18

C.—6

James Stephenson Clendon: I am Secretary to the Native Lands Court at Kaihu, in the Kaipara District. I was present during the Lands Court session at end of January and beginning of February, 1876, when Waipoua and Maunganui Blocks were adjudicated. I have heard the evidence of Paora Tuhaere and Mr. Nelson, and have no wish to say anything thereon prior to the adjudication. I was present at the signing of the documents; I interpreted the deeds. The sum for consideration was blank, and the cause thereof explained to the Judge by Mr. Preece before me and to myself also. The cause was, that as the price which Parore would take had not been agreed upon, it was advisable to leave the space blank, so as to fill in the full amounts when ascertained and deed executed by Parore. The object was to make one deed answer for the sale of each block by the co-grantees, otherwise there must have been a separate deed for each interest in each block. When I read the deeds, I read them at the price for which Tiopira sold his claim, £2,000. Some days after I read the deed to Parore. I explained the deeds on each occasion. I expressed the consideration Parore was to receive ;I am not certain that I told him how much Tiopira had received, but may have done. I understood that Mr. Preece advanced £100 on Parore's account to Tiopira, to come out of the Waimata money, which was, to my knowledge, in Auckland. I had seen it paid some months previously, and saw it sent to Auckland through a Mr. Mitchelson, Dargaville's manager. Tiopira was perfectly aware that he received the £2,000 in liquidation of his claim on the two blocks. When Tiopira received his money and signed the deed, he relinquished all claim and title to his interest in the two blocks ; thereafter the Government and Parore would remain joint owners. lam stated by Mr. Nelson to have been present on the 4th, when Mr. Preece, in reply to Tiopira, said that Parore had consented to accept this money, and Mr. Kemp was said to have added, "We have just come from Parore's house ; he has consented." I heard no such conversation. I knew that no arrangement had been made at this time as to price with Parore, and should have noticed such remark. I was close by and think I must have heard any such remark. I remember Paul asking for the increasing the price to £2,000, and that conversation, which lasted from twenty minutes to half an hour, till Captain Symonds arrived. Mr. Nelson was at the opposite side of the hall sitting under a window on a form; I was beside the table where the talk was going on the whole time. I heard Mr. Preece asked by Tiopira why it was necessary to sign the vouchers in addition to the deeds; Mr. Preece told him it was necessary to have the vouchers to send to the Treasury. I understood that the £100 was an advance for Parore on account of Waimata, the other the balance of the purchase money. I had heard the Natives themselves, at a public meeting, speak of and acknowledge the money they had previously received. I did not hear any dissatisfaction expressed by Tiopira's people after the transaction. William Young, interpreter, told me they had been to Colonel Haultain's about a month subsequently. I have only seen Tiopira and Parore once each since this business. I remember Mr. Kemp, after Tiopira had received the money, remarking that he had got the best of the bargain, and Mr. Nelson expressing his concurrence. This was, I think, in the Court-house. Declared to before me—E. C. Barstow, E.M. James S. Clendon. Paora Tuhaere: I never employed Mr. Tole in Tiopira's name. I was not authorized by Tiopira to emply a lawyer. I never told Mr. Tole that I was authorized to employ a lawyer. Tiopira had only asked me to apply to Mr. Kemp. I never authorized Mr. Tole to act for me. Tiopira and myself have never applied for this investigation. When I appeared before Sir George Grey I never spoke, neither did the other Natives ; only Mr. Tole. When Tiopira arrived in Auckland, after four days I took him to Okahu. Tiopira told me Mr. Nelson had been urging him to go to Mr. Tole. Tiopira then said he did not wish at all to have a lawyer; that he and 1 should go to McLean, and apply to him. We saw him. We wrote the letter of sth May in consequence of that interview, at which Mr. Kemp and Mr. Preece were present. Sir Donald McLean asked us to put our statement in writing. Tiopira came down because he had heard that Sir Donald had arrived here. Ido not know that any one wrote to him. Declared to before me—E. C. Barstow, E.M. Paoea Tuhaeee. John Jermyn Symonds: lam a Judge of the Native Lands Court. I remember being at Kaihu, Kaipara, at the end of January and beginning of February last, when the Maunganui and Waipoua Blocks were passed through the Court. It was part of my duty to witness the execution of the deeds. I did witness the execution of these deeds by Tiopira. It was three days, I think, prior to their being signed by Parore, which was on Bth February. The consideration money was not written in when Tiopira signed, for the reason that it was not then known what consideration money it would be necessary to put into the deed, because arrangements had not then been made with Parore, and that the money to be paid to him would have to be added to what had been paid to Tiopira in order to express the true consideration for the blocks. Mr. Preece called my attention to this, stating that he had not as yet arranged with Parore. There was no bother or trouble, and Tiopira seemed quite to understand what he was doing. It was clearly explained to him by the interpreter, Mr. Clendon, in my presence. I understand the Native language well enough to know that. I know that Tiopira sold his right to Maunganui and Waipoua to the Government. Ido not remember tho price, but he was paid in my presence, and he sold for the amount then paid to him, together with a sum previously paid on account. Ngatiwhatua seemed dejected at their claim being rejected, but Tiopira and people seemed well contented when I left, which was after Parore had been paid. When Mr. Preece mentioned that the consideration money had not been written in the deeds because Parore had not been arranged with, that statement was made openly in the Court House, and audible to everybody. There was not the smallest concealment about it. My official attestation to the deeds was not made till after completion of them by Parore's signature. Declared to before me—E. C. Baestow, E.M. John Jeemxn Symonhs.