PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume L, Issue 15390, 27 August 1913, Page 10

PARLIAMENT.

PUBLIC TRUST BILL.

DISCUSSED IN COMMIT

TRUSTEE'S LIABILITY

INDEMNIFYING CLAU!

SOME ADVERSE COMMENT

[BY TELEGBATH. VBXSS ASSOCIATION.]

'.' Wellington, Tuesday. -,;V/; : Th=: House of Representatives met at 2.30 flfS p.m. The Irrigation Water Supply Bill was introduced by Governor's Message. la .:;YsjS reply to Mr. G. W. Russell (Avon), the .J',; Prime Minister (the Hon. W. F. Massey);jl|| said the Bill proposed to appropriate a ;|*| sum of not mom than .15100,000 for opening up lands for settlement lin .rid territories, '-"i principally in Central - Otago. In reply to Wa further inquiries, the Hot;. James Allen 11 said that for some years pact the amount '-'}, allocated for this purpose had, been put into the Appropriation Bill, but the Go- "Jm vernment thought it better to show '|i exactly what was being done 'with the ;y"| money, and so it was being ; put into ay; separate Bill. .. ... - • -«j The House then went into committee on the Public Trust Office Amendment Bill. During the discussion on the thort 1 title, 1 the Hon. A. L. Herdman, in reply to Mr. ~', Russell, declined to disclose" th*, evidence' *"-.; taken by the recent-, Public Trust Office "- ; Commission, that evidence having been' -. given under a distinct promise-: that it ,";?:' would be treated as confidentiaL At all later stage, Mr. Russell elicited the. fact .', : that the Minister had seen the evidence, '.v, whereupon he declared the position -was- I ' ; most unfair to those who had given evi- I dence, under the pledge of secrecy, that "\-V their statements should be handed to the --) Minister, and possibly be made subject to '|| , review by the Cabinet. He contrasted Una- -,| position with that taken up by the Public ';] r Service Commission tinder the Mackenzie Go- IS vernment which did not baud to the Go- ;-}M vernment the evidence given under the bond, v.V;: of confidence. Ho contended that as a member of Parliament he had as much right to see confidential evidence «<$ the Minister bad. The short title was'then passed, and in Clause 3 the personnel of the board ! ■was, on the motion of the Minister, amended, so. as to ; include the .Minister *| ' for finance. The proposal 'to include" two non-official - members on the l»oard, excited considerable criticism, and Mr. R. McCallum (Wairau)'.\,?W moved to so amend the clause as to ensure |&:£ ; the appointees coming'- from the ■ Public Service, The amendment was lost on■ the':-;':V-voices. v ' ' W' . ■ Retrospective Clause Disputed. ' "vWhen the House resumed, the consideration of the Bill in the evening, Mr. Mo- ' Galium moved .to strike out Clause ; : 25, indemnifying: the Public Trustee in cases -f'p ; •where he accepted, in error, hut in good faith, any written-statement or statutory : . .>-< declaration as to a birth, death, marriage, -H'';;* or other matter of descent or relationship,' .-'js or other matter of fact .upon, which, the ' ' _. title to any estate or any part thereof may,' -./.-: depend. The section to be '» retrospective j f:'i% to the passing of, the principal Act. He 1 contended that this protection should not be given to the Public Trustee unless the '•. :.v£ Minister . was. prepared to; protect •. private- .| trustees in ■ the same way.'. He claimed ' 1 that the House should not pass retrospec- .:'.■:■}.', tive legislation, of this kind without know- , ing more about it. ; The Minister explained thai the: clause. .-'.-. was copied from the English Act, ; ami was;: working well ,there.;..;. Cases ;had, ; occurred in 'the history of '. the office where ,on the •:'-:?; strength of statutory declarations the wrong persons had been .paid, and it was : necessary to protect'the Public Trustee in, .' ■<, cases of that kind. The Hon. D. Buddo (Kaiapoi) said;;theM clause would undermine public confidence, ; , in the office. The Public Trustee should : j protect himself in the same way as a private trustee did —by indemnity. . Mr. Russell "protested against, the passing of retrospective legislation.'i Mr. E. A. Lee (Oamaru) contended I :thaVSSsag the clause was not framed to protect'the " Public Trustee, but to protect the Public ;, Trust Fund from: liability. .• v v; : •■','vV : '■? IW (Mr. McCallum ■. contended > that the clause« : "§m in the Imperial statute was not applied 'mmc||3 the same way as it was 1 introduced into thisVßill. '• There; it applied only to : the r- £ S\: custodian trustee; and not to the'admiwatrative trustee. '■-. " . ,; Mr. Herdman,contended that the clause p was necessary to the efficient working of ■;-:';.' 51' the office. There were cases pending at ;, '■) the present time into -which' the element of doubt entered, and this clause would : -. enable the' trustee to settle, these cases more expeditiously than would otherwise be the case. ' '•;" ■- ..;;;'. .; ', Limiting Operation to Small Estates. t'+~< ■:■:.■■■ Mr. W. A. Veiteh (Wanganui) suggested, limiting the operation of the; clause to the" y smaller estates. The Minister said .he-was '. -V prepared to make the clause operative only in estates not exceeding £500 in value. He . was also prepared to strike out the retro- V-v..C spective part of the clause. . _ ', The Opposition was scarcely mollified by ;• these , concessions, their contention , being that the smaller estates, were tho vary ones that ought to bo exempt' from the opera- - tion of the clause, that discrimination be- (,\»;f' tween the large and snail estates would bo ■•;:>;; fatal to the business of the office, and thai if one class of estates were exempt then ■ all ! . '.s' should be exempt. A • division was : then taken .on the■ ques-,." r ;.; tion of amending .the "clause in, the direc- ' _ tion suggested' by the Minister, Tho voting being ayes 41, noes 19, the clause was " -' amended. . \ Mr. Russell then moved an amendment - .; to provide that the clause shall not ab- , solve the Public-Trustee from any'liability ; which he would be required to discharge if :Zo?f he-were a private trustee. -On a division : --- the amendment was lost by 44 to 16. •-*. ' :;!; :, The Bill was reported with amendments. The committee considered the Pensions ij; Bill, which .gassed through with machinery amendments. | The House rose at 12.50 a.m. ; .'■ . ■ ■ ■, - ■-'- '■■~.-'.-■ -: : '' '■■■'•■■.-' .■ .-.'■•--..■.;■-;'■'■ .--■ •-■'r-T. ; :'"-"■.■■.,'-■ .-...'::-.- T'l^'*.,: