PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealander, Volume XXI, Issue 2264, 2 November 1864, Page 4

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 1. The Council met at 3 p.m. The Speaker read the usual prayers. PETITION. Mr. Wynn presented a petition from Captain M. Krippner, who before leaving Germany, had been requested by a number of persons desirous of emigrating to tins Colony, to secure for them a block of land and make the necessary arrangements for settling them thereon, an 1 put himself on arrival in communication with the Provincial Government, and alter two years succeeded in obtaining for them a grant of land on the Puhui, under the Special Settlement Act, and accordingly wrote to the parties, inducing them to come over and form a special settlement. That these parties arrived in Auckland, in June 1863. but in consequence of various unforseen delays it was not till November that they obtained possession of their land during which time your petitioner was put to considerable expense and loss of time in enabling them to.obtain provisions, and otherwise assisting them in getting housed, and settling down. And that it is mainly owing to the ewtiom and sacrifices made at that time by your petitioner, that they were prevented from dispersing, efforts being made to create discontent amongst them, an 1 induce them to annoy the Government. And tnan they now form what gives every promise of becoming a flourishing settlement and a benefit to the Province." The petitioner, therefore, asked lor compensation for loss of time and money (which latter he estimates at upwards of £200) in forming the settlement. Petition received and laid on the table.

Mr. Wi'NK also presented a petition from John Ojkes, a discharged soldier of the 65th Regiment under Coionel Gold. He had left the service in 1849, for the purpose of settling in New Zealand, but from ignorance of the existing laws he had uot made formal application till 1864, for his land. Petition receive! ail laid on the table.

Mr. Wynn also presents! a petition from William K'.nable and Charles Williamson., who emigrated here in February, I '6O, and selected their land in the Manukau block, parish of Awitu. A neighbour, named John Yo'.ing, to make up his quantity of land, was allowed to select 8 acres on the petitioners' land, which he chose out ol the very best of their land. Petition received and laid on the table.

Mr. Cheeseman presented a petition, from James Cook, who arrived in June, 1863, but had neglected to present his Laud Order for endorsement in the proper time. Petition received and laid on the table.

Mr. Oaulbtox presented a petition from Edward Asheroft Lines, who had failed to get the Land Order in time, before ieaviai England, in day, 1864.

Petition received and laid on the table

Mr. Gallaugher presented a petition from C. F. H. 11. Lloyd, who arrive I in January, 1860, but from some delay had not presented his Land Order in due time.

Received andjlaid on the table. Mr. Gallaugzieu also presented a petition from Francis Northwood, pensioner, late of the New Zeaand Feueiole Force, who hi I served his time, bat had lnot received his Land Order, although he had applied for the same. Received and laid on the table.

Mr. Coolahan presented a petition from Stephen Richard Havkswood, private of the 53th Regiment, who obtained his discharge, with the object of settling here, but was refused his land because of delay in applying for it. Received and laid on the table. Mr. Oadman presented a petition from James Lowe, who had not presented .his order io time. Received and laid on the table.

Mr. Cadman presented also from W. McKay, who arrived in October, 1862, but had failed to secure his lan t order first. And from James Clarks >n, who had left his land order behind. Alsa from Robert Bighorn, a similar case. All received and laid on the table.

Mr. Ball presented a petition from G. 11. Parnel, who had lost his land orders. Received and laid on the table.

MEaSAGi:S*F,IOM TII3 SUPERINTENDENT. No. 54. Miking provision for several items. Mr. iNmvman moved that it be read and printed. Carried.

No. 5-5. Relative to appointment of Captain Daldy. Dr. Pollen moved that it be read, and referred to Select Committee on Hecent Appointments. Carried. No. 56. Bill to pay off certain debentures. Mr. moved that it be read a first lime ' Then that it oe printed, and read a second time tomorrow. Carried. BKPO T FROM THE AUDITOR. For the quarter ending 3utu September, 1864. Mr. Newman moved that it be referred to the Audit Committee. Carried. BUSINESS OF THE DAY. BLTLMNG ON PUBLIC P.ESEUVi-8. Mr. WrsN askea the hoti Provincial Treasurer, "By what authority a portion of the allotment on which t.ie Council Caamoer is erected has been enclosed and built upon." Mr. New:,ias' replied, Thus no rent was received for the enclosure referred to. Permission had been given by the Superintendent to jthe General Government for some friendly natives to erect temporary enclosures, on the undemanding they should be removed at any time required. KOADS IN THE NORTHBSBS MVISION. Mr. Swansox as!;ed the Provincial TVeasurer, "If it is tne i.iientiou ot tiie Governnie it to ope-i any road 3 in that pin of the iSoitheru Division lying between the A',i m, Mm i .an Uaroonr, the West Coast, Waitakerei, =l,, i .'in- iNoriu .ioad." He alluded to the great quantity ul . i n\» r taken out weekly from that district. He believed i;:Od would make a good road. Mr. Newman replied that the line was not yet surveyed, but steps had been taken for that purpose. He trusted the local Boards would soon meet wants of this kind. RECENT APPOINTMENTS. Dr. Pollen asked the Provincial Secretary, Whether or not any appointments other than those specified in the return transmitted by his Honor the , Superintendent, and ordered by this Council to be printed on the 11th October instant, have been made by his Honor the Suuerintendent. He had been instructed to put this question to the Provincial Treasurer. At least one appointment had been made at a large salary which did not appear on the return that had been furnished to the Couucil. Another appointment had alsj been made to that army of martyrs, the

