PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Otago Witness, Issue 310, 7 November 1857, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Friday, October 30, 1857. The House resumed at 5 o'clock. Dr. Williams gave notice that he would move that the correspondence between Mr. Ligar and the Waste Land Board be laid on the table. . The Provincial Solicitor, in answer to Mr. Burns' questions: — 1. Has the office of Crown Commissioner been filled up ? If so, who has been appointed ? A. The office has been filled up. Mr. Cutten has been appointed. 2. How many members of the Executive were present at such meeting? and were they unanimous ? A. All the members of the Executive were present. They were not unanimous : I dissented. 3. Did Mr. Cargill attend the meeting at which the appointment was made 1 and how many other meetings did Mr. Cargill attend? A. Mr. Cargill attended the meeting of the Executive at which the appointment was -made, which was the only meeting Mr. Cargill attended. The Provincial Secretary moved that the House meet to hold evening sittings at 5 o'clock. Agreed to. The Provincial Secretary, in moving for the consideration of the reply to his Honor's speech, remarked, that no objection could be offered to that part of the speech drawn up by the Executive, as it had been drawu up with the view of causing as little discussion as possible. He moved, " That the report of the committee appointed to draw up a reply to his Honor's address be adopted." Seconded by Mr. Young. Dr. Williams felt great difficulty in rising to move an amendment to the motion, as he had not consulted any member of the House on the subject. The system adopted by the Superintendent appeared to him more like despotic than responsible government. If the Executive were to exercise no control over the public acts of the Superintendent, then there existed no occasion whatever for a ministry. He decidedly objected to the reply to the address being adopted, and looked upon the address as being an insult to :he Honse, in recommending Mr. Cutten to the consideration of the Council as a fit person to fill the office of Crown Commissioner, whilst at the same time Mr. Cutten had been appointed to the office. He had no objection to Mr. Cutten holding such an appointment; on the contrary, he consideied Mr. Cutten fully qualified for the situation. He proposed the following amendment : — "That it is the opinion of this Council that unless his Honor the Superintendent withdraws the first part of his speech delivered on Wednesday last, the Council cannot agree to the answer to it proposed by the committee appointed to draw up the same." Seconded by Mr. Burns. Mr. licNNiu thought the House should take notice of the whole or none of his Honor's address. He could not see how his Honor should come into the House and deliver such an address without its being taken notice of; and unless his Honor withdrew the unanswered, or vather the unanswerable, part of the address, he (Mr. Rennie) would support the amendment. Mr. Cargill contended that his Honor was quite justified in expressing his opinions to the House ; and ha was surprised to see such an amendment brought before the House by a supporter of the Government. The whole matter complained of was, that his Honor had made an extraordinary speech. Well, since the last session of ihat Council, extraordinary circumstances had occurred ; the government of the Province had been in the hands of two extreme parties, the then majority now being a minority. The language of the present majority was, " Our opinions have prevailed," and a cry of treason had been raised by the minority. He therefore hoped that the views expressed by the Superintendent would be considered as his own, and the Superintendent, being the elected of the people, could not mean anything disrespectful in coming forward and explaining those views to the House. Mr. Martin did not consider that the remarks of the last speaker threw any light on the subject ; and unless his Honor made some explanation, he would certainly consider it as a mark of disrespect to the Council by his Honor, in recommending Mr. Cutten to the Commissionership, whilst at the s.ame timo that gentleman had been appointed to the office. Mr. Hepburn concurred in the remarks of the previous speaker. The Provincial Solicitor said that two questions had aiisen during the discussion, namely, — Was the Superintendent warranted in delivering such a speech without consulting his Executive ? and, Should the reply take notice of that part of liis Honor's address which was not drawn up by his Executive ? He thought that his Honor was not ■warranted in delivering the first part of the address, and that the House would pursue a much more dignified course by taking no notice whatever of that part of the address, and thus give his Honor a silent and more effective rebuke. Some separate motion might be brought forward on the subject ; but if the House rejected the reply of the committee, it by that means passed a vote of censure on the Executive. Dr. Purdie entirely disapproved of the conduct of his Honor, and would therefore support the amendment. The Provincial Secretary, in reply, said he agreed with the view of the subject taken by the Provincial Solicitor, and thought that the Council should ieply only to the address of his Honor which had been prepared by his Executive. The other speech should be looked upon as a private opinion of the Superintendent ; and as it was one which did not at all affect the policy of the Executive, it was not necessary to take any notice of it. He was glad to see that the idea of responsible government had dawned upon many of the members of the House who had been its most determined opponents, though they had somewhat strange views upon the subject. Thus, one member wanted to know what went on in the Executive, whilst he ought to know that the proceedings of that body were not public. Responsible government was not any given form of government. It was impossible, under the existing Constitution, that they could carry out the principle to the extent to which it was carried out in the home country. Sir Robert Peel on one occasion had resigned because one of the ladies of Her Majesty's bedchamber had been appointed without his consent.

