N.Z. PARLIAMENT.

Otago Witness, Issue 2690, 4 October 1905, Page 15

N.Z. PARLIAMENT.

FRIDAY. SEPTEMBER 22. In the Legislative Coancil on Friday the Stamp Duty Act Amendment Bill was put through all stages. The Kaiapoi Native -_ Reserves Bill was passed. j In the House of Representatives on Friday it was decided to kold sittings on Mon- ; day evenings for the remainder of the session, which the Premier hopes will close on^ the 20th- of October. The report of the Police Commission having been laid on the table, consideration of the Estimates was proceeded with. The House was still sitting when the Telegraph Office closed. i THE ESTIMATES. i Colonial Secretary's Department, total -vote, £74,231.— At the vote of £800 Tor Ministers' secretaries, Mr MASSEY moved j a reduction of £10, as an indication that the House should be furnished with full particulars as to how many secretaries each Sfinister employs, and what are their .names. — Sir J. G. WARD oßjected to one particular- portion of the civil service being singled out for distinction in this way. — After considerable discussion Mr Massey's motion was lest by 39 votes to 25. At the vote for the Electoral Department, Sir J. G. WARD, stated that in future it was proposed to have all the rolls printed at the Government Printing Office. — Mr ! JENNINGS protested against this pro- j posalj and declared that in the four centres there were printing establishments quite as well fitted as the Government office for carrying out the work. At the vote, "Audit Office, £6525," Mr MASSEY moved a reduction by £1, as a protest against the revenue of the Customs, Railways, and Lands Departments noi being audited by the' Audit Department. — Sir. J. G. WARD urged that the present system of audit was quite sufficient, and pointed out that for many years there had ■been no loss or embezzlement in the railway service. The auditing of the Customs revenue would require an enormous staff for an independent audit,' while th^results would- not be ,any batter than at present. — Mr Massey' s motion was lost by 34- to 24-. At the vote of High Commissioner's Department. £3460, Mr T. MACKENZIE urged, that the colony had a right to, expect from this department, something more than a few " liigS-falutfn' " reports. — Sir J. G. •WARD , agreed that the High Commissioner's office ougint to be more in the heart of the City, and he intimated that that .would be done when the^px'esent lease oxpiredl" - 'At the vote for the Museum and Meteorological* Departments, .£3326, Mr DUTHIE ~ complained that there was no "room to exhibit the specimens purchased, and .asked if there *vas any intention of increasing the accommodation at the Wei- , lington Museum.— Sir J. G. WARD said 1 the matter had been receiving the attention of the Government for some time past. The museunr-was to be- extended, so as to allow the proper exhibition of the specimens.—The total voto passed 1 unaltered. Public Health Department, £26,729.— ' Agreed to unaltered. . : Industries and Commerce and Tourist and Health Resorts Departments, £53,940.—Regarding the Vancouver service, Sir J. G. , WARD said there were prospects of establishing a service,, but nothing definite was yet known. It was not intended' to continue the subsidy* for the South African service after the October steamer had sailed- He had received several requests that the Government shoufcL continue the service,, but be was not prepared to agree to pay £30,000 a year on the trade done last year.— Mr BUCHANAN pointed out that the colony had been paying £3 10s a ton on the cargo taken to South Africa from the colony.— Sir J. G. WARD stated tihat Mr Gow,. Trade Commissioner for New Zealand in South Africa had been ordered to- report himself in New Zealand. —Mr MASSEY said' he was as anxious as any man to find fresh markets for our products, but he did not believe the colony had received a copper--, by way of benefit , from the outlay of £90,000 on the Federal steam service.— Sir J. G. WARD explained that the service to the West of England ports ' would run on by the contract for 18 months after the withdrawal of the South African subsidy. He predicted that -when the Soutii African service ceased j there would be an agitation for a bourn 1 African service of refrigerating steamers. —During the discussion on the vote for tourists resorte, Sir J. G. WARD said exc&edinaly good work had been done by I the department at Rotorua, and all references made by Ministers were of an exceedingly complimentary nature.— Mr ELL moved to reduce the vote for the Rotoruaeanatorium and baths by fll, as an indication that a system of local government should be introduced, at Rotorua.— Lost by Mr KTRK3BIDE complained of gross exaggeration inilulspcUin by the Government when advertising the colony.-- bur J- j G WARD defended these advertisements.. ! and .glared Now Zealand was practically a poradiso for th« working man.— The total vote ua&sed unaltered. Post and Telegraph miscellaneous servitfes. £55,550.— Agreed to. . « 9fi , in Public buildings and domains. 