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65. That is what you pay yourself ?—Yes. 66. What are the terms for grazing of sheep?—There is no agreement between us, except that I am to be paid a profit on my rent. 37. Then, there is no contract or agreement—that is, they do not pay you so much an acre?— No. There is no written arrangement at all. 68. Well, but I suppose you keep some sort of account ?—Yes. 69. In reference to this rent ?—Yes. 70. And is it returned among the company's arrangements for the year ? —Yes. 71. In what you have said—rhow does it appear in the company's accounts for the year?—lt appears as rent paid me for this country for the year. 72. What is the exact amount?—Somewhere under £600. And the arrangement is terminable at a day's notice. 73. Practically, the company pay the rent, and a little over, to you? —They pay me the rent, and a little over —yes. 74. Could you state the exact amount paid you in rent ?— I do not remember the exact amount. 75. What does it cost you for managing the land ?—Well, Ido not manage it. The sheep on it are managed by Messrs. Campbell and Sons. 76. Then, practically it costs you nothing for the management of the land?—l am under obligations as a pastoral tenant to keep down the rabbits, although I do not manage the land at present with my own stock. lam under obligations, the same as all pastoral tenants, in regard to taxation and other matters in regard to that piece of country. 77. And, beyond that amount, what country do you hold?—Some freehold. I hold a considerable amount in a different district. 78. Are you aware, as attorney for Messrs. Clifford, of the acreage of leasehold held by them? —If you will allow me to see the list I can tell vou. [Looking at the list] Mr. Charles Clifford has 66,760 acres, and Mr. Walter Clifford 31,030 acres. 79. Now, are you aware whether the company has any arrangement with the Messrs. Clifford with regard to the agistment of sheep?—l am not aware of any, and I hold a power of attorney for the Messrs. Clifford. Messrs. Campbell and Sons are at present running sheep on the country. 80. You are not aware of any arrangement ?—No. I have instructions from Messrs. Clifford that Campbells' sheep are to be allowed to run there. 81. And you are not to run them off as trespassers?—No. 82. Does it not strike you as being peculiar, Messrs. Campbell and Sons' sheep being allowed to run on another man's country without any arrangement ?—I say Ido not know of any arrangement. It does not strike me as being peculiar at all: it is done every day in all civilized countries. In the neighbourhood of Wellington, here, I suppose you can obtain a paddock for a horse if you pay for it. 83. But generally people know something about these things—what they arc to pay, you know. We have not heard anything about the payments yet. Do you make out the sheep returns for Campbell and Sons ? —No; they are made out by the station manager. I get copies of them. 84. Then you say distinctly that there is no arrangement for agistment of these sheep ? You have not parted with any of your interest in that country?—Not the slightest. 85. Mr. J. McKenzie.] The authority to purchase on behalf of Messrs. Clifford came from London ?—To purchase a run—yes. 86. When you purchased in your own name, was it your intention to settle on the country yourself? —I purchased it because there were no other buyers. 87. What was your intention at the time? —Well, I cannot give evidence as to my intentions. This happened three years ago. lam prepared to give evidence as to facts. 88. You did not purchase the Galloway Eun for the purpose of allowing Messrs. Campbell to run their sheep on it?—No. 89. How much freehold have Messrs. Campbell got by these sales?—Not a great deal, as far as I know. - 90. Messrs. Campbell and Sons have about seventy thousand acres in the neighbourhood ofthese lands ? —Yes. 91. How much freehold at Galloway's?—Not very much. About seven or eight hundred acres. 92. And at Station Peak ?—About thirty thousand acres. 93. At Otakeike ?—About twenty thousand acres. 94. Then the sheep, you state, were grazing partly on leased country and partly on free hold at Station Peak and at Otakeike? —At both places, and on all E. Campbell and Sons' properties. 95. You state that there is not very much land at Galloway's ?—Not very much. 96. Is that eight hundred acres superior to any of the country there ? —lt is the best country there. 97. The sheep returns show 69,000 on the Galloway Station?—Yes. 98. How many of this 69,000 are on the leasehold, seeing that you have not got nine hundred acres of freehold ?—Well, there may bo at times ten thousand on the freehold. During shearingtime there have been mobs of twelve thousand on the freehold. 99. Are you not bound to give a return of the sheep you keep on freehold and leasehold lands? —Well, you can estimate it roughly. 100. Were these 288,254 sheep for 1883, and 289,427 for 1884, given as on pastoral lands ?— That is the whole number of sheep owned by Messrs. Campbell and Sons. It includes the sheep on both leasehold and freehold land. 101. That is the total number on leases, and on the University leases as well — the University lands at Burwood and Benmore ? —Part of the land at Burwood is University land. 102. Mr. Coioan.] Were these payments of rent by Messrs. Clifford made by them to the

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