BOARD OF CONCILIATION.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXIV, Issue 10609, 25 November 1897, Page 3

BOARD OF CONCILIATION.

SEAMEN'S UNION CLAIMS. • Yesterday, at the Supreme Court Buildings, the Board of Conciliation for the Auckland Industrial District sat in reference to applications lodged by the Federated Seamen's and Firemen's Union of New Zealand, The members of the Board present were the Rev. G. Burgess (chairman), and Messrs. Shera and Lucas. Mr. Fawcus (an employees' representative on the Board) did not sit, as Mr. J. J. Holland, M.H.R. (an employers' representative) was unable to be present owing to Parliamentary duties. ORDERS 'OF REFERENCE. The Clerk of Awards (Mr. Thomas) read the orders of reference. The first set forth that the dispute existed between the Auckland branch of the Federated Seamen's Union and the Clevedon Steam Navigation Company, the Onehunga and Waiuku Steam Navigation Company, Mr. Parker, and Mr. Holgate. The reference set forth that whereas the aforesaid shipowners had been asked to pay the same rates and observe the same conditions as those already arranged under the finding of the Board of Conciliation in the case of the Northern Steamship Company and others, the first - named company had intimated its inability to comply with such terms, and the others had not replied. The second order of reference was between the Seamen's Union and the Northern S.S. Company, Captain McGregor, Captain D. Shaw, Captain Braidwood, and Messrs. Leyland and O'Brien. The application set forth that on the 12th of August a dispute was referred to the Board, the object of which was to secure increased wages and improved conditions for certain employees of the firms and companies mentioned, that the Board adjudicated upon such dispute, and made certain recommendations in favour of the employees, which were agreed to, that upon the agreement being submitted to the employers for signature all declined to sign such agreement on the ground that a condition had not been complied with which was attached to the finding of the Board. The application was to show cause why the Board's previous decision had not been complied with. (The condition referred to was that the terms would be complied with provided that owners of vessels propelled by power other than sails would be brought under the same regulations,) Mr. Belcher and Mr. Marks represented theunion; Mr. C. Ranson, the Northern S.S. Company; fit. McGregor, Captain McGregor; Mr. TO. Niccol, Captain Shaw (s.s. Terranora); Mr. Leyland, Messrs. Leyland and O'Brien; Mr. Caleb Hoskings, the Onehunga and Waiuku Company; Mr. E. W. Alison, the Clevedon Company; Mr. W. J. Parker was present in person ; Mr. Hoigate was stated to be away in Australia, the probability being that he had not received the notice. Some preliminary discussion took place as to the order in which the cases should be taken. The Chairman said the Board had decided to deal with the case of the Clevedon Steam Navigation Company, and others included in the first order; the following day they would hold a conference with the Northern S.S. Company and others in the second order, and with the representatives of the Union, with a view bo the settlement of the matter. Mr. Ranson : I respectfully ask that you hear our case to day. We have come here at a very great deal of inconvenience, and wo are prepared to meet the case. Mr. Leyiand said their case was quite an exceptional one; it was quite separate and distinct from the others. This case could be settled in a very few minutes. Mr. Belcher very much regretted the Board had come to the decision to adopt the courso seated. There had been a dispute already before the Board, and that was now in a state of indefinitenoss; it would be preferable to have that settled before dealing with persons cited subsequently, If necessary he would ask for an adjournment, so that the original case could come | on first. j The Chairman : Are the contentions subI stantially the same in the second case as in the first? Mr. Belcher: They aro exactly the same. The Chairman, having intimated that the case of Loyland and O'Brien would be taken separately, said the Board would then adjourn, in order to allow of a conference between it, the