DEARER LIVING

Evening Post, Volume XC, Issue 85, 8 October 1915, Page 3

DEARER LIVING

SOLVING THE PROBLEM BILL BEFORE PARLIAMENT WHAT THE MEMBERS THINK AN ALL-NIGHT DEBATE. No subject has been more frequently ! mentioned during the present session j than the increased cost of living, and members of the House of Representatives had ample opportunity to discuss the question last night, when Sir Joseph Ward (Minister for Finance) moved the second reading of the Cost of Living Bill (a summary of which .has already been published). The debate opened briskly before full galleries, but in the small hours of the morning it dragged drearily and developed in a large extent to a repetition of views already expressed, and most of the members' benches were depleted of their tenants. THE MINISTER EXPLAINS. Sir Joseph Ward explained the Bill at length. Its main object, he said, was to establish a board to deal with all kinds of goods. There were all sorts of ideas existing as to what systems should be brought into operation to give practical effect to the proposals contained in the Bill. After a very close examination of what had taken place in other parts of the world it seemed futile to attempt to insist on a minimum or maximum price for any articles in this country. In every country in which this system had .been tried it had failed. Under the Bill it was proposed to establish a board with very far-reaching powers. The real object was to prevent exploitation, because it was owing to this exploitation that the Government and the people of this country objected to any undue interference with the foodstuffs of the people. He did not object — and he was sure no other men in the country would object — to traders getting fair profits for any article they were engaged in the sale of. It was natural in a time of war that living became higher and accentuated the interest taken in the problem of the control of food prices. He was certain that no one wanted to block the avenues of legitimate trade. On the contrary, they wanted to encourage it, and in every way improve trade generally throughout the country. It was impossible at the present time for a man with an ordinary salary — an average salary — to live and bring up his family properly; ».t ail events a young family. It was next to impossible for him to do so and pay his way Messrs. Payne and Webb interjected a loud concerted " Hear, hear." Sir Joseph went on to state that it required to be remembered that this law waa not to exist only in times of war, but /was to be perpetuated in times of peace. "Commandeering" might be possible in war times to a limited extent, but his own idea was that it would be impossible in times of peace. In the case of the "commandeering" of tfiemeat this was authorised by a great purchaser, the Imperial Government, which found the money, but it would be a very different thing if, by iteelf, the Government had. attempted to prevent the whole of the meat export. The same thing applied to batter and cheese. TO PREVENT EXPLOITATION. One of the chief objects of the Bill was to provide a permanent board, with very full powers, in order to prevent exploitation taking place in this country. It was his intention, when the Bill was in Committee, to introduce an amendment similar to a provision in the Commonwealth Act, where the words " contrary to the public interest " were inserted. In the absence of such an amendment there wonld be no power existing in this country to enable associations to have prices fixed for articles when it would be in the interest of the masses of the people to .have prices fixed. He referred to a celebrated case in Australia, in which it was found that it was in the interest of the public that an association, which formerly had been called a combination, should exist in order to keep down prices. He desired to call the attention of the House to the | fact that the Bill contained proposals somewhat similar to material points recommended in the report of the Cost of Living Commission. The attention of members was also called to what the speaker termed the extraordinary position in respect of the cost of living in New Zealand by comparison with other countries. •He had looked into, the matter, and had found that the cost of living had not advanced as much in this country as in Canada, the United States, Australia, and the United Kingdom. At the same time, the advance in this country had been very material. The ad vances in connection with foodstuffs, which were the highest, were 34 per cent. Rentals had increased 20 per cent, by comparison with what they were not many years ago. It was therefore necessary to have a system by which there could be prevented the placing of unfair prices on the top of fair and reasonable prices. It was absolutely essential that there should be an effective system to prevent exploitation going on in New Zealand. Unlike anything of the kind that had beer provided in this country in the past, this Bill proposed to establish a permanent board. BOARD'S STRENGTH TO BE INCREASED. Since the Bill was introduced it had been decided to increase the number of the appointed members of the board from two to three, in addition to the Minister of Commerce and Industries, who would preside over the meetings of the board from time to time, and to whom the board would report the result of its enquiries and its recommendations. The salaries of the proposed members wlio were to be appointed would, he hoped, be brought down in the Supplementary Estimates to-morrow night. Mr. Poole : Put a Labour representative on the board. Sir Joseph Wajd replied that he was noD going to make any promises. The whole business of the board would depend ,on its personnel. (Hear, hear.) Men of experience and undoubted integrity would be required, and it would be necessary to have them free from any interference, political or otherwise. He did not want to say anything about the personnel of the board; but he would say that the members must be practical men. Mr. Fletcher : They must be alive ! Sir Joseph Ward : " I recognise that." The Bill, he continued, was a- considerable advance on anything that had preceded it. He then explained its provisions (which have already been, published). It provided, among other things, that if the Minister could not give entire attention to the matter in hand he could delegate the right to exercise the powers under the Bill upon any one member of the board. This would meet the case where distant investigation had to be made. COMPARISONS WITH AUSTRALIA. Sir Joseph Ward then proceeded to give some comparisons in the cost of living with Australia. Mr Knibbs, the CbmmOnWWlith Btt.ai.iufcirtJa.n K*J «a.i/1 tkxt

