The General Assembly.

Otago Witness, Issue 1240, 4 September 1875, Page 8

The General Assembly.

[By Electric Telegkaph.]

"Wellington;, August 25th. Mr Dignan rose. Ho a.«id he heard with great pleasure many valuable speeches on both sides of the House. He agreed with those who said they must judge of measures, not men. The people thould have an opportunity of expressing an opinion on the measure before it becomes law. He moved that the Bill be read a second time this day bix months. He did so accordingly after a very few words.

Sir D. M'Lean said that amendment had taken the Government by surprise, but it was their intention to resUt it.

Mr Shethan said the Government wanted no more discussion, but his party had taken such measures to prevent the question b^ing brought to a conclusion, to-night. He adverted to the speech of Mr Luckie. He (Mr Lnckie) disparaged the opinion of the people. It was not so formerly. He then said, The land for he people, and people for the land At 2.30 a.m. the honourable member sat down, and Mr W. Johnstone moved the adjournment of the debate, to bo resumed tomorrow.

In the House of Representatives at 2.30 to-day, Mr Yon DerHyde presented a petition, praying that the House would not assent to the Bill for electing Mayors by ratepayers. Mr Kelly asked for all correspondence between the Auckland Superintendent -and the General Government, regarding the advance of £40,000 agreed to by the House last Beßsion.

The Colonial Treasurer said tae correspondence would be laid on the table. In reply to Mr Pyke, Mr Atkinson said that in making the appointment of a Sur-veyor-General the claims of local persons, duly qualified for the office, would be entertained. No step 3 had been taken in the matter yet.

Mr Ballance introduced a Municipal Corporations Loan Bill. It was read a first tim*.

Mr Rolleston moved that it ia desirable the House should be informed in what manner the Legislature signified its desire for the shifting of the Judges of the Supreme Court to different circuits, as stated in the letter of the acting Colouial Secretary of the 6th March, 1875, in the following words :—": — " In making the proposal the Government was actuated by a desire to carry out the expressed wishes of the Legislature." He said he held strong opinions upon this matter, and he did nut consider the proper course had been taken. The honourable gentleman, after commenting upon the correspondence which took plsce, said the action of the Government struck at the very root of justice in the Colony. He hoped the Government would give him &n assurance that no such step regarding the removal of the Judges would be token in future, and he hoped Parliamen would be invited to co-operate in framing a measure to completely reform the whole system of Supreme Courts procedure. He took exception to the expression quoted in His notice of motion. It was not warranted by what had passed in that House relating to the matter, aud was therefore very dangerous. The House had a right to feel aggrieved at Buch a statement. Mr Bowen said the words regarding the " expressed wishes of the Legislature " were inadvertently uaed, though the Government understood it to be the wishes of the Joint Committee. With regard to the removal of the Judges, the Government hoped to come to satisfactory arrangements with the Judges themselves.

Mr Murray moved that, in the opinion of the House, the rate of freight for minerals on the General Government railways should not exceed 2d per ton per mile, exclusive of terminal charges. He doubted the wisdom of making any profit upon the carriage of coal It was snob, an indispensable element in so many industries that the Government might well consider the matter, and grant to the Southern lines what had already been promised to the Auckland and Merser line. Mr Kichardßon said the honourable member ought to be fully aware that the Government had no control over the rates of the Southern lines. They were asked to do what was at present impossible, and he thought the honourable member should withdraw his motion.

The motion was withdrawn. Sir George Grey moved that there be laid before the House a return giving the names of all Europeans from whom lands or claims to lands have been purchased, or to whom compensation has been paid in respect of claims to land, out of the £700,000 set apart for the purchase of Native lands ; such return to show the amounts paid to each of such persona respectively, and the position and area of blocks in respect of which such payments have been made. He understood the return was already laid upon the table, bat the subject was of such high consideration that he still made his motion. He had never seen anything which made clear to him the way in which ao large a sura of money was disbursed. Mr Holleston asked that the return be printed. Having glanced at the return, he felt that the House must admit it was one that required serious consideration. To his mind it was perfectly alarming. (The hon. gentleman proceeded to read out and comment upon the items, specifying a number of cases in which large sums of borrowed money that ought to be spent on public works and immigration had been spent in negotiations regarding certain Native lands.) Some of these transactions had been with a member of the House, aud although these transaction 8 might not come within the letter of the law, he was certain that they were contrary to the very spirit of our in« stitutions. Then, speaking of the Upper House, it was wrll-kuowu that several mem* bers of that House wore interested in the swamp purchase in the Waikato. It ap« peared to him it was time the Legislature came to some understanding upon the question. He hoped when the Native Minister ro3c he would explain whether the claims referred to in the return were based on legal status or not.