The Queen had no right to express any public opinion without the consent of her Ministry. They" could not carry out the principle in Otago to that extent ; and although he objected to the Superintendent delivering an address as he had done, he must point out to those members supporting the Government, that if the amendment were carried, it would necessitate the resignation of the Executive. The address might be adopted, and a motion to the same effect as the amendment might be proposed and carried, without being a censure upon the Government ; but if the amendment were carried as an ■amendment upon the original motion, the Executive must resign. Dr. Williams wished to withdraw the amendment, but leave was not granted. The amendment, on being put, was lost by a majority of I. Ayes, 7. Noes, 8. Williams Cargill Shaw Cutten Hepburn Young Burns M'Glashan Purdie Mansford Martin Rennie Anderson Kilgour Stevenson. Mr. Rennie gave notice that at the next sitting he would move, " That this Council thoroughly disapproves of his Honor the Superintendent delivering an address to the Council without the concurrence of his Executive." The House adjourned till Monday, November 2. The House met at 1 o'clock. Several notices of motions having been given, Dr. Williams moved the consideration of the Memorial from the settlers of the Murihiku district, and proceeded to point out some of the many causes of complaintwhinh the memorialists had against the Waste Land Board. In the first place unsurveyed lands had been sold for occupation, and parties had commenced to improve their land without knowing whether they were located on their own land or not. Again, parties had applied for runs with the intention of stocking them, and on their arrival with their stock, they found that the runs had been given to other applicants. Cases could be proved of applicants having been favoured by the Board, in allowing their applications to remain open for periods of from 12 to 18 months. The Board had broken ~ faith with the settlers, and violated any vested rights placed in it by them. With regard to the lands set aside for occupation in blocks of 2000 acres, no less than 12 persons held stocked runs in that district. Then there was the large sum of money which had been expended by the Board in mak- | ing what appeared to him a most unwarrantable appointment of an officer, with a salary of £965. He would move that a committee, consisting of Messrs. Harris, Hepburn, Burns, Anderson, Martin, and the mover, be appointed to enquire into the workings of the Waste Land Board, and report to I the House. Agreed to. Dr. Williams moved that an address be present- | ed to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that ! the correspondence between his Honor and Mr. Ligar, also between Mr. Ligar and the Waste Land Board, be laid on the table. Mr. Anderson was appointed chairman of committees. The House went into committee on the Appropriation Bill 1856-57. The 4th clause was struck out. The House resumed, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday. The Provincial Solicitor, on moving the second reading of the Licensing Bill, stated that the bill was not framed with the intention of creating a source of revenue, but to put down the present evil of illicit grog selling so prevalent in the settlement. Mr. Caugill thought the imposition of high duties was not the method of obtaining the end. Dr. Williams objected to the bill, as it did not meet the exigencies of the case. Mr. Young regretted the prevalence of drunkenness in Dunedin, and thought that by imposing a license on all dealers in intoxicating liquors, and placing the granting of such licenses under the jurisdiction of the Justices, would in a great measure tend to put down the evil. Dr. Puiidie was glad to see that there was a desire on the part of the Executive to put down the evil complained of, but in his opinion taxation would not effect the object ; he would recommend that every member of the House should abstain from intoxicating liquors, and he had no doubt their example would be followed by others. Mr. Ktlgoi'r thought that imposing a license fee of £20 or £30 would in a great measure remedy the present evasion of the law practised by storekeepers, who, he alleged, were all in the same box. Mr. Rennik said that no legislative enactment would affect the consumption of spirits, but that if the hon. members of that House would set the example of not drinking or tastiug ale or spirits themselves, the example of such an honourable body would have a telling effect on the Province, The Provincial Solicitor pointed out the system of licensing in America, where innkeepers paid a heavy license fee, the effect of which was, that a more select class of publicans were to be found there than in any other country. He could wish to see a check put upon the evil of drunkenness in Dunedin, where the high rate of wages was a great temptation to the labouring classes to indulge in it to excess. The licensed victuallers had a duty imposed upon them for retailing grog, and he could not see why the dealers who sold two gallons and upwards should not also have a duty imposed upon them. The bill narrowly escaped being thrown out, the second reading being carried by the Speaker's casting vcte. It was moved that the House go into committee on the bill in the evening. The Local Waste Land Board Office Bill was read a second time, and the House went into committee on the bill. Mr. Macandrew understood that the appointment of an officer for Invercargill had already been made ; he therefore could not see the necessity for the bill. The Provincial Solicitor explained that the bill did not refer chiefly to the appointment of officers, but to empower the Superintendent to open local offices. The mere appointment of an officer would not facilitate the business, as any application for land which might be made at the office at Invercargill was liable to be made at the office at Dunedin on the same day. The object of the bill was, that all applications for lands in a particular district must be made at the office for such district. * The office would be under the supervision of Jth'e Waste Land Board. ' The bill was amended. The House resumed, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time-Gj* Wednesday. • C-^"'-On the motion of Mr. Anderson, the IlOjise adjourned till s o'clock. ' Evening Sitting. "'" ' -i- "•- Mr. Hepburn asked the Executive whether they .intended to renew the fence round the Cemetery, and when? He did noi know whether. that was the proper quarter to enquire at or not,but it was revolting to the feelings of people who had

friends, interred. there to see cattle grazing in the cemetery. ,<■ The Provincial ' Secretary, in reply, stated that the Executive had no power to expend monies for any other purposes than those 'for which the ' money was voted by the Council. Mr. Cargill moved that a letter from the Town Board, which contained a statement of the expenditure of £1000 voted by the Council, be laid on the table. , The House went into committee on the Licensing Bill. Considerable discussion arose on this bill, and amendments were proposed which threatened to alter its provisions very materially ; ultimately a resolution was adopted, to the effect that 'all dealers should pay a license, but that there should be no restriction as to quantity. The House adjourned till Tuesday, November 3. The House met at 1 o'clock. Mr! Lambert took his seat for the Eastern District. Dr. Williams presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Dunedin, praying that a fire engine might be provided for the use of the town. He also laid on the table a Memorial from the General Board of Road Trustees. Dr. Williams moved for a suspension of the Standing Orders for the purpose of enabling him to propose — That a Committee be appointed, consisting of Messrs. Harris, Macandrew, Young, and the mover, to draw up an address to A. C. Strode, Esq., on his leaving this colony for England, after so many years spent in the service of the public. Agreed to. The Provincial Secretary gave several notices of motion, and laid on the table the correspondence on the subject of Emigration. Mr. Rennie moved the following resolution :—: — " That this Council thoroughly disapproves of his Honor the Superintendent delivering an address to the Council without the concurrence of his Executive." In doing so, he thought, on more mature deliberation, that the resolution was not expressed in sufficiently strong terms, as looking at the nature of that address, and the matters referred to therein, he considered it insulting to the House. Mr. Harris seconded the resolution. Mr. J. Cargill said he was not aware whether the hon. member who had placed this motion before the Council had seen the full consequences of the adoption of it. He believed the bon. members would rarely be called upon to give a more important vote. It in fact clenched that form of Responsible Government under which they were at present acting. It was the interpretation clause of the Executive Ordinance. It declared emphatically, for the information of the present and all future Superintendents, what was the view taken of that Ordinance by that Council — that the Superintendent could do no wrong, because