F. WILLIAMS.]

15

i.—id.

204. Mr. Taylor."] Was there anything the matter with it?— Well, it was not tip-top. I would like to say something else. When the association took over Mr. Heslop's quantity of flour he had to send it to me. 205. How do you mean " took it over " ?—I had a certain quantity of flour to come in from Mr. Heslop, and when he joined the Millers' Association the association delivered this flour that was to come to me from Mr. Heslop. 206. They completed his contract? —Yes; but they would only complete it with one miller's flour ; they would not let me have the choice of brands. 207. Whose flour did they deliver ?—lt is hardly right to say. 208. Does this invoice [Exhibit K l ] show it ?—Yes, it does. 209. It was sold through Mr. Heslop by Mr. Evans and delivered by the association ?—Yes. 210. Mr. Hall.] Did the association deliver that ?—Yes. 211. You have no actual knowledge of it ?—lf they did not Ido not know who did. 212. Mr. Taylor.] In regard to this transaction of Mr. Heslop's, you say that Mr. Heslop told you he had joined the association ? —Yes. 213. Did he give that as a reason why he did not himself deliver that flour to you ? —He said the association would take it over. 214. But did you pay him for the flour?—l think I paid Mr. Heslop—either Mr. Heslop or the association—but Mr. Heslop, I think. 215. Did you take it for granted that the association was connected with the balance of Mr. Heslop's contract ?—Yes. 216. What did you understand when you got that invoice from Mr. Heslop stating that he was charging you for so many sacks of Evans's flour?— What I wanted to point out was one of the greatest things I have against the Millers' Association, which is that they were not giving a baker the choice of flour—that is, with regard to quality. They made me take, I reckon, an inferior brand of flour. 217. You had no power to order a particular brand ?—Yes; but I had to take what they gave me or none. 218. How do you explain to yourself the appearance of Evans's name on that bill—-simply that you had been forced to take Evans's flour ?—Yes, that is the position. 219. And you were charged for it by Heslop ? —Yes. 220. Did you understand you had been forced to take over Evans's flour because the association had taken over his business? —I did. 221. When you applied for 50 or 100 tons did Mr. Jameson refuse you because he said he would not allow you to speculate on a rising market ? Was that the reason given ?—No. 222. Mr. Rutherford.] You said that you applied on one occasion for 50 or 100 tons of flour, while your normal order was about 25 tons per month ?—Yes. 223. Would you be prepared to contradict Mr. Jameson if he stated that you asked for 100 tons on that occasion?— Yes. 224. If Mr. Jameson swore that you applied for 100 tons you would be prepared to deny that?— Yes, it was for 50 or 100 tons. I left it to themselves as to which they would accept. 225. Did they offer to supply you or did they supply you with your usual quantity ?—No. 226. If Mr. Jameson swears that he did offer you your usual quantity would you deny that ?— Yes. 227. It was given in evidence that there are about fifty mills in the colony, and that twentythree joined the association, five of which have since seceded: could you not have got your flour from the remainder of those mills —say, the twenty-seven non-associated mills in the colony ? — Mr. W. Evans is non-associated, in Timaru. 228. You did not try any other non-associated miller than Mr. Evans?—Yes, I did; but some of them were not making flour. 229. Did you try Dunedin ?-—No, not as far as Dunedin, because I believe they were all in the association. 230. In fixing the price of bread did the bakers fix the price, or the Bakers' Union ?—-The Bakers' Union. 231. You have complained, have you not, that the millers' trust had something to do with it ? ■ —Well, the millers stopped the supply of flour. 232. At whose instigation ? —The bakers. 233. Did you cut prices as against other bakers ? —Never ; I never broke a rule over that. I might say that it was impossible to buy a sack of flour in Christchurch or Canterbury. 234. Mr. Witheford.] I notice you stated that about November or December the association refused your order for 50 or 100 tons because the market was rising: if the market had been falling would you have given that order? —It would have been for 30 or 40 tons, then. 235. Mr. Hardy.] Dealing with the trade generally, do you consider the bakery trade a profitable one ?—There is not a great lot in it, but at times there is. 236. Are there many insolvencies in it ?—There are as many in it as in most trades, I think. 237. Is it within your knowledge that a greater number of insolvencies took place before the bakers formed themselves into an association than have taken place since ? —There have been more since, because they could not get the credit. 238. Have you looked up the records in the Mercantile Gazette ? Do the records there show the exact position so far as the insolvencies occurred? —I think more bakers have gone out of the business since. 239. lam speaking of those who have gone into the Insolvency Court ?—I should say that. 240. You believe more have become insolvent since the bakers formed themselves into a union than before ?—Yes, I do indeed.