PARLIAMENT.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 5068, 29 September 1894, Page 7

PARLIAMENT.

_ [IJbr Pbess Association.] Legislative Council, PniDAT, Sbft. 28. AFTEBNOON SITTING. The Counoil met at 2.30 p.m. BANK OP NKW ZEALAND. The Hon E. C. J. Stevens asked the Government, in view of the provisions of the Bank of New Zealand Share Guarantee Aot, imposing on ie the necessity of appointing the President of the Board of Direotors within three months of the issue of guarantee shares, which time is about to expire, and also of the fact thatthe Board of Direotors, whose election was also provided for by that Act, has been elected, when it will inform Parliament of the date ou which the appointment of j President will be made. j The Colonial Secretary said the Government waß as anxious to make the i appointment referred to as was Mr j Stevens. The Government had one gentle- | man in view to act as President, and as j soon as a decision had been arrived at the < Council would be informed of it. ] FOREST RS6ERVSS. j The . Hon W. M'Cullough moved — I "That a return be. laid upon the table of j ali.!4nc(^a-_-_.apart_aa forest reserves- nnder the New Zealand State Forests Act, 1885, during the years 1890, 1891, 1892 and 1593, Bhowing the area and locality in whioh the lands so set apart are situate." Agreed to. SCHOOL ATTENDANCE. • .-- The School Attendance Bill passed its final stages. bating bill. The Bating Bill was committed and passed without material alteration. "\ BATING ON UNIMPROVED VALUE. The adjourned debate ou the seoond reading of the Bating on Unimproved Value Bill, to which an amendment that the second reading be taken this day six -months had been moved and lost, was resumed. The Hon E. C. J. Stevens pointed out that there was a difference in rating for Jocal and for general purposes. Ho beieved that the Bill would, if passed, prove intolerable to persons who desired to improve their property. ; . The Hon _■*•'. Kelly strongly supported the Bill, which he regarded as legislation ih' the right direction. The Hon W. M. Bolt attacked the assertion of Mr Pharazyn, that the poor would suffer under the provisions of the Bill; He considered any man who kept his property merely for speculative purposes should be taxed to its highest oapaoity. Sir G. S. Whitmore supported the Bill, whioh he regarded as an equitable measure. . The cry raised against the Bill was the worn out oue of a property tax. He considered it monstrous that parsons who bought lands in town for purely speculative purposes should not be taxed on fie unimproved value. He thought the ill a very fair one. The Hon W. Swanson believed that when the Government sold laud in future it should do so on condition that it should be built upon or occupied at once. It was different in past days. The Government in the old timea sold the land without conditions, because it was extremely anxious to get money for Treasury purposes, and no questions were asked. The Hon H. Williams opposed the Bill en the ground that the taxation would prove disastrous to the settlers, at any rate in the Auckland province. Tho Hon E. Olhee opposed tho Bill because he believed it would press heavily upon local taxpayers. The building upon land in towns was purely a matter of supply and demand. The Hon W. H. Eeynolds in a brief speech opposed the Bill. The Hon J. Kerr said he should support _ the measure the more 'readily as its provisions were not compulsory. He ridiculed the idea that the Bill was drafted against the interests of the poor man. The vacant sections in oitieß like Wellington were not held by poor working men, but by Syndicates or capitalists, who only awaited a good market. If the Bill were passed, these vacant sections, Whioh would grow more valuable every aay^must go under the hammer of the auctioneer, and the rates of the cities or towns would thereby become enhanced, and the vacant lots, which were now eyesores to residents snd visitors, would be soon built upon, and the burden of looal taxation would be lightened co far as the poor ratepayer was concerned. The debate was further adjourned till Monday. . The Council adjourned till Monday at 2.30 p.m. House of Representatives. Friday, Sept. 28. AFTEBNOON SITTING. The House met at 2.30 p.m. questions. Eeplying to Mr G. J. Smith, The Hon B. J. Seddon s9id the Government had not yet, owing to pressure of busineßß, considered the report of the Tariff Committee. He hoped to be in a position to Btate the intentions of the Government later on. Replying to Mr E. M. Smith, The Hon J. M'Kenzie said he regarded the Dairy Bill as of great importance, and hoped to have it before the" House next week. Eeplying to Mr O'Regan, The Hon B. J. Seddon said the matter of appointing a Minister of Railways was nnder consideration, and he should inform the House later oh as to the intentions of the Government. Replying to Mr Mitchelson, The Hon B. J. Seddon said as soon as the Government waa aware of what funds wece available for works, it would be in a position to say when the Public Works Statement would be brought down. Eeplying tp Mr Buddo, The Hon J. M'Kenzie said the question of making Domain and Cenieterydßoards elective might well be considered w__m the local government proposals camefpefore the House. Rsplying to Mr Collins, . . The Hon