THE BRICK INCIDENT.

Evening Star, Issue 8609, 1 September 1891, Page 2

THE BRICK INCIDENT.

A PARTY VOTE. MB BRYCE'S RESIGNATION. [Prom Oca Pabuamentaby Reporteb.} WELLINGTON, August 31. " Will Mr Bryce resign ?" was the question' universally raised in the lobbies and about the streets of Wellington on Friday and every day sinoe; but to-day speculation was confined to when the resignation would be tendered, from the time it became known that the Government would not accept any motion for expunging the resolution of censure unless the member for Waikato would make some expression of contrition for having declined, when called on by the Chair, to withdraw the words " the Premier ought to be ashamed of himself." All hopes of returning to the status quo were dispelled when the House met at 2.30, because it was then known that Mr Bryce had written out hiß resignation, and that it was in Mr Rolleston's charge, and would be handed in to the Speaker in the course of the afternoon. The proceedings virtually began by Mr Soobik Mackenzie raising several points of order, in which he contended that the House had failed to follow the constitutional practice by directing that Mr Bryce'a words be taken down before any motion was submitted. It was also urged that the member for Waikato should have been afforded an opportunity for explanation of the senEe in which he used the word "ashamed" before beirg subjeoted to the oensure of the House; that he had, in fact, been condemned in the first instance and heard subsequently. There was also a very long discussion as to the words actually need by Mr Bryce, and considerable diversity of opinion was ! shown, Mr Rolleston pointing out that the trial of Mr Bryce took place with dosed doors, without the ordinary cheoks of publicity that obtained in regard to any ordinary trial, and that was a matter which the gentleman whose character was impugned ought to h&vo tire bouofib vf. A* BOOU BS members had exhausted their comments on the matter of MB SPEAKER'S DECISION.

Mr Speak.be roßetorule upon the member for Mount Ida's points of order. Bespoke for fully half an hour. At the outset he said that throughout the whole of this unhappy business he had not, so far as he was aware, exceeded the duty imposed upon him as president of the House. It might be true that the word "ashamed" had previously been used in the House without being ohecked, but it was not necessary that the Speaker should, on all oocasions check every word he did not consider desirable. He oited an authority for his action, and, after making a lengthened review of Thursday's occurrences, he said that when Mr Bryce nßed the word " ashamed " he was interrupted with cries of "Order." It waa evident that he had not finished his sentence. He (the Speaker) did not interefere, but was at once asked whether the word was parliamentary. Knowing that it was unparliamentary, he had ruled accordingly. [Here Major Steward quoted two decisions of Mr Speaker Peel that the imputation of shame was an unparliamentary proceeding.] After having given his ruling he took no further action, and neither had his illustrious oompeer in the House of Commons. The Premier, in the exercise of his undoubted right, demanded that the word should be withdrawn. Then Mr Bryce said that he would decline to withdraw; that there were members of the House who bowed to Mr Speaker's ruling in the letter, but not in the spirit; that he was not one of those ; and that he would adhere to his words and take the consequence. Mr Bryce was a gentleman who paid most punctilious regard to the Chair as a rule, He (Major Steward) had never known him to fail in the most complete submission and respect to the Chair; and he would say most distinctly and gratefully that in his position as Leader of the Opposition he bad been most courteous, oonsiderate, and kindly towards him (Mr Speaker). Notwithstanding this, the hon. gentleman had on this occasion clearly indicated that, if called on by the Chair, he would not withdraw his words. He (Major Steward) did not perceive at the moment that the hon. gentleman was speaking under the influence of feeling. He did not demand the withdrawal, because he saw that it would be met instantly by a refusal, and oause the unpleasant necessity on his part of naming the hon. gentleman. As to the contention that the words were so trivial that no further proceeding should have been taken, he would not say whether he might or might not have found it necessary to take any action. Suffioe it to say that he did not take any. The next step was the request that the words should be taken down. Mr Scobie Mackenzie, amidst murmurs of dissent from the Government party, here rose and said: If you, sir, refuse to listen to what I have to say Mr Speaker : I have not done so,