representatives of the Northern Steamship Company, and others cited in the same order, and the representatives of the union. The conference was then hold in camera, being finally adjourned until Friday. ONF.HONGA ANn waiuku S.S. CO. On resuming in the afternoon the Board went into the cases cited in the first order, the first case taken being thab of the Oneiiunga and Waiuku S.S. Company. Mr. Belcher said this company had been brought before the Board with the object of getting an opinion as to whether they should pay the same of wages, etc., as the shipowners who had been before the Board previously. He was not going to open the whole question; what the union asked was that the recommendations of the Board in reference to other shipowners should be mado to apply to the present case. Some of those cited lived outside Auckland, and ho had not had an opportunity of seeing them personally. He, however, had written, and the reply in this instance had been adverse. He (the spe*kor) wished those present to distinctly understand they had been brought before the Board at the instigation of fellow shipowners, Tha stop had been taken to secure uniformly equitable conditions. It 'had been the union's intention to take action in regard to these firms. Tho 1896 Shipping Act gave any individual employed by a shipowner tho right to proceed in a Court of law for the current rates of wages existing in New Zealand. Thab had been the means they had intended to adopt; they, however, had been compelled to bring them before the Board. In this instance the vessel concerned was the Weka whose trade was purely " inside" trade and within the limits of the Manukau Harbour. So far as lie could ascortain the Weka carried two men who wore paid £6 a month; one man was also engaged as fireman at £6 a month, and the men had to maintain themselves out of this. The wages thus were not adequate for the work performed. The trade, Mr. Belcher went on, was purely a tidal one; that was to say the vessel had to leave one end of a journey at a time that would allow of her arriving at the destination while there was sufficient water to float her. That necessitated the men working somewhat similarly to the Northern S.S. Company. The variance of tides of course made a difference of one hour to one hour and a-quarter, and after working all day perhaps at the wharf they bad to go away. There was also a considerable amount of night work. As foroverbime the union did not ask for it only in exceptional circumstances which the Board could take into consideration afterwards. In justice to the men and to other shipowners the Board should make some recommendations; the cost of food for the men would be at least 10s a week. That brought the wages down to £4 a month, which was not sufficient for a single man, let alone a married man. He understood that the trade of the Weka was a payable one, and she had not to face competition. Mr. Hoskings said Mr. Belcher-was fairly correct in regard to the position of the company, but lie evidently was nob acquainted intimately with the circumstances of the company; as a matter of facb, they had no seamen on the vessel. They were intelligent men from the district who wanted to get ,on the vessel 'as a stopping stone to something larger. It had been so for years, and they had names on their books of men of the district anxious to get on the boat. The company had been in existence 17 years, and there was nob much to boast of in the .way of earnings. They had a pretty large overdraft since' building the new vessel, and the wages they paid were fairly equivalent for the work- performed. The men had always had a fair share of the earnings of the boat. For many years there had been no dividends whatever. At the present time, they were doing better, and the trade was increasing. If, the com-' pany were free of debt, he had no doubt the shareholders would increase the men's wages. As things stood, they had three deck hands; the oldest got £8, the next £7, and the other £6 a month.' The fireman also got £6, the engineer £17 6s 3d, and the captain £15. : He was prepared to work the boat on co-operative lines, Mr. Belcher had put the cost of living, too high. .• The Chairman asked what were ordinary , seamen's wages?

