THE TRAGEDY AT THE ASYLUM.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XX, Issue 6829, 6 October 1883, Page 5

THE TRAGEDY AT THE ASYLUM.

CORONER'S INQUEST. A coboneb's inquisition into the dreamstances connected -frith the death of Jane*John Mills, an inmate of the Whan Lonatio : Asylum, who was killed by another inmate named Anthony Gsehnell, under circnmatances already detailed, was held yesterday forenoon, before Dr. Goldsbro' (Corontr), and: the following jury:—Major J. H. Bmnto v (foreman), William Williams, Fred. Alfred Henman, Thos. Newell, Francis o*Dowd, Thomas Yates, Arthur Oswell Stevenson, James Caughey, John Retallick, James Davis, James Robertson, George Probers Cks, Fredk. Coster, and John Bascorab. Mr. Thomas Maeffarlane (Visiting.Jnsticc of the Asylum) was present, also Williami and Claremont Mills (sons of the* deceased}, and C. Little (his son-in-law). The jury having viewed the body of the deceased, also the ward in whioh the tragedy occurred, evidence was then taken. as follows :— -

Dr. Alexander Young, Superintendent of the Asylum, deposed : The deceased, Janes John Mills, was aged about sixty years. Ho was admitted on the 22nd of April, suffering from dementia. He was quarrelsome, but not exactly violent, owing to- hia feeble health. I was called to see the daceased between eight and half-past eight on the morning of the 3rd inst. by the hsad attendant, George Hardy. [At this Stage Gsehnell was sent for by the Coroner, to be present at the inquiry. J Witness proceeded .- Mr. Hardy told methat' Attendant Byrnes had just reported that Gsehnell had killed Mills. I- went immediately to see Mills, and found him lying 1 in the dormitary of No. 3-ward', quite unconscious, and a large pool of blood round: hia head. He was lying on his right side, and surrounded by attendants. I fonnd on examination two lacerated wounds on the back of the head a little to the left side. The principal one was to the left side, [ the other near the centre. I pat my finger into the wounds and lound.the skull had been fractured and depressed. I immediately came back for instruments, and communi cated to the police by telephone, requesting them to send out' another .doctor. Dr. Hooper arrived soon afterwards. We thea made a more extended examination, and removed several pieces of bone from the wounds. We both agreed that the case was hopeless. The man lingered on and diedathalfthe same day. He never recovered sensibility. The cause of death was the fracture of the skull, which must have occurred by violence—a blow by a heavy instrument. There were snch wounds as Would be produced by blows from the deck scrnbber produced. (The handle of this was broken, and there was blood on it, as well as on the head of the scrubber itself.) Itwas used for cleaning the floors. Gsehnell acknowledged having done it to me, but did not say with what instrument. The scrubber was shown to me after wards by the head attendant. This man, Gsehnell, was admitted fro:n> the Gaol aa a dangerous lunatic, as a. lanatio who had already committed a murder at Taranaki. I warned the attendants in the usual way, through the head attendant* Hardy. I told them he was a man who had already committed murder, and that they were to exercise apesial supervision over him, that ha should never be left out of tbeir sight, except when they knew he waa by himself, or in his room. After he was in for a time, I gave instruotioas to restrict his liberty stillfurther, because I was in continual dread of something happening, knowinghewas a homicidal maniac. The instractions>wero that he was not to be allowed out until after every other patient in the same-ward was washed and dressed. After, he was washed and dressed in the presence of an attendant he was supposed to be turned out into the airing court, under the supervision of the warders in that court. There was always % warder in the court when there were patients in it. I cannot account for his being in the ward with Mills at the time except by theory. I do cot know how he got back into the ward. There are three modes of exit from the ward (No. 3). One is never opened, another leads to the closets, and the third to the airing court. The chief one is the far one at the foot of the stairs. I was in constant terror o£ such an occurrence, owing to the overcrowded state of the Asylum. In the mala department we have 191 .patients with soooTOinodation for 107 only, and had therefore no propsr of classification. W« have not house room toi zha sfeoessary. number of attendants, so we are,, I consider, shorthanded as to warders. We have no criminal asylums here aa in the old country, and it is impossible to isolate criminal patients. We have to herd them. with the others. I have reported and complained of the want of accommodation repeatedly, and to my own. knowledge the matter has been before the Government since 1876. I have complained to the late Inspector, Dr. Skae, to the present Inspector, Dr. Grabham, and to the Colonial Secretary by letter. I produce the copy of this letter, dated January, 18S2.

