PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXVI, Issue 11150, 24 August 1899, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

[by telegraph.—press association.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday. The Council met at half-past two p.m. The Heathcote Road District Sanitation Bill was read a second time. The Minister for Education stated that he would move next day to have the Young Persons' Protection Bill referred to the Select Committee. The Council adjourned at a-quarter to three p.m. HOUSE OF representative::. Wednesday. The House met at half-past two p.m. NEW BILLS. The Trustee Act, 1883, Amendment and Linwood Borrowing Bills were introduced and read a first time. THE MINISTER FOR LANDS. Leave of absence was granted to the Hon. J. McKenzie, on account of his absence in England. THE BUDGET DEBATE.

Mr. Kelly resumed the debate on the Financial Statement, confining himself principally to a criticism of the marine scandal, and what he termed the "famous report of the Commissioners. That report, he said, contained a statement which was untrue, viz., that the member for Palmerston had refused to give evidence. Another grossly inaccurrate statement in the report was with regard to what the Premier said took place between him and the late Captain Fairchild. The Commissioners altered the statement of the Premier in their report, displaying either a singularly intermittent memory, or a desire tc relieve the Premier and Mr. Hall-Jones from a difficultv, he left the public to say which. Another extraordinary statement was in regard to the conversation that was alleged to have taken place in the cabin of the Duchess, on the occasion of the famous picnic to Day's Bay. The evidence given by the Premier and Mr. Hall-Jones showed that their memory was as bad as that of the Commissioners, and that was saying a great deal, but before he (Mr. Kelly) had finished, he would prove that that evidence was incorrect. He believed that had Captain Allman not received a Ministerial promise that they would " see him through," the confidential admissions made by Captain Allman would never have been made. Passing on to the Budget, Mr. Kelly said that the annual increase in the expenditure was growing beyond the power of the colony to bear, and the time was coining when they would have to restrict their expenditure, and the successors to the present Administration would have the invidious task of adopting a policy of retrenchment, with a result similar to that which befell the Atkinson Government, when it adopted such a policy. The question of further borrowing should be held over until aft& the general election, with % view to giving the constituencies an opportunity of giving an opinion on the subject. Mr. Houston followed. THE PREMIER'S REPLY.

Mr. Seddon replied on the debafe. He said the debate had come to an unexpected conclusion. Still he was ready to reply. With the exception of one or two unpleasant episodes no fault could be found with the criticism to which the Budget had been subjected. It was necessary that there should be criticism of Government measures, particularly of the Financial Statement, but he thought that could be indulged in without introducing personal references, which he deprecated. With the exceptions of Messrs. Duthie, Allen, and Fraser, however, the Opposition's criticisms of the Statement had played a minor part, and the discussion had ranged over all sorts of subjects. The criticisms in some cases had put the Statement in a wrong _ light before the country. One of the mis-state-ments was admitted to be wrong, but it was difficult to overtake such statements when they got a start. Captain Russell had denied that the colony was in a prosperous state, and had prophesied coming disaster, but disaster had not yet come. Mr. Rrlleston, on the other hand, stated on the public platform that the colony had never been in such a prosperous state as at present. How were these contradictory statements of the leaders of the Opposition to be reconciled? It was not fair on the part ol Captain Russell to say the exports from the colony were greater 10 years ago than during the last year. Last year's exports totalled three-quarters of a million more i than the exports of 1890, and had the value of produce been the same last ye.ir as in 1890 the value of the exports last year would | have been over £13,000,000. Some (f the speeches by Government supporters had made the task easy of replying generally to adverse criticism. The inclusion of the land fund in the consolidated fund had been forced upon the Government. The statement that the tenure of the loans floated by the Government was much longer than that adopted by other colonies was not correct, as he had proved by quotations, and, notwithstanding the advantage given to lenders in the last loan in the way of advance of interest, the loan came out the best of any that had been floated. Compared with the other colonies, the loans floated by New Zealand were in favour of the latter. The conversion scheme reduced the payment as interest by a large sum. With respect to the statement that the Stock Exchange had refused a quotation for New Zealand loans, he asserted that the Stock Exchange had never been asked, and had never refused a quotation. Was it wise, he asked, 01 patriotic for members to make such statements which were damaging to the credit of the colony and would result in the taxpayers of the colony being saddled with further expense? The Government was bound last year to raise a million loan to carry 011 public works. He stated that the Stock Exchange was working satisfactorily with the Agent-General and the loan agents, and claimed that by the manner in which the loan was raised a saving was effected to the colony of £10,000 in brokerage. With regard to the charge that the Government had reduced the interest in the Post Office Savings Bank, he contended that the money was better employed in providing a week's instead of a day's work for the industrial classes in lieu of the extra half per cent, for money they deposited there. He. ooncluded by stating that the finance of the colony tvas absolutely assured and sound, and that he believed in a surplus, and would always endeavour to show one. A motion to go into Supply was then carried, and on the first item being called the House adjourned at half-past five p.m. The House resumed at half-past seven p.m. in Committee of Supply.

