INVERCARGILL, March 22.

Otago Witness, Issue 2663, 29 March 1905, Page 32

INVERCARGILL, March 22.

The- Ren. J. M'Gowan, who arrived here to-night, has been visiting; the dredging areas, principally to see the effect of the industry on tlu- la".d. He is of opinion fhat in many esses dredging does good to jh-a land from an agricultural point of view. Especially when the delivery of tailings is hi- v. jlce. WLer» the ground is deep and

tho stuff is delivered by elevator the case may be different, but he does net think that the outcry raised in some parts of Otag-o is well founded.

GORE. March 25

The Ministerial party left Imercargill by the 8 a.m. train for Gore, which was reached after about an hour's run.

Very shortly after the Minislci's arn\al Mr M'Xab, member for Mataura. introduced a numerous deputation who desired to approach Mr M'Gowan in regard to seveial matters appertaining to dredging. Mr Green said they were a deputation from the Southland Gold Miners' Industrial Union of Employers, which had been formed in Gore some years ago. The first matter the deputation wished to bring before the Minister was in connection with the Waimumu tail race. Affairs in regard to this were administered by the Mataura Borough Council, which had not the welfare of the miners at heart. Dredging people ■were called upon to pay a heavy sum for maintenance, and had no say in the expenditure of the money. The Borough Council had really no interest in mining affairs, and offered opposition in the matter of maintenance. There had alSo been a little friction in connection with companies that had started since the construction of the tail race, who refused to pay anything towards the cost of construction or maintenance.

Mr Inder. speaking of the two channels in the district, said the affairs of the Charlton Creek channel were administered by farmers and miners, and everything went well, but in the case of the Waimumu the Mataura Borough Council had no interest whatever and did nothing. The companies could do nothing" without the council, and that body did not know what was wanted. He proceeded to refer to the declaration of "Waimumu as a sludge channel, and asked. Could any person carrying on operations discharge mining debris into that channel? The channel cost so much money, and there were so many dredging companies which had paid the total cost of construction and had been paying the total cast of jnaintenance. Freeh dredges had started; and the original companies thought the cost should be divided and refunded by the fresh companies- The original companies considered it was not fair they should pay all the costs of construction and) maintenance. He proceeded to refer to an action brought in connection with the matter, and to the fact that no decision had' yet been given in a case stated by the warden, the judge desiring to confer with his brother judges in Wellington. It was complained that two bodies were managing the channels where one was quite sufficient, and the deputation thought a simple amendment to the act would do the whole thing-.

The Hon. Mr M'Gowan: You would not ask me to do anything till this case is settled? '

Mr Inder replied in the negative, and said what was suggested was that matters should be vested in a board composed of

miners, farmers, and the Mayor of the borough as a member ex-offioio. That was to say, two farmers, two miners, and an ex-officio member representing the Government. He was pretty well sure the Minister had power to make regulations to meet the case.

Mr M'Gowan said the request seemed to be to place the Waimumu race pretty well in the same position as the Charlton Creek race.

Mr Green said that that was so, but the alteration would have to be retrospective. Two companies had dropped out of existence and two new companies had come into existence.

A member of the deputation mentioned that the cos£ of maintenance per year of the race was £125, and that each company had paid £240 for construction.

Mr MaeGibbon stated that the Borough of Mataura used to be flooded, and this race obviated that. The Borough Council had promised a deputation of miners that it jvould contribute towards the- channel, but nad not done so. The deputation held that the power should be taken out of the hands of the Borough Council and placed in other hands. Expensive bridges had been constructed in connection w : th the matter, and money frittered away. He mentioned that tho destruction of land by dredging, so far as Charlton Creek and Wainrumu were concerned, was practically nil. because the land was fit for nothing but dredging, and was, as a matter of fact, improved by sluicedredging'. The Minister said he did not .see that he would be justified in doing- anything until the result of the case pending was known. So fay as his own opinion was concerned, he thought anyone using a sludge channel should pay something towards its maintenance. He understood the deputation's request was that a board should be established on somewhat similar lines to that managing the Charlton Creek channel. It was a matter, he thought, which deserved consideration, but until the law case was settled ho would take no action. Then he would go into the thing thoroughly. and do fairly by both sides. If the borough was relieved of the danger of flood in consequence of the channel, it seemed unreasonable it should control a channel for which others were paying. Mr Green referred to the state of the roads to the mining properties, which had last winter been cut up by heavy traffic. Dredges had been stopped in their work during 'he winter, and contractors for carting coal had killed horses It was impossible for the local body to keep the roads up owing to their limited means, and he suggested that Ihe Government should grant £200 for Charlton Creek, £200 for W aimumu, and £200 for Waikaka roads. He also referred to the theft of gold, and said they had lost considerably by it, and thought the matter could be mended by the licensing of gold buyers. Mr M'Gowan expressed doubt as to whether that would prevent stealing.

