own books, while the free books are lying in the cupboards : have you found that to be the case? —One of our Inspectors drew my attention to that last year, but he saw it in only a few cases in the smaller schools, and we made special comment on it in our Inspectors' annual report. I may say that Ido not think that obtains to any appreciable extent in the Auckland District. 154. Do you know of the experiment that has been tried in Berkley and Concord, United States of America, where promotions are made biennially instead of annually ?—I do not know of them. 155. Do you think it is a matter worth consideration —that is to say, have two sections in each class, in order that the brightest pupils in the class may not be retarded unnecessarily in their progress?— Why should they be retarded? The teacher now has perfect liberty to classify the children as he likes. 156. As an experienced Inspector, do you not think the general practice is to keep a child one year in a class?— Undoubtedly, but there is no reason why it should be the general practice. 157. On the question of reading, the Victorian and South Australian Education Departments have recently issued a new course in the subject of reading in which special stress is laid upon phonics or voice-production : do you think it would be a wise thing to take that into consideration in preparing our new syllabus?—l do undoubtedly, not so much from the reading point of view, because, after all, very few people are ever called upon to read aloud, but from the point of view of speaking. 158. Mr. Hogben.] You know that it was in the amending Act of 1908 that the new scheme of staffing our schools was introduced? —Yes. 159. And you know that the basis of the new staffing when it is complete is a head teacher and one assistant to every fifty pupils?— Yes. 160. And the old basis was one teacher and one pupil-teacher to every ninety pupils?— Yes. 161. With regard to the new teachers' regulations, you think that science-teaching is necessary for a teacher who asks for a full certificate? —Yes. 162. And you think it would be a sham science-teaching if it had not work attached to it?— Undoubtedly. 163. You are aware that the Boards are provided altogether now with £4,000 for the training of teachers —£3,000 is put down for subjects of manual and technical instruction, and £1,000 was the special vote last year?— Yes. 164. You are also aware that these subjects are required in the certificates of practical work, and two subjects of manual and technical instruction?— Yes. 165. So that the whole of the £4,000 can be used by the different Boards for the purpose of training teachers ?—Yes. 166. Have you thought that that would give you in Auckland something like £800 or £900 a year for training uncertificated teachers in future in these subjects? —No, I did not think of it in that way. 167. If you had that money, would it not be enough to pay for something like six or eight weeks at £1 per week per teacher, and to give them full instruction for the eight weeks in the scientific work they have to do?— Yes, it would be enough, at any rate, to supply the instruction, and to pay the expenses of going backwards and forwards to some centre. Their salaries would still go on. 168. I am contemplating the teachers giving up something, perhaps their Christmas holidays, for one year. You are aware that that is done in other parts of the world? —Yes. 169. If they gave up their Christmas holidays once in order to get the certificate required, and worked five hours a day for eight weeks, they would get a good start in elementary science?— That is a long time to ask them to work. 170. Do you think they would object to do that if they really wanted their certificates? —No. We do it here now in a somewhat similar way. We ask them to give up a week's holiday, and we give them an additional two weeks' work. 171. You are aware that at the Ontario Agricultural College and at the Hawkesbury College they do that?— Yes. They not only do that, but there is a tremendous amount of competition amongst the teachers to get into the Hawkesbury College. 172. Do you think that a good many of our teachers would be willing to take such a course if it is provided?—-Yes, I think a good number of them would. Some modified form of that could be adopted. 173. So if the Department and Boards would agree to the establishing and recognition of classes it would be possible, with very little more expense than now, to provide such instruction? —Yes. 174. There is nothing in the regulations against it now? —Nothing that I know of. 175. You are aware that some districts are paying boarding-allowances to teachers for these classes? —I was not aware of it. I knew they were paying travelling-allowance. 176. Supposing you were to have a promotion scheme for the whole Dominion, it would be absolutely essential that there should be a conference between the Inspectors of the several districts? —Yes.