2b 'f l[i -~ Mr MASSEY moved a reduction of iIU as an indication that certain charges for maintenance should have been charged to revenue instead a! capital.-Lost by 24 to 14. The total vote, was agreed to un6I*PREACHING VERSUS PRACTICE. 4. very typical illustration of what constitutional government means in New Zealand j was afforded this afternoon during the chsTussion of the Estimates. On the vote for - the salaries of 13 private secretaries 0 Ministers Mr Massey asked how many of £c were allotted to each Minister Nothing could exceed the indignaton of the Cabinet, which regarded the question as an impudent attempt to pry' into matters with which the public had no concern Upon this Mr Massey moved to reduce the item as a n indication of the e « h *Vi ,^^l' and was promptly squelched by 39 to <so. The most "significant circumstance was tie attitude of two allegedly "new' Liberals, Messrs Hogg and Laureuson, who volubly supported Mr Massey's demand For the information as long as it was merely a matter of discussion, but when Mr Massey called for a division they meekly followed Ministers into the lobby and helped to swell the vote which justified the ministerial attitude. CONCERNING PRIVATE SECRETARIES. Tee work devolving uuon. the Leader of

the Opposition was referred to by Sir William Russell during tho discussion which J 1 ai'Gse this afternoon in connection with the ' salaries of Ministers' private secretaries. He ! said that the Leader of the Opposition had j about twice as much work to do as an ordinary Minister, and yet Mr Mac-soy had only one secretary, whose salary did not • come out of tho ptiblic fund. Previous to j the present session he had done without any ' secretarial assistance whatever. , WHERE IS " THAT GRAMAPHONE?' ! The curios In the Colonial Museum at Wellington formed the subject of some jocular remarks to-night. Mr Harding asked whether the State gramaphone winch figured in the expenses list of the Mapourika trip to the islands was preserved in the museum. "It is filled np with eocoanut?." , interjected a ministerial member. Sir i Joseph Wai'd said he did not know what had ! become of the instrument, but he promised to make inquiries concerning its whereabouts j JOTTINGS. Mr E. G. Allen is to ask the Minister for Railways whether he will reduce the railage on colonial canned fruit, with the view of encouraging tho fruit-canning industry of Central Otago, and in other parts of the colony as well. Mr Millar wants the Minister for Railways to reduce the amount of £500 now charged I annually to the Dunedin City' Council for the right to use its own roads. ANIMALS PROTECTION BILL— SOME ; SUGGESTED AMENDMENTS. j The Animals Protection Bill was reported upon by the Acclimatisation Laws Committee to-day. The committee recommends enforcing a penalty not exceeding £SLO for the us& of any metal-pa toll ed or metal-cased bullets in the killing of game, providing that it shall not apply to the use of the expansive or mushroom bullet. The committee has struck out the clause prohibiting the taking or killing of Native game without a license. It is recommended that the maximum penalty for killing hen pheasants, or selling dead her pheasants, as well as that for destroying eggs, be increased from £5 to £10. It is also recommended that the penalty for introducing to the colony any fox, venomous reptile, etc., be increased from £100 to £200. Hares are struck out of the game schedule, and opossums out of tho list of animals to be protected. CurJews and kaka are struck out of the definition of Native game, and the godwit added to the same schedule. The tuatara lizard is added to the list of protected animals. The schedule of birds to be protected is enlarged by the Committee to include the kaka, Native thrueb, fantail, wren, tomtit, .robin, fernbird, cuokoo, Paradise duck, "biu© he):on, kingfisher, oyster catcher, redbill, handnail, and swanprail. The minimum age of holders of licenses is rediioed from 16 to 14- years. It is also recommended that no game shall bo shot on national parks. ! JOTTINGS. 1 The Railways Committee, reporting on the petition of W. F. Hickenbotham, says it is of opinion that no reflection as to the personal conduct of petitioner was made by the department ; that though a cbmpei tenp foreman, his work by comparison with . that oLofchers was not satisfactory, and that there was no obligation under Hickenbotham 'a agreement with the department for his services to be- continued on its expiry. 