, THE ESTIMATES. At the first item on the Estimates called upon, viz., Legislative Council, £1870, Mr. Taylor moved to report progress. Before the Estimates were gone on with he would like to know what provision would be made for dealing with private members' Bills, and the discussion of the Wrigg and marine scandals.

Mr. Hall-Jones said the House had been debating every question under the sun during the last fortnight, The House had been in session eight weeks and had not yet done any business. Captain Russell said he was quite ready to go on with the business, but he first wanted to have some idea as to when the Public Works Estimate would be brought down, and when the House would be given an opportunity to discuss the Marine Commissioners' report and the Wrigg case. The Premier said it was not for Captain Russell to dictate to the majority of the House. He might block the business of the House, but he would not dictate to him (Mr. Seddon) as to what business he should bring 011. The House had now been eight weeks in session, and the question was whether the House would do any business in the most important session of the present Parliament. They had already devoted 14 days to the discussion of the marine scandal.

Mr. J. Hutfiheson and Mr. Pirani supported the motion. The former urged that the amendment of the Shipping and Seamen Act was a matter of great urgency. Mr. Eolleston also supported the motion, objecting to the rights of private members being taken away. The Premier said that certain estimates were in course of preparation, and as soon as they were ready he would give the House an opportunity to discuss the Marine Commissioners' report. With regard to the Wrigg case, he would also give an opportunity to discuss that question as soon as certain Bills were considered from the Council. Before bringing down . the Public Works Estimates they should consider a Loan Bill, and ha thought if the Bill jvere

passed lie could promise to have the Public Works Estimates within a fortnight. The motion to report progress was lost, and the discussion on the first item continued. , , , Mr. Buchanan complained that certain returns asked for by bim bad not been tabled. He denied the Premiers claim that he had been instrumental in reducing the freights on produce shipped to tog--13 The Premier reiterated his claim to having effected reduction in freights, and stated further that as soon as the term for which the agreement made with the shipping companies had expired the freights went up to the old rates. Mr. Duthie pointed out that the agreement made' by the Government with the shipping companies was most advantageous to the latter, as the Government had to guarantee full ships, and empty space was to be charged at the rate of 25s per ton. With regard to the Public Works Estimates he considered that it was reversing the proper order of things to pass the Loan Bill before the Estimates were brought down. He complained that the House had not had an opportunity of discussing the question of opening up trade with South Africa, and urged that a first-class steamship service between Wellington and Sydney should be subsidised in connection with the Federal mail service. Mr. Moore said that no fewer than 12 steamers had left Lyttelton carrying freights at reduced rates before the Premier's cortract with the Tvser Company came into force, with the additional advantage that no guarantee as to space was necessary. Mr. Buchanan denied the statement that lie had sacrificed the interests of the dairy industry in the matter of freights to those of wool and meat, and detailed his efforts in the direction of reducing freight on all three. Mr. J. Hutcheson referred to the competition that the owners of sailing vessels were subjected to against Scandinavian-manned vessels, the crews of which were paid onehalf the amount that the crews of the former vessels were paid. He referred to other directions in which the Shipping and Seamen Act should be amended in the interests of seaman, and also in the interests of the youths of the colony who had a bent for a seafaring life. Mr. Seddon said he wished to see the shipping laws as perfect as possible, and was prepared to do all that he possibly could in the direction of protecting the lives of seamen, and relieving them as much as possible of the hardships of their work. Mr. Meredith said the feeling of farmers was fiat the Government was entitled to a deal of credit for making arrangements with the Tyser Company for reduced freights. Mr.' Field contended that two meat companies in Wellington had drawn a higher percentage from the producers than they were fairly entitled to, and considered that the Government was entitled to credit for reducing the rate of freights. Mr. Hogg considered that the two Wellington meat companies were huge monopolies and were reaping profits at the expense of the farmer. Mr. Buchanan stated that every farmer was free to choose his market. All that the meat export companies did was to freeze the meat at so much per lb. irrespective of the number of sheep treated. A discussion on the Marine Commission report was carried on by Messrs. Hutcheson, Pirani, Hall-Jones, and the Premier.

The first item was passed. ■ The House rose at ten minutes to two this morning.