W. P. Jeeves said the Government had no information on the subject of whether members of the House of Eepresentatives, also members of Education Boards, are in the habit of charging their railway fare as au item of expenses while travelling free under the Parliamentary pass. Eeplying to Mr Mackenzie (Clutha), The Hon B. J. Seddon said the Government had not yet considered the report of the Tariff Committee, bub unless some very good cause wore shown the" Government would not be justified in incurring the expense of despatching a delegate to England to promote and flcafc companies. Replying to Captain Bussell (Hawke's Bay), The Hon B. J. Seddon said he bobed to be in a position to-day to state to the House the name of tbe President and the Auditor of the Bank of New Zealand. The Government was attending to this matter, and he hoped to be able to state that both'appointments would be filled during next week. PRIVILEGE. The Hon E. J. Seddon announced that the Clerk of the House had received a summons calling upon him. to produce, at the Supreme Conr. at Wanganui, certain petitions presented to the House from War en a Hunia and Major Kemp regarding the Horowbenua block, together with the evidenca taken before the Native Affairs Committee. Parliament had always jealously guarded Its privileges, he said, on such a matter, and the question involved was whether the Parliament or the Supreme Court was tho supreme tribunal. - He therefore moved that the Houae refuse leave to the Clerk to attend the Court and produce papers. He added that it would be most inconvenientfor the Clerk to be absent during the session. Mr "-Bell said the question nf the inconvenience caused by the Clerk's absence during the session would be settled by postponement of the trial. Thore was, however, a mOre involved question concerned. It would nover do" for a document of the House to be overhauled iv a cOtut of law. But, on the other hand, the

1 House would not refuse tho production of papers which were material, simply because those papers had come into the possession of the House. He moved aB an amendment — " That the House grant leave to the Clerk to attend." Sir B. Stout said if this case were lost through the non-production of the papers, there would be endless trouble. He suggested that a Committee of Privileges : should be sat up to determine whether the i papers should be given. After further discussion, Mr Seddon's ' motion was carried by 44 to 12. christchurch railway union. Eeplying to Mr J. W. Kelly, j The Hou B. J. Seddon said he Bhould j look through the Hansard report of the ] charges made by Sir Bobert Stout against j the Railway Union at Christchurch, aud inform the honorable gentleman of the decision of the Government on Tuesday. taranaki iron sand. Mr E. "M. Smith moved the adjournment of the Housa to enable him to refer { to the question put by Mr Mackenzie j (Clutha) respecting sending a delegate to i England in connection with the Taranaki j ironsand. Thiß application was made in | response to a request of several people iin his diatrict. Ail they asked the j Government to .do - was to -subscribe 'pound for pound in order that the people of Taranaki could have an opportunity of developing that industry. A lengthy discussion ensued, which was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. CONSOLS BILL. The New Zealand Consols Bill was reported from committee. On the motion for the third reading, Sir B. Stout entered hiß protest. He said the Bill was . not at all needed, as there was ample investment at present for small people in the Savings Banks, whilst larger people conld take advantage of the ordinary banking system. This Bill would injure banks by preventing them from giving the manufacturers the accommodation they should receive. It was a borrowing Bill, and should never have been introduced. Dr Newman also protested against the pat sing of the Bill. Mr, Buddo thought it entirely adverse to the interest of trade to raise a million of money in the colony. Mr Button believed that the Bill was calculated to produce very mischievous consequences. Captain Russell again protested against what h9 believed to be a most improper and injudicious Bill ; it was a measure to sanction borrowing in the most expensive manner. Mr Eabnbhaw also strongly opposed the Bill. j Mr Crowther felt more afraid of tho Bill now than he had on its introduction. If he could only believe that the Bill would benefit the country he should support it ; but aa he had not at present made up hiß mind that it would do so, he should vote against it. The Hon J. G. Ward said both Sir B. Stout and Mr Buchanan repeatedly asserted that this money was to bear interest at 4 per cent, but they conveniently forgot that it was not to exceed 4 per cent. As a matter of fact it was proposed to place the issue of these consols at 3 J per cent, and it would therefore be seen whether this was a safe form of investment. Consols could uot possibly be issued at below par, and that was the reason why he did not accept an amendment to that effect. He wished to point out also that if anyone deposited .