1 The Petitions Committee refers the petition of Robert Glendining and another of Dunedin praying for a rebate of probate duty on the estate of James William Smith j to the Government for favourable con- i sideration. j Petition* for the completion of the Rivers- ! dale-Switzers railway are referred to the Government for favourable consideration. j MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 25. In' the House of Representatives On ' Monday evening, after formal business, | consideration of the Estimates was prooeeded with. . Some discussion took place on the government of the Cook and other Islands, Mr Moss making complaints against the conduct of Colonel Gudgeon, the High ; Commissioner, in dealing with land matters. ABOLISHING THE TOTALISATOR. Replying to Mr Ell on the motion to go into Committee of Supply, the Right Hon. Mr SEDDON said he feared there was not much, chance of the question of the abolii tion of the totalisator coming on this I session, but it was the intention' of the Government to submit the Referendum Bill to the House. As the greater includes the lesser, it would include the referring of the totalisator question to the people. The House then went into Committee of Supply for further consideration of THE ESTIMATES. The vote for the miscellaneous services of the Education Department was first j taken. Mr MASSEY urged that the Go- ' vcrnment should take into consideration the advisability of increasing the grant to country libraries by £1500 in view of the buoyant revenue. He was sure the great body of the people of the colony would approve of this increase, and he hoped it would appear on Supplementary Estimates. The total vote for the Education Department passed unaltered. At the vote for the miscellaneous services of Customs Department Mr HERRIESV expressed tha opinion that the Government would get rid of the Island schooner Countess of Ranfurly, which was a white elephant.— The- Hon. C. H. MILLS said unfortunately tb ft res had been a loss on the vessels working last year, but for the first six months of the current year there was a credit balance of £147. He did not | I think the boat would turn out a white ! elephant. Offers had been made to purj chase her from the department, but her j captain had asked that no steps be taken j in the matter until his return to Auckland. — Mr MOSS moved that the item " salary of Resident Commissioner of Cook and 1 other Islands, £500," be reduced by £5. as j an indication of the dissatisfaction with the action of the Government in refusing to give information^ concerning a certain case that was tried at the group. — Mr ! MILLS said he had given all the informa- ■' tion that was in possession of the Governj ment.— Mr HERRIES thought they were trying to extort too much money from the ■ Islands. He also objected to the opinion of the Commissioner of the group that the Islanders should cease the export of oranges and go in for the cultivation of cocoanuts instead.— Mr JAMES ALLEN said tho report of the Islands showed that leprosy 1 was rampant, and ho asked what the Go- | vernment was doing in the matter ; also there appeared to be trouble with the Arikis, who were turning people off the

land.— Mr MILLS said he was firmly of J opinion that the Islands wore going to be a great success in tbeir way. and that they | would attract many New Zealand holidaymakers. That, however, would not happen till a direct fortnightly servioa with New Zealand was established. There had been , a grievance about land among some of the Arikis, but the Island vas now being sur- ' veyed, and ho was asking Colonel Gudgeon ] to give him thp necessaiy information, so that he could let people know what sections were available and how much they would cost. The Union Company was -making a concession in regard to fares to the inlands. — A _ lengthy d-'scussion took place regarding the , charge made by Mr Moss against j Colonel Gudgeon. The Natives declared (Mr Moss slated) that the judge gave ths ; land (Aitutaki) to the Natives, who alleged ownership of the land on which he had lent £500. If he had awarded the land j io other Natives the lease on which he : had lent the money would have been I valueless.— The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON said he had not heard ij; alleged that an injustice had been done to anyone in- j terestod in the land If that charge was made he would be the first to agree to an inquiry, and send someone over there with full power to * doal the matter. — Mr MILLS asked how it was that 210 complaint had ever reached him from the Natives or anyone else about Colonel j Gudgeon's decision. He had never re- j ceived such a complaint. — The Hon. Mr j CARROLL pointed out that Colonel Gudgeon was iho only man on the islands who could have tiied the case_ referred to. | — Eventually Mr Moss's motion was lost, by 28 to 18. — Mr MOBS thereupon moved another reduction of the vote as an indication that Colonel Gudgeon lacked the judicial mind. He made this motion in order to bring further charges against the commissioner in regard to his dealings in Native lands in Poverty Bay, and complained that the Government had refused him certain papers necessary to prove theso charges. Mr Moss went on to refer to the "miserably, cowardly'" way in which the Alinister of "Customs had acted. — Mr SEDDON asked that these words be taken down.— Mr MOSS said if the words were unparliamentary he would withdraw them. —Mr SEDDON said if the business of the House was to be conducted in a decorous and proper way such language could not , be allowed.— Mr MOSS said he had spoken in. the heat of the moment, and withdrew the language and expressed regret "at having used it.