HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXX, Issue 3785, 6 July 1899, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

WEDNESDAY, sth JULY. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 n.m. _ ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. Mr F. McGUIRE (Hawera) ■ resumed the debate on the Address-in-Reply, and the hostile amendment thereto proposed by the Leader of tho Opposition. He regretted, he said, that the Government had not seen fit to come before

Hie House and court the fullest inquiry into- the marine scandal. Had they ' set up a Royal Commission some months ago, and had the Commission reported, they could have understood it, but it was an extraordinary thing that the Commission should have been set up only a few days before Parliament assembled. He urged that steps

should bo taken by the Government toarrange for regular shipments of dairy produce, and that no further delay should take place in the establishment, of a dairy school. The' maladministration that at present obtained was bringing the Government into utter contempt all over the country, and it was a pity to see the Government taking from the people their self-respect and self-reliance, by interfering with them in every respect. He contended that settlors should be allowed to acquire tho freehold of their lands. Settlers would be given great encouragement if that right was granted. Mr O’MEARA (Pahiatua), combating the charge of “spoils to the victo r v ” levelled against the Government, said Ids experience was that the Government had very little say in putting men into tho Civil Service. It was done in most cases by tho heads of departments, and positions were as a rule given to those who wore in touch with those heads. Referring to the Opposition, ho remarked that it was a disorganised, jealous party, torn with internal strife. Its members could not agree with one another, and if they got on to tho Government benches tomorrow there would bo disruption among them as to who should fill the various Ministerial positions. Discussing, the material prosperity of the colony, Mr O’Meara regarded it as incontestable that business Was in a most flourishing condition—due greatly to the Liberal administration of tho present Government. He advocated more spirited action in the construction of roads and bridges for tho convenience of Crown settlers. If, when a loan was proposed for the construction of the North Island Main Trunk, railway, and the Otago Central railway, provision was not mado for spending an adequate sum on roads and bridges, he would offer strenuous opposition to the loan proposals. He favoured the freehold tenure, but only on condition, that it was restricted so that a man could not acquire more than a certain area. In any case he would prefer to lose his seat in the House rather than go back to the days of land monopoly. Mr W. CROWTHER (Auckland City) denied the contention frequently made that the operations of tho Advances to Settlors Department had been the means of reducing tho rates of interest. It was undeniable that for good freehold securities the rate was much lower in the Australian colonics. One thing which gave him much disappointment was the failure that had attended the attempts made to develop our local : industries. This ho thought'was due in a great measure to the continual prevalence of strife in tho labour market. In discussing the marine scandal ho regarded the prolongation of tho debate as reprehensible in the' extreme ■and thought/that if Ministers had replied earlier in tho discussion the matter would have been disposed of some time ago. He thought the Minister for Marino was greatly to blame in connection with tho issue of “Captain’’ Jones’s certificate, and, clearly, the 1 Premier was personally implicated. Mr Crowthor denied that Ministers had alright to set up a Royal Commission to inquire into their own conduct. Tho question should have been referred to

the House for direction as to what shape the inquiry should take. Ho expressed the opinion that more information would he acquired by a Parliamentary Committee than by a Royal Commission. The House adjourned for dinner at 5.30 p.m. Mr CHARLES MILLS (Wairau), speaking at the evening sitting, denied the correctness of Mr Crowther’s assertions regarding the rates of interest charged in the colony and in Australia. Ho argued that the reduction which had taken place was attributable to the action of the Government. It Was most unfair for members of the House to condemn the Premier for his alleged connection with the issue of a certificate to “Captain” Jones. They 'should at least wait until they wore in possession of the whole of the facts. The Government had now boon in p'owpr for nine years, and yet the worst charge that could be brought against it was that involved in the marine scandal. Commenting on the atrnudo of Mr John Hutcheson, ho said tha; if a man on his election pledged himself to support a certain party on all crucial ouestions, and then wished to change his position, ho was cither bound to carry' out his pledge or return his trust to those who sent him into Parliament. Mr Hutcheson, he urged, hud placed himself in a false position, and had acted unfairly to his constituents. If what Mr Hutcheson had said about Captain Allman was true he should have impeached him long aso. Mr HUTCHESON: Everybody knew it. Mr MILLS went on to_say that some members were in the habit of saying in the House what they were afraid to say outside. As to the examiner in Sydney who passed Captain Allman for an extra mate’s certificate, the authorities there were rerv much hurt, at such a statement as that made by'Mr John Hutcheson having been made. The charges against Captain Allman came from one man. The PREMIER: A man who applied for the position which Captain Allman got. Mr MILLS said that the aspersions cast on the Civil Service were most unfair, and ho maintained that the Civil Service of New Zealand was as good as any in her Majesty’s colonies. Mr WASON (Sclwyn), speaking of the marine scandal, objected to the suggestion that either the Minister of Marine or Mr Glasgow was guilty of falsehood. He had known two persons como away from viewing an . incident, each with a totally different idea of what had occurred. That was a thing that frequently happened, and ho trusted the majority of members' would agree with him that by the votes they gave they were not accusing either of those gentlemen of falsehood. He congratulated the Premier on his' action in regard to the Samoan trouble, for which he deserved well not only of New Zoa-

