THE CLUTHA SLY GROG CASES

Otago Daily Times, Issue 11200, 24 August 1898, Page 4

THE CLUTHA SLY GROG CASES

CHARGES OF PERJURY AGAINST CON STABLES.

. The hearing of the charge against Constable John Melville of having committed perjury in the evidence he. gave on oath, before Mr Hawkins, S.M., as a witness at Clinton at the hearing of the charge against Richard Irving o£ selling 'whisky without being licensed on the 22nd July by swearing to the effect that he and one James Arthur Cruickshank had bought whisky from the said Richard Irving on the sth July and paid him a shilling therefor, and that he the said John Melville did not get whisky from the said Richard Irving for nothing, and that he did not tell one John Palmer that he and the said James Arthur Cruickshank had got whisky on the sth July from the said.Richard Irving without payment, was resumed before Mr C. C. Graham, S.M., at the City Police Court yesterday afternoon. • Mr F. E. Chapman appeared to prosecute, and Mr A. C. Hanlon to defenc. Daniel Douglas Macdonald, cioss-examined by Mr Hanlon, said that Melville admitted in court that he was on very friendly terms with Palmer. Witness knew that Palmer's statement' that they had been on the same farms. . Melville said that .tney.met every:night, and were very "chummy." .. Constable Reimei- was. not cross-examined. ~ David Murray; 'cross-examined, 'said he went io Irving's Hotel, about 7 o'clock on the night in question. Had. driven from J?ukerau v that day. Had tea at the hotel, but could hot remember whether he had tea before he went into the sitting room, but thought it very lively he looked into, the room first. He could'not say who were in the sitting room when he wens in. He really could not remember who were there. He went into the room after tea abous 9 o'clock. He went out after tsa, and returned about 9 o'clock, going into the front sitting room. Cruickshank, Melville, Hugh Smith, Adam Murray,. Gordon, and Martin were there. He could not say: if there was anyone else. He left about 10 o'clock. He was there scarcely an hour. The men were sitting by the fire. A' plan of the room was hero produced, and wit:ness out where Melville and Cruickshank were sitting. He went into the private sitting room after he left. He did not remember if he left any of the men in the room. He believed he left Adam Murray there. Witness sat down on a sofa in Mr Irving's private sitting room. Irving remained in the room all the time witness was there. He did not remember his leaving the room. He remembered someone coming to the' door. It was Hugh Smith. Irving was sitting on an easy chair when Smith knocked. He got up and.-went to the' door. Irving and witness were partners in a sheep deal; and witness was interested in what Smith said. Smith asked for instructions about something for the next day. Witness, said when the base was before Mr Hawliina that he could see Smith. He said to Mr Hawkins " I saw Melville and Cruickshank at the door. I saw no ono else there.'1 He meant after Smith left. What he_said was that when Smith was.leaving the door Gruickshank and Melville, canio .forward, and .' asked- Irving..if ■thera was any' chance :of ■ getting a nightcap. He told Mr'Haw'kins that He heard Smith talk- . ing . outside, but he' only 'saw Melville, and ■Cruickshank. '' ■ ' " _ ■ -_ Mr.Hanlon:' What do you mean by. saying now that you saw Smith'only? Witness; Smith had just gone away from. ,the door, and when he left Melville and Cruick- . shank came to the door within a minute after. ' • Counsel, quoting from the evidence given, by witness in the case to the effect that he said Smith came for instructions half an hour before, asked him if it were true he had said that. Witness replied that if he did say it, he did not mean to say it. To say that Smith came Half an hour before was a mistake. Cruickshank said to Irvingr, "Is. there any chance of getting a nightea-B?" Irving was then standing at tl.e. door. He was-iust going to shut the door after' Smith ]eft,wh(& Melville and Cruickshank came up. He hoard their footsteps in the passage. Irving did not say anything. Mr Hanlon asked if the following extract from witness' evidence were correct: —"Irving and I wero sitting in the private parlour. ' Irving heard footsteps,, and said, 'I'll go and see. who this is.' Cruickshank and Melville were there when he went-to the door. Cruickshank asked if. he could have a. nip, and Irving said 'No; prohibition has been carried here four yei'-ia ago.' Cruickshank then said it was very liard,. tnat -he would so much like to have a nip before i goingHo bed. Irving afterwards saiu,'Well, some--and have a.drink with me. Mind you, -I can.'* ] take payment for it.' " That was what he told Mr Hawkins. Cruickshank and Melville came in, and Irving took a bottle out ...of the chiffonier, and a couple of glasses, and gave them each .a. : nip. "He took it for granted that it was j whisky. Ho could not say if Irving had a"j drink. Irving put-the bottle back into.thechif- { fonier.. The men did' not 'bay-'-anything when they had the liquor. It was not usual lor.Mi Irving to offer a whisky in. that way.- .tie did not offer witness a drink'then. He had a drink . with him afterwards. Witness'had a.whiskyhot. He did not know what Irving had.. Aftar Cruickshank and Melville had a drink Irving asked them if they knew the numbers, of their rooms. If he told Mr Hawkins that Irving had a nip with Cruickshank and Melville, it was the truth. ;He could not'recollect now if Irving had a, drink or not. When he gave his evidence be- : fore Mr Hawkins" lie said he'did not remember if ha had a- whisky-hot himself or not; Now he remembered he did. ■ •■.-■.. .