BACK TO THE TARIFF

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 6311, 11 September 1907, Page 6

BACK TO THE TARIFF

RESUMED BY THE HOUSE. DAIRYING AND MINING BOILERS. THE CLAIM OF LOCAL INDUSTRY The Tariff Bill was placed at the head >f yesterday's order paper in the House if Representatives, and early in tho afternoon tho House resumed coiiKideration of tho measure, tho first point to ue discussed being an amendment by tho Hon. A. R. Guinness, that boilers for mining and dairying purposes bo included in tho schedule of goods subject to a duty of 5 per cent. Tho Hon. J. A. Millar, Minister of Customs, hoped the committee would reject tho amendment, because all tho boilers required could bo made* in the colony, while the type used in dairy factories could be made up as stock by New Zealand ironworks. At present all UiOkSO boilers came from America. Tho engineering industry had shown a diminution in New Zealand during the last few years, and men were rut of employment at present. Tho .same thing applied to mining companies* machinery. Mr Herries asked why concessions could not be given to the agricultural, dairying, and mining industries when the boot manufacturers were getting assistance in bringing in their machinery? He did not say that, altogether, the Homo should not encourage industries in tho colony, but the Minister hud not shown that the boiler industry would suffer by the amendment. He believed It was succeeding in every possible way. Factory owners and mining companies naturally wished to place their orders in the colony, but if the boiler industry required 20 per cent to protect it, tho question was whether it was worth while. Ho was quite willing to put boilers into the original position of paying 5 per cent duty. Surely the Minister would recognise that the industries Df dairying and agriculture ought to be encouraged in every possible way. WHAT THE DUTY MEANS. Sir Joseph Ward said ho wanted to point out tho actual position in regard to theeo boilers. The hon. member for Bay of Plenty had declared that tho imposition of this duty was going to be injurious to the mining and dairying industrioe. Mr Herries: I didn't say that. Sir Joseph Ward: Then why move to talc© the duty oil ? Mr Herries: I want to put it whore it was before.

Sir Joseph Word; Tho total amount of duty on dairy boilers supplied to dairying companies last year was JES2 IPs, and yet the House had all this declamation and outcry to protect the dairying industry, which only paid that amount last year. What was the amount of duty this country imposed on butter at tho present time to protect the dairying industry? They had a duty on outside butter of nearly £l4, a ton, or 2s per cwt. If butter were down in Australia to 25 per cent, loss than it was now, they would very soon find the dairying industry asking for - a duty against that country's butter should there bo any chance of it coming into Now Zealand. The hon. members opposite said nothing was done for the protection of the dairying industry, and yet the Government placed a duty of 2s per cwt., or nearly All 3 or JBI4 a ton on uutside butter. So much in regard to lairying. What about boilers for mining purposes, which tho hon. members were o anxious to protect? The total amount .if duty on boilers imported into this jonntry last year for mining purposes iraa £l3 15e, and yet there was this entity against the Government's proposal, which the Government was asking in the interests of all classes in the community, in order to manufacture what we could in our own country. Now, in the face of these figures, he wondered whether the hon. members opposite were really going to carry on these imaginary and theoretical statements, and urging that what the Government was proposing in this tariff was gpipg to bo injurious to those engaged in these industries. It was all nonsense, when they looked at the matter from a practical standpoint. The dairying industry was going to profit shortly to the extent of JWOO a year from the system of inspection which tho Government was providing. When they come down with a reasonable proposal as an incentive to people to have boilers made in this country, they were told it was likely to do harm. Ho wanted to repeat that the Government was giving away £4-00,000 in concessions, and yet they found this individual item contested for the purpose of creating an impression that the Government was imposing a burden upon people who could not afford to pay it. Even supposing they were creating ench a burden, in relation to the actual business done, by comparison with the concessions made, there was no one engaged in tho dairying or mining industries who would not benefit by the remissions of Customs duty made.: In return they had their own people'employed, both in town and country, and he thought that was worth striving for. He did not think they, ought to allow themselves to be misled by any sentimental reasons. FREE DAIRY INSPECTION. Mr Massey said that if the arguments put forward by the Ministers were the only ones which could be brought in favour of the duty on boilers, then tho logical conclusion would be that boilers should be placed on the free list. It had been said that the dairy farmers would secure the benefit of increased inspection, but there was nothing the dairy farmers objected to so much as increased inspection. If the farmers producing butter in the outlying districts were to be worried in the same way as the farmers in the centres, they would go out of the business and take up sheep farming. Tho Premier asked the House why the duty was put on butter originally? Mr ,Ell: Take it off and see what they will say. The Premier said the duty was put on so that the butter producers of the colony could be protected from outside competition, in the form of importations of cheap butter. There was a very great deni to bo considered in protecting important industries of tho colony, and they could not lightly cast off those responsibilities. As to the dairymen's objection to inspection, there was somebody named Massey in the North who requested the Minister of Lands to provide free inspection. Mr Hardy; There’s only one Massey. {Laughter.)’ The Premier: And he is the Massev who asked for free inspection! Opposition had been shown in the past to inspection, but what had operated to greater advantage where the farmer was concerned than the colony's system of grading and inspection of its exported products? SATISFIED FARMERS. Mr Hornsby stated that the dairy farmers of the Wairarapa heartily appreciated the efforts of tho Minister of Lands to secure the purity of their products. Mr Izard informed the House that the National Dairy Association was satisfied with tho tariff. The Hon. T. Duncan: It was the best they could get. Mr Stevens said that his constituents.