Mr Green said if they had a suspicion of theft from a di-edgo they would be able to examine books, and see where the- gold was got from if buyers were licensed. Mr M'Gowan : The mere registration of gold-buyers would not have any appreciable effect.

Mr Inder mentioned that in making in- , ■vestigation and inquiry he was surprised to find that the banks were utterly disre- ' gardinsj the G-old Duties Abolition Act, | with its amendments of 1896 If detailed returns were made by the banks it would be a check on stealing. He had been surprised to find the ignorance in banking institutions as to provision* of the acts If th.'* facts were made known tint banks were liable to a heavy" penalty for not complying

with tho act it would ha\e the dc-iied •c freer

Mr M'Gowan -said he could e.i-ih loply to that, l)ccan-o it was a ■.impl" matter for him to make inquiries and sec that the law wfis carried out.

The depntat'on then thanked the Mm -ncr and withdrew.

A VISIT TO WAIKAKA

Ten minute^ later tho party was dm ing in tl>e direction of Waikaka. the road taken being tip the Main road to Waikaka Forks, bjonchii'g of from there hy the Turtle Waikaka Valley read until the United claim was reached. Here the party alighted, an' 1 * ihe Minister boarded the dredge and made an inspection of the land that had been divdged. with the object of ascertaining the extent, if any. of the damage done. It certainly did not appear as if the ground in tho vicinity had bee-n destroyed or even injured, but that with sluicebox dredging improvement had taken plaoe. The grass was springing pretty well all over except where dredging had been recent. The party (in which were Messrs R. M'Xab and J. W. Thomson. M.H R.s) resumed their drive, and shortly after reached Waikaka township. A rest" of a little over an hour saw a start made to return by way of th-a Main road to Gore. At the Waikaka Company's claim the party dismounted and entered the ground, and here the Minister was shown the results of clover-sowing on tailings. The clover had got a very fanhold, and several head of cattle were feedin" upon it. This was not, however, their sofe support, as undredged land was included in the area fenced. The Minister had a good opportunity of witnessing the method of separating the very fine material passing through the dredge from the coarser material and distributing it on the strrfaoe of the tailings with the view to future farming operations. The drive was continued in the face of a heavy gale, which had been blowing all day. and the party was not sorry whe>n Gore was reached a little before 5 o'clock.

ANOTHER DEPUTATION

Very soon after the Minister's return to Gore from Waikaka he was interviewed by members of the legal profession (Messrs Inder, Poppelwell, and Bowler) relative to the boundaries of the District and Bankruptcy Courts. Mr Poppelwell stated that the only boundary for the District Court that had ever been laid down was fixed by the boundaries of the different runs, and that this was done soon after the passing of "The District Court Act, 1858." Those boundaries had never been altered, but as many of the runs had oeased to exist, the result was that those who had occasion to define the boundaries with accuracy had a very poor prospect of doing so. Persons living seven or eight miles from Gore who had occasion to appeal to the District court — fay those at Waikaia — had to go away from Gore to Lawrence or elsewhere to have their cases tried. This matter had been brought under the notice of District Judge Ward, and he, recognising the hardship to litigants, had suggested that those interested should go into the question and recommend the necessary modification of boundaries. This had been •attempted, but it had been found impossible without a survey, and the legal profession at Gore would be glad if the Minister would endeavour to have the matter dealt with by the Survey Department in such a manner that the boundaries could be adjusted to suit modern conditions. When this was being done it might be arranged that the boundaries of the Bankruptcy Court be mads co-terminous with those of the District Court. Another request made by Mr Poppelwell and those with him was that procedure in the District Court should be assimilated with that of the Supreme Court, as there was no reason why there should be any difference. The advantage of such an alteration would be that the whole of the cafes that affected procedure would be dealt with in the Supreme Court, and the hig-hest court in the colony would thus lay down procedure for both courts.