between the period of the month before the war and May, 1915, bread in. Sydney had risen 14 per cent., in Melbourne 15 per cent., Adelaide 42 per cent., Perth 42 per cent., and Hobart 28 peT cent. He submitted other figures and assumed that the rise would be similar in New Zealand. It could therefore be seen how difficult would be the task of arranging for a maximum or minimum price. Flour during the last six months in New Zealand had fallen nearly £6 a ton, and it would have been impossible to follow it up and down with fixed prices and yet give a fair return to the manufacturer. As to the future, it was impossible to tell what the altered conditions as the result of the war would be. Probably the war had pushed us 100 years on. But the standard of living had gone up. In making comparisons with Australia we had to remember the different conditions of things existing in the two places. In Australiathe average weekly income per family of four was £4 13s Id, as against £3 4s 3d in New Zealand. The average weekly expenditure in New Zealand was £1 Os 2d, and £1 3s 3£d in Australia. The expenditure on the average income in New Zealand was 34 per cent. ; and the average cost of 4 per cent, in ail groups was 4s 53d per head ; and, in cases where the income was £169 per annum with a family of four, 3s 8d per head. In Australia the figure was from 4s 5d to 4s ll^d, and in the case of incomes of £169 it was 4s, as against 3s 8d here. Sir Joseph Ward went on to point out that in the last fifteen years the standard of comfort had risen very greatly. , Wages also had. risen greatly. This had come with the increase in the coet oi living. The two went together. STATE CONTROL AND BARGAINING. Mr. T. M. Wilford said that members had looked forward to the Bill. In 1913 a Royal Commission was set up to enquire into the question, and for the first time members had that night heard that Commission's recommendations praised. There seemed to be no clause of the Bill to show that the National Government realised the necessity of substituting State control for bargaining. Unless this was done, it seemed that there could be no reduction in the cost of living. He failed to see where the proposed board had any power. He asked the Minister, after the debate, to point out in simple language one clause in the Bill would would enable the board to do anything. It was really a Royal Commission, composed of the members who comprised the board, with only powers to enquire and to report, and he suggested that it would be an expensive method of ascertaining the position of these various matters. What was going to reduce the cost of living? There was no Bill or Act in existence on the Statute-book which enabled the individual monopolist to be controlled. Could the honourable gentleman, or any member of the House, point to any clause in 1 , the Statute law of this country or in this Bill which would allow the Government of the day to deal with the individual exploiter? The Commercial Trusts Act of 1910 made no such provision. It dealt >with exploitation by associations, but not by the individual. And to whom could the board report? Only to the Government, and the question was not what the board was going to do, but what was the Government going to do? "You might as well attempt to catch a flea in a rat trap as to catch, the individual exploiter" added the speaker. He considered that if there # were going to be men to control economic conditions in this country they must be men with power to act immediately. They must be given full confidence. It was true that success would depend on the personnel of the board, but the personnel, if power to ict immediately were withheld, could not be the determining factor in. successfully carrying out the provisions of the Bill. The board had no power to act. If the board could find exploitation they should be able to go to the nearest Court and there have the exploiter laid by the heels. _ The determining factor was the national need. The sole factor was the Empire's need. He proceeded to discuss at length the different causes of increases in the cost of living. It seemed to him that in the matter of war taxation the Government had gone the wrong, way about the matter. Instead of imposing a primage duty of 1 per cent., which would increase the cost of living, the Government should have first of all got in to the war profits and eliminated them. They would have then found that the cost of living would have been reduced automatically. Freetrade should have been advocated between all parts of the British Empire, and an exchange of those surplus commodities without any tariff wall which each part set up to the other. The Bill made no provision to prosecute a trader who put up the price of his commodity to a higher price than would provide a fair profit on that article. Supposing three butter factories were paying out by way of bonuses £90,000 or £50,000 as the case might be, and the price of butter was fixed at Is 3d or Is 4d, how was this Bill going to reduce the price of butter? If it was found on enquiry that the producers were getting 30 or 40 per cent, in excess of last year, how was the proposed board going to reduce the price of this article? He again asked the Minister to show him one clause in the Bill that would affect the price of one single article of foodstuffs required by the people. IS IT PIFFLE? "On first reading the Bill," eaid Dr. Newman, "I thought it was piffle, and I have not got very far beyond that stage." (Laughter.) He went on to show how the State Fire and Life Insurance Departments had kept dowi> the cost of living ; and the fact that the State had intervened had kept down the waT risks. This was practical work. Some people fortified themselves with Adam Smith and the older economists, and talked principles based, on those fusty viewg. Mr. Payne: They are extinct as the dodo, doctor ! Dr. Newman : "No, not quite, because you have only to look at the last two Commissions and you will find the same fustian views in them." A Commission, to be of any use, must be up-to-date. He cited what Britain had done at the outbreak of war in purchasing sugar and keeping down the price, and suggested that if the State here had purchasad 50,000 boxes of butter at say Is 4d, and put it into cold storage, it could have beep sold in the winter and would have kept down the cost of the article. State trawlers would have brought us cheap fish ; and the same could have been done in regard to wheat purchase, if action had. been taken at first. He pointed to the economy practised in Germany and the lectures that had been given on thrift at the outbreak of the war. Something of the same sort of thing could have been done here. He thought the Bill would do good, but the whole success or failure would depend upon' the gentleman put in charge of the reforms which it was intended to effect. At 0.40 a.m. the debate was still in progress, but members were conspicuous by their absence, only threo Ministers and eight members, more or less jaded after a strenuous week, being in their seats. THE PRIMARY PRODUCTS. Mr. C. J. Parr said that one of the great necessities of this country during war time was to get money from abroad to help to pay the taxation and provide the money required, so that there would be no interference with the primary products. At the same time it was necessary 10 keep down the cost of living, and h* vp.nt.urrd to suggest, that

