A.—4

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a greater outlet for our produce. I fail to see it. I have lived in Australia and know what its requirements are. It requires nothing from us excepting oats and soft woods. Now they are federated Victoria can supply all the oats and dairy produce they want. 165. Do you think they are likely to keep on the duty against oats and timber?— They have done so, but the people have to pay it themselves. I know the prevalent idea is that if we were federated the workers would reap the benefits of the increased production ; but some years ago, when Mr. Webb was Minister for Agriculture in Victoria, he had to go to America for the Government. Now, at that time reapers-and-binders were admitted to Victoria duty-free, and yet they were sold there at £56 each. It was felt there was something wrong in that respect, and when Mr. Webb went to Frisco he went into one of the large reaper-and-binder factories and asked them the price of the machines. They told him £28. He said he would take two hundred; but when he told the manufacturer he wanted them for Victoria, the latter replied, " We cannot do that, because we have our agents there, and you must get them through them." This showed that rings and monopolies did exactly as they do now, and that the people got no benefit from the low price of the goods or from the removal of the duties. The same remark applies to the manufacturer of gum-boots, which are manufactured by the North British Company. There is only one firm that has the agency, and when Gavin Gibson, of Melbourne, sent a cheque for £3,000 Home for boots the cheque was returned, and they were told to get them through Neil and Co. If a loaf is only 3d. and I have not got that 3d., it might as well be 3s. as far as lam concerned. Give the work-ing-man the opportunity of fair wages and he will never ask to be governed by any other people outside his own colony, he will never want to go anywhere else to work, and he will never grumble at the taxation you impose. 166. Hon. Captain Bussell.] Are wages better in New Zealand than they are in Victoria?— Taking them all round, they are. In my trade a man under certain circumstances might earn more there than here, but there are different surroundings. 167. You think the wages are better here than in Victoria, notwithstanding their protective duty ?—Taking it all round, I believe we are better off in many respects ; but you must not always reckon according to the wage standpoint. I might earn 3s. or 4s. more a week here, but perhaps I would have to pay 6s. or Bs. more for rent. 168. With our climate, would artisans be able to do better "work than they can in the hotter climate in Australia ?—I do not know. I have seen some pretty tough " rags "in Australia—men who would work with our men, and not shirk their work. They get accustomed to the climate. Physically, I believe our men are better men; but when it comes to the physical question it is wonderful what the Australians go through. 169. You fear that free-trade would mean that the larger concerns of Australia would swamp our concerns here ? —Yes ; and it might possibly mean that the German and Japanese manufacturers would come in also. Those people work under indifferent conditions, and I did not leave the Old Country to work under the same conditions here. I am not afraid to meet any man under fair conditions, but not under the conditions the German and Chinese work under. 170. What do you refer to when you speak of Chinese labour ?—I believe it would open the door to other classes of goods. Possibly it might not directly affect the bootmakers, but it might be possible that the German boats and Japanese lines would bring their goods through. 171. How does federation affect our trade with China and Japan?—l do not think it would increase it in any shape or form, excepting that some of the goods I mentioned would come in. 172. Are you afraid of Chinese and Japanese labour getting into Australia ?—-Yes, unless great care is taken to keep them out. 173. You think in Queensland there will be a question of coloured versus white labour?—lt must ultimately rise, and it will have to be settled. 174. Do you think the industries of Northern Queensland can be carried on in the tropics with white labour ?—My conviction is that they might be; I have met men who came from Bowen who weighed 15 st. 175. Did they do outdoor work?— Yes ;in the sugar-fields. I believe the Anglo-Saxon can do or go anywhere. 176. Can you show me a tropical country where the Anglo-Saxon does do hard outdoor work continuously ?—He is not employed, simply because the class of manufacture involved is not profitable enough to employ him. 177. Can you give an illustration where a white man can stand such work in the tropics for one or two generations ? —ln Queensland they do that now ; but I would qualify that statement by saying that there would need to be a constant accession of fresh blood. That is necessary, otherwise I think the race would die out. 178. Mr. Roberts.] I think your remarks as to the effect federation would have on the labourmarket pointed to the conclusion that you are distinctly of opinion that federation would have the effect of reducing the rate of wages in this colony ?—Yes ; and, although I am a workman at the present time, I have been an employer of labour, and I claim to speak both for the employer and employe. 179. I suppose you have noticed that other colonies in Australia are moving in the direction of obtaining Conciliation and Arbitration Courts ?—Yes. 180. If that comes about, I presume the only effect would be that one of two things must happen : either wages must increase in Australia or decrease here. Do you not think it is more likely that the result of conciliation and arbitration would be to bring the Australian wages up to the level of the New Zealand standard wages ?—That is a very difficult matter to decide offhand. I am perfectly satisfied to hold to what we have got. 181. In reference to the question of Kanaka labour and Chinese labour, have you any idea what these men are paid in the sugar-tields ?—No, I could not say myself; but I understand they get about 10s. a week.