Messrs Bowler and Inder also spoke, both citing instances where cases arising near Gore had had to be tried elsewhere owing to the present boundaries of the district not being readjusted to meet changed conditions brought about by increased settlement. Mr M'Gowan, before replying, said he would like the opinion of the legal gentlemen pr-esent in regard to District Courts. He knew that it was the opinion of some members of the profession in cities that District Courts should be abolished altogether. The question had also been raised in the House of Representatives, and he was anxious to know what were the real requirements of the public in this direction. If they would give him their opinion it might be an indication of the feeling in the country districts with regard to the abolition or retention of this court.

Speaking 1 for those present, Mr Poppel- , well said, so far as he could see, the qr.es- ' tion resolved itself into whether, in the event Gf the abolition of the District Court. ' the Supreme Court would sic in places whore the District Court sat now. Where ! there was a good deal of business, he i thought the Supreme Court could take the ' place of the District Court. There was no ' doubt that if the Supreme Court only sat j in the centres it would be against the interests of the country places, as all litigants, with witnesses, etc., would be dragged away to large towns, and the result would also j be that all th-e Supreme Court business would be thrown into the hands of lawyers in the?e places. If the District Court were abolished and additional judges of the j Su.pr.ptne Court appointed, so that sittings I oould be held in country places where business justified such sittings, he thought the change would be a satisfactory one: and, in his opinion, the pugarestion he had already made relative to assimilating proceduie in direction.

Thp Minister of Justice, in reply, said | that ,as he had already stated, he understood ! the opinion of pome members of the le,£ral | profession in the cities was that District Courts should ho abolished altogether, and | lie was very glad to have their opinion ] aleo on this matter. a.s it would be a guide . to th-o Government in deciding what course ,

they should adopt. With resrard to tho question of boundaries 1 of the District Court and Bankruptcy Court, he considered that an endeavour should be made to meet the con- , venience of the public and those represent- i in# the public in the court, although it I was probable that any readjustment would lead to a protest from places which had now ceased to be of the im.porta.noe they were ' formerly. The Government would have to take the bull by the horns, and. as conditions had changed over »uch a larpre period of yoiis, it would be necessary to make altciat.ons to meet present requirements.

On !■>;<- return to ■Wellington re would make iiiquiues as to the actual position, and toe ■uKit eou'd 1p done- in tho matter. Revertiiiq to rlu> question he had raisod re tho iihjlilion. of the District Comt, he -aid that looking at rlhe matter a- a layman and without dawning any particular knowledge of rlie -übjtct. ho was inclined to think that if the Government could sec its way to appoint additional judge? to hold Supreme Court Mtting-- m ceitain districts where they are not now held there would be- a pos-i-uility of doing away with District Courts. KAITAXGATA, March 24.

The Hon. J. M'Gowan, Minister of Mines, left (4ore by the first express this morning for Dunedin. bre-aking hi» journey at Stirling, whence he was convoyed to Kaitangata by train. sent from Kaitangata by the New Zealand Colherios Company. He was met at Stirling by the Mayor of Kaitangata (Mr Poole) and several others, and received a formal though warm welcome on arival at Kaitangata from the Mayor and Mr Hollows (who represented the Coal Miners' Union). The Minister suitably acknowledged the hearty greetings of the Mayor and Mr Hollows.

(Shortly after his arrival Mr M'Gowan was waited upon by a deputation, consisting of Mr D. M'lnnis (president). Mr J. Hollows (secretary), and Mr Beck (commrtteeman), of the Coal Miners' Union.

Mr Hollows said the first matter they desired to bring tinder the notice of the Minister was the advisableness of getting some amendment of the Sunday Labour in Mines Protection Act of 1897. At present there was no provision fixing the minimum rate for workers if called upon to work on Sundays, and they had had trouble in the matter through the omission. It might be said the registered unions had their remedy through the awards of the Arbitration Court, but they desired that an amendment of the act in order that miners in places where there was no union might be benefited.

Mr Beck mentioned that in some places miners were not strong enough to form a union, and it was for these the deputation spoke.