1 — in that of Harbor Engineer at a Eugnieer As t|iere wer<j proba b]y ot her :ip--salaO' °' f s j,„iiar nature, he ha I been induced of the Council to put the present *° r L. nn tl e notice paper. ffSttewitt* s " i<l he » nderst,)ofl Perfectly from the k {Or PolI«i», the exact appointment to which I« IBarM " rt jc„larlv referred, and he had no hesitation he "iHnJ the circumstances of the case. No perma--10 , "ointmo t whatever had been made, but Capnent ap,• hj rn tem p )rar Uy appointed at the w in S'IJP hoW evi': u> be dismissed at any moment. wharf, ' n)ISTa | KST ~f w. c. daldy, esq. V , L 'i kn to the Provincial Secretary, v.w any have been taken to obtain wh u- r.,iincil the information relative to the for ** ~f "J?' \v\ C. Daldy, Esq., by the SSSg vernraenttobe agent in England for the G flhi is settlement, requested i-i the Addrets t •>-<>• -late October 18th instant. He sail it ,lfbe unnecessary for him to ask this question, in * vienee of the returns that had already oeen foftS to the Council by his Honor. W8 T , TI J S RKFEHBBD TO FBIVATJS GRIEVANCE COM?iTI ' MI I TEE. •.r Pimnv m)ved, "That the petitions of J. H. « ,M, \nlrow Otto, and Ann Huff, be .referred to Sjlifeti Grievance Committee." move I, "That the pitition of Isaac ,oJj£iiebewferreJ to the Private Grievance Committee." Vfr'cADMAN, perceiving that Mr. O'Neill was at ~f " S ent moment absent from the H .use, begged l »vei to more that the next motion standing in his me bo postponed tin ii after the consideration of the "(her orders of the day. AgieeJ to. ESTIMATES. Mr llariwp movrd, ''Tnatwiththeviewof enabling the members jof this Council, resident in the country, tWin' part in the debate when in committee on the Mtiinatca the Government be requested to fix upon e d'»v a week f>r such consideration." His object In moviii" the present motion was simply because he thou'dit it advisable that the Government should give •nowlinfuruMtiou relative to their intention of acting in Mr J. O'Neill here called the attention of the Sneak rto the fact that all the members ot the Go°n |K . n i W nre absent from their places, and suggested Iha- the bell should be runs;. Tiie- SpbaKbk ordered the division bell to be rung. q'lie bell having been rung, and several members, anion:* wiiiuii w»s Mr, Newman, having returned into the chamber. ) Mr Wynn boggedAo ask the Speaker the reason for the bell Ii ivins.' beenJung, as he di 1 not perceive that there was any divisiod about to take place. The Spbaiiek explained that it was done at the imarestwn of the hou. mover of the resolution, in order that members o( the Government might be in their Mr. Habbop continual, he thought the present motio'ii was a desirable one, in order to ensure a fair consideration of tho estimates. He in no way wished to show any spirit of opposition to the present Government but it was to aid as much as possible the conliderati m of the estimates that he ha 1 done as he had, an,] to prevent, as had been previously the case, the estiina-es being brought under consideration late in the eremni*, when the e would in all probability be but a small house, and when, as was frequently found to be the important items were brought under discussion. Members too had been frequently told that there would bo no necessity tor them to remain as the estimates would not be brought under consideration that day. There ware country members, too, wl>o found it very inconvenient to be attending the' Council day after day ; whereas, if there was one particular day tixed for the consideration of the estimates, they" would have every opportunity afforded them of being present. He hoped the Government would be inclined to give the matter ample consideration, in order that the present method of dealing with the estimates might be altered. ||Mr. A. O'NuiL sho.dd decidedly oppose this motion. Members from the country, he considered, had quite Bsmueh right to be in their places as he had. If gentlemen did not choose to attend, they ought to re-. rrign. Mr. Newman said that as far as the Government were concerned, they wished the Appropriation Act to be disoussed not only one day, but every day in the week. They were most desirous that the estimates should be pass das speedily as possible. The Superintendent had since sent down a supplementary estimate for £5,777, which had been accidentally omitted out ol the general es imates. He believed, however, that they were all down now. Mr. Ross said he hoped th it the present motion would not be carried if honorable members chose to absent themselves from tbe House, lis would not be one to accord them the opportunity of so doin^j. Mr. Co-luian said, i'hat he considered this objection tame with very bad grace from the last speaker. There were many country members who suffered great loss and annoyance in having to come to the house every day. Mr. Geohos said, That if there was to be only one day set apart for the consideration of the Estimates, they migtu be there for the next six mmths, in fact it was quesdmable whether they would ever get through them at all.