for all Executive acts the Provincial Council held the Executive Council solely responsible, and that it was improper in the Superintendent in any circumstances to address the Council in other words than those put into his mouth by the Executive. He thought it was the duty of every member to speak out on that occasion and declare his satisfaction or otherwise with the present form of government. His own opinion was, while fully agreeing to the abstract principle of Responsible Government, that in our present circumstances all Executive duties could and ought to be performed by the Superintendent, aided by an Executive say of the heads of Departments, joined to several members named by the Council, but whose advice he would not be absolutely bound to follow, thereby making the Superintendent directly responsible, not only for Executive acts, but for the palatability of the bills introduced into the Council ; so that if the business brought before it as a whole was not acceptable, or his Executive acts such as not to meet their approval, they could then with much weight call upon the Governor to give effect to a resolution of a majority of the Council^ requesting a new election of a Superintendent, as provided for by the Constitution Act. Such a form of government would in his opinion be economical and perfectly sufficient for our present wants. If, on the other hand, that resolution was passed, and the Council thereby sanctioned the present form of government, then let them look to what must be the natural consequences. It would involve the creation of a new office, that of a paid Secretary, whose whole time would be required for the discharge of the duties of that office. It was absurd to suppose that the gentleman holding the appointment of Commissioner of Crown Lands or Treasurer, or Principal Surveyor, could satisfactorily perform the duties ; for the public, more especially parties coming from a distance, had a right to demand that those gentlemen should be found in their offices at all business hours. Seeing, then, the importance and responsibility of the office of Secretary, the salary should be equal to or greater than that of the Superintendent. In fact, the office of Superintendent might be dispensed with, and signatures to documents be done by the Speaker, or, better still, by the Seal of the Province being created Superintendent, which would not involve any salary. The practical effect of that change would be, that the head of the Provincial Government would be chosen by the Council, instead of by the whole constituency of the Province. He would call the attention cf the mover of the resolution to a matter of fair play. The resolution referred to a certain act of the Superintendent, in which he took upon himself the responsibility, and wished to explain to the Council the reasons which led to a change in the Executive during the recess. Was it fair to hold the Superintendent responsible for certain acts, and at the same time refuse him the means of explanation ? In order to put the matter in a clear light before the public, the hon. member was bound to add to the resolution the reason of enjoining silence, namely, because by law the Superintendent could not do anything without the advice and consent of his Executive. Now, in that view he (Mr. Cargill) had the concurrence of the Provincial Solicitor, who had given a law opinion on the subject. His words were, " that any act done by the Superintendent without the advice and consent of his Executive was simply null and void." Now one of two conclusions must be drawn from that opinion— either that the public had been misled, and the Superintendent blamed for certain acts for which the late Executive were wholly and solely responsible, or that the Superintendent had broken the law, the present Executive was a sham, and that their holding office, and all their acts in office, were simply null and void. He left the hon. gentlemen on the horns of that dilemma. He could not sufficiently reprobate the conduct of hon. members of the late and present Executive, who, with the words Responsible Government on their lips, bad neglected one of their most important duties to the Council. They could notlmt be aware that the first thing done by responsible ministers on a change of Government taking {lace, was, before any business was entered into, to explain all the circumstances connected with the change, and the relation in which they stood to the head of the Government,, and also what advice was given to the Superintendent by the late Executive in the matter. This the Council had a right to demand before they were called upon to sanction measures which were to be left in their hands to execute during the recess. It' was because the members of the Executive had shrunk from explanation, while the Superintendent

did offer to explain, that he could not agree to the resolution. The Provincial Solicitor said the Executive felt great respect for their venerable Superintendent, yet they would not shrink from their public duties. That the Superintendent had acted illegally was put beyond a doubt by the 10th clause of the Executive Ordinance, but in how far he had violated the law was a matter for consideration; one thing was certain, that if he had done so, it was under extenuating circumstances. Some jumble pf opinion existed regarding responsible government. The hon. member for the north had spoken of his Honor's ministers, while really they were his advisers, not his ministers. Her Majesty's ministers were the actors, but the Executive of this Province were the administrators, whose consent W3S necessary to legalize the acts of the Superintendent, who was not a nominee of the Crown, but elected by the people. [The hon. member here read some correspondence which passed between him and the Superintertdiht on the subject of responsible government.] ''^fre much regretted the course pursued by his Honor, who, by his proceedings, had opposed the course which his Executive, had they been consulted, would have recommended. The House had already passed a vote, which had the effect of giving a silent rebuke to the Superintendent ; but he felt certain that his Honor had at heart the promoting of the best interests of the Province. The Provincial Secretary -would point out a few things wherein the Superintendent alone was responsible and bound to act by the instructions of the Governor. He could not give his assent to bills for raising money on debentures without the same being approved of by the Governor. He could not make the Executhe responsible, to the people ; and on looking at the effects of what had gone by, he was of opinion that the Superintendent should take no part in elections. Mr. Rennie, in reply, said that nothing had been adduced during the discussion to shake his views on the subject, and he hoped that the resolution would be carried. On a division of the house, there were for the motion, 13 ; against it, 1. The Provincial Secretary, in moving the second reading of the Town Land Sales Bill, said that the object of that bill was to enable parties who had located themselves on lands, which had subsequently been proclaimed into Townships, to purchase the same if desirable, at the upset price, without its being put up to auction. Dr. Williams gave notice that he would move that a new clause be introduced in the bill, extending the like privileges to religious bodies. The bill was read a second time, and the house went into committee on the bill Mr. Macandrew saw no. necessity for putting the power to sell such lands in the hands of the Council; he thought it should be left to the Superintendent and the Waste Land Board to deal in such matters. The Provincial Secretary did not consider it advisable to place more power in the hands of the Executive than was absolutely necessary ; the bill might confer vast powers over the lands in townships, and might lead to a system of jobbery, which by all means ought to be guarded against. The Provincial Solicitor said, that the bill had been framed to meet certain particular cases ; he instanced the case of the Resident Magistrate of the Bluff, who had erected a house on land which he could not at the time purchase. PI is colleague seemed very anxious to prevent jobbing, but he (the -Provincial Solicitor) scorned the term ; he had never, so far as he was aware of, seen the system of jobbing practised in any department with which he had to do. An 'amendment, placing the power in the hands of the Executive and the Waste Land Board to deal in such matters, was carried upon a division. The House resumed, and the bill was ordered to be read a third time on Thursday. The House adjourned till 5 o'clock. Evening Sitting. The Provincial Secretary moved, "That a list of allotments of land withdrawn from sale by his Honor the Superintendent with the consent of the Executive Council, be approved of.'» Agreed to. The Report of the commitee appointed to draw up an address to Mr. Strode was read. Mr. Cargill objected to the Report being adopted, on the ground that it was unusual to present such an address to any but Royalty, or the representatives of Royalty. He respected Mr. Strode as an individual, and did not object to a demonstration being made to that gentleman ; but by adopting