PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealander, Volume 13, Issue 1132, 21 February 1857, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 1857. [:) o’clock p.m.] Mr. CAULETON rose and said : They had now entered upon a new day, and he believed Mr, LEWIS rose to order: The Speaker had already ruled that no one could address the chair till the present division was settled (hear). The SPEAKER admitted the correctness of Mr. Lewis’s remark. He then said, a course had been suggested to him which had not escaped his own notice, and he would now, wiih the consent of the House, move that lie should leave thechair, on the understanding that he resumed it to-morrow. He wasaware that there was a great difficulty in the present instance, and that there was no precedent to guide him: but as he fell, ami no doubt other Iron, members felt, the fatigue of silting so long, (indeed, he should not be able to continue sitting much longer,) to relieve himself and them be would therefore take the responsibility on himself, lie could see no other course, but that be should leave the chair-

Mr. J. O'NEILL : Although bon. members no doubt might he exhausted with the long sitting, that was not the question. What was the course the Speaker intended to pursue ? Did he move an adjournment, or did he simply leave the chair [Mr. Caiileton ; Order.] The SPEAKER expressed his inability to continue much longer in the chair. Mr. J. O’NEILL continued: He was not satisfied. They had been sitting there all this time to decide a point of membership, and now the Speaker, proposed to leave the chair, although that point had not been settled : therelore he (Mr. O’Neall) should not not consent to any understanding. Cries of “Order” from the opposition and great confusion, Mr. I). GRAHAM insisting to he heard if others were. There was also an great commotion i the gallery, during which the Speaker rose to go; when Mr. BUCKLANI) inquired whether the Speaker was acting on the understanding that he did so by mutual consent ? The SPEAKER; On the understanding of consent of the Council. Mr. MERRIMAN ; 1 presume, sir, it is of your own freewill, mere motu, and that you purpose to take your seat again to morrow ? The SPEAKER ; Yes. Messrs. BUCKLANI), BOYLAN, and other members repudiated anything like an understanding or agreement. Mr. J. O'NEILL would not consent to such a step They would remain if even the Speaker went: a quorum would keep up the House. Mr. KELLY’ would remain while he had a leg u> stand on.

Mr. MERRIMAN said he would remain while the Chairman presided, as long as there was any hope of doing business, hut not after.

Mt. KELLY pointed out clause Mo.‘.'l of the Constitution Act, (providing for the appointment ot a “ Chairman ’ in the Speaker’s ah-ence) and wished tor the Speaker s opinion thereon. The SPEAKER said he was aware of the clause, hut it did not apply in such a case as this.

The Speaker then, gathering up his papers, left the chair, at half-past .1 o'clock, amidst great excitement in and out of the House, .shortly after the Executive left—A sufficient number of the Government supporters, with one or two of the opposition, remaining to form a House. After a while, Messrs. Dockland and Drennau re-entered the House, and having communicated with hon. members, n was agreed that they should all vacate the House at the same lime, which was acted upon, and thus the Council closed for this day. THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1857, The Council re-assembled this afternoon at three o’clock, when all the duly-elected members were present, as was Mr. I), (irahain—the Council-chosen extra member for the Suburbs. The gallery was again densely crowded with the supporters of both parties, and with strangers or parties belonging to other Provinces hut now in this city. It was evident that on all sides there was an increased state of excited interest m the upshot of the dead-lock in the proceedings o! the Council. The Speaker look the chair a little after three o’clock, and in Ins face and in the faces of many of the members there wensymptoms of the fatigue caused by the prolonged sitting of the previous day am! night. On both sides, however, there was the determination not to give way, even though this stale of things should continue for a fortnight.

Such being the understanding as to the feeling on both sides, there was a general hush as, alter the opening prayer had been read, the Provincial Law Officer rose. Mr. MKItIt IM A N said—Sir, I am aware I am not strictly in order in addressing any observations to the Council —[“hear,’’ from Mr. Cakluton] —that I can only do so with their consent. But 1 trust that under the very peculiar circumstances in which we are placed, 1 may be allowed to make a brief statement. There is no denying the tact that the present Government lias a majority in the Council: but there is also no denying the fact that the minority have the power, after the ruling of the Speaker, of keeping us in the fix in which wenow are (hear, hear). 1 will at once admit so much ; and I will not go into the question whether that mmoritv, in the course they are so pursuing, are acting for the good of the country ; that point they must settle for themselves. 1 will not even ask whether there is any subtle spirit, like that which “ Squat like a toad, close at the ear of Kve,"

which induces them to persevere in their present course; hut I will merely ask them if they have any proposition to make to the Government for removing this ohsiiuction to husinc-s, which shall not involve any dereliction of principle on either side. I cannot give up the principle I hold—and Ido not ask the othei side to give up one iota of theirs. But if they have any proposition to make which will get us out of this fix, and enable us to carry on the necessary business of the country, we are ready to entertain it (hear, hear).