— Mr SEDDON said the papers asked for by Mr Moss could be applied for to the Supreme Court, and no Government, where it was a question of justice, could withhold them.— Mr Moss's motion was lost on the voices. — In reply to Mr Massey, Mr MILLS said it was the intention of the Government to sell the island ■schooner Coantess of Ranfurly. — The total vote for the Customs Department then passed unaltered. State Coal Mines Account, £123,630.— Mr HERRIES moved a reduction of £1 as j an indication that the management at the distributing end (Wellington) is not all that could "be desired. In the course of a considerable discussion, the Hon. Mr M'GOWAN said the State coal mines could show that they had brought about a reduction in the price of coal, even in a short space of time They had not been two years in existence and yet they showed a profit. Every effort was being made to establish a State depot at Wellington.— Mt GUINNESS complained that while the output of the State coal mine was equal to 150.000 tons a year the output had only ■ been 92,949 tons. That meant that orders had been refused.— Mr HOGG contended ■ that the Government was keeping coal up J to a fictitious price because it would not do its duty and establish depots. The Minister knew that lie had never tried to , bring the State coal within the reach of the general public— Mr Herries's motion was lost by 23 to 17._ Mr GUINNESS asked if it was the intention of the Government to carry out the promise of the , Premier to bring the State coal mines under the operation of the Arbitration Act. —Mr SEDDON said he did not tell the deputation at Seddonville that he would bring the question before the Cabinet. He thought occasions had arisen in which the managers of the State coal mines had suffered a disadvantage compared with the managers of private mines. The Cabinet had not yet decided the question.— The total vote passed unaltered. SILTING AT INCH-CLUTHA. In the House of Representatives this evening Mr James Allen asked the Premier what he was going to do about the silting up of the Clutha Kiver at Inch-Clutha. He suggested that a sum should be placed on the Supplementary Estimates for raising the banks of the river. The Premier replied that his colleague the Minister of Mines had not refc been able to give consideration to this matter, and. it would be dealt with by Cabinet. THE SCHOOL COMMISSIONERS. ] Mr Fraser (Wakatipu) asked the Premier about his nromise to bring in a bill to enable' the *Otago School Commissioners to use the goldfields revenue to which they are entitled in connection with the necessary works in the interests of the tenants. TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26. In the Legislative Council on Tuesday the only business transacted related -to the Ddhvorth Trustees Act Amendment Bill. In the House of Representatives on Tuesday the whole afternoon was devoted to discussing the case of J. J. Meikle. The Petitions Committee recommended that his name be removed from the prison and public records. Eventually the matter was referred to the Government for favourable consideration. In the evening the debate on the Workers' Dwellings Bill was r-asumed, and continued unt.il about 1 o'clock, when the Premier replied, and the bill was read a second time. THE MEIKLE CASE. The Public Petitions Committee recommended that some mean<s be devised by whioh J. J. Meikle's name could be removed from the prison and public records of the colony. With regard to Meikle's claim for compensation, the committee had no recommendation to make. In the comae of a lengthy discussion, several member 1 ; urged that Meikle should be recompensed by the colony, that his name should be removed from the prison records, and that the necessary legislation should be introduced. The Hon. J. M'GJOWAN said the Govern-

merit had already paid Meikle £500 and th-e legal cxpons-as he was put to. As to eiasing his name from the prison records, lhat would be an impossibility. The fact that he had received the compensation and given a, receipt for it v.ao the host clearance he could possibly he.\e. He (Mr M'Gowan) r&d no objection to anything that was reasonable, but there weio so many records in connection With the case that it would, he btlievcd. be impossible to destroy them all. Mr MASSEY pointed out that the hands of Parliament were tied. The;/ could move nothing in connection vwth expenditure. The initiative must rest with the Government, and he thought the Government had notdone enough. If it required an act of Parliament he believed it wotild be carried almost unanimously. The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON eaid he had no feeling in this matter except to do his duty. When the £500 and the. £294cost* were paid the Government was led to understand that that sum would be accepted. The Government was prepared to insert printed slips- in the records staling all the facts favourable to Meukle's innocence. This offer wa>3 made in 1903, but it was not accepted. He believed the agitation on Meikle's behalf had been used not so much for the purpose of