when the Minister obtained the report of the board he would (with the ample powers conferred upon the Government by the wo previous Acts) be able to bring down the necessary machinery legislation to reduce the cost of livingTHE MINISTER IN REPLY. Sir Joseph Ward, in replying, strongly criticised the remarks of the member for the Hutt, who, he said, had drawn attention to the ineffectiveness of the Bill. There was already on the Statute Book the necessary legislation for giving effect to all the suggestions the honourable member had made. The joke of the thing was that those who had taken part in the framing of the law seemed to have forgotten what they had done. As to the fixing of prices, the Commercial Trusts Act provided that at any time, the Government might fix and determine the price of any commodity, while clause 7 provided that the standard price was to be that prevailing on Ist August, 1914, before the outbreak of the war. The honourable member for the Hutt seemed to have forgotten the purpose of the Act. Mr. Wilford : Oh, nonsense ! Sir Joseph Ward: "He misled all the other speakers. Some of them have gone home, and are not prepared to accept their gruelling. Just imagine my having to suffer these indignities." Under the Bill, the board would have power to investigate all matters relating to prices in New Zealand, and, if it was necessary to commandeer them, the board had every power to commandeer. ' The member for Hutt had said that, under the Commercial Trusts Act, an individual could not be prosecuted, but if the member imagined that the Government of the country was going to allow any board to run riot without the Governor-in-Council having anything to do with it, then we were going to establish a system of panic in this country. The proposed board had power to make any recommendations to the Governor with a view to keeping down the cost of living. AMENDMENTS IN COMMITTEE. In Committee, the Minister moved an | amendment that the Board of Trade consist of two members instead of three, also the following subclause to Section 13 : — "The establishment, equipment, and maintenance of borough councils of trawlers for the purpose of engaging in fishing, and the carrying" on by such councils of the business of dealing in fish as a food supply." With these amendments the Bill was reported to the House at 4.30 a.m., read a third time, and passed.