Mr. Galladgiier said, that he was very thankful to those hon. gentlemen who had considered the country members in the matter. For hU part he was perfectly prepared to come every day, aud considered every country member ought to be equally prepared to do the same. Mr. J. O'Neill said, If the Government intended to iring the consideration of the Estimates ou at once, it would be well if tiie hon. Treasurer were to recall, them, as it was quite impossible for the Council to •consider them in their present shape. The motion was then put and negatived without a •division. STONE-BREAKING MACHINE. Dr. Pollen moved, " That an address be pre•sented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting, that he will lay before this Council copy of all correspondence relative to the ordering and obtaining of the stone-breaking machinery, for the superintendence of which an engineer has been recently appointed." _ He had been iustmctod as the chairman of die committee ■on recent appointments to move the present motion An engineer to superintend the working of the stone-breaking machine appeared among the recent appointments. The Council would like to be informed something about this matter. At an early part of the session a very practical report had been sent down by the Superintendent purporting to emanate from a gentleman that had been appointed to superintend the gaol labour. It appeared from his efforts that an entire change of system had been effected, and for his part he (the speaker) was very glad to see the report that had been sent down. Not satisfied, however, with effecting this desirable object, he certainly was somewhat surprised to find that the Superintendent had taken a new idea into his head, to provide the prisoners with a stone-breaking machine, thereby putting the Province to an extra expense of some £2OO. First of al lhis object was to get Suitable work cut of the prisoners, and as soon as he had most satisfactorily eliected this he ceases to afford them the means of prosecuting that labor. The Council appeared to be entirely ignored and set at defiance by the Superintendent, who, immediately he imbibed a new idea, at once acted upon it, without consulting them at all in the matter. The experiment of a stonebreaking machine had already been tried by the City Board, and as far as he could find out, the balance in favor of the machine had not been very great; it in fact appeared very questionable whether a machine of this description could be employed either remuneratively or satisfaetoiily. He (the speaker) had been informed that the machine in question had been placed in a most ineligible situation, where it would cost nearly as muclf to take the stones to the machine as it would do to break them ; it had Also been placed Where there was not a sufficient quantity of water to keep the steam up. Last session, in return to the Superintendent's speech, it had been specifically stated that except in cases of urgent necessity the Council would not be prepared to warrant any expenditure other than that which had been legally provided tor. Would any hon. member say that this was not squandering the public money in a most uncalled for manner ? No Government had ever coma down to Unit Council with any improvement of which they could show the desirability without the subject matter o; i; receiving their most earnest consideration, but in this instance even the usual show of courtesy had not been afforded to the Council. He did hope that the Council, by way of lesson to his Honor, would Signify their opinion of the way he had acted in this matter by leaving him to deal with the stone-breaking machine himself. Mr. Newman said he had no intention (0 oppose the lion, gentleman's motion. But he wfshed to tell him that wheutthis engine was first ordered it was not intended that it should work at the Stockade, but that it should be used tor breaking metal where it was v<.ry much more required, namely, along the Great South Hoad. (Lr. Pollen: "What part of the road ?) Ou this side of Oiahuhu, near Ellcrslie. Steps had been taken ;o send for an engine from Melbourne. The Etone-bicaker w .s at the time on its way, so that th< engine was absolutely required. As soon as it could be at work, stones would be broken much cheaper than they were at present. In the meantime there would

be pleutv of labor for prisouers. As to what the lion, member "had said with regard to the expenditure without the vote of th t Council, he th .ught that the hon. gentleman was as we'l aware as he was that this was not the first tima that a Superintendent had acted on his own authority without obtaining the permission of the Council. He thought this observation would have come better from the hon. member who made it. Was this a failing that the hon. gentleman was totally unfamiliar with ? Could he not manage to brins to mind an instance in which, when he was in office, the Superintendent had acted without the sanction of the Council? He begged to say, in conclusion, that a very little steam power would bring this stone breaker to any part ot the South-road where it might be required. Mr. Wynn said that he would always give his voice against such an indiscriminate expenditure of money, unless he could see that some good would accrue from it to the Province. He could not in this instance' see that this machinery was necessary in any way. Men who had offended against the law were very properly condemned to hard labor in the stockade, but this machine was brought there to save them from it. (Oh! oh! from Mr. Newman.) The hon. member opposite had said it would not cost £2OOO. Now, the Council did not want to learu what it would not cost, they wished to know what it would cost. Mr. Newman: It is on the papers.