who formed part of the largest dairying district in tho colony, would be well satisfied with the Government's proposal to provide a small modicum of tection to local industries. Tho Hon. A. R. Guinness suggested that the small amount of duty paid by imported boilers last year indicated that there was no necessity to protect local industries, and also that the duty was not applied for revenue jiiir.poses. If the amount remitted under the tariff was to be made up in other ways, why should not the sacrifice bo properly distributed ? Tho Premier interjected t.het bnile’-r for mining purposes paid .£l3 last year. The Hon. A. R. Guinness: Then why do you cause all this worry to got Xl3? The Premier: Why did you want to take it off? (Laughter.) Tho Hon. A. R. Guinness: The question is, why did you put it on? The Premier : You put mining machinery up to 20 per cent., and we wanted to keex> it at 5. (Laughter.) The Hon. A. R. Guinness: You have not done it yet! Mr Reid pointed out that they 7 protected the agricultural implement manufactures by passing special legislation, and the industry was doing ver, well. Now, tho mining and dairy!’ industries, in so far as they supplied tin wants of the colony to the extent 1 did, were also flourishing very we l There was only a small quantity of br : ers imported from outside, then what w nt the object in putting an additional 15 per cent, duty on these industries when the manufacturers supplying these boilers must have been doing very well? Sir Josexdi Ward : Will you vote take the duty off wheat? Mr Reid: That is a different question altogether. Mr Massey quoted several telegrams from people engaged in the dairying industry strongly protesting against the proposed alterations in the tariff and the 20 per cent, duty on boilers used in dairy factories. One was from Mr Wesley Spragg. managing director of : the New Zealand Dairy Association (Auckland). A REACTION PROPHESIED. The Hon. T. Y. Duncan said ho had also received several wires to the same effect. There was a feeling amongst farmers that this was the first attempt. (Hoar, hear.) Let those who voted that way be responsible for their vote, but, he "wanted to tell the House his duty in this matter. He told them furtherthat it would be the beginning of a reaction in this country .if these small pinpricks went on. Tho Premier declared himself surprised at the previous speaker's remarks. When it was suggested that farmers regarded the proposals as the beginning of something which was to bo injurious to them, the previous speaker must be shut ting his eyes to what had been done for them already. Tho Hon. T. Duncan ; Not this Government. The Premier : I am talking about this party, which has done an immense amount for them. He went on to remind the House that not, since 1900 had the tariff been altered, and most people knew that there must necessarily be a Jong interval between tariff revisions. How would the previous speaker vote when it came to the flour duty? The Hon. T. Duncan: 1 will tell you then. Tho Premier : I venture to say it will b© the other way. How was it that a number of members who represented dairying constituencies had received no communication asking them .to allow boilers to come in free. It was because such a proposal was not being urged by people who understood the position. The telegram read from Mr Spragg indicated complete ignorance of the position. It must have been an old one. • Mr Massey ; August 29th.

The Premier: That is twelve days ago, and in that interval alterations have been made in regard to that very subject. Mr Bess said, although I he had refrained so far from speaking, he wanted to say there was a very strong feeling in the country districts against this 15 per cent, increased duty now proposed on dairying machinery.