Mr. Belcher said there were ordinary 1 seamen in the true sense of the word whc were getting £4 a month; but where thej were doing men's work, as in this instance, they got £5 a month. ' The Chairman: As far as you know £5 is 1 the highest ? Mr. Belcher: Yes. Passing on, he asked , if the men in the Weka did not do the same , work as an able seaman in other vessels?. • Mr. Hoskings said he did nob considfli the man to whom he paid £8 a month was equal to an able seaman. Mr. Belcher asked if the men did nob dc the same work as an able seaman in the Weka? There were hundreds of men on steamers classed as able seamen who were similar to those spoken of by Mr. Hoskings, Was not the £8 a month man the mate? Mr. Hoskings said they called him a mate, but it was' nob necessary for the Weka to carry a mate. This man had more responsibility than the others, and was paid more. The company had increased the pay of two of their men £1 a month in the pasb few months without being applied to for it. Mr. Belcher 'asked if the fireman had always been paid £6 a month 1 Mr. Hoskings said no; their engineer used to do the firing, but he was getting into years, and he asked for a boy to help him, As to night work, there was very little ol it, and there was a great deal of idle time. Mr. Belcher said the men could nob keep themselves on less than 10s a week. The Union S.S. Company reckoned that with all their men ib cost them Is 3d a day. Mr. Hoskings said there was no comparison ; the waste in these large vessels was enormous. The Chairman: Are you prepared _ to ration your men as liberally as the Union Company for 5s a week ? Mr, Hoskings said he could nob say without consulting his directors. Ho considered it a great hardship to be brought before the Court. Mr. Belcher, in answer to the Chairman, said the Union Steamship Company paid able seamen £6 10s, firemen £810s, greasers £8 10s, trimmers £8 10s, ordinary seamen £4 10s. The Northern Steamship Company was now paying 103 a month less. The scale as to provisions in the Merchant Shipping Act laid it down that where onethird of the quantity of provisions was short the men could demand 4d a day; where ib was over one-third they could get Bda day, and where the provisions were of bad quality they could get Is a day. The Chairman said so far as the first man on the Weka was concerned, and allowing 7s 6.1 a week for living, he would be about as an able seaman; the second man would get £5 10s a month clear, and the third £4 103. The firemen would only get £4 10s. Mr. Hoskings said the duties were very light, and the amount of coal consumed was about a ton a trip ; that was a ton had to be shovelled in 3J to four hours. Mr. Belcher said if the work was light that was to the men's advantage. He contended, too, that the other shipowners insisted that this should be the case. The Chairman said they could only look at the fact that a man was in the position of fireman ; they could not inquire how much of his time was spent on looking out of the porthole. It was competent for an employer to exact the full amount of work' in the eight hours. The standard rate was £8 10s for a fireman, found, so this man was £4 a month below the soale. Mr. Hoskings: The man would be very sorry to lose his billet. The duration of the trip was, he went on, only seven hours —3$ hours each way. They only ran four trips a wook, and a trip once a month to the Manukau Heads. The Chairman: In another case we have had boats running in very similar business, and with approximately similar trips, and in the case of firemen the Board has ordered the standard rate of wages should be paid. With regard to the seamen, they appeared to bo getting tho standard wage. Mr. Hoskings said the deck hands had never served at sea; they had worked on farms. Mr, Shera said ib would settle the whole thing if tho fireman was advanced. The Chairman said it would be impossible to allow exceptions, otherwise tho Board's order would be broken down. If It was found necessary to employ firemen, the employer must inevitably be bound to accept the standard wages. Mr. Hoskings: We could nob afford to pay more. ' Tho Chairman : Wo have to maintain the interests of the whole class. Mr. Belchor said there was great disparity betweon the £17 paid to the engineer and £6 to the fireman. Mr. Hoskins: If you send for a physician, you pay him more than you pay his driver, and a surveyor gets more than his chainman, though the latter': work is more arduous. Perhaps the best thing for me to do is to reject this. ' The Chairman; You may very much regret it, for you may open up a very much wider range. Tho case was then let stand over until the next morning, the Chairman saying tho Board would see Mr. Hoskings privately in the meanwhile. CLEVEDON S.S. 00. The next case was thab of tho Clevedon* Steam Navigation Company. Correspondence was read by Mr. Belcher. The socrotary of tho company wrote that oyer since the steamer had been running ho had lost money steadily, while the men were paid good