Mr. CAHI.ETON said he rose, not as the leader of the opposition—for he was not the leader of the gentlemen on this side, and there was no opposition (a laugh), but as one who had taken an active part in this ipieMion. t hey were now asked if they had any proposition ; but he must ask the Government to point out what proposition could he made by them (the opposition) without a dereliction of principle. lie (Mr. C'arleton) hail no wish to stop the necessary business of the country —at all events, at present (hear). He believed he might say those who usually acted with him were unanimous on one point—that Mr. 1). Graham was a member of the Council, and that they could listen lotto overture till his name had been received as a mem tier of the Council (•• hear,” from the opposition). Mr. MEH HI MAN said—lt is perfectly absurd to expect that the Government can admit that Mr. I). Graham is a member of this Council; and it is equally absurd to ask the Executive to suggest any proposition for escaping from the present dilemma, for which they are not responsible. 1 was about, Sir, on a former occasion, when I wished to adtlress the house, to make a proposition which I thought would have effected the object in view; but was not allowed (hear). I am not in the confidence of the member fur the Hay, nor of those who vote with him ; and therefore cannot tell what may be their intentions. Hut, before 1 sit down I am going to make a statement which will show that I do not desire to continue the present slate of things. 1 tlo so entirely on my own responsibility—without consultation with any of my colleagues or my party. Do not let me he misunderstood. Ido not mean to say that 1 have not mentioned what I am about to slate to any one; for 1 have to one or two of my friends. Hut 1 do say that 1 have not consulted with any one, and that what 1 do is entirely on my own action and responsibility. 1 have thought deeply over the whole matter, f ind I made up my mind thoroughly—l finally decided what course I should pursue—before 1 mentioned anything to any person. The ditliculty into which the Council has been (nought, arises out of a dispute as the tight tonne of the scats for the Suburbs, for which district 1 am one of the representatives. Now a proposition was made to me yesterday, in the presence of another member (Mr Hucklaiid) —which 1 then refused, because, if 1 had accepted it in the presence of a member of the Executive, I should have involved him also in the matter. As 1 before said, what I now do I do on my own individual responsibility. The proposition made to me yesterday was that I should resign my seat —that Messrs, 1). Graham and Daldy should resign their scat: for the scat is between them (a lauuii) and that we should present ourselves again to our constituents for election. 1 know that, as a party man, it will lie said that in what I am about to do, I shall not he acting rightly to my party —that it will not settle the question in dis pule. Hut, as that proposition was made to me yesterday by a relation of Mr David Graham’s, as a means of getting out of this fix, I assume that it was made in sincerity, and I accept it in the same spirit (hear). This will be one solution of the difficulty in which we now are. I repeat, 1 have consulted none of my own party about the matter. Since I have made up ii. y mind, 1 have mentioned it to several parties—some of whom approved, some disapproved of it. 1 lake the whole responsibility upon myself. And I tell Messrs D. Graham and Daldy that, if they will resign their scat, 1 will resign mine, and then we will all go again to the constituency, and let them decide, who shall be their representatives.

Here the hon. member was interrupted by a loud and, judging from its spontaneity and heartiness, an all-hut unanimous cheer from the strangers in the gallery : who had previously listened with the most silent attention.

The SPEAKER said Ins attention had been called to the presence of strangers in the House It was exceedingly desirable, for the proper conduct of the business of the House, that theie should he no repetition of such scenes as had lately taken place ; and he Imped that on both sides there would he henceforth a complete abstinence from such expressions of feeling (hear, hear).

Mr. MERRIMAN: 1 have no wish for applause; I have sought for none. lam acting on what 1 believe right and true grounds—an earnest desire for the good of the country. 1 care not for what my party may say of the course I am taking, even if they should repudiate me for it: for I am doing that which, on my conscience and in the sight of God, I believe to he calculated to he conducive to the welfare of the Province: and, relying on these grounds, 1 am prepared to resign my seat and go again to my constituents (loud cheers).