assisting Meikie as an attempt upon the Government, and particularly upon himself. Mr BOLLARD moved that the report be referred back to thjp committee as an indication that Meikle's name ought to be rer moved from the prison records, and that he should be paid further compensation. Subsequently Mr SEDDON promised tl>at if the report was referred to the* Government for consideration, he would intimate later on what the Government intended to do in the matter. Eventually Mr Bollard's amendment was lost by 31 to 24-, 'and the report of the committee was referred to the Government for consideration. With regard to Meikle's petition praying to be heard at tbe Bar of the House, the Public Petitions Committee reported thafc it had 210 recommendation to make. WORKERS' DWELLINGS. The debate on the second reading of the Workeis' Dwellings Bill was resumed by Mr BOLLARD, who contended that the conditions of the Premier's scheme were too stringent. Mr HOGG opposed the proposal to allow (he tenants to acquire the freehold. Mr BEDFORD believed that the most effective way to cope" with the overcrowding difficuiry would be to remodel our system of taxation. Sir W. R. P U USSELL disapproved of the bill, but would fote for the second reading with the view of having it amended in committee. Mr WILLIS did not think the bill would give satisfaction. It would be far easier for the Government to lend money at a low rate of interest to the principal cities, which could utilise reserves for the purpose of workmen's homes. Mr SUDDO strongly disaj^proved of ihe proposal that the Government should erect the dwellings. The Government should lend the worker the money, and let him erect his house on any plan he liked. Mr BENNET considered that when the bill left committee it would be a very useful and necessary measure. Mr HAN AN thought they should stick to the principle of the leasehold. To part with the freehold would ultimately result in the old system of landlordism. Mr M-LACHLAN doubted whether the bill would fulfil the desires expressed for it. It was a vote-catcher, and Mr Massey was the first to be caught. Mr FOWLDS would vote for the second reading, but he objected to many of the details of the bill, and he believed it would almost entirely fail to remedy tho evils it was desired to remove. Mr J. C. THOMSON said if the system was properly carried out it would be productive of great good. Similar schemes in the Old Country had been a great success. Mr KIRKBRIDE would do his best when the bill was in committee to secure for the worker an unrestricted freehold. Mr SEDDON, replying at 1 a.m., expressed pleasure at the favourable reception the bill had received. Ho reiterated the necessity there was to improve the housing of the workers, and added that be often marvelled how some of the workers, in the face of the heavy rents they had to pay, managed to pay thenway and keep themselves respectable. Ihe bill was intended to operate over the whole of the colony, and it was never intended to apply only to the large centres. There was just as much necessity for the system proposed in the bill for some of the smaller towns as there was for the big cities. The Government might have to spend large sums of money, but he did not hesitate to urge the House to make the experiment. If they housed the workers at a loss of 1 per cent., he did not consider it would be any loss to the colony at all. He _ had intended to put the Sttate into the position of letting houses at a weekly rent, but there was a good doal in the contention that the floating population had to be considered, and an amendment of the bill would need to be made to cope with the proposal. He was prepared to move in committee to provide for a weekly tenancy. As to the freehold v. leasehold question, he asked what was the u^-e of Parliament giving houses at a cheap rental if in a few years the houses were to fall into private hands. To do any good at all they must have the houses occupied by people who would not use them for money-making purposes. That was why the bill proposed that the tenement must be occupied by tne owner or lessee. With regard to the rates of interest proposed, he declared that, taking -the rents charged in the larae centres, house-owners were getting double the interest provided under the bill. When in committee he would do his bo^t to preserve the policy contained in the bill as introduced. The second reading wa* agreed to on the voices - „ THE MEIKLE CAFE. There appears to be- a growing fceiing that Mr J. J. Meiklc. convicted and imprisoned for sheep-stealing on the evidence of a periurer, has not received justice at ther hands of the colony. Year after year the matter crope up in Parliament, and it would seem as if the Government will by force of public opinion, and also of opinion within the walls of Parliament, yet be compelled to give Meikle more adequate compensation and to remove his name from the prison records. The matter occupied attention during nearly the. whole of this afteji noon. Mr Seddon, speaking just before the dinner adjournment, charged hon.