Mr Okey claimed that the farmers had not asked for the proposed dairy inspection. The farmers did not ask for the duty on butter, being fully able to compete with imports. Sir Joseph Ward said there were members of the House who had important dairy factories in their districts, but who had not received any intimation against the proposals 'of the Government. TOWNS AT A DISADVANTAGE. Mr Fisher said if the municipality of Wellington imported machinery it had to pay twice as much duty as tho directors of the Waihi Mining Company, who lived in England. Surely there was something wrong in that. In the past the dairying and mining industries had been fostered to an unusually high degree. Mr Buddo contended that the dairy farmers themselves were not asking for this remission; if they were, then it was through being deluded into the impression that they were being taxed upon the whole of the appliances used in their industry. The Hon. Mr Duncan said the objection was not because this was a small matter, but because the duty was put on at all. Tho feeling was dead against this imposition, and the country would tell them about it later on. This was the beginning of trouble, and that trouble would bo all round. Ho was quite certain country members would have to look after their own affairs, and not allow one side to be set against the other; they would have to go together to hold their own. ,Mr Laurenson maintained that no country had ever emerged out of barbarism that was satisfied with getting something out of the soil and breeding stock. If it was thought desirable to establish these industries, it was desirable to give some percentage of protection to them. One would imagine that New Zealand was* making some wicked and. drastic proposal against the agricultural industry. Ho recognised its value, but at the same time realised that our home industries required some protection. The impost was a reasonable one, and they should look at the question from a national and not parochial standpoint. Mr Hogg said, whilst,being a protectionist, ho saw no necessity, for protection lr this instance. This duty was not necessary for protective purposes. He would not be, doing his duty to the farming element in Ms constituency if he voted for an impost of .£2O per .£IOO on boilers used in industries in which they were engaged. The Hon. Mr Millar asked if the last hon. member would believe him when lu told him that there was hardly on* dairy boiler manufactured in the colony* a special class of boiler was imported from America because it was cheaper The duty of .£52 received Inst year represented seventeen boilers, the value o which was JJIOU, the average price beinr from .£65 to .£BS. He wished it to h fairly understood that tho Government was not putting one penny upon dair* ing machinery, which was absolutely free.

THE DIVISION. AMENDMENT REJECTED BY ELEVEN VOTES. After about four hours’ discussion, n division was called for on the Hon. A R. Guinness’s amendment to place bo' era for mining and dairying purposes/ the 5 per cent, schedule, the result being

that the amendment was negatived b; eleven votes. - .. , Following is the divisron list: —

For the . Against Amendment Amendment (23). Alison 'In ke “-p r Allen, J. AUmi, E. G. lien not J ar , b , er Holland liutldo Duncan Larroll Guinness Colvin Hardy ‘ Herries Ell Hornsby f‘ 16 l iei Jennings Ilatman I rascr, A. L. D. Lethbridge G raharu Lewis Gray Malcolm Hall Mander Hanan Masse v Hogan Mills Hogg Okey Houston Poland Izard Held Lauronson Kemmgton Eawry [>oss McGowan Rutherford McLachlan Scddon Sy™ 3 Ngate Poolo Sidey Stallworthy Stevens Steward Tanner Thomson Ward WittyWood PAIRS.

For. Against. Mackenzie, T. Dillon Hidd Field W‘ lt ° rd Grcenslado Dai clay A misunderstanding. A few minutes after tho announcement of the result. Mr Major stated that through a misunderstanding he na<l paired with Mr Stallwoithy, and .left Hie House, while his colleague remained to vote. Ho asked if his vote could be recorded in favour of the amendment. Mr Colvin (Government Whip) .ex plained that the two gentlemen paired during the afternoon, but when Mr Major came back in the evening he told him Mr Stallworthy was not « the House, 60 Mr Major went out When the mistake was noticed, he sent a messenger after Mr Major, but the member could not return in time to vote. The chairman iniormed Mr Major that his vote could not be recorded. ELECTRICAL MACHINERY. Mr James Allen moved to reduce from 10 to 5 per cent, the duty on electric machinery and appliances, viz., electiic generators and electric motors, including slide rails therefor, electric lamps, including globus for arc lamp©, and electric transformers The mover declared that large electric motors could only be made economically in big ecrtabiishments oulsiue the colony* , . , Mr Aitken contended that when a municipal body imported machinery which was intended for the public good, it should bo allowed to import it free of duty. , , , . . Mr Fisher stated that the electrical engineer to the Wellington Corporation in termed him that 600 to 700 electrical melrfs would be imported annually by the local body. The meters cost £A lUs each, and could not be mad© in the colony; therefore, he submitted that if meters wore not put on the free list, they should .at least come in under a 5 per cent. duty. The Minister replied that electrical undertakings were good commercial concerns, as their balance-sheets indicated. Why should local bodies refuse to contribute to the revenue when the Government contributed to local bodes' funds i When the Bill was recommitted, he might exclude meters from the dutiable list. Replying to a further question from Mr Fisher, the Minister said he might place gas, water, and electrical movers on the free list.

The amendment was rejected by 42 vote© to 23.

Mr Fisher moved that electrical machinery for local bodies be admitted on a 5 per cent, duty. The Minister asked the House to reject this proposal, because local bodies' electrical undertakings were just as much commercial concerns as anything else.

