An Exciting Incident.

Patea Mail, Volume VIII, Issue 120, 7 October 1895, Page 4

An Exciting Incident.

THE SPEAKER AND THE LEADER

OF THE OPPOSITION.

(N.Z. Times.)

An incident of- a somewhat exciting nature disturbed the progress of business in the House of Representatives yesterday (Friday) afternoon. It arose out of a statement made by the Minister of Lauds the previous evening to the effect that if members of the Opposition would persist in attributing the position of the Bank of New' Zealand to the legislation of the present Government he would have to state the true position, and refer to certain overdrafts and how they came to be wined out.

Capt. Bussell, referring to this statement. gave notice of asking the Minister, “ When he stated on the debate on the second reading of the Land for Settlements Act, 1894, Amendment Act, 1895, that if the. members, of the Opposition continued (in course of legitimate debate) to express their belief that the passing of the Laud for (Settlement Act had in- ' juricnsly affected the position of the Bank of New Zealand he would let the people of New Zealand know of those who had had overdrafts in the Bank of New Zealand in the past and how they came to he wiped out, did he refer to any member of the Opposition Party in the House of Representatives, and if so, will ho state their names or withdraw his insinuations ? And as his statement implies that the secrecy of the Ba ik has been violated, have Ministers any moans or power direct or indirect of obtaining from the directors, president, auditor, or other officers of the Bank of New Zealand hints or information as to the private accounts of customers of that Bank, whether members of the Opposition or not ? Did be obtain such information as justified him in implying a charge of impropriety, dishonesty or corruption against or undue advantage granted to the members of the Opnosition from any director or officer of the Bank of New Zealand ? If not, does bo consider it consonant with the responsibility of his position as a Minister of the Crown to endeavour to intimidate political opponents by implying be can disclose conduct of impropriety, dishonesty or corruption on the mere gossip of irresponsible persons.” Capt. Russell had hardly finished reading the question when the Minister. of Lands rose and raised a question of privilege. He asked Sir M. O’Rorke to rule whether Capt. Russell was in order in putting such a question on the Order Paper. He wanted the House to learn that he (Mr McK.) had rights as •well as other hon. members—(hear, hear) —and. when members of the Opposition charged him that it was his land policy that had caused the trouble in the Bank of New Zealand surely he had the right to say that the Bank of New Zealand got into trouble a long time before the present Government came into office. Mr Allen : But you went a good deal further than that. The Speaker said there was no question of privilege in the matter. The Bill was still under consideration of the House, and could not be referred to in the manner proposed by the question, and such a question could not be placed on the Order Paper. Clearly the proper time to have referred to the matter was when the debate took place the previous evening. Capt. Russell: But, sir The Speaker, continuing: That is what I maintain. Capt. Russell: Will you allow me to submit a point of privilege . The Speaker : There is no point of privilege involved. Cnpt. Russell, warmly: I maintain that the honour of the members of the Opposition and myself baa been seriously impugned, and it is not right that we should be compelled to remain under such a charge. The Speaker: Notice should have been taken at the time——Capt. Russell (interrupting) repeated that an imputation of dishonourable conduct rested upon himself and others on his side of the House. The Speaker: I have ruled that objection should have been taken at the proper time. Cftpt. Russell: Unfortunately, I was not present. The Speaker, severely; The hon gentleman must resume his seat (this on account of Captain Russell having remained standing.) Sir Robert Stout; Might I ask if it is not in order to move for a committee to consider the question of privilege ? The Speaker; I think not. Captain Russel, who had continued on bis feet, sari he wished to quote authorities to show that a breach of privilege had occurred. Thoro was a distinct attempt i to intimidate the Opposition last night; and be had looked up the question and found that one of the questions of priviledge The Speaker, with severity: Will the hon member resume his seat ? I cannot allow the business to bo interrupted by this altercation. Capt, Russell (still standing): I protest against this conduct. (Cries of “ Chair ” and “ Order.”) The Speaker, very expressively, said that if the hon member would not sit down when ordered so to do, the only course that devolved upon him—the only thing that remained was to name the hon member as disregarding the authority of the chair. This course ho would bo very sorry indeed to have to adopt Capt. Russell: I desire The Speaker, disregarding the interrupt tion ; If the hon member persists in standing when 1 have ordered him to sit down Capt. Russell; I wish to bo heard The Speaker. You will not sit down? Capt, Russell, after a brief pause; I will sit down, but rise again. The Speaker; If the hon member says he will disregard the authority of the House, it only remains for me to name him. jj This is a course that I have never yet had to adopt—an action which I hope never to have to take as long as I sit in this chair. Capt. Russell; Will you not hear mo on what I believe to ho a question of privilege ? The Speaker, sharply f 1 have ruled that there is no point of breach of privilege, inasmuch that no cue made the slightest objection or drew attention to the matter at the time, Privilege Mr Allan, interrupting ; It was drawn attention to. The Speaker, severely ; The hon gentleman will please not interrupt me. Continuing, the Speaker said the rule in re gard to privilege was that attention must drawn at the tiipo the breach occur-

I red. Captain Russell, as matter of fact, I was not present at the time the statement was made last evening. Captain Russell, warmly : Will you hear me about my own position ? I admit that I was not in my place in the House at the lime, and therefore had no opportunity of refuting the imputation of improper conduct made by the Minister (Cries of “ Order.”) The Speaker : I have ruled that at this stage the question is out of order - Captain Russell; But you will not allow me to refer to a past debate. Sir Robert Stout; You can do so on the third reading of the Bill. The Speaker agreed that this was so. He disclaimed any desire of preventing Capt. Russell from further discussing the matter. The subject then dropped, Capt. Russell saying he would bring the matter up later on. At a later stage, Capt. Russell gave notice of moving: “That, in view of statements made by the Minister of Lands, the transactions of the Bank of New Zealand have apparently been disclosed to a Minister of the Crown; and this House is of opinion that, in the interest alike of the Colony and the Bank, the Bank should at once cease to he under any political control, and that a Bill be immediately introduced to give effect to the foregoing resolution.” The Colonial Treasurer, during the debate on the Advances to Settlers Act later on in the evening, stated that to his knowledge no member of the Ministry knew anything whatever of the accounts in the Bank of New Zealand, Mr G. Hutchison also came into conflict with the Speaker last evening. He was discussing the Advances to Settlers Bill, when in the opinion of the Colonial Treasurer he introduced irrelevant matter. Mr Ward rose to a point of order. The Speaker upheld the point of order, and said that Mr Hutchison was referring to matter that had nothing to do with the Bill. Mr Hutchison, who had risen and unsuccessfully attempted to speak to the point of order before the Speaker gave his ruling, then wished to explain that he was drawing an illustration when interrupted by Mr Ward. The speaker held to his ruling, and declined to hear any more about it. Mr Hutchison persisted, however, and the Speaker therefore said he would not • as chairman be contradicted. Mr Hutchison : May I not explain. The Speaker : If the hon gentleman will not proceed with his speech I will, call upon the next speaker. Mr Hutchison; I decline to proceed with my speech, Mr Hutchison then resumed his seat.