1 members *\ith endeavouring to make politi eal capital out of the ca-e. This statement was, liowow 1!',1 !', wjrnily icpiul atorl by Air Macsey. lie said thai ho had never mentioned ileikk's name outside <-f ths<- nc;i ! /j, but neiv-erthpless ho felt thac ilcikle nac? not had jusp'cc done to him. WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27. In the Legislative Ccunrii on Wednesday luo local bills weto considered, the sitting lasting a little ovci- an hour In the Hou-o of Representati^son Wed . ne^day a considerable portion of fclic afternoon sitting' was devoted to roplie-, to questions. The introduction ot (ho Maori j Land Settlement Bill led to a shorL debate on Native affairs. In the evening- Mr j Masscy sprung a surprise no-confidciice I motion by moving as an amendment to 1 going into Committee of Supply that the ! attitude of the Government with regard to the land question v/as nol satisfactory to the House. This was defeated without | debate by 39 to 21. Rome progress was I made with the General Estimates, and then the Imprest Supply Klll was . after discussion, put through all stages. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. In reply to questions. Ministers stated :

That it is not the intention of. the Government to manufacture cordite or other explosives, inquiries having proved that the consumption is small and that commercial success is problematical. j " That the rates for railway travel in this colony are r already very low and well ' -within the reach ~iof' all sections of the community, and ihe Government considers * that any reduction in favour of either the tramway employees or of any branch of the civil service J should be most strenuously opposed as being" inimical to the best in- j terests of the railway service and of the general public. ' ! That the temporary inconvenience caused ' by the high price of potatoes does not ( seem to warrant the introduction of a bill to amend the tariff this session. To introduce a bill to 'amend the tariff in one direction would open, the whole fiscal position.- The- time- is inopportune to face so wide a question. . " j Mr TAYLOR asked the Premier whether ( the Government will "endeavo.ur to arrange . _a ..conference'., betw.een. representatives of j the farming- and manufacturing interests with a view to-* arranging a basis for such parliamentary action -this session as shall protect this colony's implement industry ■from injury as a result c~ the operation in New. Zealand of American trust methods and capital. The Premier's reply was as follows : — , " From "what has appeared in the press action has been taken in the direction mdi- j cated by the question by the parties more particularly interested, and the Government will -be only too pleased to further each and every effort in this direction. I The Premier will be very pleased to meet members representing the country electo- ' rates and members representing industrial i centres, and strongly urges that such meet- j ing- be- hold -at an early date, with a view of deciding upon the best course to be , taken in bringing together the representatives of the farming and manufacturing , interestf. ■ NATIVE LAND POLICY. The Maori Land Settlement Bill No. 2 was introduced by Governor's Message and read a first time. Mr TAYLOR asked whether this was the - onl-r phase of the land question that was to be . considered before the session closed, or whether the House would be given an- ' other opportunity of dealing with the land ' proposals of the Preniier. ' The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON said Mr Rhodes's amendment mrfst come up again, and opportunity would be given to the House to deal with it. ' Mr MASSEY said he was anxious to see ttie Maori Land Settlement Bill dealt with, and he hoped the Government would give an assurance that it would be placed on j the Statute Book this session., i • -vMr JAMES ALLEN complained that these important Native Bills were always brought down at the end of the session, I when members bad neither time nor opportunity to properly deal with them. ! \ Mr A. L. D. FRASER remarked that , the act passed in 1893 was in some respects 4 very much better measure than this bill, j Mr KAIHAU urged that therp was no time now to deal with suoh sn important, measure as this. 