land but of the whole of the British Empire. The action of the Government Since last session with reference to the cost of valuations charged to local bodies was to be commended. Speaking of the Legislative Council, lie said it was absolutely impossible to expect independence from that body, seeing that twelve of its members were about to retire by effluxion of time, and were thus practically voting with ropes round their nocks. He conn tended that the -Legislative Council should either bo swept away altogether, or the members should bo elected by the same constituencies as wore the members of the House. Mr HOGG (Masterton) contended that no advantage would accrue to the colony from federation with Australia. As to the Legislative Council, he was of opinion that one chamber was sufficient, but so far from thinking that tnc Council had been degenerated, ho thought it had improved considerably of late years. It did, however, degenerate very rapidly about nine or ten years ago, when a number of gentlemen, who had been defeated at the polls, were stuffed into the Upper House by the late Administration, in order that tho legislation passed by the Lower House —laws demanded by tho people—should not be passed. It was that which necessitated the Council undergoing great alteration In order to bring it more into harmony with the House of Representatives. He spoke against giving settlers the freehold, and urged that the question should be submitted to the people by means of the referendum. Tho freehold would bring about dnee more the reign of landlordism, with financial slavery and pauperism. As to the marine scandal, ho looked upon. it as a very paltry case, but whilst not blaming Mr John’Hutcheson for trying to get the details made public, he disagreed with his action in prejudging the case and endeavouring to bring tho Ministry into contempt and disgrace. Ho defended the co-operative labourers from tho obloquy which had boon cast upon them. They wore, ho sajd. men of independent mind, who would not he turned by a Minister or anyone else from, tho paths of duty, and when it came to a general election they would not bo coerced by anyone, but would give their votes independently, knowing {he ballot was secret.

Mr FRASER (Waka-tipu) said the members of tho Opposition hud increased from nineteen to twenty-nine sinco he entered the House, a few years ago. What evidence could they have better than that of a change of public opinion? With regard to the freehold, he said the Opposition advic-.it-ed that the present system of leasehold should bo continued, and that people should be given the fullest facility for acquiring land, on the easiest terms, but that after they had gone on the land and fulfilled the conditions of residence they might acquire tho freehold. The Premier, he went on to say, had been charged with having on tho Assets Board, as a member Of that board, advocated a reduction of wages. He thought it was only right to state that there was not tho slightest foundation for such a statement. (Hear, hem.) The Premier never did anything of Ho kind; neither did 1 the Board. The reduction was mado in the month of April, 1895, before the board came into operation. The lion, member then went on to speak of Mr Meredith’s attack on tho Assets Board. Ho remarked that last session Mr Meredith had urged the Government to sell the (Men Tui estate at once, on the ground tha* offers had been made for it, but as a

matter of fact Mr Meredith had then offered the board £2 6s 6d an acre for 1000 acres, the pick of the estate, - The offer was declined, and when the land was put up for sale, that portion realised £6 an acre. As to the marine scandal,'he did not believe.-the Premier, when he sent -the telegram from Auckland, imagined 1 that such shocking results would have followed. But if that telegram had not been sent, he was sure ■)those results would- neverhave come about. ' There should be an innuiry as to how far the actions of the Premier and the Minister of Marine had influenced those who hid erred in this matter. / Mr MEREDITH said the in questiofi was in his electorate. When ho made the offer to the Assets, Realisation Board he had no idea of- the land tax valuation, and ho offered to purchase a portion of the estate at the laud tax valuation, plus finer cent. The offer was declined. "Where, he asked, was there anything wrong in his action?