wages. If any of the men were dissatisfied, and they would intimate the same, the directors would replace them at once, as some of the shareholders were A.B.'s, and would be glad of the billet. As to paying overtime it was out of the question. The directors were astonished in the face of having raised the men's wages, and increased the number of hands that the present demand should be made. Mr, Belcher wanton to say the boat— Hirere—was as large almost a3 some of the smallest of the Northern S.S. Company's fleeb. There had been a bit of prompting on the part of the employers, which had made'it difficult to find out what the wages were. By hearsay he learned that one man was paid a weekly wage, and ho had also heard that there was one man in the stokehole who got £6 a month. In view of the attitude taken by the shipowners the union was compelled to bring this particular case before the Board. It was hinted that if anyone was dissatisfied they would have to leave, That was a most arbitrary and unjust position to take up. The men were employed during the (fay, to judge from bhe letter, and had to work at sea at night. Mr. E. W. Alison: That is nob so. On being called on to reply Mr. Alison said the directors of tho Clevedon Steam Navigation Company strongly protested against the legislation which. enabled a union to cause them to appear before the Board as parties to an alleged industrial dispute, when as far as they were concerned no dispute existed or had at any time arisen. The Chairman: You muab distinctly understand we cannot listen to protests against legislation under which we are sitting. Mr. Alison : They wish to protest. The Chairman : 1 decline to listen to it. If you address your protest bo your Parliamentary representatives well and good. Wo have to administer the Act nob to criticise ib. . Mr. Alison, proceeding, said: The men employed by the company were quite satisfied, both in respect of their hoars of labour, the wages paid, and the general treatment they receive. In proof of this, they had voluntarily signed a documont to that effect. The respective wages calculated per month paid to the five hands employed is as follows:-Master, £13 per month; engineer, £15 3s 4d; deck hand, £8 13s 4d j boy on deck, £4 6-" 8d ; boy in engine-room, £6 10s. The Hirers was chiefly owned by country settlers, who were endeavouring to bring the Wairoa and other places between that disbriob . and Auckland into closer communication.' Oven £3000 had been invested in this steamer/' which had proved to be exceptionally well suited to the requirements of the trade, having been running for over eight months; but unfortunately, so far, the shareholders have nob received any return for their in" vestment on their enterprise. Previous to the Hirere being run the Planet was employed oh the trade. - The wages paid to the three men employed being at per month, master, £9 15s; engineer, £1016s 8d; deck hand, £7. As the receipts from the Hirere were fouud to be .insufficient to pay the actual working, expenses, the .directors meb recently to} decide what course should be taken to prevent a 1 continuance . of loss, They; were: most unwilling; to reduce' 5 the wages of the men employed, although some of the,;shareholders contended.; they i were , not : justified : in paying wages "■ so much | in advance of those previously paid, so

lb was 'resolved to increase the freight charges. The passenger rates could nob ' advantageously be increased, owing to . the competition of the railway. The new tariff has been in operation for over one month, and had not yet received a sufficient trial, but if the directors found the expenses were greater than the receipts they would have" no alternative but to either reduce the wages, reduce the number of hands, or lay the steamer up. The 1 cost of management was exceptionally low, the directors as a whole gave their services without receiving any remuneration. These facts were made known to Mr. Belcher, notwithstanding which the company was cited to appear before the Board. The directors desired him to tell the Board that they could nob possibly consent to any increase in the wages paid to or lessening of the hours of labour of the men in the company's employ, nor to pay overtime. Their reasons being: 1. That no dispute existed between the employees and the company. 2. That the employees were paid a good living wage, considerably in excess of the wages previously paid on the same trade, and that the steamer's earn* ings would not allow of any increase being made. 3. That the service being tidal, the hours of labour could not be lessened or altered. 4. That the shareholders were surely entitled to some return for their investment. 