PARLIAMENTARY.

Marlborough Daily Times, Volume X, Issue 314, 12 July 1888, Page 2

PARLIAMENTARY.

Per Press Association

Wednesday, July 11

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tho Council met at 2.30. CONFERENCE ON TIIE CHINESE Bill. Dr Pollen reported that tho free Conference on tlio Chinese Bill had been unable to arrive at a settlement of the question. THE CUSTOMS DUTIES BILL. The debate on tho second reading of the Customs and Excise Duties Bill was resumed by M • Millar, who condom led the method proposed for obtaining further revenue. Mr Pharazyn also condemned the 1 1 riff. Mr M'Lean said the bill was a,compromise, and ho did not know that a better tariff under the ci :cu instances could be constructed. Mr Waterhouse said the Council must pass the bill, although no doubt distasteful to the hon. members, especially as be thought Government had not exhausted all sources of economy.

The Council adjourned at 5.30 till 7.30. On resuming at 7.30., the mo.ion for the adjournment of tho debate on the Customs Bids was agreed to by 13 to 3. The Fencing ActAmendrne.it Bill was read the th’rd timo and passed. The Christchurch Rifle Range Bill and the Opawa Education Bill were considered in Committee and reported with amendments. The Council rose at S 10 p.m.

Tuesday, July 10,

EVENING SITTING

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

The ITouso resumed at 7.30. Mr Mackenzie continued the debate, and said the minister would admit that his policy had nor been successful from a revenue point of view. The provision for changing perpetual lease to deferred payment tenure was objectionable as it would encourage dummyism. He opposed the abolition of land boards. Mr Cowan was not afraid of dummyism and thought that settlers would find relief from the Bill. He thought it would have been better if some provision bad been embodied in the Fair Rent Bi . Ho objected to tbo abolition of boar Is and thought tho minister would be beaten ara : n on this question as ho w. s Ln-t session. Mr Hobbs did not wonder at members of land boards opposing the Bill. Zi was absurd to complain that tho Act had not done all expected when it had only been working a few months. Pie took exception to one cr two minor points in the Bill but otherwise lie heartily supported it Mr Pyke characterised it as a very dangerous Bid with one or two good provisions. He doubted if the jn’tiLter really knew what ho was trying t > do. He strongly condemned the abolition of land boards, and said the e!a : ..uiea'.xon was a delusion and could never be carried out. Mr Merchant pleaded the cause of the bush settlers, who desei ved the utmost considerations fr ra hie G /verumens and land boards. He thought nothing but a judicious laud poncy v.ouid ,;tt chocoic ey from the slough of ..v.-poiidenry and do- 1 pi-.-ssioa. lie was strongly iu favor of, the boards.

Mr Keir took a similar view to Mr Pyko. He objected to centralising land bus'ness in We;’’ngton. People wero satisfied with tho boards and would trust commissioners.

Sir G. Grey had hoped to see some great scheme of laud settlement suggested by the Government which would restore vitality to the country. Ho laughed at the idea of settling ;393 people on 9500 acres, while two and a half .million acres wero given away for nothing to a railway syndicate. That area would have absorbed 15,000 people at the same rate. Ho adversely criticised tho whole system of land laws existing at present, and he twitted the minister with having adopted i’i the Pill a number of propositions which he (Sir G. Grey) has brought forward year after year without success. Dr Newman gnvo credit to Mr Ballance for opening up a largo area for settlement. Enormous tracts still remained) towards opening which nothing was being done. Mr Turnbull thought this would bo a very different bill when it came back from the Waste Lands Committee. 110 understood Government did not intend to subdivide runs in the Mackenzie country when the leases fell in in IS9O. This was a great mistake. Nothing hindered tho progress of the country more than theso huge estates, and most of them, too, heavily mortgaged. Canterbury had to find one million of money every year for interest. He did not expect Government to deal with the question of breaking up big runs; it was more than their seats ■were worth.

Tho discussion was kept up by Dr Hodgkinson, Major Steward, Messrs Hutchison, Blake, R. Thompson, Tanner, and Duncan, who spoke briefly, and generally in support of tho bill. Messrs Valentino and .Anderson supported the measure. Mr Percival also supported it, with some reservations.

Mr Richardson, in reply, said tho allegations as to want of energy in pushing on settlement wero unreasonable, as sufficient time had not yet elapsed to enable the land to be brought iuto the market. He would ho most happy to receive suggestions as to tho publicity of classifications in the Waste Lauds Committee. He pointed out that tho bill did not abolish land boards; tho Act of last session did that, and ho only proposed machinery to enable their work to bo carried on without friction when the time expired. Having alluded to a few other objections brought forward, tho bill was read a second time without division, and referred to the Waste Lands Committee. Wednesday, July 11. Tho House met at 2.30. Mr Hamlin, in tho abseneo of tho Speaker, again took the chair. QUESTIONS. Replying to questions, it was stated that Government intended making Local Bodies pay interest on securities now hold by Government for trust funds and other purposes ; that tho whole of tho questions of the mail service between Great Britain and New Zealand would be submitted for the consideration of tho House. TH AST WAY ACT. Tho House went into committee oil tho Tramway Act, 1872, Amendment Act. The bill was reported with amendments,

which were ordered to bo committed on Friday. NATIVE LAND BILL. lion. Mr Mitohelson moved the second reading of tho Native Laud Bill. Tho feoling among tho Maoris was that tho j time had come when they should bo allowed to deal wdth their lauds as they liked. Many representations had boon made to Government, wdio had come to the conclusion that tho wishes of tho natives should bo acceded to. In consideration of this it was thought tho Maories should be made to bear taxation as well as Europeans, and consequently it was proposed to render their lands amenable to rating. He was a ware tho natives strongly objected to this, but when tho matter was looked iuto closely, tho proposals of Government would be seen not to bo unfair. Briefly stated, tho bill repealed tho Native Land Administration Act, and allowed the natives to alieuato their lands as they chose, subject to provisions preventing their denuding themselves of the whole of their property. Protection was afforded to existing contracts and documents, and finally all mting acts would henceforward apply to native lands. This would not come into force in tho King Country and Thermal Springs District till July 1, 1891, by which time it was expected tho land would have passed tho Native Land Courts It was intended to refer tho whole of the nativo bills to a joint Committoo of both Houses, by which means it was hoped a measure would be perfected that would not require to be amended for many years. The House adjourned at 5.25.