Mr. Wynn said the Council was not supposed to know anything about the papers. It was the duty of the hon.'gentleman to come down prepared to answer them what it did cost. It was very evident that the hon. gentleman was totally unacquainted with the duties of his office. He begged to add he would support the motion. Mr. Gallaugher said that it was his opinion in this matter that manual labor properly employed would be as cheap as any machine. Mr. Swanson wanted to know why the machine was not put up at the place where it was required instead of at the Stockade ? If it was wanted at Ellerslie why was it not there ? Why was an Engineer kept at the Stockade and paid three or four hundred a year ? Was it to look at the engine ? Mr. NswM\Nsaid that the machine had to be put together. Dr. Pollen said that he had had some experience in connection with Government, and that during thit time no man had been more resolute than himself in preventing Government from going to useless expense The only expense that had bean gone to without the sanction of the Council when he was in office, was the Harbor Trusts, and he now begged to point with pride to the effects of that expenditure. What would have been the result to th* City of Auckland, if the Superintendent had not had the courage to perfect a work like that, that brought in a yearly revenue of £IO,OOO to the Province. When could the hon. gentleman point to such a work as that. In his experience he had never seen such carelessness shown to the orders of the Council as had been shown by the Superinten dent and his representative. This steam engine seemed to be a tender subject. He had heard on very good authority that when a certain gentleman suggested to the Superintendent that this was rather too expensive a toy, the answer he received was instant dismissal from office, whilst the men who encouraged these expenses were retained and honored. The motion was then put and carried. HALF MILLION LOAN ACCOUNT. Dr. Pollen said it was a very painful position to him to be thus constantly standing up to complain, but he was particularly anxious to have this question settled before the Council began to consider the estimates. He did not consider that the financial statement was very specific with regard to the loan. It was important that these things should be thoroughly understood before they proceeded to the consideration of the estimates. He therefore moved, " That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that he will lay before this Council a st itement showing the c mdition of the Half-million Loan Account on the 30th September ultimo." Motion seconded and carried. CAPTAIN DALDY. Dr. Pollen apologised for occupying so much of the time of the Council. It appeared that Captain Daldy had unlimited credit. He had instructions to draw what he wanted. He therefore begged to move, "That an aidrcss be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting that he will lay before this Council copy of the letter or letters of credit with which Captain Daldy was furnished on the occasion o.'his appointment as Immigration Agent and Special Agent for the Executive Government of this Province." Motion put and carried. WATERWORKS BILL. Mr. Carleton said that in moving the adoption of this report, he wished the Council to understand that his only object was to bring the bill into the shape to which it had been reduced by the committee, to which the Council had referred it. Mr. Wynn said he had no objection to make, but that the Council would not be supposed to assent to the amendments. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Carleton.) Mr. Carleton then moved," That the report of the Select Committee on the Water Works Bill, in so far as it relates to amendments in the bill, be adopted." Adopted accordingly. HIGHWAYS AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. Carleton then begged to be allowed to withdraw motion No. 9, standing under his name, namely that the Highways Amendment Bill be re-committed.. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. PROVINCIAL COUNCIL LIBRARY.

Mr. Wynn in making this motion begged to say that he did so with the full approbation of the library committee. It was all the more necessary that they should endeavour to obtain a good library now,as they would soon lose the use of the General Government library to which they now had access. In a few months the General Government would be removed from this place, and their library would go with them. C" They are not gone yet," from Mr. King.) Perhaps not, but they would go. They had fought hard to go, and they had now got their grant of £50,0 '0 for their bnilding. It seemed that the £IOO a year allowed by the Government for the library had not been well spent, in sayii g so he meant that they had not had as much as they ought to for this amount Now there would be several sums curtailed from the estimates in going through the house and he was sure from that • amount curtailed they could well spare £3OO lor such a good purpose. He has heard that the hon. member (Mr. Newman) intended to dispute the estimates item by item, but he might go home with the assurance that they would be very considerably reduced. He had heard from hon. members who had added up their total amount that they very nearly amounted to the income. Without further remarks he would beg to move " That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the supplementary estimates a sum of £3OO, in addition to the sum of £IOO, on the estimates, for the Provincial Council Librarv." Mr. Coolahan seconded the motion. He said the question had been very much agitated of late; a library > ught to be supported for that House. Mr. Carletcn then suggested to Mi .Wynn that the word "additional" should be inserted instead of "supplementary," as being a fitter one. Mr. Wvnn thanked him for the suggested amendment. ""Mr. J. o'NEir,,'said that the question of the movement of the General Government had nothing at all to do with the library. It was the duty of the Province to have a good library. He should have been glad if £6OO, instead of £3OO, were placed on the additional estimates. £IOO a-ycar was not sufficient to support a library such as they ought to have. It would require £SOO. Mr. King said that the members of the Council to have a good library, to enable them to get the best information possible upon all necessary points. In his opiniou the scat of Government would never be removed to Wellington. Mr. Ross did not intend to oppose the motion. Mr. NfiffiiAs was prepared to meet with all criticism from the House. Mr. Swanson ask<jd if no reductions were to be made ? He alluded to the monstrous house about to be put up. Mr. Gallacgher said he thought the votes of that House should bo reproductive. He thought not only the young idea but the old idea should be taught how to shoot. . Mr. Ball would support the motion if the library were thrown open to others. He would like to see a n-ood map shewing the counties and parishes. A new catalogue was also much needed, as the old one was very much in arrears. Air. George would support the motion. He thought the library very desirable. Mr. Wynn said he was glad to hear so many speakers in favor of this motion. He believed that the estimated revenue would allow a full margin lor this item. If it turned out otherwise, he would not press it when the time came. The question was then put and passed. PRIVATE GRIEVANCE. Mr. King moved, " That the petition of G. H. Lavers be referred to the Private Grievance Committee."

Carried with the amendment of the name. WHAKF AT ONEHDXGA. Mr. Gaixaugher moved, " That a respectful address be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to send down to this Council copies ot all reports of the Engineer-in-Chief on the alterations en and the additions to the old wharf at Onehunga,

and also that copies of his reports on the proposed new wharf at Onehunga be laid on the table of this Council with as little delay as possible. He censured severely the unworkmanlike manner in which the wharf at Onehunga had been constructed. Mr. King seconded tiie motion. His own impression was, that the right site for the wharf was at the Wnite Bluff. The necessary road thereto would not be unproductive, and reclaim a great portion of the land.