5. Thab employers in New Zealand are being hampered and trade crippled by unsound legislation. Mr. Belcher said be had omitted to mention that as regards food this vessel was similar to the Woka. Mr, Shera said the man on deck referred to might bo regarded as an able seaman, because lie was paid the standard wages. Mr/Alison: Higher. The Chairman concluded that the man was acting to some extent as mate, while he was exclusively the crew. He commanded himself as mate, and obeyed himself ub crew. Mr. Alison said the man was an ordinary seaman. Mr. Belcher said Mr. Alison evidently did not know the classes of men. Mr. Alison : I would like Mr. Belcher to assume that I know something of) the business in which I am engaged. Mr. Belcher said his wish was thab the rates paid on the largsr vessels should be made to apply to the smaller ones. The Chairman : Are you satisfied that the standard is paid here ? Mr. Belcher: No. I can see now the drift of Mr. Alison's remarks. The fate in store for that man is that he is to be reduced to an ordinary seaman. Mr. Alison : It is a piece of presumption to say. that. I ask you not to allow such presumptuous remarks. Mr. Belcher said he was satisfied as far as the deck hand was concerned, but not as to one described as a boy. Mr. Alison said he was a youth of about 19, without experience. In answer bo Mr. Belcher, he said hecould not say whether the men signed articles, the boat only ran within extended river limits. It was simply preposterous for Mr. Belcher to say that a youth without experience should be paid the full rate of wages. Mr. Lucas: Mr. Alison contends that full wages are paid for the man and the boy ; I should think he would be prepared to sign the agreement accordingly. Mr. Alison: How can I ? As soon as this Board disperses Mr. Belcher will say the boy is a man. Mr. Lucas: It would not lie with Mr. Belcher. Mr. Alison : With whom then? Mr. Lucas: Not with Mr. Belcher at all events. Mr. Alison: He seems to be the cause of the whole trouble; he appears to dominate the whole business. Mr. Bolcher objected. The Chairman: It will greatly facilitate conciliation if no allegations of any sort are made on either side. Passing on, he said it wa* obvious equity that persons running steamboats should run them under such conditions as to be equitable to all. He believed all parties were perfectly willing to procure that result. Mr. Shera : We find you are paying more than the standard rate of wages. Mr. Alison: Then why are we here? The Chairman : In order thab the Board may have the information they now have, and that wo may conciliate you into joining in the agreement. , Mr. Belcher: There is the fireman. The Chairman : I am informed he is a firoboy. Of course in the case of a steamer like this, which is owned by the settlers, who are trying to procure the sale of their produce, and whore a system is run without emolument in any way, we want to have an interpretation of any given clause that shall be as generous as possible to all concerned. The question of the lads employed having arisen Mr. Shera said there was nothing in the agreement to fix the rate of pay for lads, so they would not be interfered with. Mr. Alison proposed to get tho ages of the lads and submit them to the Board. The Chairman said from the evidence tho amount paid seemed as much as the vessel could bear, and they should as far possible interpret the thing so that tho vessel should continue to run. That was his personal feeling. Mr. Belcher said it was quite possible for tho Northern Steamship Company to turn round and say these men were not " boys ?" What would be done. Mr. Alison also promised to supply the Board with information as to overtime and The case was allowed to stand over. THE INVINCIBLE AND THE WAITOA, Mr. Belcher next dealt with the cases of the Invincible and the Waitoa. The former vessel, he said, came under the same head as the Stella, being engaged solely in towing logs. There were two men employeg on deck at £6 a month, and a lad in the stokehole ab £4; he believed the men had to find themselves. The action of the shipowners again compelled him to bring tho cases to the Board. Mr. Parker said he came with the feeling that there was no dispute. The vessel was solely occupied in towing logs. There was no fear of the vessel going into competition with the Northern Steamship Company or anybody else. He let the vessels on contract to the captains, therefore he did nob know how the wages were allocated. Perhaps Mr. Belcher know, for he seemed to know more about people's business than they did themselves. The vessel had been worked at a loss, and sometimes the men, when the weather was bad, did nob heave anchor or use a shovelful of coals. As regards signing an agreement, he would rather lay the vessel up, for ib would be ruination. The Waitoa was engaged in the pilot service, and sometimes lay at the wharf for a fortnight. Mr. Shera said if Mr. Belcher's statement was correct, Mr. Parker was within 10s of the standard wage, Mr. Parker: lam not going to alter ib; I won't run the vessel at further loss. There is no doubt I am paying the top wage; the men would nob stop otherwise. The Chairman here intimated that they would have a short conference with the employers at 10 in the morning, and try to come to a settlement. The Board then adjourned.