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30. The Hon Mr Bailanoe contended that the bill did not coincide with tho views that the Hon Mr Mitehclson had enunciated during recess, and lie had expected some explanation of this change. He agreed that the landsharking lately had not been .successful, but that was heeauso they hid bought too dearly, and could not get roads through their lands to open them up. Ho denied that this measure could properly be callol freetrado in native land. It had long b. on understood that the principle was a failure beeiuso the natives refused to deal with their land ruder the existing law. Government had said it was a failure, and they must have all the land thrown open without distinction. He reminded tho flouse that tho present Government had been clamorous when in Opposition for the acquisition of native land, and hud even insisted ou a sum of money being set apart for that purpose. He insisted that they could uot now overlook tho question of settling I he land at present locked up in native lands ; yet the bill would enable large tracts to be bought and turned into sheep runs to exclusion of settlement. lie defended the action of his Government, and asserted that it had the unanimous approval of all the Maori members, a thing quite unprecedented, lie urged that some restriction should be inserted in the Bill to prerent monopoly. The area to be purchased by any one buyer should be limited. He quoted an instance of a transaction iu which ExGoveimor Ft-rgu.-s.sou was said to bo concerned to give point !o his argument. As to rating propomi.-, he said it would be quite impossible to collect rates until the tithes wore mtliviciuehtc-d a he proposal was quite unworkable; besides, natives already paid special fees ou sale or lease of their land. Another difficulty he foresaw was that the Native Land Court.- would have their work so enormously increased that they would never got through it. On the whole he thought that the expense and trouble of th >o Native Bi’L would be more than a’l the good they would effect. The effect would bo tlie abandonment of tie Northern Trunk Railway. He objected strongly to handing over the B il to a joint committee. Mr Hutchison thought the Equitable Native Owner* Act should cither be repealed, or a clause :usc-v ? o-i dea ,: ng with titles proved before 1N73. Ho was strongly opposed to the imposition of r ites and in other respect* took much the same ground a* Mr Uul auce. In the Land Court Bill he noticed a clause which could

only bo intended to cloak illegal acts, and clothe them -with tho sanctity of the lard transfer title. He hoped the Home tt "would never consent to it. He took a ' numbor of othor legal exceptions to the various items in tho native bills. Mr Hobbs supported bill, except the rating clause. It would give relief both to Europeans and natives. Ha had always advocated that natives should be encouraged to individualise their titles. Ho would liko to see penalties made moro stringent for meddling with the land until it had passed the Court. He denounced Mr Ballance’s native bills as most m:schiovous. Mr Beetham commended Mr Ballance’s franknoss in admitting his act had been a failure. He thought these bills were in the direction of finality, but did not approve of forcing natives to pay rates at tho presont juncture. Mr Kerr thought the native bil’s were what ho called legal swindles, and merely designed to whitewash doubtful transactions in native land. Mr Carroll said ho shared Mr Hutchison’s objections, but in the main supported tho bill, so that it might bo thoroughly threshed out in committoe. He was in favor of striking out a now line, and agreed with tho plah now proposod. He I was afraid clause 4 would open the door to validation of somo very doubtful transactions, and ho disliked tho rating clause. His idea was that wherever Maoris Beemed anxious and able to be put on the same footing as Europeans, it should be dono.

Mr Buchanan suppoited the B ;1 1, but thought the question of buying rates should be carefully looked into, Mr Graham warmly supported the nativo policy now announced. Mr Taipua explained In's reasons for disliking tho Bi'l of 1886, He said that most of tho disputes and wars had been brought about by the Government purchasers. Ho would like to see the Maori* allowed an opportunity of devising the land laws for themselves, to seo if they could not do better than the Europeans had done in tho past. As to this Bill it was the worst they had over had, and the Government had not consulted the natives. The rating c’ause was especially objectionable. He cou’d not support the measure.

Mr Pratt thought tho wholo tenor of the bill unfavorable to tho Maoris. Ho had heard it explained that it would apply only to land, and not bring inside issues such as taxation. Tho natives in the South Island should not bo allowed to sell their land. He opposed tho proposal to refer tho measure to a joint committee. Mr Smith would prefer to seo one comprehensive measure instead of four amending bills. Ho thought Government ought to have kept pre-emptive right in their own hands. The area of purchase must be restricted if they were to prevent monopoly, and precautions shoo’d bo taken to promote settlement. Mr Tawhanga continued that the native difficulty would soon bo removed if they wore ontrustod with tho management of their own lands. He was not in favor of tho Bill and hoped to see it referred to the Nativo Affairs Committoe.

Mr Rhodes thought it would be a great mistake to allow any of tho natives in the South Island to alienate their laud. Messrs Kelly and Cadman Buppoited tho measure. Hon Mr Mitchelson having briefly replied, tho second reading was carried on the voices. On the motion to refer it to committee, Mr Taipua moved as an amendment to refer it to the Native Affairs Committee. Lost by 2S to 27. Tho House rose at 12.50 a in.