Mr. Newman said, the Government fully recognised the importance of developing the resources of Onehunga : and they would be very desirous to furnish all the information in their power. As it was an engineering question he would not pretend to' enter learnedly into its merits. M. CooLAnAN said that when the engineer gave in his report, he hoped he would consider the feasibility of deepening the Onehunga river. He believed it could be done as had been done with the Clyde at Glasgow, which could now be entered by the heaviest of vessels. •- -■'

Mr. Cadman said,he had no doubt the Government had built the wharf in the present position on the foundation of their Engineer's report. He quite concurred in the statements respecting the disgraceful state of the Onehunga Wharf. It was not merely " shickery or shaky," but actually falling to pieces. Mr. Gallaugher replied. Motion put and passed. FING-'R-POSTS JN ROADS. Mr. Harrop moved, " That his Honor the Superintendent be requested to urge on the District Commissioners of Highways the importance of erecting in each district finger-posts, making such erection a charge on each such district." Motion put and carried. TOWNSHIP OF RUSSELL. Mr. Williams moved, " That a respectful address bo presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to cause a sufficient sum to be placed upon the supplementary estimates for the purpose of providing suitable accommodation for a post-office and custom house in the township of Russell, Bay of Islands." He said the present place provided was a most paltry and unsuitable one. Mr. King seconded the motion. The Bay of Islands was the oldest and most neglected district of the Province. Valuable discoveries had lntely been made there ; a great influx of superior settlers was expected soon : and the Bill lately passe i allowed the ratives to sell directly valuable tracts of country to the settlers. Mr. Webster said he had recently visited the Bay of Islands, and was well acquainted with their wants, upwards of £4,000 had at times been deposited in an old ricketty house quite unfit for the purpose. Mr. J. O'Neill supported the motion. He thought the inhabitants of that District, were very modest in their present demands. He would suggest an amendment by substituting the k word " additional " for " supplementary." Mr. Ross supported the motion, and it was put and carried. Mr. A. O'Neill in the motion standing in his name, No. 3, asked leave to substitute the word " additional," for " supplementary," in the motion standing in his name. Leavo granted. SUPREME COURT. Mr. King brought up the report of the Committee appointed to report on the above subject. The Report was read and ordered to be printed with the evidence taken. Mr. King then moved that it be made an order of the day for to-morrow. Motion put and carried. privilege. On the orders of the day being called, Mr. Newman proposed the Superintendent's amendments to the Government Contracts Bill, when Mr Wynn said that he considered the adjourned debate on the Appropriation Bill was much more important than this measure. They had only eight days to sit before they bhould have to vacate that chamber for the use of the General Assembly. He would therefore beg to suggest to the hon. member opposite that he should postpone this order of the day, to make way for more important business. Mr. Newman said that as this would occupy no time in his opinion, he begged to move that it be proceeded with. Mr. Wynn would move, " That all the orders of the day be allowed to stand over till after the consideration of the Appropriation Bill." The bills had been transposed. The Government Contracts Bill did not originally st uid so high on the list. Mr. Newman said he had ordered the transposition. Mr. Wynn did not doubt hs had done so at the instance of the hon. gentleman opposite ( Mr. Carleton). Mr. Carleton : It was not at my instance. Mr. Wynn : I don't believe it. Mr. Carleton then moved, " That the words be taken down/' Mr. George seconded the motion.

The words were accordingly taken down. The House then divided on the motion, " That the words be taken into consideration in the Counci/," with the following result: ayes, 10 ; noes, 7. Mr. King trusted that both parties would give way, he should be very sorry to see the time of the House taken up by any acrimonious personal dispute. Mr. Carleton said : It is with the greatest pain that I feel compelled here to make a charge against an hon. member opposite. The more so as I highly esteem the member who has just spoken. The charge I make is this : the hon. member opposite said the transpositions made in a certain bill by the Government were at my instigation. I distinctly denied it, and the hon. member said, "I do not believe it.'] If he has anything to say in retraction let him do it. There is not a single member in this House, however much I have opposed him, who has ever doubted my word. [Mr. Coolahan: Oh! Oh!] Will the honorable member rise and say he has ever doubted my word ? Mr. Coolahan, rising, said : Yes. I have doubted

it. . Mr. Carleton : I am not an acrimonious man. If the hon. member has a single word of explanation to offer let him do it. Mr. Wynn said : I want to know what the charge is ? The honorable member says he had a charge to make against me, but he only makes a speech. Mr. Carleton :T will put it in writing. Mr. CO (LAHan rose to address the House, but as there was no question yet before it, it was ruled out of order. , Mr. Gallaugher moved that the business of the House go on. It was a wet night. Mr. Carleton : I beg the Council will attend to this, in order that if a single word bo erroneous, they may check it at once, before putting it formally. Mr. Wynn said the orders had been transposed at the instigation of the framer of the bill. Wheu I denied it he said, " I do not believe it." The honorable member having resumed his seat, Mr. Wynn said : I distinctly deny having used such an expression. Mr. J. O'Neill said the feeling of the House was that it was better to proceed with the business of the country than with personal altercation. Both parties had had their speeches ; now it was better to pour oil on the troubled waters. Mr. Cheeseman suggested that both parties should let the matter drop. Mr. Carleton said, he should move that the Speaker's Minute be put on record. Mr. Wynn said, he should apologize to the Council for not having used parliamentary language; but he would in no way retract the meaning of what he had Mr. Carleton accepted the apology made to the Council as sufficient. Mr. Cadman withdrew his motion of adjournment. And the matter then dropped, ORDERS OF THE DAY. superintendent's AMENDMENTS to government CONTRACTS ACT. The proposed amendments were the following : Omit the word " appointment" in the first line. Carried. After word "sane "in the 14th line, certain other words should be omitted " and to whom on conviction one half of the fine be paid." Mr. Wynn asked for some explanation of such extensive amendments. Mr. Newman said it was proposed to avoid clashing with a previous statute. Mr. Wynn opposed entirely such an amendment on a purely legal point being made by the Superintendent. The Bill should be carried in its entirety as it passed the Housa. Ho should ask that this amendment should be postponed, until it had received the sanction of the Law Officer of the Province. Mr. Newman was not prepared to agree to this. Mr. Carleton said : The Superintendent has a perfect right to make any alterations whether legal or otherwise, that he thinks fit. I myself drew up the draft of the Bill, and was rather fearful that.this wouid invalidate the whole Bill. It matters nothing how we have voted before, the opinion of the Council has been expressed, and there is an end of the matter. The fines were to be handed over to .'he Superintendent, but I am apprehensive that these words would legilly invalidate the Bill. I cannot help thinking that the hon. member (Mr. Wynn) after supporting the Bill so strangelv as ho did, now wishes to get-rid of it. Hence the reason of his strong opposition. Mr. Coolauan said law seemed to be the order of the day; they had here now the opinion of Mr. Wynn, that the matter should be referred to the AttorneyGeneral. Mr. Cadman told|thsui that he knew as