'The Hon. J. CARROLL fakl that next ypar 5t would be a good thing to have some South Island members on the Native

Affairs Committee. The Government was anxious to have this question settled, but it had always been thwarted by the combined action of Europeans and Natives, who were moro or less directly interested. Mr MASSEY suggested that if the present Government was on the TreasuryBenches next session a special committee should -be set up to draft a bill dealing with the Native land question, and he felt satisfied that such a committee would frame a bill that would have the effect of settling the Native land difficulty by placing the Natives on their own lands and throwing the Native lands open for settlement and cultivation. Mr SEDDON urged that the defects in Native legislation had been brought about by the Native Affairs Committee. After considerable discussion the bill was referred to the Native Affairs Committee. The House devoted the remainder of the afternoon to a discussion ,on replies to questions. A NO-CONFIDENCE MOTION. On the motion that the House go into Committee of Supply to consider the usual monthly Imprest Supply Bill, Mr MASSEY moved as an amendment — " That the attitude of the Government with regard to the land question is not satisfactory to this House." Speaking to the amendment, Mr Massey dealt at length with the action of Government in regard to land legislation of recent years, and urged that the course it took before the last election showed that the Government would like to do away with the optional system altogether, and insist on all land being taken up on lease in perpetuity. He would withdraw his amendment if Mr Seddon would promise to bring down a Land Bill this session giving all Crown lessees the right to acquire the freehold. The Lease-in-perpe-tuity tenants should be compelled to pay the difference of 1 per cent, between the 4- per cent, they paid and the 5 per een*v they would have had to pay under the occupation with right of purchase tenure. They should be allowed to purchase at the original value A very large number of sections had changed hands at an enhanced value, and if they had to pay an additional pries for the freehold they would be paying twice over. It was said that the unearned increment belonged to the State, but if that was so the Crown had by the lease in perpetuity given it away for 999 years. The unearned increment in such a lease could not be sold because it was of no value to anyone but the settler, who heM it for 999 years. The increase in v.-ilue belonged to the settler, and not to the /State. The Premier had sfated that by his (Mr Massey "s) ' freehold proposal he wanted to rob the State of one million of money. Now, there were in round figures 9000 Crown lessees, and that meant that ia each case there had been an increased ralue of more than £1000. And yet a return recently presented showed that none of those lessees were paying- land tax, which meant that in not one of those cases was the added value equal to £500. The more freeholders a country possessed the better it was for the country, and the aggregation of large estates could easily be prevented by adopting the French law that, on the death of a landholder, the land should be divided among the members of his family.