Mr Buckland male a personal explanation, having been referred to by the previous speaker, with regard to land transactions

with the General .Government. Some, yean ago he ascertained that gold exitted in a certain block ni land owned by the Natives n Waikato. He took his blankets and tools and prospected it for himself. He found gold there, and, certain it would one day become a goldlield. he then succeeded iv leasing some 20,000 acres of it from the Natives at £55 a year— not a bad bargain. What did ho do ? he handed the whole of it over to the General Government, only getting his expenses. He stipulated, however, that if any reward was paid for the discovery of gold there, he should receive it. There were two other blocks of land he purchased from the Natives, one of thirteen thousand acres, which he sold to Government for 2s per acre, barely covering hia expenses, and another valuable block ho had also sold them without making any profit, and all he wanted was to see the land settled.

Sir Donald M'Leau said the Government, in accordance with their proper duty, had stepped in and acquired the right of preemption of Native lands. No doubt there were inapy people who would prefer to see individuals be enabled to acquire lands from Natives. He could assure the House that the work of purchasing lands by the Government in the North Island was the making of that island, and had that not been done the work of settlement could not have been advanced except in a very straggling fashion. The Government had only acted in accordance with the desire of the House in acquiring those lands, and did it as to them seamed best. When, therefore, acquiring large blocks of land, they found Europeans having claims, not perhaps always lethal so much as equitable, it was absolutely necessary to come to some understanding before they were able to dispossess them. They were absolutely bound to act as they did or peril the future prosperity of the whole North Island. He could assure the House that nothing but the very hardest dealings had characterised the acquisition of these blocks. They had studied their very beat to o.irry oat the policy of the House in regard to public works and the placing of people upon the laud. The Government would lay the very fullest information possible upon every transaction mentioned in the return, aid he had no doubt whatever that now and iv the future it would be found that they had acted to the best advantage under the circumstance*. Mr Thomson thought a committee of the House should be appointed to re-investigate the transactions winch took place with the member for Franklyn. Sir George Grey was not satisfied that a full explanation had been given. The Native M{ lister told them they acted in the interest of the small farmers, but was the leasing of 20,000 acres at the head of Wangauui plains to one person acting in the interest of small settlers ? or was parting with the Waikato swamp land that should have been sacred, having been won by the blood of their fellow-men, to Russell aud others looking j after the interests of small farmers ? Where Government purchased large blocks of land with private rights attached, those rights should be scrupulously respected and liberally paid for. But these claims should be dealt with in public Court ; not by an individual in » room. The whole system of dealing with the Native lands was most pernicious. ' There was no check whatever. According to the Constitution Act, the Superintendents were the persons to make these purchases. It would be a system of double check. He thought the Government should make a full statement to the House at some future time regarding every pound of the immense sum of money which had disappeared. With regard to the explanation of the member for Franklyn, he believed that that was entirely aatifactory, though it would have been far more satisfactory if the transfer had been made through a Court of Law. Sir Donald M'Lean moved— "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the sale of the Piako Waikato Swamp to Thomas Russell and others ; the Committee to consist of Mess» Bryce, Cufchbertaon, Sir George Grey, Messrs Jackson, Hunter, Macandrey, Ormond, Captain Kenny, Reeves, and the mover. Sir George Grey wished that his name be withdrawn from the Committee. He pointed out that the present motion did not meet what he required. He wished the whole question to be raised as to the Government breaking certain Orders in Council, and of their intention to issue subsequent Orders in Council to legalise their former illegal act. The honourable gentleman recited an instance of the irregular manner in which Government dealt with Native lands. One gentleman having come down to Wellington to see the Government about a certain block of land and rights to the timber, and he ' wrote a letter to the Government, enclosing a copy of the reply the Government were to send him. He wanted the whole circumstances of the case. Mr Reevea asked that his name should be left oat of the Committee. It was a perfect farce in construction. He would not impute against the honour of the gentlemen composing the Committee ; but there were what we might call three Ministers and five staunch Government supporters, against three of the Opposition ; and after the point of enquiry had been made a want of confidence motion, he declined to sit upon the Committee where he was so outvoted. The House rose at 5.30.