It had been published in the Parliamentary reports with the other statistics of the Inspectors. Ia it he drew attention the over-crowded state of the Asylum in both the male and female side. [The Coroner said he elicited this evidence in order that the attention of the Government might be again drawn to the matter, especially as Dr. Grabham was at present ia Auckland.J We got a new wing in additioa to the new building, but are. still overcrowded. This ia the first murder that haa occurred in the Asylum during its history, bat we have had suicides. I saw both these patients every day. Gschnell never expressed any special spite towards Mills, bufc. haß often told us he would kill somebody. By the Foreman: The overcrowded state of the institution tends to such occnrrencesas that which had taken place, Gschnell slept in a room by himself. By a Juror : Did the two patients get together by accident or owing to the overcrowding of the institution.

The Coroner explained that the overcrowding of the institution could not cause that. How these two men got. together would remain a mystery. In reply to Mr. Mac£farlane, Dr. Young said Gschnell gaveas a reason for killing some one that ha wanted to be killed himself.

Dr. flooper deposed : I knew the deceased, and have known him for many years. He resided in Victoria-street, where he kept a furniture Bhop. I was not aware that .he was in the asylum nntil Wednes--day. On Wednesday morning I received a telephonic message through the pol'ce from Dr. Young, requesting my attend--ance at the Asylum, as one patient had fractured the skull of another. I arrived afc. the Asylum a little before ten o'clock, and found deceased lying in a sleeping apartment on a bed. He was quite insensible, with, stertorous breathing. There was a serious, fracture of the skull at the back of the head, on the left side, under a lacerated scalp, wound. Blood was flowing freely from it, and there were several pieces of bone pressing on the brain, which I.removed, and i these I produce. The fractnre evidently waa much more extensive, and from the symptoms I considered the case hopeless. I have this day made a post mortem examination. The body waa fairly nourished. There were several contusions on the right hand, and a, cut on the back of the second, finger, as if he had, as I put np his. hand to ward the blow. They recent cuts and contusions. There was also a recent bruise over the right *collai> bone, and another on the right ankle. There was acchymosis of both eyelids, but principally the right and the forehead overthe right eye was bruised and excoriatect. [Witness described the wounds in considerable detail.]

Georgo Hardy deposed lam chief attea-. dant at the Asylum. I know the deceased since his admission to. the Asylnm. He was. then in a weak condition, suffecing front ' asthma. He was not a violent patient, but, was troublesome and • annoyed the other patients. He had no particnlar .spite against Oscanell" nor Gschnell against; him. On Wednesday morning .at about twenty-five minutes past eight, I was told by an attendant named Byrne that Gschnell had murdered patient Mills. I reported the circumstance to the Medical Superintendent, and both went to No. 3 ward. We found Mills lying on the floor, attendants Chaa. Clark and Byrne being with him. . Knowing that Gschnell was a murderous lunatic, tha attendants had all hesn warned to be especially careful, and never to leave him alone

with any other patient. Theaa instructions were given by the' Medical Superintendent through me to the attendants of thd" ward, Byrne and McAlevey. I last oautioned them on Monday last. I had not then more than tho ! ordinary doubts of this man Gsqbhell, and ho was not more violent than usual, He waa coaI fined in his cell till all the other patients were

-washed and dbssed. The patients were let into the airing court after breakfast, Gschnell amongst, the number. I cannot account for how Gschnell got into the ward with Mills: for the doors should be secured, and. ■they had not the right of ingress and egress. IChe locks are in good order, and the patients "were supposed to be locked out of the ward ] •when they went into the ainngcourt. Ac the time of the occurrence there was., -no attendant in the ward. James Alevey was the attendant in charge. 1 here was a ■proper storeroom for the broom, and other things, where they were kept under lock and. key The only way in which he could account for Gschnell and Mills getting into the ward was that the attendant may have tslosed the door and shot the lock without locking the door. He had found doors like that sometimes. The storeroom might not have been locked, as no patients were supposed to be in tbe ward. It was possible that Gschnell might have secreted himself in the ■water closet, but there was no evidence of the fact. I have seen the scrubber produced. It was the Bame which was picked up in the ward. The handle was then broken, and no scrubbers with broken handles are left about. The attendant, McAlevey, had shown himself intelligent and careful, and I have had jio reason to complain of him. By the Foreman : Each ward has its own storeroom. The storeroom was near the lavatory in this ward. The warder could not have left the room more than five minutes when the biow struck. It was not scrubbing-out time. It is presumed that the ward is empty when the warder leaves it to go to breakfast. There are always three attendants usually in the airing court -when the patients are in it, but sometimes there are only two. . A juror said it was rather curious that there should be two mistakes —first the man getting into the ward at all, and next that be Bhould find the storeroom open, so as to ■be able to get the scrubber. The witness explained that lately Gschnell -was trusted to do some little work when an attendant was present, but never alone. He tad requested to be allowed to do some

