INVESTIGATION URGED

Timaru Herald, Volume CXXXVII, Issue 19673, 15 December 1933, Page 8

INVESTIGATION URGED

AFFAIRS OF NATIVE DEPARTMENT HOUSE DEBATES AUDIT SCANDALS (Abridged P.A. Report.) WELLINGTON, December 14. In the House of Representatives today Mr J. A. Nash presented the report of the Public Accounts Committee in reference to the charges made in the Controller and Auditor-General’s report. The committee said that the report had created an erroneous impression in dealing with more or less minor matters and had mistakenly created a feeling in the minds of those not well versed in public finance that the financial administration was at fault. The committee was of the opinion that the public accounts represented the true and correct position of the financial administration of the Dominion, and it felt that efforts should oe made by the departments concerned to reach agreement as to the accountancy practice to be adopted. Settlement Administration. In reference to native land settlement administration, the committee reported as follows: (1) In view of the great expansion of its activities, especially in execution of the policy of developing native land, the administrative machinery of the Native Department has not been sufficient to keep pace therewith or to establish efficient control over details of expenditure. (2) That if the matters specifically indicated in the report of the AuditorGeneral as arising in the Rotorua and East Coast districts are the only issues for investigation, the committee is satisfied with the view of the Controller and Auditor-General that the necessary investigations can be most efficiently carried out by his officers. But in view of the great importance to the Maori race and to the Dominion of the maintenance of the policy of assisting Maoris to develop and farm their lands, and the danger that may arise at this juncture from a misunderstanding of the difficulties under which they labour or of their methods and customs in relation to the organisation of their labour and activities, and- in view also of the disquiet in the minds of the taxpayers of the country, the committee is of the opinion that the scope of any inquiry should be much wider than these specific issues and therefor, recommends that a commission be appointed to investigate not only the matters arising out of the report of the Auditor-General but also the whole of the administration of native affairs, especially in regard to the development of native land and the administration of the estates of Maori people.

(3) The committee hopes that the steps already taken and in the process of execution by the Government will establish this department of State on a satisfactory and efficient basis. These steps are: (a) The establishment of a native lands development board; (b) the amalgamation of control of the Native Department and the Native Trustee and the appointment of new departmental head to reorganise the whole of the joint activities; (c) the decision to rescind various statutory powers in the hands of the Native Minister which are now transferred to the Development Board. A Wrong Impression. Mr Nash said it had been impossible to have the evidence ready for presentation to the House to-day, and he asked permission to table it to-morrow. He said the committee had agreed that a wrong impression had gone abroad in regard to the public recounts. The committee’s investigation had show'll that the difference between the Auditor-General and the Treasury was purely a matter of accountancy methods in presenting the accounts, and he was certain that it w'ould be adjusted as between these two departments. The committee was fully alive to the importance of the AuditorGeneral’s office. In regard to the question of native land settlement, the committee had had befoie it a number of witnesses who had given evidence in detail, and there had been no suggestion of hurrying them in any way. The Minister of Native Affairs himself had given evidence for no less than three hours.

Mr Nash said that in his opinion it was evident that the position could be summed up by stating that the Department had been understaffed and there had not been sufficient accommodation. That had been proved. All these development schemes, numbering 42 had come into operation very quickly, and the result had been that some discrepancies had arisen. The Minister himself had had a very ardutask to perform ana had undertaken a great deal of work that should perhaps have been done by others. Investigations were still being made by the Audit Department, and one case was before the courts. It had not been possible for the committee to go fully into the question of the purchase of stock, seeds, manure and so forth, but that would no doubt be done by another tribunal. Unemployment Subsidies. The question of unemployment subsidies had loomed very largely, and this had also been discussed by the committee and evidence had been taken. From May, 1931, to May, 1932, £BOOO had been granted by the Unemployment Board. In May, 1932, £24.000 had been granted, and up to March 31 next, provision had been made for a total of £79.000. There were 71,000 Maoris in New Zealand, and of these he thought 08,000 were in the North Island. 51,000 being in Auckland province. There were 15.800 Maori males between the ages of 20 and 64, and in June 1931 there were 3650 contributors to the unemployment fund. By June. 1932. there were 7240, and in June last the number had increased to 11,000. In September last there were 3000 natives on the Unemployment Boards scheme involving an expenditure of £166.000 a year. He wanted to point out that Maoris working under the native development scheme, particularly where the subsidy was being paid, were not receiving the same rote of pay as pakehas. Mr P. Fraser (Lab.. Wellington Central): What has that to do with the alleged defalcations? Mr Nash said that the committee's attention had been drawn very forcibly to the psychology of the Maori race and tribal differences, and it was evident they were a very difficult race to handle. The country had a duty to the Maori and the Government was called upon to do all it possibly could and particularly to be sympathetic and helpful. Mr M J. Savage. Leader of the Opposition, said the House was exhaving copies of it or copies of the slon should be held over until members could peruse the report and eviMr Forbes intimated that copies of the report could be made available by