such an address as that before the House to a servant of the public, it would in his opinion be compromising the dignity of the House. Dr. Purdie said that he had entered cordially into the address, but confessed that it had not appeared to him in its present form ; he could wish that it had been done in another form. As many of the members were young in the important duties which devolved upon them, they should carefully avoid precedents. The Provincial Secretary concurred in the t remarks of Mr. Cargill. Dr. Willams in reply said that precedents were of every day occurrence in London and Bristol where the corporations, much more important bodies than that Council, presented addresses to their servants, but he would rather withdraw the motion than have a split on it. The House divided on the motion — Noes, 8; Ayes, 8. The motion was carried by the Speaker's casting vote. On the motion of the Provincial Secretary, the Provincial Council Enlargement Bill was' read a second time, and the House went into commitee on the Bill. Mr. Macandrew thought the bill ought to be referred to a select committee to draw up a more equitable table for representation in the Provincial . Council. The town of Port Chalmers with 27 Electors returned I member. Were Port Chalmers to be made the basis, the Eastern District was entitled to 4 members, Western 4, Central 4, and Tokomairiro 2. The Provincial Secretary said it was impossible to arrive at anything like a definite adjustment of representation if the number of electors in the district were to be taken. Many of the electors in some cases had votes in no less than six districts, but taking the actual settlers within districts the bill would be found to be as fair as it was possible to arrive at for the present; at the dissolution of the present Council the representation would be re-adjusted. Mr. M acakdbew moved that Murihiku be divided into two districts, tb be called the Eastern a&d'*tseptern Districts, Wallace County. ~\' The Provincial Secretary rather thamiepordize the bill, would throw out the aditionalcijnaember for the northern district. The main obje*t> in framing the bill was to have the south represented : the settlers there were rather turbulent, and looked upon themselves as being hardly dealt with. by the Government; it was therefore desirable that they should be represented in the Provincial Council. • Mr. Lambert said that the south ought to be represented but that turbulence was a very bad ground for legislation. Mr. Carqilli thought the adjustment of there-, ■'%■'"

presentation ought to be left to the Government, who, he thought, were the best arithmeticians; he did not like that system log-rolling practised by some hon. members. Mr. Macandrew begged to repudiate the term, as he did not know what was implied by log-roll-ing. Mr. Macandhew's amendment was lost by a majority'of 8. Mr. Cargill would move, as a Question ofab- , stract justice, that the Tokomairiro have two members. Seconded by Mr. Macandrew. The amendment, on being put to the Tote, was lost — Ayes, 7 ; Noes, 9. The House resumed and the bill was ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday. The Provincial Solicitor moved the second reading of the Sheep Ordinance Amendment Bill. The bill had been framed on the recommendation oi^e Sheep inspectors with a view to promote the interests of the flockowners with regard to the buisting of sheep. The various clauses in the bill were those which had been expunged in the Ordinance of last session. . The bill was read a second time and the House resolved itself into committee, on the bill. After considerable discussion, the period for marking lambs as proposed in the Bill, being 3 ■ months, was amended to 4 months. The Bth clause was struck out. The House resumed, and the Provincial Secretary tnoved that the bill be re-committed to-morrow. Agreed to. The Provincial Secretary, in moving that the House resolve itself jnto a committee of supplies, stated that the estimated receipts for the current year had been put down at the actual receipts for the past year. The Government had thought it advisable to put those calculations upon a safe basis, but they fully anticipated that the actual revenue would far exceed the amount stated in the Estimates. On the other side the proposed expenditure might appear to some members to be great, but the Government had placed a considerable sum on the Estimates for public works ; they thought that course necessary, inasmuch as the Council having at its last session voted the. sum of £20,000 for Immigration, for the expenditure of which sum contracts had been entered into, it was desirable that there should be a sufficient sum at the disposal of the Government for public works, so that in the event of a great influx of population they would be in a position to afford employment, and thus counteract the temptation to leave the Province to go to Nelson or elsewhere. With reference to those items, comprising the salaries of public officers, the Government intended to exercise economy, and there were only a few cases of proposed rise where the present rate was such as to make it obvious that the public were in danger of loosing ths services of valuable public servants. Under this head there was a new item of £H)Q for a Civil Engineer. The Government intended to appoint Mr. Thomson, the Chief Surveyor, to that office ; he was eminently qualified to undertake the duties of the office, having the highest testimonials from fie East India Company, in whose service he had he'd a high position. Seeing that extensive public works were to be undertaken, the Government were desirous of having them surveyed and planned, as that there would be no danger of making errors, but that every Board might proceed | with safety, by having the advice and assistance of | a gentleman whose equal they could not obtain. The Government contemplated directing their especial attention to the laying off of main lines of roads throughout the country. The charge of chat work was to be left in the hands of the Road Board within the surveyed districts, but in the northern and southern portions of the Province it was proposed to entrust that duty to Mr. Thomson. The Provincial Secretary illustrated the necessity of this important work being at once set about to avoid creating further claims for compensation, which had become a monstrous evil. One item of importance which might appear to be extravagant was a sum of £2000 for the erection of a gaol in Dunedin; the necessity of this work was self-evi-dent ; the present gaol was totally unfit for the purposes of a prison. It was a fact, that upon the Resident Magistrate's remarking upon the nonobservance of the prison lules the gaoler had said that unless he indulged the prisoners they would not stop. He (the Provincial Secretary) had heard the voluntary principle advocated in many matters, but he believed in its application to imprisonment Otago stood alone. The inconvenience arising from the want of a proper gaol had not been felt in Otago ; but with a large influx of population, it was impossible that matters could go on in the present state. The Government therefore proposed to put up a building that would suit the wants of the place for years. A large sum appeared upon the Estimates for education, but the greater part of it was a re- vote of the sum which had been voted by the Council at the last session, but had not been expended. An item of £10,000 for immigration was in the same position. An item of £4000 was for the payment of the interest of the New Zealand Company's debt. A bonus of j£2ooo for the establishment of Steam Communication was also a revote of a sum placed on the Estimates of the previous year. The Provincial Secretary remaiked on the necessity of this provision, and explained that the present Government had, on first coming into office, accepted an offer from the Superintendent of Wellington to put on a steamer to convey the mails to Canterbury and Otago, the latter paying the sum of £1000 per annum. That arrangement had failed in consequence of the course taken by the Province of Canterbury. A bonus of £siO for the discovery of an available Gold Field was placed on the Estimates. The Government were anxious to set at lest the question whether or not there existed an available gold field in the Province, and the course they were pursuing was the' only one which would have that effect. The whole of the proposed expenditure amounted in round numbers to £46,000, and the receipts were set down at £16,000 ; but the Government would not make the expenditure unless they saw how they were to provide -4he necessa:y funds. They had a power to Borrow jSSO,OOO under the Oidinance of last year; they had not as yet been under the necessity of making uakof that power; the current redeipts had met all thßwfetpenditure, and from the growing prosperity of <*Ke Province, they fully anticipated that to a great extent the ordinary receipts would supply the wants of the Government; but should it not, they were now in the fortunate position of having the whole of the land funds at their disposal, so that were they under the necessity of borrowing, they cou'd offer such security as would insure them obtaining loans on the most advantageous terms.