£SO tbey would receive that amount of consols. As to the argument against the term of forty years, circumstances might arise when iv would be desirable to have forty years, but no Treasurer would wish a longer term than waa necessary for the success of the scheme. Beferring to Captain Russell's speeoh, in which he had regarded tbe proposal as borrowing in an expensive manner, and as a sham, he (Mr Ward) asserted that it was placing at the disposal of the people a better system of investment than existed at present. He should like , to know what term could be applied to a gentleman who had formerly advocated borrowing twenty millions of money on private mortgages. As to Mr Earnshaw's complaint that the Government supporters had not debated the Bill, he pointed- out that the Bill- was fully debated on the second reading, and it was not usual to speak fully on the third reading of a Bill. He desired to say that, in hiß opinion, the system of consols was a good one, and time only would prove whether or not it would be successful. He thought it would be a success, and that was the reason why the Government was anxious to give the people another form of investment. Tbe motion for the third reading waß carried by 31 to 22. NATIVE LAND COURT. On the motion for committal of the Native Land Court Bill, The Hou E. J. Seddon said it was with some diffidence he had accepted the portfolio of Native Minister. It bad been the desire of the Government to establish friendly relations between the races, and he waß glad to say now that those relations were of a most cordial character. In order to BS<3B-tain tbe state of the Native mind, ie was necssßsry for the Native Miuistsr to meet the Natives face to face. That being his opinion, he had determined to visit the Native districts during the last recess bo as to ascertain their wants. As a result he found that the chief alteration required was with respect to the management of their lands. Another source of complaint wbb the procrastination and expense that occurred in passing land through the court. After referring at ; some length to the Native land question, he said the East Coast Natives were in favour of the committee system of dealing with their land, and there was plenty of land in that district ready for offer to the Government. Referring to his visit tothe Uriwera country, he said he found a great desire there for schools, and he thought if schools were established in that locality it would put an end to the Uriwera difficulty. The present Bill dealt with the Native Land Court, and also with the administration of land after it had passed through the Court." "By the Bill, applications for rehearing had" been abolished, and also applications to the Supreme Court. It simply provided for a Native Land Court and a Court of Appeal, whose decisions would be final. The Bill farther provided a better system of ascertaining the owners of land in trust. He thought the policy of the Bill was the only safe one to pursue, and the Legislature should say that the only channel through whioh the Natives should dispose of their land was the Government, so as to stop all dealings with private individuals. He might be told that it was too late in the session to bring in a Bill of this maguitude, but as the Bill had run the gauntlet of the Native Affairs Committee, he thought they might proceed with it, ao as to settle thiß vexed question. Captain Bussell congratulated Mr Seddon on tho speeoh he had made. Tt was logical, nnd showed that the Premier had a thorough grasp of the subject. As to the first part of the Bill, he thought it would go through without opposition, as ii; wbb a great improvement on any other Bill they had yet had. He should take objection, however, to other parts, and he opposed resumption by the Crown of the pre-emptive right, which was a direct violation of the Treaty of Waitangi. The Hon J. Carroll complimented Captain Bussell on his criticism and hia temperate language. It must be admitted that the existing Native land lawa were not satisfactory, and it was the intention of the Government to do what it thought was right in this respect. There must be sonde defects in Native land legislation, and it was only by experience they would find out those defects; but the Government should have credit for its attempts to improve tho present state of affairs. Mr Hone Heke quoted from previous speechos mnde by Mr Carroll to the , Natives, in which he had expressed him. * self Btrongly against pre-emptive right, > and thought it very unfair that he should , now speak in an opposite direction. The i Native people were against the resumption

of tho pre-emptive right. All they wanted was nece.sii-y safeguards to prevent sharp praotice. Sir B. Stout quite approved of the Premier making himself acquainted with the views of the Natives, but all previous Native Ministers visited the Native settlements iv the same way. Their laud whs the only possession of the Maoris, and they should therefore make some allowance fcr them, and not treat them like a race accustomed to individualism. He approved of the Bill generally, and thought it would effect great benefit to the Natives. He felt very Btrongly about part 2 of the Bill, and believed that the Committee system should be tried aa an experiment. He would stop all private dealings in Native land, but the Natives should be told that they must sell it through the Land Boards. Mr Mitchelson moved the adjournment of the debate. Agreed to. The House rose at 12.48 a.m.