THE FEDERAL CONVENTION.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 999, 24 April 1891, Page 32

THE FEDERAL CONVENTION.

RETURN OF SIR HARRY ATKINSON. (by OUR SPECIAL REPORTER.) Having received the Editor’s instructions I called upon Sic Harry Atkinson, and was glad to see him looking much better than the telegraphed accounts represented _ him. It was my pleasure therefore to begin by congratulating him on his appearance, and assuring him that a large number of people would be glad to hear that he was so much heartier than they had been led to believe. Sir Eiarry, after thanking me for that expression of goodwill, said that he had not been well in Sydney ; not well enough to take advantage of the many kindnesses offered him with the other delegates, but I gathered that he had been able with an effort to attend to the business which had taken him over to Sydney. He was kind enough, to intimate that any information on the Bubject of that business wbioh he was at liberty to give was at my disposal. We plunged therefore at once “in medias res.’, The first point of course was as to the opinion Sir Harry had been reported to have expressed. Yes, he had been quite correctly reported. He was very decidedly of opinion that New Zealand would be a gainer in every way by Federating with Australia, but not under the Constitution Bill which had juat been adopted by the Convention. The financial position under that measure would be absolutely impossible. Without counting our sharfl in the expense of Federation, we lose largely by joining. The Customs revenue would be so much less under the Federation.

I pointed out that you, Mr Editor, had taken up this point, by comparing the results of the Victorian tariff and our own; that you had shown there would be a loss, supposing the Victorian tariff to be the tariff adopted by the Federal Legislature ; and oalling upon the Government to get the particulars calculated. “That,” said Sir Harry, “has already been done by the Government Statist at Sydney for the Convention. Speaking from memory, I cannot give you the exact figures; but I can give you a substantially correct version. Under our tariff we collected last year something like £1,500,000. the Victorian tariff to be substituted for our own the Customs would, according to the Government Statist, who has calculated the particulars on all the items, give us £400,000 less. It is plain that unless the Colonial Debt bs taken over as well as the Customs revenue we cannot meet our obligations. But as the scheme of Federation does not propose to take over the debts of the various colonies it is impossible for us to join.” After some conversation on this subject, in the course of which Sir Harry expressed bis regret that we had not sent over seven delegates as the other colonies did, we got to the question of the Federal Executive. “ The Bill does not provide for responsible ■government aB far as I can see” I remarked. Sir Harry explained the position at once. It was qnite true he said in effect that the Convention did not provide for a responsible Government. Nevertheless the opinion of the great, majority of the Convention was that responsible Government would fee adopted. 1 bey were not so much enamoured of Responsible Government as to be persuaded that nothing better could be devised. Criticisms, he reminded me, were very freely levelled in these days at the system of Responsible Government. The Convention did not wish to tie the hands of the Federal Legislature. The law given to that Legislature, the Convention thought, should leave the question open for the Legislature to deal with. He had no doubt, and nobody else had any doubt, but that the system of Responsible Government would be estab> lished, just as it was established in New Zealand, though the Constitution Act did not provide for it, established when “ we, the Commons of New Zealand,” as many colonists remember, insisted upon it. But the Federal Bill left the question open for any amendment that might be discovered and adopted in the future. The Federal Constitution Act would not cut the Federation off from any improvements. That was the position. As to the loyalty of the Australians, which was naturally the next question to come up, Sir Harry could say that un. doubtedly the Convention, with one or perhaps two exceptions, was absolutely loyal.to the Crown and perfectly sincere in its desire and intention to federate under the Crown. As to the feeling of the people, he could not, of course, speak with the same knowledge. There Is of course a National Party in every Colony. As far as he could gather, its feeling about the Imperial connexion might be turned either way at any time. It might become enthusiastically loyal—the stress of a great war might do that —or it might be replaced by a desire to be independent ; that result any stupidity of mismanagement might produce; like the coercion poliov, for instance, now threatened in the case of Newfoundland. The Australians certainly would not stand coercion in any shape or form. The popular mind, atpresent, as far as Sir Harry could gather, was not of a pronounced character ; but his impression wa~ absolutely clear that the Convention desired union under the Crown. The impression having been formed in my mind that if we had sent seven delegates to represent us the Australians might have solved the financial difliculty l>y accepting the principle of Federallsing the debts, I gave expression to it during the talk. feir Harry explained that he had not meant to convey that impression. “ Every publio man who stays at home gets looal,” he said, “inevitably. We want our pnblio men to see other publio men, to exohange ideas with them, and get acquainted with the interests they represent. There waa not a public man who went to the Convention that did not go away much improved in many ways.” _ , , We came to the reasons why New Zealand should join the Federation. France and Germany, Sir Harry said I give the general drift of his remarks— have their eyes on the islands of the South Sea, with Intent to become powerful there, Without

combination we have no power either to move rapidly against danger ourselves or to get the Home Government to move rapidly. If seven of us are giving different views to the Home Government, it is an exouse for them to do nothing, and they will do nothing. Whereas a combination representing four millions cannot be pooh-poohed. That Australia will Federate is certain ; it may or may not be under this Bill; some say it will be, and some say it will not—“ for my part I have hopes that the Bill will succeed,” said Sir Harry—but Australian Federation in some shape or form is certain. Jf three millions of Australians speak with one voice, who will hear Nev? Zealand ? “We shall become like Newfoundland ; and our interests in the Islands will be completely overlooked.”