Mr. Lambert said, that he was astonished the Government had not taken the hint which was dropt by Mr. Cargill, and voluntarily given the House an explanation of the causes which had led to a change in, the Government. The offices of Provincial Secretary and Crown Land Commissioner were held by one individual, a most unheard-of thing, that the two most important situations in the Province should be filled by one and the same person. On looking over the Estimates he saw an item of £250 put down as the salary of Provincial Secretary, and he would like to know, whether it was intended that that gentleman, by holding the two appointments, should also receive the two salaries. He would move — That it is the opinion of this Council that an explanation of the late change in the Government should be given previous to its going into committee on the Supplies The Provikcial Secretary said, that he had omitted to notice to the House that the bill had been in the hands of the printer previous to his being appointed Crown Commissioner, but that it was not the intention to pay the Provincial Secretary so long as one individual held the two appointments. The House adjourned till Wednesday, November 4. The House met at 1 o'clock. Mr. Kilgour presented a Petition from the Town Board respecting the Municipal Estates Bill. Mr Rennie presented a Memorial from the Town Board with reference to certain improvements in the Town of Dunedin. A petition from Mr. John Barr the present lessee of the Molyneux Ferry praying for a remission of rent was presented. Could not be received. It was moved that the Town Land Sales Bill be re-committed. Mr. Cargill moved that a select committee, f» consist of the Speaker, Provincial Secretary, Provincial Solicitor, Dr. Purdie, and the mover, be appointed to enquire into the workings of the Executive Ordinance, and report thereon. In making this motion he (Mr. Cargill) was clearly of opinion that the law ought to be so plain that he who runs may read. The Provincial Solicitor held one view of the Ordinance, and the Provincial Secretary held another. One of those opinions was, that the Executive were not ministers but advisers ; they could not propound measures, they could only advise upon the measures of the Superintendent. He held that there were no rules laid down of what Responsible Government really consisted. The Constitution of New Zealand laid down no clear line of Government. A question had arisen whether the Superintendent should address the House; that question had been set at rest by the Council. Another quesI tion of law might arise ; the Superintendent signed all money warrants on behalf of the Governor; in such cases was it necessary to have the advice of his Executive ? He therefore considered the enquiry desirable. Dr. Williams seconded the motion. The Provincial Secretary could see no practical effect which would result from the enquiry; he could not in any way settle the question, as the conclusion which might be come to by the committee might not be adopted by the Council. He thought the House ought as far as possible to avoid appointing select committees, except in extreme cases, as ' it would lead to a protraction of the session. The Provincial Solicitor said, that Mr. Cargill had made reference to the legality of the Superintendent to express his views clearly and distinctly to the people, so that there might be no mistaking these views; and in the event of the subject being brought before the Council, it was then open for the Superintendent to express his views to his Executive. The motion was negatived. Mr. Cargill said he was surprised, as well as pleased, to see the change which had come over hon. members with regard to effecting a saving of time in the session. At the last session of the Council, the cry was too quick, too quick. (Hear, hear.) But now the cry was, we cannot have select committees, they occupy too much time, they must be dropt ; he considered it was very bad taste in those gentlemen resisting an inquiry wherein they themselves were concerned. The hon. member then, according to notice, moved for an explana ion fiom the Executive of the recent changes which had takea place in the Government; he thought an explanation ought to have been given without an enquiry being called for. The Provincial Secretary said, that had an entire change in the Executive taken place, then in all probability the explanation would have been voluntarily given, but the recent change was not an entire change ; however, so far as he himself was concerned, he had no objection to give the reasons. Those reasons were, the absence of one member of the Executive, and the resignation of another. The Superintendent 'had sent for him, requesting an interview, when the Superintendent informed him that he was desirous that he should take a seat in the Executive. He (Mr. Cutten) said, that unless the proposition was made with the advice and consent of the Executive, he could not accept a seat. His Honor's answer was, that Mr. Proudfoot was agreeable to the proposition that he (Mr. Cutten) should be appointed to the office of Provincial Secretary, with a salary of not exceeding £300. He consented to take a seat in the Executive if he were allowed to choose a colleague, and named Mr. Young as the gentleman he wished to take in along with him ; he also stated that he would not accept a salary until the Council met and voted it. An objection was offered to Mr. Young being his colleague. He then conferred with most of the gentlemen in town, who all declined to accept office. At last it was, agreed that he should take office along with Mr. Jones, who, it was believed, would be elected by some of the districts, but the arrangement having fallen through, there the matter rested. He was afterwards informed that the Provincial Solicitor would have no objection to Mr. Young taking a seat in the Executive. The proposals were renewed, and he (Mr. Cutten) accepted office. Mr. Young was at first very unwilling to take a seat, but ou representing to him that it was the only chance of forming a Government, he at last consented. So near as he could recollect, these were the circumstances which had led to the recent change. Mr. Young said he felt very unwilling to ac cept a seat in the Executive, but latterly consented. The Povincial Solicitor said he would explain a" few circumstances which preceded the change. Owing to the absence of Mr. Reynolds in England, Mr. Proudfoot and himself composed the Executive, and Mr. Proudfoot's declining state of health prevented him from attending to the duties of the office ; but on being informed by his Honor that a certain amount of responsibility would be attached to the office, Mr. Proudfoot became the more anxious to resign. It then became a matter for consideration as to who should be -called in. ■ Mr.- Cutten was suggested. He had no

