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to come to a conclusion as to what claims there might have been. I have noted these in red ink. If they had any claim they never applied for it. It is, I think, prima facie evidence that they had no claim, as they did not apply to the Commission. 170. Mr. Fulton.] That is nearly twenty years after their permissive claim expired ?—Yes ; I should imagine they were discharged about 1865; a great many men were discharged ihen. 171. The Chairman : There are no cases of hardship owing to the men's ignorance—no cases of that kind ?—Not one, I think. The whole thing wai very well known at that time certainly. There might have been a plea of ignorance before 1856 or 1858 amongst the soldiers who had been discharged. They might not have had the opportunity of learning of the privilege. In one case a man comes forward and makes a claim who was discharged in 1849, and this is the first occasion on which he makes his claim. The Act of 1858 —the Auckland Waste Lands Act—provides that every man should make his application within twelve months of his discharge, or, if he had obtained bis discharge, within three months of the passing of the Act. 172. That is thirty-six years ago. There is no proof?—He never had made any application— so he states in his petition, 173. Mr. Fulton.] Was every case of possible ignorance dealt with fully by the Commission ?— I think so; and I think I can state (and you will corroborate me) that I took a special interest with regard to the claims of these old soldiers, and on account of that my colleagues on the Commission thought I was rather soft-hearted and liberal in dealing with the cases with some of the men whom we did recommend for land. 174. Did the Commission, besides taking evidence submitted by the applicants, take the trouble to examine records and make inquiries otherwise ?—The Commission examined every record they could get hold of in the Defence Office and the Volunteer Offices. Triey spared no pains. Men were summoned wherever there was any doubt, and wherever it did not appear on the face of the application that the claim was utterly invalid, either from the date of discharge or circumstances of that kind, the men were summoned by the secretary to come and give their evidence before the Commission. 175. Were not claims actually made out for applicants in many cases?—Yes. 176. The Chairman.] The case of Maria Doble. That is a case in which the Committee did not offer any objection to the petition being referred back from the House, because it was said that further evidence was obtainable. No further evidence has been obtainable so far, and no attempt appears to have been made to bring further evidence. I understand that the woman lives in Auckland, and that you can obtain definite information ? —I mentioned with regard to her application triat I would be quite willing to see the woman, and endeavour to obtain further information about the case. She did not appear before the Commission—why, Ido not know. On the face of her application there is no satisfactory proof that her husband was really entitled to a grant; and we had a statement made by Captain Daldy, who was in command of the coastguard, that, to the best of his knowledge, none actually had a claim to land. 177. This is in a different category to the others. It has been referred back to us on the ground that further information could be obtained ? —Well, I should be very willing to see the woman, and make the necessary inquiries, and make a report to the Government. It would be too late, lam afraid, to report to the Committee. There was another case on wriich I suggested further information would be obtainable. That is the case of a woman whose husband was in the original New Zealand Fencibles, who came out in 1847. Her name is Kyle. 178. Mr. Macandrew .] Are there many of these applicants in a position to occupy the land to advantage if they got it ?—I could not tell you that. 179. I mean as to their age ?—Well, a man who was discharged from the army in 1849 must be pretty old now. 180. Their object is to turn it into money, I suppose ?—The object is to get money, no doubt, because all the recommendations of the Commission were paid in money —ten shillings an acre. 181. Mr. McMillan.] So that in most of these petitions now coming in the applicants have for their object money instead of land?—Yes. 182. Mr. Macandrew.] In respect to what area ?—lt varied—6o acres for a private soldier, 80 acres for a non-commissioned officer, and more for an officer. 183. The Chairman.] You state here that the Commissioner of Crown Lands at Auckland might be able to give some information in this case which did not come before the Commission ?—Yes ; that is a very peculiar case. Ido not believe there is anything in it myself, but on the face of it I could not say there was not. The woman claims £50 from what I can understand, but it would be a long story, perhaps, to explain all the circumstances. 184. Would you be able to make inquiries about that ?—Yes; I could go to the Commissioner of Crown Lands at Auckland and see whether the claim was registered. As to the claim, if he had any it was by special order of the Provincial Council of Auckland. Some of these men forfeited their land, and the Provincial Council, for political reasons, took trie cases up, and gave them compensation for what they had lost. 185. There are no others upon which you would be able to give definite information as far as the information on them is concerned ?—Triere might be one or two more, but I forget without going through them all again.

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