Mr Mackenzie : Bat the House seems disposed to say so, I am not at liberty to say that the House ought to be ashamed of themselves*.—(Cries of •• Oh, oh.") lam not going to say so. Mr Mackenzie went on to ask Mr Speaker for a distinct rul ag upon his contention, based on Mr Speaker's owo words, that Mr Bryoe's expression was technically unparliamentary, but not actually so. Mr Fish protested against a person interrupting a judge when giving judgment.— (Cries of "Order.") Mr Si'EAKEE said that the words first used were clearly unparliamentary. He had subsequently stated, and he still maintained, that if the words " for relying on a technicality " had been added, they would to some extent have reduced the weight of the preceding sentence, The House would see that a broad assertion that a man ought to bo ashamed of himself might imply shame for all sorts of shameful reasons. The actual meaning waa limited, it being stated for what the shame was imputed. Anything beyond that was shut out; but later on a resolution of censure had been passed, and Mr Bryoe then said that the full sentence would have stood " the Premier ought to have been ashamed of himself for relying upon a technicality." The wordß taken do wn by his (Mr Speaker's) authority was done in accordance with the Standing Order of the House. As to Mr Mackenzie's third point, he (Mr Speaker) had himself read to Mr Bryce the words taken down, Then it was that Mr Bryce was understood to offer some words in explanation, to the effect that they did not give the full sentence, and that he was about to use the words already quoted as far as the word " technicality," after saying which the hon, gentleman left the Chamber. Coming now to the fourth point, Mr Bryce did not deny that he used the words taken down; on the contrary, he admitted it, and said he had intended to have added certain other words, If the hon, gentleman had asked at that time to be allowed to make an explanation, he (Mr Speaker) would have been glad to have heard it, and he was sure the House would have been the same, for the same reasons. Be wished he oould do otherwise, but he oould not sustain the points of order raised by Mr Mankenaie. It appeared to him that there had been no failure of order. Ail that remained was this: Unfortunately, during a debate in the House certain word's were used which were not in themselves of anything like a highly disorderly or offensive nature, but whiob upon modern authorities—and it was only within the last four years that this had been authoritatively laid down—were unparliamentary. If, on their being declared unparliamentary, Mr Bryce had said that he would withdraw them, what had since happened would have been avoided. He (Major Steward) most sincerely hoped that it might be possible that Mr Bryce would become convinced that most certainly on the part of the Chair there had been no intention to do an injustice, and that as he believed on the part of the majority there was no wish to east severe censure for a mere accidental lapse from parliamentary order. Here Mr Speaker lowered bis voice, so that it became almost inaudible in the Press gallery, bat he was understood to say that he hoped it would yet be possible to restore peace and quietness. If there was anything he could do he voluntary offered bis services to the House; he oould say no more. Sir John Hall said that he had understood Mr 'Speaker to Bay that if Mr Bryce had added the qualifying words which he had intended, he (Mr Speaker) would not have felt called upon to Interfere,

Mr Spkakeb : I hare stated that diatinotly. I have never interfered through the whole of this business. The Hon. Mr Rolleston would like, before handing in the resignation of Mr Bryce, which had been entrusted to him, to aßk the Prettier whether, in view of the circumstances, &ud in view of the appeal that the Speaker tad made to the Home to deal with the question as one that arose superior to technicalities, and also because the question affected the honor of a gentleman who was universally respeoted in the House and in the country, the Premier was prepared to make any mition in the direction the Speaker bad indicated ; if not, he (Mr Rolleeton) bad a painful duty to discharge. He would, however, wait to see whether the Premier would lead the Honse to such a Bolntion of the case as had been indicated. THE GOVERNMENT'S POSITION.