-.. : \ '.. Percy.Martin, commercial traveller, said he had been a. traveller off' and on for a number of years. He had not been travelling lor any- . one durmg the last three months, but that was what he had befcn brought up to. He had been living for. over two months, or thereabouts, with . Irving as a friend. He had known Irving i'or j about 15 years. He worked when no chose, but i it was only as a matter of choice. He had com- j missions to travel there/but the roals had been ; impassable, and he had not done anything in j consequence. Irving had asked aim. to come ', and stay with him to recruit his health. Tne ' doctor told him to tackle hard work lor 'fie . benefit of his health, and that was why he had done work there. On the sth July l|e was •at Irving's accommodation house. He went into the sitting room after tea. Murray was there and several others, but he could not remember who were there. He could remember who were there after the train. He might not . have gone over to'the train. i .Mr Hanlon: You know everything in this case depends on what took place after 9 o'clock? Witness: Yes. Mr Hanlon: And I want to test your credibility by asking you what took place before 9. " Witness was asked several questions as to what occurred before 9 o'clock, 'but said he could riot remember sufficiently to, reply to the questions. After 9 o'clock he remained in the room,till about a quarter to 12. He had no drink, nor did he have any coffee or supper. Murray left first; Smith then' left, almost on Murray's heels, and thoh Melville, Cruickshank and himself left. When he got out iie noticed Hugh Smith at the foot of the stairs. Gordon was a.130 in the passage near the stairs, witness; was talking to' Smith when (Jruickshank was. speaking to Irving. He asked Smith if Le wore going to the Pomahaka in the morning, but'he said he would see the boss'about some sheep. Witness thought he wanted to get in- . stntctioris. Witness got his board ana lodgings at the place: :He did: not reme'mberif Cruickshank knocked at Irving's door. He would not say'if Smith had not spoken to Irving before he saw him. He saw' Cruickshank go into Irving's room He did not lose sight of him. He heard him ask Irving if there was any chance of getting a nightcap. Irving said, "No, sir; no chance." Understand, mis is a prohibition district," or something to that effect. Cruickshank said something about it seeming nard, and appeared to be anxious to get a drink. He could not remember the words used. He did not want to invent anything. Nobody invented anything for him. Irving said most emphatically that he, would not take any money, but he would give him a drink. He thought it was a white bottle the drink was taken out of.' His Worship,remarked, in reply to an observation of Mr Hanlon that iwitness' memory ,did not seem to be very good, that one could not remember such small details as the colour of the bottle.. . ■ • Mr Hanlon said that it was those small 3j- ; : tails which it was.necessary to dwell upon ;n order to prove it was a concocted story, which . his sido said it was. ' ' '• In reply..to'further questions, witness said ; that Irving had a drink, and ho supposed he took the diink out of tiie same bottle. Wit- : ness would swear that' no money was tendered. ' He would certainly have noticed if any money : were tendered. Witness continued to'say that he had only been asked a few hours before the i case came on at Clinton to give evidence. He 1 and the others did not compare xneir evidence. . There had been no collusion whatever. ' . ..Hugh Smith, .shepherd, said he was a farmer. : Prior to that he was at the bank. He left '. because he had more creditors than he could 1 pay. On the 6th July he was in the front sit- 1 ting room, of the Prince of Wales Hotel. He ' could not say who were all in and out after i tea and before the train ■ arrived. 'After the - train came.in Melville, Cruickshank, and Mar- i tin were in the room when he went.in. Adam i Murray was there also. 'He went to see Ir- i ving, and saw him at the door of the private ] fitting room. Witness did riot thing that he 1 had. said, when the case was before Mr Haw- I kins, that he was coming out of the one door' 1 when Irving was coming out of the other. Did < not think he could have said it. After speaking i to Irving witness thought that he (Irving) did 1 not go inside the room. Cruickshank and Mcl- 1 ville came up. Would not contradict anyone 1 who.said that Irving was leaving the door and 1 closing it after him. Cruickshank asked if j there was any chance of getting a drink. Ir- < ving said no, no chance at all. Cruickshank < asked if they could not possibly get a night- j cap, and Irving replied that it was a prohibi- i tion district or words to that effect. Cruick- ] shank said to Irving: "Don't you remember t me?" and Irving said something like "Yes, t I believe I do." Irving said, " You can have i a drink with me," or something to that effect. \ Witness did not think the drink could have ( been paul_ for at all. Irving could not have ( given Cruickshank 19a change without witness 1 seeing it. Did not see a jug or decanter of -i water. Would swear that the two men got a r drink but would not swear that the word i

whisky was mentioned. If the policemen swore they never got a drink at the door they had sworn a lie. Could not say whether Irving had a drink. Mr Hanlon: Bo you remember having a conversation with one Walter Finn on the 16th July?' Witness: No, I don't. . At Balclutha: No, I don't. I don't think I have spoken to Walter Finn for six months. Now try to think. Take plenty of time. — No 1 don't remember speaking to him. Will you swear that you did not at Balclutha on the 16th July say to Walter Finn that you were there allihe time.and Melville and Cruickshaiik neither asked for nor got a drink there? I will swear that I was not in Balclutha on the 16th July. Will you swear that yo\i did not say that?— Yes, I will; nor at any other time or place. Continuing, witness said that Irving had spoken to him about giving evidence in the caso at Clinton. Irving told him to see Mr Maedonald, and Mr Macdonald asked him about the case, and he (witness) told him what lie knew about it. The case was hero adjourned till 11.30 tins (Wednesday) morning. j