Mr. CARLETDN saiil he was not the organ of Ids party (laughter), and (we understood) lie had nothing to say on the matter.

Mr. DALDY rose to make a statement, when the SPEAKER said that, ns there was a dispute as to membership, it would lie belter if (as we understood) neither of the gentlemen claiming the seat would take part in the present discussion. Mr. DAI.DV said he only asked permission now to speak as a matter of courtesy (hear, hear from the Government benches). The SPEAKER said lie had, under the circumstance?, allowed Mr. Merriman, as the leader on one side, to make a statement with a view to the settlement of a dilliculty, and lie had allowed another member whom he (the Speaker) might term the leader on the oilier side, to make some observations in reference to that statement: hut if others were allowed to speak, an irregular debate was certain to ensue.

Mr. (,’A ItMCTON thought that in common fairness the gentlemen in question should be allowed to make known their decision on this proposition (bear, hear on both sides). Mr. MKIUUMAN suggested that the two gentleman referred to should be allowed an opportunity of conferring with their party, and if any member would move a temporary adjournment for that purpose, the executive would oiler no opposition.

Mr. U. GRAHAM would ask Mr. Merrimun what he said wfit'll this proposition was first made to him (

Mr. MERRIMAN (laughing) t Well, I should not exactly like to say just now ; for I spoke hotly and hastily at the time. [Mr. Rocklandi Hear, hear!] . Mr, D. GRAHAM: You have canvassed the .Suburbs since Mr. MERRIMAN: On myhonour I assure you I have not. Mr. D. GRAHAM : No one for you ? (cries of •• order.”) Mr. MERRI MAN, after objecting to the tone of the question, said he had not canvassed at all since the proposition was made to him yesterday. He certainly had mentioned the matter to two electors who happened also to be members of that House, Mr. Digital)and (we could not catch the name in the excitement that prevailed), But, as he had already said, he had neither directly nor indirectly canvassed his constituents. Mr. CAULETON moved and Mr. B ROD IE seconded, that the two parties claiming the seat, should he allowed to address the House, as Mr. Bushy had been allowed to do in the General Assembly. The SPEAKER ? As private gentlemen ? Is that the understanding of the House? (Hear, hear), Mr. DILWORTH : May I ask if their remarks will he pertinent only to the matter in hand > The SPEAKER: 1 assume, as a matter of course, that that will he the case.

Mr. I). GRAHAM then said: This proposition emanated from myself, on my own responsibility, and without my consulting anv of my party or constituents (“ order ” and laughter)—l withdraw the word. 1 wrote it, and included the name of Mr. Daldy in it. I did so in good faith, and hoping it would solve the existing difficulty (hear, hear). If it had been accptod at the time I would have abided by it, and then legislation would have gone on for the good of the country I wrote out two propositions—[Mr. Mrkkiman : Three.] —To one no reply was made ; on another some minute was made. When I named the matter to some of my own side, some of them approved, and others not. I made the proposition in the hope it would have been accepted at once (oh, oh, and hear. hear). But what has been the result f I have ascertained this morning that some person has been about among the electors of the .Suburbs canvassing them as to whether they would return Mr. Merriman again.

Mr. MERRIMAN here asked for the name of this party ; which Mr. D. GRAHAM declined to give; on which the SUE AKER said that, as Mr. Merriman had distinctly repudiated having do e what was charged against him, the allegation ought not to be repeated. Mr. I). GRAHAM said he did not attach the matter to Mr. Merriman (oh, oh ') Mr MERRIMAN again distinctly disclaimed having in any way canvased his constituency s nee this proposition was made in him. He had only named it to one or two members of this Council, and only to them within an hour or two of their coming down to the Council (hear, hear), lie had communicated with no one else.

Mr. R. GRAHAM: But I did to some of your party— [Mr. Mkhkijian intimated that he was not to blame for what the lion, member did].