The commercial advantages would of necessity be great ; we should not only get the advantage of the abolition of the fiscal system under which we now pay £144,000 a year on our produce in Australian ports and only colleot £IB,OOO in return on Australian produce in ours; we should also find that the trade in these lines would very largely increase. Referring to the objection made, that Federation would sink us into a provincial groove, deprive us of our best public men and so forth ; Sir Harry said that the same thing had been said here wroDgly as events had proved against the abolition of the provinces. To him it seemed that the very fact of belonging to a larger organisation would raise our impoitanoe. “I should not feel half the man I am, if it were not in my power to say ‘ I am an Englishman.’ If we join a powerful combination we raise our ideas and our standing. Of course I should still want to remain an Englishman.” Sir Harry having thus spoken proceeded to give a number of illustrations. A man, for instance, who belongs to the Senior United Service Club is a more important man than if he belonged to the Junior ; the differences are well known between men who have never got beyond a private school, and those who have stopped short after a public school course, and those who have gone on to the university. An Englishman never says he is a county man, but he says, when he wants to define his position in the world, “1 am an Englishman;” he does not say “ x am a man of Kent, or Surrey, or Devon,” as the case may be. The American States are not dwarfed by thrir union, their public men are, on the contrary, greatly enlarged in mind, and their large cities, like New York, Baltimore, Boston, have not a provincial standing. Having gone through his progression of illustrations Sir Harry made it very plain that ho had not much respect for the objections of the timorous. We pass from Federation to the appearance of Sydney and its people. A great town, certainly. Sir Harry went there in 1883, when the Federation idea first took definite shape. He and Sir Frederick Whitaker represented us on that occasion. Visiting the place in 1891, had he observed any change ? He had observed a very great improvement. The display of wealth was surprising, and the commercial activity aud bustle. Nobody ever thinks of stopping to look at a European steamer coming in. They arrive with the frequency of the interprovincial steamers here, and get no more notice from the people. There are all the signs of a vast commerce, great warehouses full, tall buildings, handsome structures, crowded streets, the traffic in the main thoroughfares of Pitt street and George street, is as great every bit at times as in any part of London. The streets are paved beautifully with wooden blocks, smooth and hard, and they are kept wonderfully clean ; far better are the roadways than tbs footways, in which there ia something to be desired. Poverty ? Yes ; there was plenty ot that too; shoeless, ragged children, aud all the signs of penury, things not seen in our streets.

But what struck Sir Harry the most was the appearance of the race. There was no sign that he could see of the deterioration of the Anglo-Saxon. Stalwart men and handsome women everywhere abound. Men of the second aud third generations of colonists he saw, in every respect like Englishmen, only larger considerably than the English average. As for the proverbial “Cornstalk” ha never saw him at all. Even the ohildreu ? Yes, even the children. There was a school of 1500 children close to where he lived his windows commanded a view of their playground, and he had seen them trooping briskly to school and away again in the evenings. A finer, healthier, rosier set of young people he bad never seen in New Zealand. As for the people, they showed no signs of suffering from the climate ; moving always briskly about, alert, and vigourous. “ The climate,” I observed, “ waR after all only trying for a month or two in Sydney.” “ We found it tryiug enough when we were there,” Sir Harry said, “ Captain Russell and I. We felt it enervating, and very hot, but in the latter particular the thermometer positively refused to agree with us. No doubt it was very wrong of the instrument. But the people, with their brisk ways, certainly seemed to corroborate its verdict.” Mention of the lamentable explosion in the harbour found us in agreement on the moral of the Btory, which is that amateurs should not be employed in the technical branches of the Service, and carried us to the subject of the colonial forces, “ A very fine body body of men,” Sir Harry said they were, fit to go on any service—most of them maintained on the partially-paid system ; excellent material for Boldiering.” Had he seeii any New Zealanders? A good many, and heard of a good many more. Some were doing fairly well, others were doing very badly, others rubbing along in the intermediate unsatisfactory stage ; all he saw and many he heard of were anxious for an opportunity to get back to the “ Land of the Maori and the Moa.” Here it sttuck me that I had trespassed enough on Sir Harry’s time and privacy. So with many inward regrets at being forced to break off a pleasant conversation, I thanked him for his courtesy and took my leave. (PER PRESS ASSOCIATION.) Melbourne, April 18. Mr D. Munro - addressed his constituentgjastnight,and spoke enthusiastically

in praise of the Federal Constitution. He said that during the sittings of the Federal Convention Sir George Grey was very troublesome, as he would persist in dragging in his pet theory of one man one vote, in and out of season. In questioning Lord Knutsford in the House of Lords to-day on the result of the National Convention in Sydney, Lord Norton said though many thought the Bill introduced in the Convention showed an intentional departure from the British Constitution, be believed the closest possible reproduction of the Home Constitution had been arrived at. Lord Knutsford replied that everyone was sensible of the good common sense and sound judgment displayed at the Convention.

London, April 19. Replying to a question in the House of Lords to-day, Lord Knutsford stated that he was unable at present to lay on the table a record of the proceedings of the National Convention in Sydney, because they were incomplete.