much law as any one, and Mr. Carleton said that he was not lawyer sufficient to legislate on the matter. What, then, were they to do? For his part he should support Mr. Wynn in his idea on the subject. Mr. J. O'Neill said that it did appear hard indeed to know what to do in the matter. He thought it an object that the bill should be passed. He would cert duly support the idea of its adjournment, so that they might get the opinion of the law officers on the subject. Mr, Newman sail that he had already accorded that information in telling them that the amendments were mad i with the full concurrence of the law advisers. Mr. Sheeuan said there were certain Latin terras ■in the bill that were just as hard for him to understand as some expressions taken from his beautiful language would be to other hon. members in that House. Mr. Ross would support the amendment. Mr. Sicbkn said if there was any necessity to do so, he would move that the biil be read this day six months.

Mr Gallaugher considered that the Bill was a direct insult to the Council. It was quite an understanding with hon members that they should not take contracts. He should support Mr. O'Neill's amendment.

Mr. Cadman said it was evident to him that his hon. friend Mr. Carleton in visiting the mother country had not also forgotten to pay a visit to the si9ter island and kiss the blarney stone. His deep humiliation in speaking of this measure was the best proof of this. He certainly considered the labourer worthy of his hire, and thought the wages of the informer in these cases should be just what they deserved. He trusted that if the Council did pass this bill, that they would be just, and let the man be he an informer or what he might that he should get the full wages of his work. He should maintain the bill as it stood, without they got further advice on the matter. Dr. Pollen hoped, after the expression of opinion that had been given relative to these amendments, the hon. Treasurer would accede to the motion of their, being postponed until Jsucb. time as the Law Officer's opinion had been obtained about them. Mr. Rattray thought that there was not the slightest necessity for postponing this bill ; he could not understand how the hill could be sent down to the House without the law officer's opinion first being obtained relative to the proposed amendments. Mr. Newman said in reply that hon. members seemed to ignore altogether what he had so frequently told them, that the law officers opinion had already been taken on this subject. He did hope hon. gentlemen would allow this bill to be now put without further discussion. If necessary he should press the matter to a division.

On the amendment being then put, the House divided with the following result: Ayes 7 ; Noes 15. The amendment was consequently lost.

The original motion was then carried. Mr. Newman then proposed that the bill with amendments be now passed. Mr. Wt.>jn then said that he should divide the House on this question. Ou the question being then put, Mr. Coolahan called for a division which took place as follows: Ayes 14 ; Noes 7. The bill was therefore declared to have passed. COLLEGE AND GKAMSIA.II SCHOOL. On the adjourned debate on the Question —" That an Address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting hiin to take steps to invest on Mortgage the money now placed to the credit ot the College and Grammar School in the Union Bank ; such mortgages not to exceed the period of three years," being called, Mr. Harrop said, he was sorry that the hon. member who adjourned the debate was not going to speak to this question, as he considered it a mafer of vital importance. Mr Wyxs would beg to interrupt the hon. member for a moment to ask what was the amount that had been deposited in the bank. Mr. Newman said, £2,600 at 4 per cent. Mr. Harrop continued : He believed it would be found from the appendix to the report of enquiry instituted in Session 14, that the property had greatly increased. He might suggest that the capital should be invested at eight or nine per cent., and also, that out of the sum of £7OO a year derived from that source, a portion of the money might be set apart for scholarships for candidates who had passed a specific examination. He might aiso suggest, if there were funds sufficient, that a lecture-hall should he also established. He thought that the sum of £360 might be satisfactorily employed, even supposing that they could not carry out this idea of lectureships. He thought that the scholarship misiht be awarded to all sects and denominations, provided that they passed the necessary examination. If honorable gentlemen would look over the appendix before referred to, it would be observed that a large portion of these leases had a long time to run, some of them for eight or nine years further. He did not think that it would be advisable to allow the money to remain idle for so long a time. He was fully alive to the difficulty of building a large institution with the limited capital that they had at their co:a:nand j bat he did think that a sum of £3OO out of the income might be fairly expended for the goodjof the community in the manner he had suggested. He hoped, whatever the decision of the Council might be, that they would give their earnest consideration to this subject. Dr. Pollen had not been in the House during the previous debate. He thought, however, the language of th?, motion itself showed the immediate necessity that a grammar school should be at once established. It was his idea that a chair of physics should be established, the professor of which should be well up in that especial branch called the chemistry of agriculture. He had at one time moved for a statement of the return of the Grammar School Trust. The return in round numbers was something about £4OOO. He thought that, with respect to the investment of these funds, the wants of the rising generation should be considered. If they had a year ago £3400, they should now have, with the interest, £4OOO, and a great deal could be done with L4OOO.