Mr. 1). G R AIIA M again said he <li<l not attach blame to Mr. Mcrriinnn, since what was done might have been done wilhouthis knowledge. He added that, as bis proposition had not been accepted at once, he could not now act without consulting his party (hear, anil laughter). Mr. DAI.DV said that before he commenced to remark on the proposition now made, he most disclaim being led by the member for the liay, and must protest against Mr. Merriman’s attack on that bon. member, in likening him to a toad—(loud laughter.) Mr. MKUIUM AN rose to correct the bon. member's misapprehension. lie (Mr. Merriman) had made no attack on the member for the Hay: be bad merely, in reference to a spirit which, were it necessary, be could define, made a quotation from a work which the member for the Day could tell Mr. Daldy was a well known poem, namely, Paradise Lost — (hear, hear, and laughter). Mr. DAI.DV continued: When this proposition was made, it was so unknown to him ; and he learnt that it was rejected with scorn—in terms which the Council would perhaps learn from the gentleman to whom they were addressed. After the Council had been detained twenty-four houis to no purpose, they and himself were now asked all of a sudden to agree to a proposition which, at the time he heard of it, he thought was impossible. When he was on the hustings, he stated that he considered Mr. I), Graham was duly elected, and that the only reason which induced him to come forward was to assist in getting the dilliculty which had arisen settled in a Constitutional manner (hear, and laughter); and he thought the mode now proposed was an unconstitutional one (ironical cries of “ hear !")

Mr. MKRIU M AN, as allusion had been made to the terms in which he had at first rejected this proposition, wished to explain that, at the time he. like most other members, was excited : under the influence of that excitement, he used strong language—language certainly not parliamentary, and which, in calmer mood, lie would not have used (hear, hear). Mr, CaRI.ETON and Mr. HENDEILSON endeavoured to stop Mr. Merriman, contending that he had already spoken several times, and (the latter member adding) was endeavouring to bespeak the sympathy of the house for his hot words. Mr. MERRIMAN: No. no.

The.SPEAKER ruled that Mr. Merriman was in order, his name having been introduced by the previous speaker (Mr. Daldy).

Mr. MERRIMAN having again risen, Mr. R. GRAHAM endeavoured to prevent him from explaining; whereupon the member for the Suburbs said he was obliged to take thisVipporlunity to explain, as tie could not do so had another member addressed the house after Mr. Daldy. He would only now say that he was not aware at the time that Mr. Daldy was not cognizant of the proposition : having now learnt that, he would move an adjournment, to give the hon. member lime to consider the proposition Mr. It GRAHAM, as his name had been mentioned in this matter, stated the circumstances under which he had met Mr. Merriman and Mr. Duckland the previous day, and his handing the former a proposition from Mr- I). Graham, and asking him if he were prepared to do wtial was there proposed. Mr Merriman said, “ Why should I resign my seat ?” I replied, (continued Mr. Graham) "Because you are the legal adviser of the Superintendent, and have advised him to act thus illegally; and you should therefore go hack to your constituents for their opinion on your conduct,” Mr- Merriman replied, “ 1 don t care a d n for my constituents. I have a reputation as a lawyer at stake ; and I have written to obtain the opinion of th.ee of the best Constitutional lawyers in England on the subject. 1 shall send through my brother, and when I have obtained them, 1 will publish them for the information of the Province.” At the time this proposition was first made, he (Mr. R. Graham) would have been glad to see it accepted ; but not so now, for he had since obtained information that a party holding a situation under Government had been dismissed from his situation la-cause he had not voted for Dr. Pollen—[Mr. M Kit in man : " Name.”] It was Mr. Osborn, the poundkeeper at Newmarket — [Mr. Mkiikiman: We will answer this at another time.]—He (Mr. It Graham) had named this oiler in Mr Russell, who said he hoped it would Ik- accepted.— [Mr. MkhuimAnß “Hear!” and laughter]—hut as it had been to flatly rejected he hoped no such ultm alum would he again ottered to the Government —(hear, hear, from the Government benches.)

