PENSION REDUCTIONS

Otago Daily Times, Issue 21627, 23 April 1932, Page 12

PENSION REDUCTIONS

HEATED DEBATE IN HOUSE CHARGE BY LABOUR MEMBERS INFLUENCING OF VOTES ALLEGED {From Our Parliamentary Reporter. I WELLINGTON, April 22. The Government narrowly escaped defeat on a vital portion of its economy proposals shortly after 4 o’clock this morning, when the Labour Party charged Government, members with influencing votes to save the Ministry from a noconfidence decision. These charges, which threw the Chamber into the. greatest excitement for half an hour, are exceedingly rare in New Zealand’s political history, and have no recent precedent. Old-age , pensions were being discussed. The clause is divided into four sub-clauses, and Labour had moved successive amendments to strike out each sub-clause. The first of these subclauses fixed the reduction in the pension from £45 10s to £4O 19s, and ‘was retained by only 3(1 votes to 34. Enthusiastic clapping from the Labour benches greeted the result. Above the applause Mr MTCeen exclaimed; “ Another three and outski! ”

A point of order was raised by Mr M'Combs. “ During the taking of the vote a gross irregularity was committed, he said. “Mr Healy came into the Chamber and asked Mr Makitanara to vote in the Ayes lobby. A member is not allowed to be interfered with. 1 understand that Mr Makitanara had previously arranged to vote with the Noes.”

Mr Healy said that Mr Makitanara had not been well, and bad asked him to vote for him.

Mr Semple: You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Mr Healy proceeded to elaborate his explanation, when Mr Semple again interjected—“ You miserable hound!” Mr W. Nash (Hutt) said he saw Mr Healy go to Mr Makitanara and ask the latter to come and vote. Mr Makitanara Jiad said he wanted to vote for the pensions.

There were cries of “ Scandal! Scandal! ” from the Labour benches and some seconds elapsed before the chairman (Mr Smith) restored order.

“ I ask members to restrain themselves,” called Mr Smith sternly. “ I saw Mr Healy go to Mr Makitanara and say, ‘ Come and vote,’ said Mr Nash. Mr Makitanara said ‘ I want to vote for the pensions,’ and pointed to the Noes lobby, but Mr Healy took him to the other lobby.”

Mr J. A. Nash (Palmerston) said: I voted with the Noes. I heard Mr Healy say to Mr Makitanara, “ You must come and vote.” He never induced Mr Makitanara to vote either way. “ I am sorry this has occurred,” said Mr Makitanara. “ I voted for the ayes and make no bones about it. 1 don’t want to be coerced. I am suffering from rheumatism and I instructed Mr Healy every time to record my vote as was right and proper. Mr Sullivan had said that in the next vote we would all have to record our votes. Shortly after that Mr Healy came to me.” The chairman: Had your mpne been recorded in the previous divisions by consent of the tellersV

M r M.akitanaru: Oh, yes. That had been done in two or three divisions. Mr Atmore said it was perfectly true that Mr Healy had said to Mr Makitanara: “Come and vote over here.” Mr Sullivan said that Mr Makitanara had not been going into the lobbies and he had told him that everyone would have to go into the lobbies and vote on this particular clause. V. The chairman said that if a member had induced another to vote against his conviction it was grossly improper. Permission had been given for the member to have his vote recorded, although he did not go into the lobbies. An assurance had been given that the member had cast his vote as he desired and Mr Healy had given an assurance that he had only asked the member to go into the lobby to vote. In the circumstances ho could only accept the assurances given. The first incident then ended.

The House proceeded immediately to a division on the second sub-clause which governed the amount that might be earned by an old-age pensioner. The clause was retained by 40 votes to 2D. A, point of order was raised by Mr p. Langstonc, who said that Mr Wright and Mr Stallworthy had been in the noos lobby. They had voted with the noes on the previous division, and it was evident they proposed to do so again. Mr J. A. Nash had come over to the noes lobby and had taken them round to the other lobby.

Mr Stallworthy: Don’t be silly ! Mr Langstonc submitted that the question of influencing votes arose. Sonic influence had been at work. .

Mr J. O’Brien said he heard Mr Nash call out to Mr Wright. The latter had voted with the noes on every occasion and Mr O’Brien had been surprised that he had not done so on the last occasion. Mr Semple: Dirty work! No one can influence my vote,” declared Mr Wright. “Mr Nash used no influence. He did discuss the issue. I thought he was in the lobby to vote against the clause.” Mr Stullworthy said he was in the noes lobby when the division bells rang. He had no intention of staying there. He walked down the lobby to inquire what the division was about and heard Mr Jordan say, “ Wo will stick it into him.” There was a chorus of “ Ah’s! ” from the Government benches. Mr Stallworthy: It is the deliberate intention of the Labour Party to do a dirty trick. The chairman: Order! Mr Holland submitted that the remark made by Mr Stnlhvorthy was wholly unparliamentary and he should withdraw it.

Mr Stallworthy retracted, but added: I shall content myself with thinking what I am not allowed to say.

Mr Jordan, speaking with warmth, declared: What the member for Eden said is untrue. “1 will stick it into him” is not in my vocabulary. I am surprised. The chairman said that Air Nash stated that the conversation took place before the locking of the doors. Alt Wright and Air Stallworthy had said they were not influenced by anything which Air J. A, Nash had said. He accordingly ruled that no irregularity had taken place. Air O’Brien said the question was so grave that the Speaker’s ruling should be obtained. Accordingly he moved that progress be reported. The motion was lost by 44 votes to 24.