objection to Mr. Cutten, and from what he knew of that gentleman he thought they might work harmoniously together without compromising their principles ; and after an interview with Mr. Cutten on the subject, these views were confirmed : but Mr. Cutten would not accept office unless he was allowed to bring in a colleague, and he named Mr. Young as the gentleman he wished to bring in along with him. He objected not to Mr. Young individually, but to his being dictated by Mr. Cutten. The overtures were here broken off; but afterwards, when Mr. Proudfoot signified his intention to resign, he (the Provincial Solicitor) agreed to the proposal made by Mr. Cutten, on the condition that Mr. Cargill would also accept a seat ; he understood that gentleman had been Gazetted, with his full knowledge of the appointment ; but on Mr. Cargill wishing to resign, he had pressed him to remain a member till the Council met. Mr. Cutten laid on the table a letter from the Superintendent to the Town Board, also the Church of England Cemetery Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time at the evening sitting. The Provincial Secretary, in moving the second reading of the Local Municipal Estates Bill, said that the bill was virtually passed by the Council of last session, but in consequence of two conflicting jurisdictions being set forth in the preamble, it was disallowed by the Governor.. He understood that some hon. members objected, to place these properties in the hands of the Town Board ; he would recommend that in all townships properties ought to be set aside for the endowment of Corporations to be a source of revenue for the construction of roads and other improvements in towns. The estate was not intended for the country, but for the town ; the very name given to the estate implied that such was the intention. It was not consistent that the town should assess itself for the purpose of making roads for the benefit of the country. An assessment had been levied last year of Is. in the £, which realized about £200, and the whole of that sum had been expended in making the principal street of the town of Dunedin passable for drays from the country. It was nothing but reasonable that some estate should be conceded to the town. The revenue arising from the sale of town lauds duriner last year was no less than £2,580— a very considerable sum to be contributed by so small a place ; he thetefore thought that the Town Board should have the property handed over to them, subject to the jurisdiction of the Council. Mr. Lambert decidedly objected to the municipal pi operties being vested in th"c Town Board or any other body — not that he was afraid that the properties would be misapplied, or the funds accruing from such properties devoted from their legitimate purposes, but he held that it was wrong in principle. ' True, the properties were at present of no great value, but it was no stretch of imagination to look forward to the time when they would be of immense value, and therefore ought to be retained in the hands of the Government. A time might come when Dunedin would cease to be the capital of ihis Province and sink into village insignificance, and the idea was simply ridiculous that these properties should be vested in the hands of a Corporation at the one end of the Province, while the capital might be at the other end : he would therefore oppose the bill. The Provincial Solicitor said that he considered it right to state that fewer bills from this Province had been disallowed than of any other Province in New Zealand, and he had no doubt that this bill, as brought into the House last session, would also have been allowed ; but certain objects also had been introduced which justified the Governor disallowing the bill; but the question was — Was the House pledged to give effect to its lesolution of last session ? One argument brought forward against the bill was, that Dunedin might sink into village insignificance; but give Dunedin that endowment, and it could never be a village. By putting a fair construction on the New Zealand Company's terms of purchase, that property belonged exclusively to the town of Dunedin, as the capital of the Province. But in whom the property should be vested was another question. One gentleman had indulged in the prospective idea of the capital being at the other end of the Province ; now there was a prospect of Dunedin attaining to considerable importance, and the time might come when it would have a Corporation and a Lord Mayor. Such an idea was no doubt rather speculative, but there was no foreseeing events. He was of opinion that the estate ought to be vested in the Superintendent, and placed under the administration of the Town Board; such a couise was necessary, considering the smallness of that body, and that public duties were often sacrificed to the promoting of private interests. He wished it to be distinctly understood that he in nowise disparaged that body, but thought that such a course would be a wholesome check to all public bodies, to know that there was another body behind them to see that they did not trespass their powers. Mr. Cargill said it was not often the Provincial Solicitor indulged in romance, but in the present case the House had to deal with a matter of fact : the question still remained unanswered — What was meant by Municipality ? He was of opinion that the term referred to the whole Province generally, and not to the town of Dunedin exclusively; if it referred to towns only, why not the town of Port Chalmers? But he was of opinion that the estate was set aside for the mutual interests of both town and country, and therefore thought that they ought to be vested in the Superintendent, and that the purposes to which the proceeds should be applied ought to be distinctly specified. Mr. Young said, that in his opinion the term Municipality could only apply in this case to the town of Dunedin ; the estate could not be for the benefit of the whole Province, and could not be devoted to purposes outside the Otago Block. Such a course of precedure would be an act of injustice. He could see no objection to the property being vested in the Town Board. The Town Board stood in the same position as the Provincial Council inasmuch as they are a body chosen by the people from among the people, and therefore under the jurisdiction of the people, and on that account not at all likely to abuse the trust reposed in them; and by placing the management of this' estate in their hands, it would be an inducement to really working men to become members of that Board. The Provincial Secretary said that he too£ no such views of the question of municipality as those entertained by Mr. Cargill. By vesting the property in the hands of the Superintendent, it would be necessary for the Provincial Council annually to vote the money derived from the estate,

and it would be most unjust that the Council could take away the proceeds and spend them in other parts of the Province. The bill did not give the Board unlimited control over the property. The bill was read a second time, and the House went jnto committee on the bill. Mr. Macandrew proposed that the words ' Town Board ' in the first clause be struck out, and the words ' Superintendent and his successors in office' be inserted ; he thought that the Town already had a most valuable property in the water frontages and the Town Belt, and looked forward to the time when that estate proposed to be handed over to the Town Board would become a considerable source of revenue. Such a property in Melbourne would be worth hundreds of thousands annually, and it was no great stretch to look forward to the time when even in Otago they would realize £5000 yearly. The Council would not be warranted in giving the exclusive administration of so valuable an estate to the Town Board; it ought to be in the hands of the Government; and now that the gentlemen in the Executive were paid for those things, they ought to see to the letting of that property and drawing the rents, which would be a more economical mode of procedure. Mr. Young would object to having the property placed in the hands of the Superintendent and instanced the corporation of Liverpool; that body had control over the Docks, and it was owing to the judicious administration of that body that Liverpool in a great measure owed her wealth ; he was the more inclined to give the control over the estate, as an hon. member had, on a particular occasion, expressed his willingness to smash that body. Mr. Lambert thought it very bad taste in the former speaker to introduce electioneering phrases in the House ; he objected to the. property being placed in the hands of the Town Board. The argument made use of in favour of so vesting the property was, that they were an elective body, and elected annually; now that was in his opinion one of the strongest reasons why they should not have the control over these properties ; it was by all means desirable to have an overruling power, to see that any works commenced by