• Mr. King said he was not desirous of seeing this fund hoarded up for the benefit of future generations. The want of schools was much felt here. Some people sent their children to Sydney, and some to England, to get their education. It is well know;i that trustees were appointed for the purpose of carrying out the views for which these lands were granted, He thought they should at once endeavor to make this money available. If these endowmrnts were to be made practically available, he should like to see the funds and the carrying out of the scheme in other hands than those of the Superintendent, whose time was so much occupied that he could hardly give this important matter the consideration it required. He therefore moved the following amendment, "In the opinion of this Council, the revenue derivable from the Grammar School endowments should bo applied to the edueation of the youth of the Province, in accordance with the trust, and that his Honor the Superintendent do submit a measure to the Council to carry out that object." Mr. Wynn said he would not exactly agree with the amendment itself, although he agreed with the spirit. As far as he could gather from Evidence in Sessions, 14, there was at that time money which should have been invested, instead of being locked up for three years. They had at that time £3,500. At present they had £3.00'), besides an income of £7OO a year. This should be invested in giving the youth of Auckland a better education than they now can get. Mr. Newman sail that he regretted that he should have to oppose the amendment of the hon. gentleman (Mr. King). Amendment was then carried. Mr- King moved that an address be forwarded to His Honor the Superintendent. Motion put and carried. HIGHWAYS AMENDMENT BILL—THIRD READING. Mr. Newman moved the third reading of the Bill. The motion was put and carried. Mr Newman moved that the Bill do now pass. Motion put and carried. commodore's house. On the motion of Mr. Wynn, message No. 52 was read, and the House went into committee of the whole,

Mr. J. O'Neill in the chair. Mr. Newman then proposed that an address be presented to to his Honor the Superintendent, req-iesting him to dispose of the allotments referred to in the message, and by that means realise the amount expanded on the Commodore's house in Short-street. Mr. King asked whether the allotments referred to were not already the property of the harbor trust ? M. Newmam was not aware that they were. Dr. Pollen said that the hon. member had not told them the whole of the matter. He was evidently ashamed to do so. He was, at all events, glad to see that shame ; it might be construed into a sign of returning virtue. The hon. gentleman ought to know as well as he did that the allotments were Harbour Trusts. Had he made inquiries he would have found it out; any clerk in the Superintendent's office would have told him so. He could not show him just then the papers declaring these lots to be Government property, but he could lay his hands on them at once were he iu the Superintendent's office. What, might he ask, had the province to do with building a house for the commodore ? Did he consider the unlawfulness of spending money in this way without the consent of the Council? Is was shamjful. Was there no protection for the public money placed in the Superintendent's hands ? To what extravagances, unsanctioned by the Conncil would he go? Was this I never to stop ? He could not find words to