Mr WILSON (Wellington Suburbs), in dealing with the Addrcss-in-Rcply, could not share in the approbation which had been showered on the Government with regard to its action over the Samoan difficulty. The proposal to extend the provisions’* of the Advances to Settlors Office in order that they might embrace urban and suburban lands would, he felt sure, be popularly received in the city of Wellington. He urged the Government to bo careful as to the manner in which it dealt with the rales of interest. The department was looked upon with favour by the neighbouring colony of New South'Wales. So far as the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act was concerned, he recognised that there was much dissatisfaction both among employers and employees as to its administration, and hoped that the appointment of a special judge to the Arbitration Court would bo no longer delayed.' Ho congratulated' the Government on its appointment of Sir Robert Stout to the office of Chief Justice. . Passing on to the question of native lands, Mr Wilson said he was confident that it would be a wise thing to individualise the native titles. The Referendum Bill found favour with tb e speaker, who also drew the attention of members to the necessity of 'passing a creditable Technical Education Bill. The Government should treat the Victoria University College with more consideration. All- that was asked was that it should bo nut on a fair footing with other educational institutions in the colony. It was only reasonable to ask that Mount Cook should be made over to the college, which, being in the capital of the colony, should have a suitable home. Discussing public works, Mr Wjlson supported the completion of the North Island Trunk line, and made reference to the Hu ft and Te Arn-Island Bay lines, on which there should be a larger expenditure of public funds. The marine scandal bo was afraid had become somewhat tiresome, but lie justi- ' fled the removal of the inquiry from the House, which was necessarily made up of .members biased on one side or the other'. He believed Mr John Hutcheson to be one of the straightest and most sincere men in Wellington, but he 'was afraid Mr Hutcheson had been rather unwise or precipitate. The speech made by the Minister of Marine had served to remove a great deal of suspicion from the public mind. As ho other member desired to address the House, the question that the amendment to the Address-in-Reply proposed by Captain Russel 1 bo agreed to, was put by the Speaker. The House divided, with the result that the amendment was negatived by 36 votes to 29. The division list is as follows ; ' Ayes (for the amendment), 29—J. Allen (Bruce), Bollard, Buchanan. Carson, Crowther, Duthic, Fraser, Homes, Hunter, J. Hutcheson (City of Wellington), G. Hutchison (Patea), Kelly, Lang, Lethbridge. Lewis. McGuire. M. J. S. Mackenzie (City of Dunedin), McLean,

Massey, Monk, Moore, Pirani, Rawlins, Rolleston, , Sqgo, Smith, Taylor, J. W. Thomson (Clutha), Wright. Noes (against the amendment), 36. E. G. Allen, Cadman, Camcross, Carroll, Duncan, Field, Fisher, Flatman, Oilfedder, Graham, Guinness, HallJones, Hogg. Holland, Houston, Joyce, Kaihau, Lawry, McGowan, R. McKenzie, McNab, Meredith, Millar, Mils, Morrison, O’Meara, O’Regan, Parata, Pere, Scddon, Stevens, Steward, Symes, Tanner, R. Thompson, Wilson. Pairs. —For tho amendments—Russell, Brown, Wason, Hoke. Against _ the amendment- —J. McKenzie, IVa-rd, Montgomery, T. Thompson. N,, ( MR JOHN HUTCHESON RESIGNS. * Immediately after the result of the division had been announced by the Speaker, Mr JOHN HUTCHESON (Wellington City) rose in his place and said;— Mr Speaker—Sir, may I make a personal explanation? Tho Speaker: Personal explanations aro always allowed. Mr HUTCHESON" said ; When I was returned to this House in 1896 I made a certain pledge, which was that when I could no longer follow this Government I would render back my trust. That time has now arrived, and in addition to that I have the added incentive of being accused by a Minister of the Crown of being faithless to my pledges, of being a degenerated Labour member, here for the sake of a few paltry pounds, of being a handy man and loblolly boy, and the tool of capitalists. The SPEAKER: That is scarcely a personal explanation., Mr HUTCHESON : It is now my duty to hand you my resignation as a member of this honourable House. (Loud and long-continued applause.) Mr Hutcheson thereupon handed his resignation to the Speaker and left the Chamber. Mr McGUIRE: The scandal is not yet buried. Mr PIRA’NI: What about the verdict of tho people of Wellington? The SPEAKER read the resignation handed in by Mr Hutcheson as follows; “I beg herewith to tender you my resignation as a member of tho House of Representatives, dating as from today.—l am, sir, yours respectfully, John Hutcheson.’’ Mr TANNER (with emphasis): And a good man, too. (Applause.) Tho PREMIER; I will move -the usual motion to-morrow. On the motion of Mr JJolland, tho debate was adjourned, and the House roso at 11.50 p.m.