August 26th. The New Zealand Presbyterian Church Bill was read a second time. The House went into committee on the Taranaki Waste Lands Act Amendment Bill. The clause enabling land to be reserved for education purposes was opposed by Mr G. M'Lean on the ground that it was locking up blocks of land from settlement. If they wished to endow education let them sell the land and invest the money as in endowment. Mr Rolleston considered tha* the setting apart of lands in Canterbury for educational purposes had been the salvation of the Province. They were occupied by a fine tenantry. Mr Atkinson said the Government would support the Bill, because he thought it was right to make provision for education. An amendment was proposed to prevent I educational reserves being leased at r>er acre, and to compel the lew to bo sold by auction ,

for a certain sum down. This, w.aa lost _by_ 25 to 15. The Bill was then passed. The Oamaru Water Works Bill was read a second time. Mr Ward moved the second reading of the Blenheim Election of Mayors Bill, the object being to allow ratepayers to ek-cfc a Mayor independent of the Council. Mr Curtis suggested that a general Bill should be introduced enabling the ratepayers of all towns coming under the Municipal Corporation Act to elect their mayors by the vote of the ratepayers. The Bill was read a second time, upon the understanding that it would be amended so aa to enable fcuoh alterations to be iatro- I ducsd as to make the Bill apply to all the municipalities desiring their mayors to be elected by the ratepayers. On the committal of the Goldfields Act Amendment Bill, No 1, Mr T. L. Shepherd explained the action he had taken to secure this Bill in order to further the interests of the miners, and referred to the mischievous opposition any measure introduced by him had received for years back ; aud, with regard to this measure even faise telegram? had been sent to Otago with the object of depriving him of the credit justly due to him. He cared little for that if the position of the miners was improved. The Bill was passed. On the Plans of Towns Regulation Bill in committee, considerable discussion took place on the question of whether the Bill shuuld be amended so as to deal with towns laid off on private lands as well as Crown lands, but owing to the strong objections raised the Bill was passed as applying to Crown lands only. The Goldfields Act Amendment Bill, No. 2, was committed. Considerable discussion arose, Sir Donald M'Lean, Mr Reid, and others, holding that the limit to be allowed to be taken up by gold miners should not exceed 200 acres. The clause enabling diggers to take up 320 acres was negatived ou a division by 16 to 9, and struck out accordingly. Mr Mervyn then abandoned the Bill, which went through Committee, and was reported with amendments. On the third reading being proposed, Mr Mervyn protested, as he said he intended to move for a re-committal of the Bill, in order to get the clause reinserted. There were enough gentlemen to carry the clause, bur, unfortunately, they were not in their places then. A division was taken, and the Bill passed by 10 to 14. The following Bills were read a third time, and passed :— Otago Waste Lands Act, 1872, Amendment Bill ; Campbelltown Athenaeum Bill ; Auckland Institute Bill. The House adjourned at 1.15 a.m.

In the House of Representatives, &t 2.30 to.day, The Auckland Improvement Amendment Bill passed. Mr Stout took the oath and his seat. Sir Donald M'Lean gave notice to more for leave to introduce a Bill placing confiscated lands under' the ordinary administration of waste lands. A message was ordered to be sent to the Upper House asking the Hon. Henry Russell to give evidence before the Waste Lauds Committee. Mr T. L. Shepherd asked, without notice, whether the votes proposed by Provincial Councils will be capable of being expended as usuaL The Treasurer replied that the whole of the votes now taken by the Provincial Councils, and for which funds have been provided, will be carried out as proposed by the Provincial Councils. No sums of money will be subtracted from these votes by the Government proposals. Mr Bunny moved, without notice, that the House be adjourned, in order that a debate might be taken upon certain remarks made by the Treasurer last evening, when speaking to the Wellington Special Settlements Amendment Act. _ The Treasurer said that he endeavoured in vain to obtain some information as to certain vouchers, the payment of which was authorised by the Superintendent, tde Auditor having informed him he could furnish no such information, and upon this the Treasurer had founded a charge of abuse of power. Mr Bunny then produced the vouchers, bearing the Auditor's signature, arid stated that, if it had not been for the Treasurer's incorrect and damaging statements the previous evening, the Bill would have been thrown out as desired. Mr Fitzherberb commented upon the conduct of the Treasurer with considerable severity for not having ascertained the truth of the charge before making it. In the course of his remarks, he told the Treasurer these side winks would have no effect in warding off the several grave enquiries now hanging over Ministers. There was no doubt accusations had been levelled at Ministers from all round the House, and he could assure the honourable member many more grave ones would yet be made. Messrs Hunter and Pearce both spoke to the point, and said the Treasurer had thrown out imputations against the Provin* cial Government that were quite unfounded and uncalled-for, and they supported the allegations of the members for the Hutt and Wairarapa. Mr Rolleston asked the Speaker, what was the best course to pursue, in order to obtain access to the papers regarding the WardChapman Enquiry ? The Speaker was understood to say the best course would be to hold a conference with the other House regarding the disposal of the papers laid before the joint Committee of Enquiry.