The Premier said, after Mr Speaker's clear ruling of the matter, he thought the House would agree with him that anything that was done should be done unanimously, or nearly so. (Hear, hear.) He understood Mr Bpeaker to say that the hon. member for Waikato ought in some way or other to recognise the authority of the Chair. The House might adjourn at once, in order to communicate with the hon. member for Waikato, and he was sure he spoke the sentiment of every member on his own side of the House when he said that there was no desire whatever to infliot upon the hon, member for Waikato' any humiliation.—(Ministerial cheers.) Noapology was required from that hon. gentleman, and if there could be any approach on the part of the hon. member to the Speaker, any recognition whatever of the ruling which had been laid down with regard to the meaning of words, it would be quite satisfactory to the House, and he (the 1 Premier) should be the first to move that the vote of censure be resoinded. No one regretted more sincerely than he did what had taken place, and if be could uphold the dignity of the House or Mr Speaker's position in the matter he should move at once » rescinding renal"** o *. Ho ids me matter entirely in Mr Speaker's hands to see if any good could be done, and he respectfully suggested an adjournment, in order that the wishes expressed from the Chair might be given effect to in some form. Possibly, wtth an adjournment a reconciliation might be arrived at in deference to the wishes expressed by Mr Speaker. Mr Spkakeb : If the House thinks well, I would suggest that we adjourn till 7.30. (Criesof "Yes,"and "No.") THE RESIGNATION TENDERED. The Hon, Mr Rolleston, speaking with evident feeling, said that be had a great responsibility put on him with regard to a communication which he held in his hand, and he did not think it was a question of reconciliation. This Howe as a court of justice bad passed its tentence. If reason had not been shown that afternoon for reconsidering the decision come to, he did not think it was a position for Parliament to put itself into, nor did he think it was a position for his friend, the member for Waikato, to put himself into, to come to Parliament as a suppliant in this matter.—(Criea of "Oh 1" from the Government side, and cheers from the Opposition benches.) MrTATLOB: Resign. Mr T. Mackenzie : Oh, you want him out! THE RESIGNATION HANDED IN. Amidst considerable excitement Mr Rolleston was observed to walk up to Mr Speaker and hand in Mr Bryce's resignation, which was immediately read. Mr RoLLEsroN thereupon suggested that the Premier should at once proceed to take the ordinary course. It would be only just to Mr Bryce and his constituents to do so. The Premier seemed to hesitate, and Mr SrEAKEB, on being appealed to, said he thought it would be better to move theissue of a new writ. The Premier then moved that a writ be issued for the election of a member for Waikato. THE ABSOLUTION OF CENSUBE, Mr Rolleston proposed, as an amendment, to add to the motion —• "That the resolution of censure be expunged from the journals of the House." He hoped that the House would look on the question as one above all technical considerations. This was an occasion when great principles rose above technicalities. They mutt realise that, however strongly Mr Bryco felt, he was asserting a grest truth when he spoke, and that he would be doing a wrong if ho withdrew his words as a mere technicality. Captain lussei.l seconded the amendment. The Premier thought that Mr Rolleston had taken a very unusual course. He would, however, not comment upon it, but would suggest that the House should adjourn till the evening. At 4 40 an adjournment was accordingly made till 7.30. MINISTERIALISTS CONSIDEB THE POSITION. A caucus of Government supporters was held immediately the House rose to consider tho position, and it was attended by thirty-eight members. The Premier presided. Messrs Carroll and Geobge Hutchison both suggested that an addition from the Government side of the House should be made to the amendment in the direction of expangi»g the vote of censure, but this was objected to by many members, and on Mr Pinkerion's motion it was resolved that the amendment should be resisted, bat that, with the exception of an indication by the Premier as to tho way in which the amendment was to be treated, it should cot bo discussed from the Government side of the House. In the course of the proceedings Mr Sacndkb.t expressed the opinion that the Premier had made a m-stake in agreeing to an adjournment till 7 30 p.m., for immediately Mr Bryce's resignation was presented the time for temporising was at an end. THE DISCUSSION RESUMED, The Premier, at the evening sitting, said he was sorry that he could not accept Mr Rolleston's amendment, as it did not coma at a proper time. It was too late, and ought to have been moved when there was an opportunity to get ont of the difficulty. Mr Speaker's good offers towards a reconciliation had been rejected, and the resignation had been hastily presented. Mr Rolleston : Not hastily, The Premier said it was evident that the hon. gentleman had not been prepared to accept the offer for reconciliation. He firmly believed that had a short adjournment been made, seme way out of the difficulty would have been seen.—(Cries of "No.") Well, his side of the House had been ready for it. They could not accept the amendment when it was proposed to the House in its calmer moments. Some other proposal might have been made after the Speaker's clear statement of the law of Parliament. Bat Mr Rolleston had taken a wrong oourse.—(Government cheers.) Sir John Hall asked why the Premier had not made his offer of aoaommodation when Mr Rolleston indioated, in pretty plain terms, that he had the resignation in his possession.