If the colony was going to prosper there must be security of tenure, and that could only be brought about by giving people the option of the freehold. No debate took place, and the amendment was rejected by 39 to 21. The following is the division list : — For the Amendment (21). — Messrs Aitken, Alison, J. Allen, Bedford, Bollard, Buchanan, TV. Fraser, Harding, Hardy, Hawkins, Hexries, Hirkbride, Lang, Lethbridge, Lewis, Mander, Massey, Rhodes, Russoll, J. W. Thomson, Vile. Against the Amendment (39). — Messrs Arnold.. Barber, Beimet, Buddo, Carroll, ColTin, Davcy, Duncan, Ell. Flatinan, Fowlds, A. L. D. Fraser Hall, Hall- Jones, Haruui, Hogg, Houston, Kailiau, Kidd, Lawry, Major. M'G-owan, E. M'Kenzie, M'Lacblan, M'Nal), Millar, Mills, Parata, Pere, Rutherford, Seddon, Sidey, Smith, Steward, Tanner, Ward, Willis, Witty, Wood. Pairs. — For the Amendment: Messrs ]>uthie, Herdman, and T. Mackenzie. Against the Amendment: Messrs E. G. Allen, Laurenson, and Wilf&rd IMPREST SUPPLY. The House then went on to discuss the question of going into supply. 'Mr HERRIBS complained that the details of the 1903 loan had not been given yet, and said it was all a part of the secretive nolicy pursued by the Government Mr" SEDDON replied that before the Loan Bill was taken he would give a return showing the amounts and terms of renewals. Up to March 31 last close on £1,000,003 had been renewed on satisfactory terms. He urged that financial matters could be discu-sed without casting reflections on the stability of the colony or its finances. THE ESTIMATES. The House then went into Committee of Supply, but deferred . consideration of the Imprest Supply Bill until some more of the consolidated Estimates had been dealt with. The first class taken was Public Trust, £26.263.— Mr HERRIES raised the question of the West Coast settlement reserves, the Native owners of which last year had petitioned that they should be allowed to administer their own lands. Mr SEDDON said he would consult the Public Trustee as to bringing clown a bill dealing with the matter this session. The vote passed unaltered. Government Insurance Deparlm&nt, £56,444— Mr JAMES ALLEN asked if it was a fact that the Government office is riot maintaining co high a percentage of new business as some other companies. — Mr SEDDON said he had made inquiries, and found that last year the amount of business wa-s very satisfactory. The department had been some years in existence, and consequently more policies matured than in the case of a younger company. — The vote passed unaltered. Government Accident Insurance, £8515. — Passed unaltered. State Eire Insurance Department, £8155. —Mr JAMES ALLEN wanted to know if the department was cutting rates, and why the general manager had gone home. — Mr SEDDON said the High Commissioner advised that he should go Home in connpetion with the business of the department. There was no trouble with the underwriters, but the Government had enlarged the limit of its ooerationsj and that was why $he

general manager had to go Home to consult about the matter.— Mr T. MACKENZIE said the State Department was forcing up the rates.— Mr SEDDON, in reply to a question, said the- point had been raised as to whether the limits of risks should be increased. Before coming to a decision it was thought advisable that the general manager should go Home. The department had not gone into competition. The increased rates charged to firms which could not put all their risks with the department would recoil on the eompariies taking such a course, and he was not at all sure that if it continued the Government would not impose a drastio remedy. That cotild be done, as the Government had the people behind it in this respect. — Mr T. MACKENZIE said that in cases where the Government could not take the full amount of the risk, the rates charged by other companies were so heavy as to almost prevent business being done.— Mr BUCHANAN considered the Government should not go beyond putting a fair check on the rates charged.— Mr SEDDON said the Government would only go as far as the law allowed.— Mr MASSEY urged that all public buildings should be insured in the State Department.— Sir J. G. "WARD contended that that would be very bad business. It would cost from 25,000 to £30,000 a year, and the losses over a number of years past did not amount to £10,000.— Mr MASSEY argued that if the State did not insure there should be a depreciation, fund. Thej^ ought to do one or the other. — The total vote passed unaltered. Progress was then reported on the Estimates, and the House proceeded to discuss THE IMPREST SUPPLY BILL. Mr HERRIES urged that alteiation should be made in the system of payment of subsidies to local bodies. At present the subsidy was only paid on rates up to |il in the pound, so that if a local body rated itself, say, l£d, at could get no more' than the body that rated at |d. The anomaly should be removed. Mr ELL complained that a considerable portion of the Government subsidy was being paid to local bodies that did not need any assistance, while other local bodies in poor circumstances could not get any help. Mr JAMES ALLEN pointed out that the expenditure on publio works during the past six months had been only £600,000, although £2,286,000 had been &et apart for expenditure on public works during the year. It was impossible to spend the balance in the time remaining, and the whole thing was ridiculous. Replying to Mr Ja^mes Allen's comments. Mr SEDDON said the Government would not b© justified in expending money on ptiblic works in the ratio set out in the Public Works Estimates until those Estimates had been passed. The bill then passed its final stages.