work. James McAlevey deposed: I am a warder jn the Asylum, and knew the deceased. He ■waa in the ward I had charge of. On the morning of Wednesday, the 3rd instant, the patients in the No. 3 ward had breakfast at eight o'clock, and had finished at ten minutes past eight, and I opened the door, and said '' outside" to tne patients, intimating by that that they were, to go into the airing court. I saw them all out in the yard except one man, Jolly, who was a quiet man, and was always left in the ward. 1 saw Gschnell going out with the rest. There were 42 men in the ward. When they were all out I locked the door. I am certain the hasp caught the lock properly. The lock was in good order, to 4he beat of my knowledge, When they were all out I was supposed to go to breakfast. This' was my usual custom. I was at breakfast when attendant Byrne came and told me of the occurrence, and was then only about five minutes away. Byrne told me that Gschnell had murdered mills. ' I went with him to the ward, and found Hills lying on the floor. I remained with Mills while Byrne went for the doctor, who attended immediately. • Gschnell was not then in the room; I believe he was in the cell. From that time Mills gradually sank and died. I cannot make out how Gschnell got possession of the broom after he was locked unt. lam perfectly certain I safely locked the door, and the other doors were supposed to be looked. I was aware the door leading from the ward was locked, so that persons conld not, by that way, get from the airing court into the ward, and I do not know how any one could get in to the ward. I did not unlock the door lead- , ing from the ward to the closet that morning. Gschnell told me he had murdered Mills and that he would murder another ■man Mills had never, that I saw, shown any animosity to Gschnell, nor Gschnell to Mills. He was always a quiet patient, only mad on the murderous point. I had received instructions from the chief warder to keep a special look-out for Gschnell, as he was a dangerous man, and did so to the best of my ability. I kept a firm look-oat for him. I have had him working cleaning up the ward. "It was not possible that he could have obtained the scrubber and secreted it before that morning. I identify the scrubber produced. It wa3 possible for him to secrete himself under the beds, but I saw him go out with the rest. lam sure of this. He never gave me any trouble, and I am certain : I turned the key properly in the door and locked it. It was customary for me to go to treakfast after the patients are turned out -*>f the ward. I cannot account for Mills "being in the ward, for I remember distinctly putting him out. I put his boots on because he was an old man, and put him out. When I left the ward everything wa3 cleared away. I left no brooms abont, and to the best of my belief they were locked up, and I cannot account in any way for how those two people got together on the morning of the assault.

By Mr. Macffarlane : I could not identify this scrubber produced as the one used in my ward. I conld not tell it from any of ■the others. I would not swear that the scrubber was not in the ward when I went

-to breakfast. I believed when I left the ward that I had turned all the patients out except Jolly, and I can in no way account for how in the space of five minutes these men could have git into the "vt ard, Gschnell obtain the broom and commit the murder.

By the Coroner : I did not examine the doors when I got back, but they were locked to the best of my opinion. I could not swear that the man Jolly, who was left in the ward, had not the means of letting anyone in or out of the ward, but he had no key, to witness's knowledge. I did not leave my key in the door. That I can swe»r. The keys are pass k«ys, and open every door, and they are only entrusted to the attendants. I bave been here six months, and no complaints

"have ever been made about me. I believe I did my duty, and cannot account in any way for how these men got in from the airing ground. I have never been in an asylum before.

At this stage Mr. Superintendent Thomson -arrived.