express his feelings on this subject. If justice | were done they would lea»e tho Superintendent and his responsible advi ers to settle the matter among | themselves. If the Council would go with him, he would saddle every sixpence on the heads ot those men who went to such useless expenditura It was altogether monstrous. His Excellency's advisers, no doubt, thought themselves very cunning He was glad to see shame in the face of the Superintendent's responsible advisers. Mr. Wynn Raid that there was one topic on which . ur. Pollen had not t mched. Even allowing that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Newman) was in error or ignorance as to those all iiments proposed to be sold being a lurbor trust, dll they not belong to tho province? Why coul i lot ihe General Government hive done this theuiMstves? Because they knew that the whole proceedings were illegal. Another question he would very much like to have answered was this, "Is the Commodore prepared to come here, to occupy this House, and to make Auckland the head-quarters of the Australasian Squadron? " If the information he (Mr. Wynn) had received was as correct as he believed it to be, ha was not prepared so to do. He did not believe that the Commodore would ever go inside the House. It would in about a year hence be turned into an immigrants barrack or something of tho kind, or perhaps the hon. gentleman himself would not object to occupy it. He felt that it was his imperative duty to oppose the motion unless he felt satisfied that it was required. Why should the property be put up for sale to raise useless public buildings ? Mr. Kino would ask the hon. member upon whose land the building had been placed ? Mr. Newman said, on the General Government land. Mr. Kin'q said, the question was, as to who was to conrrol the provincial expenditure, time ought to have been allowed before expending the money, to obtain the opinion of the Council upon this subject. He should be sorry to see this matter altogether thrown out, but would suggest that he ask leave 'to report progress and in the meantime send down to the Concil the information sought for. Mr. Rattkay said, if the question could be settled at once, all well and good, but if not, they had better wait until they could get some specific information on the subject. Mr. Wynn said the la> ds of the Province merely belonged to the Province, and the fact of their not having been handed over by the General Government was merely a matter of form. The General Government might sell it it was true, but they would have to give them credit for every sixpence of it. The General Government could not deal with them in any other manner. They were only the agents of the Province in the matter. -Mr. Martin thought the end of it would be that th«J property belonged to the General Government. .\lr. Kino thought that under present circumstances in connection with the war, it would be much more advisable that this matter should bo adjourned. He certainly must object to the course that had been pursued in this m itter. He would propose that this question be adjourned until Friday next. Mr. Wynn hoped the hon. member would reconsider the proposal of adjourning this debate. The hon. Treasurer told fiem first of all, that he proposed to dispose of the allotments referred to, and then told them that the matter was to be be brought forward on the estimates. -Did they want to pay for the building twice ? He hoped that the present resolution would be at once negatived, and that the hon. gentleman would withdraw his amendment in order that the matter might be considered in connection with the estimates. Mr. Kino had understood that the Government were to take over the allotments, in order that they might provide for the expenditure. He would be the last to propose the sale of any of their endowments. It wonld be remembered that he had moved a resolution to that effect. Mr. Niswman said he had placed this motion on paper in order that it might be taken into consideraby the Council. Neither the Superintendent nor himself had any desire to sell these allotments, if the Government would only provide for the expenditure in another manner. Mr. Kino said that the Treasurer had no at all to have any supposition on the matter. How could he tell whether or not the Council would be disposed to oppose this vote. The question of the withdrawal of the amendment was then put and carried. Mr. Wyn said there was a description of threat used in this matter they conld deal in no way with this matter without the consent of that Council. It was perfectly useless to tell them that if they did not grant the Expenditure they would sell the allotments in question. They could do nothing of the sort without their sanction. Tho matter had been placed before the Council in such a manner that he thought they would refuse to have anything to it. Mr. Swanson said that he should like to ask whether this land had been conveyed over to the Provincial Government. Mr. Newman said he would be prepared to give the information sought for after the proposed adjournment Of the question, He was hardly prepared to do so at this late hour in the evening.

Mr. Buckland said that he thought that the hon. gentleman who represented tha Government iu that House was very culpable in giving the answer he had done. He considered he ought to come there always prepared to give all requisite information. The Chairman having left the Chair on the motion of Mr. Wins, the House resumed, and then adjourned at 10 [o'clock, until the usual hour to-morrow (this day).

NOTICES OF„ MOTION. Mr. King to move, " That an address be presented to his Honor the Supaiintendont, requesting him to forward to this Council a return showing the amount of the liabilities of the Provincial Government ending 30th September, 1864." Mr. to move, " That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to cause a sufficient snm to be put on the additional estimates to put the Mount Smart Road in a thorough state of repair." Mr. Swanson to move, " The adoption of the following address to his Honor the Superintendent:— * May it please your Honor, —We, the Provincial Council of the Province of Auckland, in session assembled, respectfully represent to your Honor that we were invited during the last session of the Council by a member of your Honor's Executive Council to sanction the employment of Captain Daldy as agent for selecting emigrants for this Province, upon which occasion Captain Daldy informed the Council that he was going home on his own private affairs, and that he would not accept of any official appointment, unless he had the sanction of the Council. This sanction he failed to obtain. Yet, notwithstanding this statement, your Honor has informed this Council that Captain Daldy has accepted the appointment of Emigration Agent at a salary of £4OO a year, and agent in Britain for Provincial Government, with a commission of I per cent, on purchases made on behalf of the Province. We beg respectfully to inform your Honor that we received the intimation of the acceptance of these appointments by Captain Daldy with much regret, and we entirely disapprove of Captain Daldy's conduct, and we shall seriously consider whether it will not be our duty to withhold our sanction, if asked, to the payment of any salary or commission in respact of such appointment. We further respectfully request that your Honor will be pleased at the earliest opportunity to communicate this address to Captain Daldy, who will, they feel assured, at once relinquish his post upon being informed of the disapproval of the Couucil, of jiiis conduct of accepting official appointments in direct violation of his promise.' " Mr. J. O'NEiLLto move, " That an address be presented to; his Honor the Superintendent, asking him to send down to this Council copies of any correspondence received from Mr. Daldy, Agent-General for the Province."

Mr. Gallaugher to move, " That the petition of France Naithwood be referred to the Private Grievance Committee.''

Mr. McGbe to move, " That a respectful address bo presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the supplementary estimates the sum of £250, in addition to the .£l5O on the estimates, lor the Onehunga-road by Mount Smart." Mr. Winn to move, " That the petitions of Captain Krippner and John Oakes be referred to the Private Grievance Committee." Mr. Cueesehax to move, "That the petition of James Cook be presented to the Private Grievance Committee." Mr. Carletox to move, " That the petition of Edward Ashcroft Lines be referred to the Private Grievance Committee." Mr. Ball to move, " That the petition of ;George' Hall be referred to the Committee.' Mr. Gallaugher to move, " That the petition of Frances Hope Herbert Lloyd be referred to the Private Grievance Committee." Mr. Rowe to move, " That the petitions of Robert Baghan, William McKay, James Clarkson, and James Lowrie be referred to the Private Grievance Committee." Mr. Coolahax to move, "That the petition of Joseph Hawkswood be referred to to the Private I Grievance Committee."