The Prehieb: I did; I suggested an adjournment, Sir John Hall thought that the Houae iraa now in a better position towards rescinding the motion than It was before Mr Bryce had resigned. That gentleman had no longer any connection with the House ; bat he was a man who had held important public offices, had rendered great services to the colony in times of great difficulty, and was held in very high esteem. That being so, it was a question whether the vote of censure upon him should remain on record. [Sere Mr Taylor made an interjection which caused Sir John to retort tbat when he wanted the opinion of the member for CbrUtchurch he would ask for it. To intrude without being asked was a simple, piece of impertinence.] The Minister of Mines amid&t laughter rose to a point of order.

Mr Bockxanp : That's it, expel another member ; shove him oat. Mr Speaker, asked the member for Ellesmere to withdraw the wordß, which were likely to give offence.

feir Jomr Ball : Sir, I bow to your ruling. Mr Scobie Mackenzie, amidst renewed laughter, reminded the Speaker that Sir John's words were used in answer to an interruption which was itself disorderly. Mr Speaker said that Sir John had already withdrawn them in a gentlemanly way.

Sir John Hall went on to urge that the words used by Mr Bryce had frequently been used of late without

oheck or objection. He did not Bay that they ought not to be stopped, bat It should be done after a fair warning, and not necessarily be accompanied by severe punishment. It was now no longer a question of asserting the authority and dignity of the House. The Premier would be consulting the feelings of the House and, he was sure, that of the colony—(Cries of "No, no," and cheers)—to remove the stigma whioh had been affixed to Mr Bryce. He hoped that the amendment would yet be agreed to. After a pause, and cries of question, Mr Scobie Mackenzie submitted lengthy reasons why the censure ought to be cancelled, and contended that Mr Bryce had committed no offence whatever so far as the Sractice of the House had been hitherto, [embers should remember that the trouble arose from Mr Bryce having commented upon the action of the Government in evading responsibility for one of the grossest and moat odious of possible charges against a member who had a stainless character, who bad been a Minister of the Crown, and who was reapected by every member of the House. The charge had be6n quoted as being the words of a dead man, and it was alleged that Mr Richardson had basely betrayed bis trust. Mr Fish rose to order, and submitted that as the Minister of Lands had more than once denied the use of the words they could not now be referred to.