William Byrne deposed : I am a warder at the Asylum, and knew deceased, James John Mills. I had charge of the ward in which he

■was, but had not charge of him on the morning of the 3rd. I went on yard duty at ten minutes past eight o'clock, and the -patients came out about five minutes after. There is a gate in the airing yard, and a man goea there a few miaute3 before the patients are let out to prevent any one making a rush over it and escaping. I was about eight minutes in the yard when attendant Philpot came and told me that Gschnell was in the -ward, and said he had a man killed. I joshed over and opened the door of the ward ' and went in. I opened it with my key. It was looked. I saw Mills lying on the floor in. front of the main exit door. Gschnell was there, and lat once seize 1 him. He said, "He's dead: I killed him." I asked him what he did it for, and he said again, "Oh, he's dead; I killed him." I looked him up in a single room, and went back to Mills. I - could not say I saw Gschnell and Mills in the yard that morning, as when the patients come out first.there is a lot of rushing about » -and fighting. " There were about 130 men in the yard at the time. It was possible for them to get into the ward without my seeing them, for I. was at the other • end of the yard, but the door 1 referred to was locked, and they did not get in through tbat. I was on the gate, and the man on that duty never leaves the gate. 2 saw both Mills and Gschnell at breakfast, and I saw Gschnell washed and dressed. No one goes into the airing court until after breakfast. By Mr. Macffarlane: I could not say -whether or not the door leading from the i ward to the closets was locked on that |

morning. I did not examine it. as I had to go back to the gate after informing the doctor, and took no means to ascertain how they got into the ward. Usually that door of communication bttween the ward and the closets was kept locked. It was always supposed to be kept locked. To Mr. Thomson : There were two other ■warders on duty in the yard with me. To Mr. Macffarlane: Gschnell had his * breakfast at the same time as the other patients that morning, but was placed by himself apart from them. McAlevey had charge of the ward that morning.Wm. Philpot, another warder, deposed that on the morning ot the,3rd instant he was oti yard duty. He saw Gschnell at about twenty minutes past eight o'clock, standing at the window looking from the staircase of •the refractory ward, and singing ,'out, "I have killed him." He called the attention of the other two attendants, and both went in. jJVitness did not leave his post in the yard. He did not see them unlock tbe door. It was riot possible for any person to climb out of the airiDg court ~ through the window at which he saw Gschnell, without a ladder.

To Mr. Macfliarlane: He did not rememher seeing Gschnell and" Mills in the airing court that morning. Mr. Hardy was re-called, and said the height from tllie ground to the sill of the window was 6 feet S inches. It fas a narrow window, and no one could get in or out through it. The patient, Edwin Jolly, who was in the 1 ward when the murder was committed, was, at the desire of the Foreman, sent for, to tind whether anything could be ascertained from him.

Mr. Hardy said he did not think much information could be got from him, and what he gave would be unreliable. He was however, brought into Court, where he was seated for som>3 time, but his manner and utterances Bhowed that he was a gibbering idiot.

I The Coroner said that after the patient investigation which had taken place, he did i think it would, be wise to call this patient to (rive evidence, in fact his evidence could not be received. He would briefly go through the evidence which had been given. Dr. Young, the Mcdical Superintendent, who had large experience, having had the management of this Asylum ■ for may years, deemed it necessary that extra precautions should be adopted regarding this man Gschnell on account of his homicidal tendencies. The man was sent by him (Dr. Goldabro') while he was doing duty as gaol surgeon, to the Asylum, with the approval of the Colonial Secretary, because he was so violent, and had made up his mind to destroy soma one. fie felt it was incumbent on him fca shed blood, so tliey had him transferred to the Asylum; and as he was: known to be dangerous the greatest precautions were adopted regarding him; but accidents might occur. The lock of the door might have been bolted, or the man might have secreted himself, or the scrubber might have been found in some other part of the yard. It was just that the jury snould take cognisance of the callous indifference of the man who had been before them all day. Knowing iis he did that he had committed a hideous crime, and that he had previously committed a hideous murder, for which he was iienteaced to die at Taranaki, but, having exhibited symptoms of insanity, his neck was iiaved, and he was sent- to the Auckland 'Raul. His actien throughout wits stealthy, quiet, iiud cat-like, biding his time, and taking advantage of any possible opportunity of finding a door open till he struck the fatal blow. The only doubtful witness was McAlevey, the warder who had charge of the prisoner. He had not given his evidence so nicely «3 he (Dr. Goldabro') could wish, although lie bad not in any way criminated himself, and. had shirked no questions, but he had a despondent air. He might, however, inform the jury that this warder had been at once suspended by Dr. Young. The jury had not to deal with McAlevay's conduct at all. The criminal law could not touch him, for his hand had struck no blow, but the Lunitics Act could pronounce against him if he had been guilty of gross negligence, but tbut was not proved in the evidence, and the Criminal Act could not touch him. The weak points in the evidence were how this man got the weapon with which the blows were inflicted, and how these men, Mills and Gschnell, got into the ward. That was not shown. The authorities in lunacy would investigate any charge against McAlevey, and what the jury had to deal with was the verdict as to the cause of death of Milli;. It was a case of deliberate murder. It was not manslaughter; for Gschnell had deliberately made up his mind to murder someone, and he did so. The law was quite inoperative;; for this mau was not responsible for his acts; yet the verdict of the jury must be returned against him, and it would be for the Colonial Secretary to decide what should be done with him. The Coroner then explained to the jury the difference between manslaughter and murder,and said if they wished he would retire to allow them to consider their verdict. The Foreman said thisi was unnecessary, and the jury at once returned a verdict of " Wilful murder against Anthony Gschnell." The lasted from ten a.m. to four p.m.

