SOCIALISM

Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume XLII, Issue XLII, 18 July 1923, Page 5

SOCIALISM

DEBATE IN COMMONS,

EVILS OF EXISTING SYSTBM

THE REALi REMEDY.

*V; CABLE— PIIESS ASSOCIATION- -O&^BIGHT LONDON J.^ y 16. ■Sir John Simon resume*! tfoe debete on Socialism, initiated on. Ma-rch 20 on Mr. Philip Snowden's resolution.

Sir John Simon said he> was as much as the Labourites, te the evils of the existing system, hut he believed *hafc the evils were i#> b© avoided not hj destroying the system root and branch, but by coatEolling operations •for the .public g©i>d. There was no -^guarantee iJaat the supersession of capitalism would provide employment tor -everybody. He quoted the case of iQuesnsland, where 4h« Labour Bart.y iad -introduced a wide scheme of nastionalisation,- and -the railways after .years showed « deficit of 'one .and

* -half .millions, while in 1921 Queensland -bad more ueemployment than &ixy other country in-the world. Under the system -the workers would be •deprived of the-right to strike. •Sir John Simon could not see how /•under Socialism, they could .avoid the «onJscwption.of labour, including penal ■3abour institutions for those who refused to do work assigned them. Their Jssaiu object.: must be, to humanis© inand. that could, best be done '% legislation, _ placing the public needs -and human rights before private interest, and > not by sapping the energies ■or _ undermining the liberties' of the U^itish people. .Mr, Clynes said Sir John Simon's was inspired by the head and »ot by -the heart. The progress made, *o far .in human affairs had been made •in spite-of the capitalist system. They *ad iinparalleled poverty in the -country. Millions of wage-earners were •in a ./state of hopelessness insecurity, --and-slavery. There was probably more wicked and wanton extravagance today than ever before. Mr. Clynes ■claimed that wherever State ownership 3bad been tried with the consent and ,-goodwill of .the people it had proved a success.

-Mr; Eclwavd Greufell (Conservative, -City of London) declared that the principles recommended to British -workmen by their leaders contributed a.< much as anything to the present position.

Mr. Lloyd George cteclared that the was to uproot the system "which, with all its defects, had raised -the country to pre-eminence in wealth . and power, and to substitute something "which, had sm>t been tried anywhere. In its precarious and complicated machinery of commerce Britain was the worst country in the world to make *uch an experiment. They might make at in a country with great inherent resources, agricultural and mineral, and of it failed they* could restore the posi--tion after a good many years of suffering, but .that was not the case in -Britain, which had built up a great business on 'generations of goodwill ©He* that goodwill was- dissipated they have spent their resources. Those amo were anxious to preserve the pres*art system.should be most anxious to remedy the .existing evils, so as to pre--rentf the workers of the country from -xaahing into ■disastrous experiments The rear danger they had to face, Mr. Lloyd George, was that tthfi party which was out to change the T^?^ oli der' of, t3? ings reived 4^t/4,U00 votes at the general ©lection. Jf Ahe.jierjod of depression was going *o be prolonged, Mr. Lloyd George t&am he was apprehensive regarding; the I -prospects. JBven if they settled the reparations question and they secured ;^eace v orily ;thsn the real trade rivalry 3wouid «ommenGe. " France had enormously increased her capacity for pro■duction the very things we were 3>lacing on foreign markets. The same sfcfamg was true of Germany. He appealed to the Prime Minister to institute a .Parliamentary inquiry into the causes of .the present discontent, and concluded:: I warn the House that the -situation as grave. The post-war condi iiions are n __Mr. Newbold (Communist member for -Matherweil) .declared it would be impossible to .expropriate the capitalist aciass by .peaceful jneans. If the Labour Party_ attempted ..to" enforce a capital Jcvy,. and the capitalists resisted, noth^ ang would Happen a series of resolutions, as the Labour Party had bewared it would not use force. Sir L. Anrary,, replying, said the Got •rnment recognised the evils as they existed to-day, :but recent improvements were justification for the. belief ■*hat with goodwill greater improvements would ensue. He repudiated the adea that production by the administra . -stion of the Sta.te was best calculated to *:ivo the highest results. From the rpmrtt of view of ■efficiency the present «ystem, whatever its defects, had a 4RFeat advantage in that it provided for o continual testing of efficiency by results. Under Socialism the'whole industry would be controlled by Parliar"~3Hent, and the only test (at long inter■yals) would be a general election. In a«9i:t'ion to the postmaster-general *here would have to be a butcherfteneral, a baker-general, a grocer.jfen^rail, and a clothier-genera1!. ..Mr. Jones (Labour V: .What about a atfimster for fried fist? ..

Sir 1,. Amery: Yes, and a Ministry for -yoiiltry-and rabbits, and perhaps a seetretary ffor underwear.

Sir "L. Amery said fhat if an «nq\iiry into the causes of the present unrest ~as suggested by Mr. Lloyd George «how<*d any hope of yielding practical *esults. there was no reason why it -«liou3d not'b« carefully considered. He -*s^ed the 'House eniphatica;riy to repudiate • the illusory dream of Mr. xJSnowderi's resolution.

Mr. Macdonald denied that there •would 'be any. -vislent overthrow of the existing system. Modern d^d

-n&b mean a large State buseatieraey. It a^as impossible to avoid trusts and -monopolies under capitalism. He objected to the domination of material--isn% inherent- to the capitalist system. There were only two parties—Capitalist and Xabour.

The motion was defeated by 368 to 331.