31

1.—13

66. But you should give the body strong medicines ? —But you have been giving them, to bodies which did not require them. Clause 22, subsection (2), is another instance of the strong dealing with a master. I must say that, as far as I know, not a single complaint has been made of my treatment of my hands. Clause 25, subsection (c) : " Declare average wages." If you turn now to the third schedule, you will see there that the first year's pay is 14 per cent, on the minimum rate of wages to each handicraft apprentice, in ratio to the average wages of journeymen or adult wage-earners. I meant to ask the heads of my workrooms how they treat their beginners, but I have forgotten it. I rather thmk that in the dressmaking and millinery they give twelve months without payment; so now you are imposing a tax of 14 per cent, on the adult wage-earners to give these apprentices, and it is only reasonable to say that any one beginning must necessarily detract from the earning power of those who are able to fulfil their duties, because they have got to teach those who have just appeared upon the scene. So that we would get less labour and have to pay a higher rate for it. 67. You think the percentage rate too high ? —lt is not the custom. 68. But the custom may be a bad one?—l do not know that it is. The young people are always anxious enough to learn a business, and if you introduce these proposals we shall have to insist on a premium. With regard to the other conditions—two to six years—l suppose the Governor has a right to determine when the apprentice shall cease ? 69. Our object in taking evidence is to make the Bill next session a good workable measure ?— This rate of wages I would ignore, if the apprentice showed greater ability than those about him or her ; but if you force me to pay a fixed rate, I should simply take it and abide by it. 70. Then, instead of it being a fixed rate, you would prefer it to be left to the parties concerned? —Yes. 71. What is your general opinion of the Bill? do you think it calculated to do good or ill?—To my staff I think it perfectly unnecessary. When I snowed my dressmaker this Bill, and told her what would happen —that we would have to pay the apprentices —she promptly, and without premeditation, said : " Then we will not have apprentices." 72. Then, your opinion is that the Bill is not required?— That is my opinion.

APPENDICES.

APPENDIX A. Dear Sib,— Auckland, 16th August, 1894. We take the liberty of writing you re proposed Master and Apprentice Act. We have read same, and though at first it seemed to us very stringent, and, in fact, unnecessarily so, on second consideration, viewing the many trades and the condition of boys in same, we think that, owing to measures adopted by some employers, it may be required, and do not think that your colleague, the Hon. Mr. Beeves, would introduce same without good, reasons. At the same time, it is unfair to class all trades alike, conditions being different, and it will press unduly heavily on employers whose aim is to be just, and on some industries. It is not our intention, as we are not and have never been members of any association, to take any steps other than this letter. We would point out that our industry differs from the majority, as it requires years for an apprentice to gain the requisite practical and technical knowledge required ; and when the time is served, he is only then really beginning to understand the trade. The first year a boy is really a loss to us; and the second, very little use financially, considering waste of material, loss of time, &c. In our case we have no foreman, but control our various branches ourselves, and each branch is graded according to the value of the work. Our journeymen, therefore, earn various wages accordingly. We have never had a strike among our hands, and pay fair wages, in the proportion that the various varieties will afford. Competition is very keen, and it is only by judicious working of a limited number of young men with the journeymen that the business can be made to pay. For many years we have had to contend with foreign markets and local prejudice. With the help of machinery and the tariff we are almost enabled to keep the imported out of the market. In Auckland we are not aware of one carriage-builder who has retired on money made in the business, but we know of many who have failed—two during the last six months. It is very essential that our young men should have a technical knowledge, and we have made attempts to teach them after working-hours, but they will not take the trouble. We do the largest carriage-building business in the colony, and build the greatest variety of vehicles, and, in consequence, have inquiries for openings from improvers from all parts of the colony ; in some cases, offers to work for a time at apprentice wages for the experience. If the Bill passes in its present form we shall have to give up the export trade to the Islands. Every trip of the steamer we send two or three vehicles, and sometimes double. The profit on the drays is from ss. to 10s. a dray only. This trade consists of hand-carts, spring-carts, buggies, and drays. We have no indentured apprentices, and have had none, with one exception, for fourteen years. This exception was a failure, cancelled within twelve months. Our experience of thirty years is that they are a failure. We treat ours from a moral stand-point, and find it is the best without exception. We do not turn away our young men as soon as they have completed the required number of years, but keep them on, as circumstances will permit. Some, have been with us seventeen years, and some of our employes twenty-nine years. Our,young men. know full, well they are on their oWii bottom, and learn accordingly; notso with the indentured. Some of the