the Board should, on a change taking place in the Board, be carried out by their successors. The amendment having been put was carried by a majority of 1. The House adjourned till £ past 5. Evening Sitting. Mr. Stevenson presented a numerously signed petition from certain settlers in favour of immediate steps being taken to discover a renumerative gold field. Dr. Purdie, according to notice, moved—" That the Council resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, for the purpose of inquiring into the circumstances connected with the pledge given by his Honor the Superintendent to Mr. Ligar of the office of Chief Commissioner. Also to inquire into the reasons for his Honor's violation of that pledge, and of a similar pledge spontaneously given to the Waste Land Board regarding Mr. Ligar. Also to inquire regarding the appointment of Mr. Cutten to the Chief Commissionership, and, if necessary, to examine the members of the Waste Land Board." This was no question of party or finance, no question of the qualifications of the gentleman who had been appointed to the office of Crown Commissioner; the question was brought on the broad ground of principle, after reading the minute of loth October, he explained the circumstances of what had 1 passed between his Honor and the Waste Land Board. When Mr. Proudfoot, the late Crown Commissioner, was, in consequence of his declining state of health, unable to discharge the duties of his office, tho Waste Land Board, with the humdue intention of saving Mr. Proudfoot as much as possible, and with a view to avoid incurring expense, adjourned those meetings from day to day. Notwithstanding the gratuitous insults which had been offered to that body, all of which he repudiated, he would give an abstract statement of what his Honor said with regaid to what had passed between his Honor and Mr. Ligar. On the occasion of his Honor having been requested to confer with the Waste Land Board, he, after waiting with apparent impatience till the minute (now on tha table) was read, said — "Gentlemen, I think it is right to be plain with you : I am solemnly pledged to a gentleman, than whom I know no one moro fitted to fill the office. While at Auckland, I met with Mr. Ligar, and, judging from the experience which 1 had with regard to the health of Mr. Proudfoot, and having in view what ihe result in all probability would be, I thought it fortunate to meet with one in whose qualifications we could place implicit reliance. I offered that gentleman a temporary appointment, on the understanding that he should receive a permanent one as soon as an opportunity occurred. I consider it a most providential circumstance for this settlement in being ablo'to secure the services of so experienced a gentleman as Mr. Ligar. No further gone than this morning, several applications were made to me for the office, but I intend to refer the whole matter to the Council." It mattered not who had, or who had not, been appointed to the office; but nere the chief officer of this Province, wlio ought to set en example to the community, thus to violate the truth and break pledges, then he knew not what consequences it might lead to. The Provincial Secretary said he did not think any satisfactory reason had been brought forward by the hon. member why the House should go into Committee on that question. It appeared to him to be entirely a piece of personal and party spleen got up with a view to damage the private character of a gentleman who hud so long been the Superintendent of this Province, but which would have a far different result. It was brought forward under the sham of being a question of principle, to prove that His Honor had violated a pledge which did not affect the public in any way. He would make a (e\v remailis on the Waste Land Board. The manner in which the business of that Board bad been conducted was an utter violation of the Laud Regulations. They were a public body whose meetings ought to be open lo tho public. Those gentlemen, with great consideration for the proper administration of the land department, had ' resolved to do the dnties of Crown Commissioner without consulting the Executive. That Board was formed as a court of appeal from the decisions of the Commissioner. They were to be the judges in any question which might arise between lite Commissioner of Crown Lands and the public. They were clearly a public Board; but | whoever were present at any of its meeting!:, its proceedings were unknown to the press — -ami some of those proceedings were very erroneous to say the least of them. If His Honor had made a pledge to Mr. Ligar, be (the Provincial Secretary) would have used ull his influence to induce His Honor to break it; bot there was no evidence to shew that His Honor ever had made such a pledge, except indeed, the minutes of the Waste Land Board be considered as- evidence—part of- which miuutei, ■

they themselves had erased. The whole question was one which had for its object a personal and party motive. In the first place the Board held an illegal meeting, that is, a public Board held a private meeting, and sent a message to the Superintendent requesting an interview with His Honor for the purpose of then and there having Mr. Ligar appointed to the office of Crown Commissioner — one of the most important situations in the Province— and they got His Honor, without consulting his Executive, to promise the appointment to one of their own friends, which was a breach of the Executive Ordinance. (Cries of no, no.) What right linel they to request an interview with His Honor? Dr. Purdie said that His Honor was bound by a pledge which he made to Mr. Ligar. This Mr. Ligar seemed to be a great favourite with the Waste Land Board, and a surveyor, and on that ground alone he (the Provincial Secretary) would have opposed his appointment. Mr. .Ligar was appointed agent to travel to Australia with a salary of £600 a year, and this same Waste Laud Board had made a promise to appoint him Survnyor-General. How could those gentlemen create an office which was not provided for by the constitution of the country? The appointment was not approved of by His Honor, but the members of the Wasfp Land Board had assumed the functions of the Executive, and bad taken upon themselves the power to appoint Mr. Ligar without consulting His Honor upon the subject. He would now come to the subject of his own appointment : there were four applicants for the office, viz., Mr. .Ligar, Mr. Kettle, Mr. Grant, and himself, and the Executive had to decide betnem the qualifications of those gentlemen. He objected to Mr. Ligar because he was a surveyor. He would abstain from malring any remarks with regard to the other gentlemen, but, with all due modesty, he looked upon himself as being the better man. He would, if necessary, have appointed himself and taken the whole blame which might have been attached to the appointment. The questions put by Mr. Burns were put with a good deal of ingenuity, and no doubt would have a formidable appearance when iv print, but he could not help thinking that the questions put by that gentleman were not entirely his own. Mr. Cargill was extremely unwilling to take his seat in the Executive on the occasion of his (the Provincial Secretary's) appointment, and jt was only on the Provincial Solicitor insisting, that Mr. Oargill consented. He thought it beneath the dignity of the House that any such appointment should come before the Council which would only be introducing a bone of contention for hon. members to scramble after. He Ihought such a matter was for the Executive to deal with, and that was the reason why he wished the matter to be settled before the meeting of the Council. It was not; therefore, to be supposed that Mr. Cargill had come poat haste from the country for the express purpose of appointing a friend to office. The appointment would have been made whether Mr. CHrgill had been present or n<>t, for he (the