35

G.—4c

I have never attempted to go outside the limits of the plan produced. That is an exact copy of the document which I say was produced before Captain Messenger at the time of the signing of the lease. I will undertake to produce the document itself, which Captain Messenger denies he saw at the time, and witnesses to prove it. The persons interested under that agreement were Shore, his son, McMillan, and my son. The name of Shore's son was put in while I was out of the office, and when I came back I objected to it. I said there was no such understanding; however, it was put in. After that agreement was made Shore and McMillan went down to Mokau to live. I remained in New Plymouth. I desired to go to Mokau, but there was a meeting held amongst us at which Mr. Gillies, banker, was present, and, in the presence of us all, he said, " Mr. Jones, if you go there to live it will all go to smash." Mr. Gillies was to have had some interest in the agreement upon certain terms, which were never carried out. He said, " You must leave some business person here to be in communication with the Government and with the Native Land Courts, and to handle the thing." That was the reason I did not go down. Tilings went on that way for a long time, and I was very tired of it. I had spent a good deal of money on the Natives, and this led to a misunderstanding between McMillan and myself. I said, " I will spend no more money until we get a squaring of accounts." McMillan said he would pay no money until Shore was compelled to complete the title, as he had undertaken to do. All this time the land had not been put through the Court. We called on Shore and complained to him several times ; on one occasion I took Mr. Stockman, sen., and showed the necessity of something being done. We had by this time discovered that Shore had no influence amongst the Natives. The Natives used to take him by the back of the neck and bundle him out, and keep him out. Upon this occasion I brought Shore to book as to whether he would not do something to get the title. Shore turned on his heel and said, "I am working for myself; Ido not know you at all in the matter." This was at the corner of the street at Waitara. I felt much annoyed to think that my interest was in the hands of a man like that. I told him, " You are a damned scoundrel; you led us here and undertook to do these things, and now you turn traitor upon us." Every time I went to Mokau I found there was some disturbance between Shore and McMillan, and the Natives were very unsettled. Shore, to my own knowledge, was often prompting the Natives to drive McMillan away from there. Whenever I went there his conduct was the same towards 1113. About this time I went to Auckland and consulted Mr. Hesketh about this claim of McMillan's. The accounts with respect to it were all vouchers, and what were not vouchers were items initialled by McMillan. Mr. Hesketh commenced legal proceedings. I think it was in some way through Mr. Stockman, sen., speaking to McMillan. Stockman came to me and said, " Look here, what money McMillan has got he does not want to lose it by putting it into Mokau as Shore would never complete the title." He said, " What arrangement will you make about taking over his interest ? " I had no personal interview with McMillan ; T believe Stockman had.. The matter was finally settled in the terms of deed of re-lease already produced [No. 32]. The statement made by Shore in the eighth paragraph of his evidence, that I agreed to put £700 into the building of a steamer, is deliberately untrue. I hold a letter in Shore's handwriting, dated the Ist March, 1887 [produced], in which he says, "I am glad that Grey is going to make some allowance for the steamer, but don't you bother about the ' Hauraki,' as I am fully intending to have a steamer from Auckland on my own account." A few days after the receipt of that letter I went to Mokau and saw Shore. He asked me to write a letter to Mr. James Holmes for him, asking Holmes to build a steamer, paid he would give him a share in some of the land if he got any. The letter is in my handwriting; there was never any talk about money at all in relation to the steamer. A short time afterwards, when Holmes was beginning to build the steamer, I was in Auckland. James Holmes came to me and asked me if I would not take an interest in the boat; he told me he was building the boat half for himself and half for Shore; upon the terms of the letter I had written for Shore. He asked me if I could not put some money into the vessel, his main reason was that he thought I could make the vessel a greater success than Shore could, I being connected with Mokau. I replied, " I have no money for the purpose; the little money I have I require to keep the Natives going. I never by word or deed led Shore or Holmes to believe that I would take any interest in the vessel; and as for this statement about the money, it is absolutely untrue." When Holmes had built the hull he was stuck for money to put the machinery in, and I believe that to raise the money he gave a mortgage on. the hull. Finding that Shore had been working against me with the Natives, and also from a knowledge that he had no influence with the Natives, I made an agreement with Mr. W. H. Grace, of Waikato, to get the land put through the Court, and to get a lease from the Natives. Some time previous to this I had a meeting with Shore and his son. We came to an understanding that we would have nothing further to do with each other unless there should be some new agreement between us. Previous to the sitting of the Native Land Court in 1882 there was a large gathering of Natives at Mokau. The conclusion was arrived at that the land should not go through the' Court if Shore had anything to do with the lease or with the negotiations. Both Shore and I were present at that meeting. Mr. Grace came down to Waitara, and his influence undoubtedly induced Eewi to allow the Land Court to be held. I believe it would not have been held without his influence. Mrs. Grace is a sister of Mrs. Walker and a niece of Eewi. The Court sat in June, 1882. I took Eewi and Tawhana to attend the Court, and paid their expenses ; and also a lot of the other head Natives in the Waikato, and paid their expenses. In order to insure the success of the Court I sent expressly for Eewi, and the others came with him. Eewi's presence was also necessary in order to get the Poutama Block through the Court, in which the Mokau Natives were interested. All the Natives agreed to the eastern boundary as at present surveyed, from Totoro to the Mohakatino. When the land passed through the Court Wetere jumped up and said, " We are going to survey this land ourselves." Judge Mention said, "Now, Wetere, will there bo any trouble about this 6— G. 4c.