Mr Speaker reminded Mr Mackenzie that he must not allude to a past debate. M' Mackenzie, a few seconds later, repeated that the Minister of Lands had made a gross charge of corruption. The Minister of Lands Baid that he bad never used the words imputed to him. Mr Mackenzie still contended that the words that were used by the Minister implied gross corruption. They were that Mr Richardson had been "squared." Oateide a carpenter's shop they could only have one meaning—namely, that money bad been received for doing something contrary to the interests of the colony. Nothing was moro likely than that to call for the righteous indignation of the Leader of the Opposition. Had the action taken by the House been taken against the vilest criminal in tbe Supreme Court—had such an one been condemned first and then allowed to explain, it would have been the foulest slander upon British honor. Though the Ministerial party called themselves Liberals they forgot the very name of liberty. Let them vote as they liked, the Opposition would allow the country to judge as to the true merits of the question.—(Opposition applause.) Mr G. Hutchison still thought that the House had prematurely passed judgment upon Mr Bryce. After he had simply completed his words without any explanation the house passed its censure. It was then that he was called in, and he made an explanation, which, had it been offered before, would have been satisfactory. Under these circumstances the House had made a mistake, and there would be nothing unworthy in withdrawing from it. I Mr O'Co.nor appealed to the House to ! set aside rubbish-imported precedents, and tike a common-Eenße view of the matter. For his part, he would do anything to remove an unjust stigma, Mr Fisher quoted various strong terms which had been used from Government supporters, to show how words which were objected to when used by one side of the Houae were overlooked when uttered by the other.

Mr Reks claimed that Mr Bryce was given every opportunity, but after he had been listened to in explanation he asserted that he would not withdraw, but would take the consequences. He (Mr Reea) had not moved the vote of cenaure until the Speaker had ruled Mr Bryce'a words to be unparliamentary, and after that gentleman had defied the Chair. If the House had allowed Mr Bryce's action to go by without expressing ita regret it would have been abrogating for ever all olaim to self respect. _ When a convicted person committed suicide was his sentence to be obliterated. No one compelled Mr Bryce to resign, and his very resignation was a continuance of defiance. Mr Swan considered that this solution was a most disgraceful thing.—(Laughter.) The Minister of Mines rose to a point of order, but Mr Speaker, amidst further laughter, said that the hen. gentleman had not finished his sentence.

Mr Swan went on to say that it was the most disgraceful thing that had ever happened in any Australian Parliament. He referred to the expulsion—for it was nothing eke—of one of the most highly respected men in New Zealand.

The MinistkkofMines again appealed for a ruling. Mr Speaker said : If the hon. member for papier were characterising the proceedings of the House he was not entitled to use he word "disgraceful,' It was a word which could not be app'iul to the proceedings of that House. Mr Swan withdrew it, Out said that the proceedings were discreditable. Mr Spbakeb said he could allow the hon. gentleman to say that, in his opinion, the proceedings were not creditable, but ho must not say that they were discreditable. Mr Swan conoluded his speech with these words: He could not sit down without expressing his deep disgust. Here Mr Rolleston's amendment was put, and lost by 34 to 26, the following being the division list:—

For Mr Rolleßton's addition (26).—Messrs Buokland, Buchanan, Duthie, Ferzus, Fisher, Grey, Hal), Hamlin, Hirknesa, G. Hutchison, Kapa, Lawry, M. J. 3. Mackenzie, T. Mackenzie, Moore, Newman, O'Conor, Richardson, Rolleston, Russell, Swan, Taipua, J. W. Thomson, Valentine, Wilaon, and Wriftbt. „ . Against (34).—Messrs Ballanoe, Baick, Cadman, Cirncross, Duncan. Eamehaw, Fish, Fraaer, Guinness, Hall-Jones, Hogg, Houston, W. HutchisuD, Joyce, J. Kelly, W. Kelly, Maodonald, Maointosh, J. M'Keosie, Meredith, C. H. Mills, Parata, Perceval, Pinkerton, Rees, R. H. J. Reeves, W. P. Reevo', Saundeis. Seddon, Shera, K. Smith, W. C. Smith, Tanner, and Taylor. Paire.-For Mr Rolleston's addition: Messrs Mitohelson, Macarthur, Rhodes. Against: Mo«ra Ward, M'Gulre, and Dawson.

The motion for the issue of a new writ was then carried on the voices, and the House went on with the Land Bill in oommittee in as calm a spirit as though no heat had been shown in tho course of the day's proceedings.