A.—s

30

have here the Secretariat, and during the four years the Secretariat to whom '. As I understand, to the Prime Minister, according to Mr. Deakin's proposal. The Prime Minister of England is a pretty busy man. I am the Prime Minister of a very small Colony, large in territory but small in population, and I am a pretty busy man, and I imagine that if the Prime Minister of England could add some 24 hours to the 24 hours of the day it would not be too much for him; and I think if you are to burden him with any more duties, I see some difficulty there. The Colonial Office, which is already divided into departments, is the proper department to deal, under ministerial responsibility, with the self-governing Colonies or Crown Colonies. I would not like to pass by the suggestion of Mr. Deakin. I simply give my impression, and, as I said a moment ago, I approach the subject with an absolutely open mind. lam simply pointing out some of the objections which I see at this moment. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I would like to say a few words upon this important matter, Lord Elgin. Whether the organization is termed a council or a conference to my mind is not of very great importance so long as the position and duties of the Council are defined, and speaking for my Colony I lay it down as one of the cardinal principles of such an organization, that there should be no interference with the present rights and powers of the governments of those self-governing countries; and in that respect if we are safeguarded, as I am perfectly sure everyone is desirous of doing, what we term the meeting of the Prime Ministers does not matter. If it is covered by the term " Conference," in deference to Sir Wilfrid Laurier's wish I have not the slightest objection, and I should be only to glad to fall into line with it. Why I preferred the word " Council," is because it indicates permanency, and it is with the object of having a permanent institution established that I think we ought if we can to arrive at some decision of a definite nature in dealing with this matter. Now, upon the point iast referred to by Sir Wilfrid Laurier, and dealt with by Mr. Deakin in the course of his speech (upon which I should like to add I have had no conference with Mr. Deakin), I should like to say, in regard to the suggestion of the method of dealing with Governments of the Crown Colonies and those of the self-governing Colonies, our self-governing Colonies are increasing in population and in power daily; during the next 10 or 20 years there is no man sitting at this table can contemplate what those countries, among them the Dominion of Canada, are going to attain to, and I am persuaded in my own mind that although the work of the Colonial Office —and I have had a fairly long experience as a Minister of the Crown in our country—with regard to our self-governing countries has been of the finest possible character, there is, however, a feeling in the minds of administrators certainly, that we occupy a very different position to those Crown Colonies. We regard the Crown Colonies as being governed and controlled by the British Government entirely, with the advice of the experienced representatives who go out as Governors to those Crown Colonies. We look upon them as portions of the British Empire governed from England, and under their complete control and direction, subject to the advice, as I say, of the Governor resident there. Our self-governing countries are not in the same position. We are responsible to our own people and govern ourselves, and we want to be regarded as we always have been, though working through the Secretaries of State for the Colonies. We should be in a different category to the Crown Colonies. I think the term " Colony," so far as our countries are concerned, ought to cease, and that that term ought to apply to the Crown Colonies purely, and that those of us who are not at present known as Dominions or Commonwealths, should

Second Day. 17 April 1907.

Proposed Imperial Council. (Sir Wilfrid Laurier.)