The Minister said he presumed what was sought was a minimum rate of pay in relation to the ordinary rates of wages. There were cases of Sunday working where it was impossible to get an authority in time from the- inspector. Men would have- to b© started to work right away, but the attention of the inspector should be called to the circumstances, and whatever was the legal waye for Sunday labour paid.

Mr Hollows said the miners at Kaitangata had readily ag-reed to time and a-ha!f.

The Minister stated that a note had been taken of the matter, which would be looked into.

Mr Hollows said the next point was the necessity of further protecting -workers tinder the Coal Mines Act. He had had some difficulty in bringing the matter _ under any particular section, but by section 44 any complaint made to the inspector was bound to be kept secret. They had no complaint to mak*> in that respect, but they had reason to belie.ye that through workers complying with the provisions of special rule 34 (regarding the compulsory reporting by workers of any defects in mines) they had sometinmes been dismissed. They thought where it was proved that any man acting under rule 2+ had suffered some penalty should be imposed. The Minister asked how th<= difficulty was to be got over, to which Mr Hollows replied that all they asked was that a penalty should be imposed in cases where men were proved to have suffered thi-ovigh complying with the rule mentioned.

The Minister said he thought in such cases men should be reinstated, and if the deputation could phow him how it could he done fairly to both parties he would be quite prepared to consider it. In relation to giving a reason for dismissal, he pointed out that it cut both ways, in that the employer had a right to oxnend his money as he liked and the. employee to dispose of his labour in the wav he thought to be most advantageous to hnnspjf. It was a point that wanted consideration, and a note had been taken of it.

The deputation, having thanked the Minister, retired. Mr James Allen. M.H.R.. the-n introduced a deputation representing the Borough Council and burgesses, who desired to hriner several matters under the Minister's notice.

Tho Mayor (Mr Pooled said the first matter the deputation wished to refer to was ihf erection of p suitable court of ju=tice for the place. The town had been growing by leaps and bounds for a considerable time, and had now a population of 2000, which was equal to the population of Milton The Department of Justice was paying £10 a year rent for the present place, and he thouaht this would go a loner wav towards pa3*ing interest on the cost of a building.

The Minister, in answer +o th-p roquet, sai-rl he recognised it was the duTy of the Department of Justice to provide necessary accommodation for the public, but one reason for not building courthouses in such places as Kaitanptita was that they were growing towns, which would in later years reauire buildings of a more elaborate description, and the wisdom of delaying +ho erection of a courthouse had. in some instances, been seen, the places oj-e^ted proving- too small in the course of a few years. He imagined the rent paid for the prose-nt place would hardly pay the interest on thecost of a suitable building. Ho wn-Id look into the question closely, and if tho sinount of business done made it necessary in proceed to build a new place, he would ask for a sum sufficient for the building' of a courthouse.

Dr Fitzgerald introduced the question of a new post office. The present building, he pointed out fell very far short of requirements, and the residence portion of it was insanitary. They thought that if a new courthouse was built the structure might be such as to serve both purposes Mr James Allen mentioned that he had drawn Sir Joseph Ward's attention to the matter som° time ago. and tho necessity for extended accommodation had largely increa^d -since then.

The Minister said he would soo the plae-i before his departure, and if he thought extended accommodation necessary would strongly represent the matter to Sir Joseph

Dr Fitzgerald do-ircd to make it clear that the postmaster had mado no complaints in the. matter I

Mr Yates asked the Minister to u^e his influence with the Minister of Railways to get tho morning- express from th» south to stop at Stirling-. Tho cost of the oxnrws "topping thcie would involve very little expense-.

The Mjn:~tor said he would bring- the mattm- before- Su Jo-eph Ward, who. ho had no doubt wo u ld give Ihe leqii'st full and fair eonsideisituin. Mr M'Gowan subsequently paid a \i>it to Iho courthouse and post office, and after dinner was taken to the Castle Hill and Kaitangata colheiies, where ho had explained to him many matter 1 ? connected with the working of the mines. The south expre-s was caught at Stirling, and the party reached Dunedin shortly after 7 o'clock. During tho evening the , Minister received a deputation, the nature of which was treated as private, and transacted a quantity of departmental business. He left on Saturday for Christohurch by the north express, and proceeded airoct on I to Wellington.