Mr Barber supported ‘ the amendment, stating that local bodies should be encouraged to provide electrical undertakings, because the Government would otherwise have to, bear the responsi-, bility. Tho amendment was not carried, the noes being 33, and the aye© 28. BICYCLES. Mr Barber asked if the Minister would place a apt-cine duty on all bicycles, so as to exclude cheap bicycles mad© in England by sweated labour. He stated that a cheap bicycle was being turned out at ,£2 10© in England, and advertised in the colony. It could not possibly .be made legitimately at such a price. A requisition in favour of the course ho proposed had been signed by 280 bicycle manufacturers. If a specific duty of .£2 per machine was imposed, it would amount to 20 per cent, upon an ordinary machine. The Minister said , he had already placed parts for bicycle© on the free list. He quoted statistics showing that the bicycle industry had improved to the extent of .610,000 in five years. He Jio]H*d to deal with the question of lowgrade articles in a different way by making manufacturers mark them, so thfit no person would buy them. In this wf.y the Government hoped to deal with the whole position. Bicycle manufacturers and workers were satisfied with ]iia proposals to place the industry on a sound basis. Mr Poole urged that something was required to be done to prevent the production of spurious bicycle parts imitating well-known British standard parts. The position was identical with tho shoddy boot-importing business. ' If the Minister would deal with this trouble in a comprehensive manner, he would benefit not only the local industry but the consumers as well, Mr Aitken said the admission of bicycle parts free only meant a remission of six shillings per bicycle. The Minister replied that finished bicycle© imported last year were valued at .£71,000, whereas the total value of bicycle parts imported to be made up in the colony was .£330.000. This indicated how the industry was flourishing. Specific duties could be evaded by importing bicycle© without the wheels or other parts., It would be necessary to asses© every part for a specific duty which would be impracticable. Bicycle© were manufactured for the Post Office; containing the best materials, at a cost of .£6 10s. ■ BILLHOOKS. Mr Okoy moved to ©trike the duty of 20 ner cent, off billhook©. The Minister explained that these implements could be made in the colony. Messrs Hardy, Massey, and Okey contended that by this duty tho agricultural labourer was being taxed. The amendment was lost by 37 votes to 24. CASH REGISTERS. Sir \V. Steward moved to strike out the duty of 20 per cent, on cash registers with a view to inserting 10 per cent.— the old duty. Mr Millar ©aid h© knew exactly what the profit© were from these machines, and what they were selling at. Cash registers were a luxury and not a necessity —they wore ©imply a check on the honesty of the employee. The amendment was lost by 42 votes to 22. IRON PIPES. Mr Arnold moved to omit cast-iron pipes 3ft in diameter and upwards used for sewage purposes from the 20 per cent, duty. He said this duty would mean an

extra expenditure of <£'l2oo to the Dun-e-din 'Jity Council. Mr Millar said he could not make a Du Li to meot one particular case. iho amendment was lost by 44 votes to 20. GAS METERS. ETC. Mr A. L. D. Imsor moved to reduce tho duty on gas-proaucing plant, meters, etc., from il to 10 per cent. He pointed out that as the clause read gas meters had to pay 20 per cent. Mr Millar said tho duty had been imposed because gas companies were getting in some of the mo?t ridicu ous things under tho heading ‘'gas manufactures." The whole revenue from gas companies did not amount to .£3OOO a year, ile was, however, quite prepaicd to put gas and electrical meters on the free list. The amendment was lost on the voices. REAPERS, ETC. Mr Buddo moved that extra parts foi reapers and binders be not made t boar 20 per cent, duty under the machinery heading, “manufactured or partly manufactured articles of metal.” If the main machine did not bear thh duty, tho parts thereof should not i so. This duty was now being collected. It being pointed out that there was misinterpretation of the Act, tho Mi ister of Customs promised to look i. tho matter. Mr Buddo accordingly withdrew hi* amendment, owing to the Minister's explanation. GAS PRODUCERS. Mr A. L. D. Frasor moved to allow gaspi oducing machinery to be imported at 10 per cent., instead of 20 per cent. He pointed out that 10 per cent, was the old duty. Tho Minister said that as gas engines were allowed in free, it would bo unfair to allow further concessions in this direction, in view of tho fact that electrical machinery boro a 10 por cent. The chairman ruled tho amendment out of order, as the item sought to h* amended, “machinery not otherwise enumerated,” had already been passed. Class twelve, dealing with manufactures of metal, was adopted as a whole, and the Minister then moved to report progress. This was agreed to, and the House rose at 1 a.m.