THE HOMICIDE AT TARANAKI. Mr. Justice Gillies, who tried Gschnell for murder, at Taranaki, has courteously permitted us to make some extracts from his notes of the trial. Tbey are particularly interesting, as they bring out some peculiar features of homicidal mania. Gschnell was arraigned on November 7, 1882, for the murder of Mathias Knoll. Mr. C. W. Govett, on the suggestion of the Judge, watched the case for the prisoner. Mr, Standish opened the case for the prosecution. The prisoner being called on to plead said " I killed, the man ; it was caused by a dream." This was held to be a plea of not guilty. Charles Stuart Curtis, a storekeeper at Stratford, said he had known the prisoner for four years. Prisoner used to deal with him. Prisoner's manner was quiet and rational, not different from th at of ordinary men. On the 28th of August Haw the prisoner and Mathias Knoll in the store at nine a.m. They left the store together. I saw Knoll dead about three o'clock, | Witness then described the position of the body and the appearance of the spot.] Prisoner is a single man, living at Midhurst. He has a brother in tho district. There has been great domestic trouble in his brother's family.. William Edward Wirry, in the employ of Curtis Brothers, Stratford, knew prisoner for a year. Knew deceased i man, Knoll. On the 28th of August, I saw | the prisoner 0:11 the Qpunake Road, with Knoll, half-a-mile from Stratford. They were going in the direction of Malone's

Bush, at about 10 a.m. I spoke to them, j Prisoner answered. They were walking together talking, not quarrelling. Saw them again in Malone'e clearing sitting on a log and talking together in ft friendly way. That was about eleven a.m. Saw them again about half-past eleven a.m. going in the direction of Stratford ; they were then about a quarter of a mile from Malone's clearing. John Twigg, foreman of works for the Ngaire Road Board District, was the first to find the body at the entrance of a cutting, in a sitting position, resting against the bank, a number of flies about the mouth. Removed the body in a d:ray to Stratford. Attended the inquest. Sergeant Cahill picked up a knife under a log of timber. That was from five to seven chains up the Opunake-road (knife identified). The prisoner pointed out the place where the sergeant picked up the kuife. A pernon named Overton heard the prisoner say that he had washed his hands at the crisek in the gully. The sergeant asked prisoner why he did so. Prisoner replied, "you know." This was hal£-a-mile from the place where the body was found. Upon going totlliespot where the body was laid, prisoner said (about half-a-mile distant) that he did not care to go further, the sergeant said, "Go forward." Prisoner replied, "Stop me at the place." Prisoner went on a few yards and naid, " It commenced there." That would be about half a chain from where tho body was. When the sergeant got to the cutting the prisoner told him to stop, and then said "There I" Prisoner then turned round and went away a few feet. Witness saw blood on the ground. Prisoner said that "It was a long way to it, but 'he thought it took only a minute to come down from it jesterday," Prisoner was a little excited when he pointed out thfi spot. Knoll, the deceased, was a quiet sort of man. The witness being examined by the Court, seiid he naw no indications of a struggle, but he observed blood between the first place pointed out by the prisoner and the spot where the body was found. Robert Glegg,, storekeeper at Midhurst, said he knew prisoner forfour years. Prisoner was in his store the day he was apprehended, a little after three p.m. Served" him with