Mr. MERRIMAN and Mr. BUI KI.AND, after a good deal of stormy interruption from rhe Opposition, explained again as to the alleged contemptuous expression with regard to the Suburban constituency, that Mr Merriman spoke solely in rcfeience to the legal point in question—saying he did not care a for such opinion on a legal point. Notwithstanding this explanation, which was home out hy Mr. Duckland as strongly as suited by Mr. Merriman, Mr. It. (ill MIAM (after conferring, as he had done several times before with Mr. Carletonl declared that his was the tight version. Mr. MERRIMMN then said that such declaration was a positive falsehood ; whereon Mr- R. Git Ml A M demanded a retraction of the offensive expression. The SI’KMvER reminded the hon. member that Mr. Merriman had disclaimed having made the statement imputed to him ; and then suggested to Mr. Merriman to withdraw the expression.

r Mr, MERRIMAN said ifMr R. Graham would say that such had been Ins impression, he (Mr Merriman) would withdraw his contradiction altogether: as it was, he said, in the strongest language (re could use, that such statement was positively contraiy to fact (hear, hear). After some further conversation,

Mr. DAI.DV said, as the matter had gone so far, he would now say that he thought the proposition was an unconstitutional manner of getting over the difficulty; and looking to the manner in which the Council and the Province had been treated by the present Government, five minutes reflection had been sufficient to convince him that he ought to reject the proposition (ironical cheers from the Executive benches). Mr. m nil 111 M AN then briefly recapitulated the reasons which had induced him to accept the proposition, and again stated that lus sole desire had been to conduce as far as he could to the welfare of the Province, at any personal sacrifice (hear, hear, and applause). The CLERK was about to read the minutes of the previous day, when Mr. MERRIMAN said there were some prior minutes still to he read.

Mr, CARLE TON said that to solve that difficulty—and it was a very dilliculi question—he would move that the Council do now adjourn (“ hear, hear 1” from the Executive). On the question being put, Mr. BRUDIE called fora division.

The .SPEAKER, before a division was proceeded to, said he w ished to remark that *ho scenes enacted on Tuesday could not he again permitted (hear) ; the doors would beat once locked, and not again opened till the division was declared : so that all who remained would have to remain to the end (oh, and laughter, and a cry. " This should have been done before.”)

While the SPEAKER was addressing the strangers, Messrs. Brodle (the demander of the division) Henderson, A. K. Taylor, and It. Graham, quietly stole towards the door, Mr. MERRIMAN drew the attention of the Speaker to the fact, hot the Speaker took no notice of the ahsquatulation of these Progress members until they were outside the chamber, when it was too late to get them back. They, consequently, were enabled to go to their homes. Mr 11A V also endeavoured to make his exit at the front entrance: hut his name was called so loudlv, that the leader of the opposition beckoned the hon. member hack; and, less fortunate than the other Progress members, the builder of Government House had the pleasure of passing another night in the house.

I'he house was soon cleared of strangers; the members were left almost alone in their glory ; and both they and the few strangers who kept their seats prepared themselves to pass the night as best they could. Hooks, and chess, and viands of all sorts appeared to provided in abundance. An incidental discussion on two or three points of order arose in the course of the evening (as a similar discussion arose on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning ;) but want of space compels us to postpone our notice of both discussions, and the Speaker’s rulings, till our next number. FRIDAY, FEB. 20. I'he t'ouncil remained locked up all day, with the exception of the four members before named, and of Mr. May, who extended Ins leave of temporary absence without leave—an extension to which the attention of the Speaker was drawn. During the day, a considerable number of persons assembled about the building, to see how the members comported themselves under their imprisonment t but the only public sympathy manifested was for the supporters of the Government. At H o’clock. ;i. m.. a knocking was heard, and was repeated, at the entrance-door : when the gentleman Knocking was heard

to say, “ A Message from his Honor the Superintendent,” the throng was speedily transferred from the outside of the hall to the Strangers’ Gallery, which was immediately filled as closely as during any of the preceding days of the crisis. Mr, BOYLAN ashed how it was the public and the members, before locked out, had obtained admission (hear, and laughter.) The SPEAKER said he could not say. He only knew there was a message from the Superintendent, and that the gallery was filled with strangers. He would now read the Message. The Message (which will be found in another column) expressed the Superintendent’s regret at the obstruction to public business which had arisen at such a critical Juncture; and that the difference on a point of order had not been allowed to be settled ; it also stated the resolution of the Government to proceed, as far as possible, with public works, and the fact that the Superintendent had resolved to prorogue the Council under the power vested in him for that purpose by the Constitution Act. Accompanying the Message, was a copy of the Proclamation for the Gazette proroguing the Council. The Message and Proclamation were received with general approval, especially in the Strangers' Gallery, and as the members of Council were separating, three cheers were given for the Superintendent, while the members of the Executive majority were thanked for the stand they had made against a factious opposition.