to-night, and Mr Nash said a substantial portion of the evidence would be ready for presentation by then. The debate was then adjourned until 7.30. When the House resumed Mr J. A. Nash intimated that the whole of the evidence placed before the public accounts committee was now available, and he laid it on the table. Urgency was accorded the adoption of the formal motion presenting the i committee’s report. Muddlement at the Bottom. Mr E. J. Howard (Lab., Christchurch South' said that the main question before the committee had been the Auditor-General's comments on the Native Affairs Department accounts. The evidence had shown that one individual who had had the job of obtaining signatures on vouchers had got the natives to sign them without the amounts first being inserted. It had also been shown that money from the Unemployment Fund had been used for the purchase of seed to be placed on land occupied by persons who were not unemployed, and that money had been spent on ploughing carried out by persons who were not employed. It w r ould probably be found when the Commission had completed its duties that muddlement had been the foundation of the trouble. When there was muddle opportunity arose for those who had sticky fingers, and thieving had been going on. Mr D. G. Sullivan (Lab., Avon) commented on the order in w'hich sections of the committee’s report had been presented to the House, and expressed the opinion that it might create a wrong impression: “If there w'as one thing that predominated it was the determination on the part of the majority of the members of the committee that there should be no reflection on the Auditor-General and no whittling down of his report.” he said. Mr Sullivan contended that the reference to native land settlement should have been placed first and should not have followed the paragraph referring to accountancy methods. The committee’s proceedings should have been open to the Press and he had made a suggestion to that effect. Mr Fraser: Did the Minister of Finance oppose it? Mr Coates: No. Mr Sullivan: Yes. Mr Coates: I pointed out that a resolution of the House would be necessary. Mr Sullivan: The Minister did not give any indication that he was anxious for the Press to be present. Mr Coates: That is unfair. Mr W. J. Broadfoot (C. Waitomo): It is unfair ancl incorrect. Mr Sullivan said that 24 points had been submitted to the Committee and of these 22 had merely concerned professional differences as to the correct accountancy practices to follow’. The other tw'o points had referred to pensions and native land settlement. Tribute to Minister. Mr W. J. Broadfoot said that as one w’ho had lived all his life in native territory, he could pay tribute to the success of the Native Minister in his land development schemes which had been the first genuine, practical attempt to solve the outstanding problems and differences between Maori and Pakeha. The Auditor-General had not given any definite information before the Committee as to the question of alleged deficiencies or wrong doings in the Native Department. He agreed that there had been muddlement and Inefficiency, but a modicum of this should have been expected. When all the facts were know'll and the costs and losses w’ere analysed, the House would have no misgivings so far as native land development schemes were concerned. An indefinite charge had been made concerning grass seed. Last year 30.000 acres had been sown and the Committee had found that the charge boiled down to the disposition of one sack of clover containing 2001 b at 1/per lb. Commission Approved. Mr Forbes said that he thought the recommendation to set up a Commission was a good one. It w’ould constitute a stocktaking that would enable the Government to push on the work with, in his opinion, very great advantage to the Maori people. He for one would not like to see anything that would discourage the carrying out of that policy. Mr Savage said that if a Commission was set up the House would be justified in assuming that it would be a Royal Commission, and that its report w'ould be presented to Parliament instead of being lost in some blind alley. He suggested that a Supreme Court Judge should preside. Mr Forbes: The Auditor-General is going into all the affairs of the Department. Mr Savage: I think it would be a good thing to have a Royal Commission that will have something to say Vout the Auditor-General’s report. The Hon. Sir Apirana Ngafca thanked the House for the tone of the night’s debate. He emphasised the importance of understanding in racial matters, and said that there had been an improvement in the tone of the discussion as compared with a few days ago. If there had not been that improvement some queer things might have hapj pened in New Zealand. (Left Sitting.) .