biscuits. His hand shcok a little as he took up a biscuit. I remarked to him that he seemed to be cold, but received mo re»ly from him. 1 asked him if ho wanted any buih falling. He said he had been up the Opunake-road to look at some that very day. Prisoner was not excited, he was quite quiet. Witness always thought him strange in his manner, but not specially so that Jay. He used sometimes to talk very foolieh in a maundering kind of way, The prisoner was locked up as a lunatic in 1879. He acted violently at that time. He kept firing a gun during one night. Witness seat word to the police. He seemed alw ays queer. He returned a good few monthis ago, ;just as strange as before. Knoll and prisoner were, on very friendly terms. Knoll was a man of very qaiet_ and. gentle disposition. In re-examination the witness said : Prisoner's talk seemed to be the result of some delusion—raving like—that there was something that he would be driven to do. He spoke of the devil when he firecl the shots. Since returning he talked sensibly about his business, but still he tallied strange, although not to such a degree. When he was. talking about business, aometimcs he would break

off and talk about some influence he.was I under. Witness could not understand what he meant. It seemed like " religious delusion." Witness saw him haaty with his brother—several times quarrelling.—George Amo3 Tapp,constable, A.C., examined, said: On the 28th of August I went to Midhurst,' and met there Sergeant Cahill, in whose company I went to arrest the prisoner at his house. That was about seven p.m. Theprisoner was at home. I pushed opes, the door suddenly. He was standing inside unarmed. I caught hold of him. We pnt handcuffs on him. Sergeant Cahill told him of the charge, and I cautioned him in the usual manner. Prisoner said, referring to Cahill: " I don't understand all he says.'' I explained it to him in different words, and in the simplest

way I could. Prisoner said : "I know now. I killed the man. I can't say his name in English." 1 told him "Knoll." Prisoner then said : "Yes; I killed that man," and continued -. " They play the fool. I told them if they did not take me I must kill somebody. They take me and put me in a madhouse; then they played the fool and let me go. I then felt I must kill somebody, and I killed somebody after this." We were searching some clothing for blood stains. By candlelight we could see nothing. The following morning we saw blood on his coat, rest, and hat. He said : "That's the clothes." We searched for knives, and examined what we found. Prisoner, pointing to one, said : "That's not the knife I killed the man with. It was all smeared with blood. I did not like to carry it afterwards, and I put it behind a log. I went down the Opunake-road to look at some bush ; I was walking along ; I felt a sickness ; I caught hold of the man I was with, and ran the knife into him. He put his arms around me like this [showing the manner of deceased] to defend himself, but I was too strong; it was a sickness, and I could not help it. I hope I never feel like that again; they ought to have kept me in the madhouse; I could not kill anyone there, they would not let me I have thiugs to do it with. I felt sorry after I killed the man." Prisoner stated that the nife belonged to Mrs. Fisher, of Midhurat, who also owned the house he lived in. He showed us where the knife.was when he took it up. He did not appear the least excited, but rather quite cool and collected. Prisoner then chatted freely about bush-falling and other ordinary topics. I had known him for three aud a-half years. Ido no not think he slept that night. He seemed restless, but there was nothing strange about his conversation. Next day prisoner walked with mySrlf and Sergeant Cahill down the Opunake road. Near the edge of the township, he painted out a log find said, " The knife is there." Passed a small stream, when witness said, "That's where I washed my hands." As he walked along he said he did not think it was so far—he thought it was only a minute or two's walk. About a mile from the Mountain-road prisoner stopped suddenly, and said, "That's the place (pointing) where I killed the man. I don't like to go there myself." Sergeant Cahill said to him, " I will go on, stop me when I'm on the spot." Prisoner then said, "Tuat's it where you are." Prisoner then went forward,-and pointed, saying, "That's the place, there's the blood." There was blood there. He then came back, and all three walked towards Stratford. He pointed to a root, and said, " There's blood on a root. I don't like to see it." Prisoner's face grew red, and he seemed then excited and put his hauds over his faoe. He soon recovered, and put his hands down by his side. He said, " I did not think it was so far; I must have flew after I left the man." I had arrested him some years before. He was in a very bad way then. He was insane, and was sent to Nelson. There was nothing in the conversation with him on the 28th and 29th to indicate insanity. Saw nothing unusual about him. The indications two years ago were about a German girl that he wanted to marry, and he thought Father Berkley had stood in his way. He said he had some dreams which told him so. He said he would have'killed him if he (Berkley) had done so. It seemed to pray on hi 3 mind. Prisoner only once spoke to me about this girl. On the night of his arrest when speaking about bush-falling the prisoner would break off and talk about deceased. Prisoner lived alone. Sometimes he lived with mates.