Provincial Secretary) would not have scrupled to vote in his own ense had such a course been necessary ; and the Superintendent would have been perfectly justified in sanctioning such an appointment, seeing that he acted by the advice of his Executive. What object can be gained by the members of the Waste Laud Board in making this enquiry, is a mere matter of speculation which he would leave to the House. Tt was sufficient for them to know that be had been appointed, and that the bon. member who started the question had done, all he possibly could to damage the private credit of His Honor the Superintendent. Dr. Williams said that in his opinion the whole question was one of a malignant and party nature, got up' with a view to damage the character of -the Superintendent by a party who at one time had lauded the Superintendent with fulsome adulation. The Provincial Solicitor was sorry that the discussion had not taken place in Committee, in order to have allowed the Speaker, who was well acquainted with the circumstances of the case, to have taken part in the discussion. But a matter bad been started by his colleague, which it was necessary lie should lake notice of. With regard to the conference which His Honor bad with the Waste Land Board, be (the Provincial Solicitor) was present, but did not know anything of a direct pledge being given to Mr. Ligar by His Honor Great hopes •> ere entertained of Mr. Ligar's success at the time he wns appointed agent for the sale of 2000-acra blocks, and the appointment of Sur-veyor-General was to have reference only to -that part of the couu try, and not in any way to interfere with Mr. Thomson. The promise was made to Air. Ligar in the event of his being successful and as an inducement to exertion on his part. He was told that if successful, certain duties would devolve upon him. Mr. Proudfoot had some idea that Mr. Ligar would be a suitable person as his successor. At the meeting of the Executive for considering the appointment he (the Provincial Solicitor) insisted that Mr. Cargill should be present, and take a part in the responsibility of the appointment. He (the Provincial Solicitor) bad the idea, right or urong, that the Crown Comrois sloner ought to be a professional man ; perhaps he was wrong in that idea — very likely he was. There was another reason for insisting that Mr. Cargill should be present, that was, to save his colleague from proposing or seconding himself. He recollected the circumstance referred to by his colleague of the hole and corner meetings of the Waste Land Board ; the matter under the consideration of the Board upon that occasion was of a private Dature, which could not be of any interest to the public. After Mr. Proudfoot's death a consultation took place among the members of the Board as to who was the most likely person as a successor to the office, when Mr Ligar was suggested; but as a matter of temporary arrangement he (the Provincial Solicitor) was to act as Treasurer; and on His Honor being consulted, he acquiesced in the proposal. It was represented to him that His Honor had given a pledge to Mr. Ligar, but he did not hear the statement made. He was of opinion that the Superintendent was not called upon to give a pledge, and that it ought not to be given without the consent of his Executive. He was disposed to look favourably upon Mr. Ligar,. but considered himself free to vote for any person who might be qualified for the office. That the appointment bad been made by those who had the power was sufficient, and the person appointed was Mr. Cutten. No doubt he would have arduous duties to perform, he therefore thought that that gentleman ought to have a fair trial. If we were to take the example of the other Provinces, a professional man was not necessary, and perhaps we may find that to he the' case, in Otago. The House had no power to bring

His Honor to its-bar on the plea that he had made a pledge while really there was no evidence to shew that the Superintendent had ever made such a pledge—and if made at all must be illegal. He therefore held that the question could not be entertained by the House. Mr. Young said the whole matter rested with the Superintendent, and that the present Executive had nothing whatever to do with that pledge. The proper course to persue would be to move an address to the Governor to remove the Superintendent, which he felt certain no member would dare do. No member had more reason to complain of inconsistency on the part of the Superintendent than he had, but on that account to request the removal of the Superintendent, the elected of the people, he certainly would not. Mr. Cargill said he was glad the mover of the question had stated it to be a question of principle, otherwise he (Mr. Cargill) would be inclined to attribute it to other motives. It appeared to bim to be a most inconsistent course for the House to | censure the Superintendent for not breaking the law in giving the appointment to Mr. Ligar, but the whole assertion rested on the hear-say evidence of the mover, who in this case constituted himself both judge and accuser. The whole affair might be a phantisroal imagination of the brain. Tbe Superintendent, whatever hon. members choose to believe, acts by the law. The Superintendent promised Mr. Ligar that he would bring the matter before the Executive, and if they approved of tbe arrangement, he (Mr. Ligar) should have the ap--pointment. He regretted that the Executive had not taken higher grounds. He really hoped that the move would be seen through. He quite agreed with Mr. Young that the more straightforward proceeding would have been to brine the matter boldly and honestly forward, and not in such an underhand st)le. Mr. Lambert said he was surprised at the part taken by the Government in so stringently opposing this enquiry, and that all the opposition with 1 which the proposition had been met was merely to throw the onus on Responsible Government. This Responsible Government was a mockery, a delusion, and a sham. Mr. Cargill had been gazetted as a member of the Executive without knowing anything of the appointment till he read of it in tbe newspaper. If this was Responsible Government, then the sooner it was got rid of, the better. Were no qualifications requisite for so important an office as that of Crown Commissioner, and should the appointment be made by the Superintendent upon the recommendation of an Executive comfoied of two members who were opposed to each other, then the appointment of that gentleman rested with himself; but to avoid this, Mr Cargill was called in to sanction the appointment of his own brother in-law. Mr. Ligar was represented as coming to this settlement looking for a situation. Such was not the case. Dr. Purdie, in reply, said he had been accused of being actuated by party and malignant feelings, all of which he repudiated. His feelings towards tbe Superintendent were those of respect, but he could not sanction what he considered to be a dereliction of duty. He was accused of bringing a charge against the Superintendent with a view of favouring Mr. Ligar. He knew nothing of Mr. Ligar; he had never seen him, except on one occasion, when be (Dr. Purdie) had sat on the,J3ench and fined that gentleman for allotting his hoise to go at large. He had no desire to injure the Superintendent. He had often defended him from charges of obloquy which were made against him by a certain gentleman in tbe newspaper. The whole charges were founded on tbe broad principle of justice and truth. The motion was put and lost. The House went into committee on the Municipal Estates Bill. Mr. Macandrew moved that the words " Town Board" in clause 3 be struck out. This motion caused considerable discussion, and on being put to the vote, was lost. The votes were as follows: — Ayes 4. Noes 12. Lambert Kilgour Shaw Martin Macandrew Hepburn " - Stevenson Cargill Purdie Rennie Cutten M'Glashan Williams Harris Young Mansford