Henry Blackburn Lea'tham, duly qualified medical practitioner, in the course of his evidence stated: A person once subject to delusions, they might' come .b3ck at uncertain intervals of time. A man (homicide) might feel that he had done wrong afterwards, but not at the time he struck a blow. Warn of motive would be a ground for suspecting insanity. Prisoner had lost an eye apparently by violence. If by a blow, that would possibly cause mischief to the brain. A man might have a homicidal monomania which he represses for years. To all appearance such a person might be perfectly sane, but at last such persons can no longer restrain themselves, and they commit tlie criire. Sometimes such persons feeling an attack would give themselves up to be restrained. Leonard George Boor, medical officer of the. Nelson Lunatic Asylum, said : 1 have had experience of eleven years in the treatment of lunatics in England and the colony. Prisoner has been under my care on two occasions—first in 1879 (23rd August), sent from New Plymouth by Colonial Secretary's order unaccompanied by any medical certificates. The only history i had with him was that he threatened the life of a girl. On his arrival at the Asylum I could find no evidence of insanity. I inquired of him about this threat. He said it was "all nonsense;" he only intended to frighten the cirl. He had no delusion—was very quiet and well behaved, and repeatedly asked why he was detained. He was dischiirged on the 25th September, on my recommendation, having shown no evidence of insanity. On the 7th of July, ISSI, he was cent again from New Plymouth with certificates stating that he had voluntarily given himself up to the police, as he felt a desire to kill some one. Again, when admitted, he seemed to have lost that idea, was quite rational, and had no delusion. He was clean and well-behaved. He was trusted to go out with the rest of the patients to work in the garden with tools. He showed no evidence of insanity or delusion. He was over eleven months under my care. Soon after his admission he requested to be discharged. He repeatedly demanded to be discharged, and threatened action if he were not. I finally discharged him on the 13th of June, 1882. It is usual for persons coming to the Asylum to lose their delusions. Change of air and scene might have a tendency to dispel them, but not altogether. If a man has at one time delusions I should expect them to re-appear at some time or other—it might be after years. I have examined the prisoner's eyes. He lost one of his eyes through external injury. Such an injury might affect the brain. Where brain mischief was done there would be not merely delusions ; there would be irritability. Living and food would tend to aggravate injury to the brain. Reexamined : It was not common for delusions to be very long absent: it is quiee possible homicidal mania might be long absent; quite possible prisoner might have "masked" his homicidal mania whilst in the Asylum. Homicidal mania is often accompanied by, epilepsy or furious outbreakings and ravings. Patrick Joseph O'Carrol, a duly qualified medical practitioner, was examined for the defence. He said the prisoner had been committed to his charge in 1879 .for homicidal lunacy. He was troublesome on admission. He coolcd down after a while. He threatened Father Berkely and Bishop Redwood, I think, on one occasion. He was committed to the G&ol, the Asylum having been done away with. He wished to get to Nelson to murder Bishop Redwood. This was before he was sent the second time. I have visited him in the Gaol. I have taken a good deal of trouble with him. At times he i'b possessed with delusions. Until about a month ago he appeared perfectly sane in all his wordß and actions, then, having heard me mention something about his having been in an asylum, he became irrational. After two days he recovered and became perfectly rational until yesterday morning. I decidedly thought him insane on the first occasion.

John Duffin said the prisoner eame to him on the 27th of June, 1881, and requested to be locked up. Witness asked him for what reason. Prisoner said he had to commit murder. I asked whether it was Bishop Redwood, He said,'."No; it is you this time." I told him to go away—that I was not afraid. He said, "Suppose I buy a revolver, come behind your back, and shoot you, you won't see me." He struck his heart, and then said, A spirit had told him he would have to commit murder, and if he was not locked up, he would do It. I locked him up. He was examined by two medical men, and committed to the Asylum again. Tho prisoner spoke quite calmly.