THE COUNCIL MEETS.

Evening Post, Volume LXXXIII, Issue 29, 3 February 1912, Page 5

THE COUNCIL MEETS.

WHAT THE SUB-COMMITTEE DID A FULL EXPLANATION. MINUTES AND RESOLUTIONS QUOTED. WAS THE MISINTERPRETATION WILFUL T An emergency meeting of the City Council was held at 11 o'clock to-day, when the Acting-Mayor (Mr. J. Smith) announced that the sub-committee set up to meet a sub-committee of tho Strike Committee would make "an explanation of what occurred yesterday." It may be explained that the council's subCommittee consisted of Messrs. Atkinson and Shirtcliffe and M'Laren and Fletcher (who in the earlier negotiations had taken up diverse attitudes), and the Mayor. Mr. M'Laren waa not present when the proceedings commenced. The Acting-Mayor eaid that the subcommittee appointed by the council had met t the sub-committee appointed by the Strike Comftiittee. A basis of settlement was arrived at, and the subcommittee of the Strike Committee said they would take the matter to the Strike Committee (at the Trade* Hall). The Bub-committee returned about 6 o'clock, met the sub-committee of the council, and, after some demur, agreed to sign the agreement. COPIES TYPED OUT. The Town Clerk then got copies of the agreement typed out and submitted to the sub-committees aa a whole. After some conversation, the sub-committee of the Strike Committee agreed to sign. "Then, when they had their little talk amongst themselves," continued the Acting-Mayor, "Mr. Young got ap and said he would not sign it. He aaid words had been imported into No. 1 clause which were not there when the sub-committee of the Strike Committee went before the latter. We stated that the agreement was in exactly tho same form. However, they wore not satisfied, and Mr. Young said he would not sign because the words 'at his own request' had been imported into the agreement." A MINUTE PRODUCED. These were the words, Mr. Smith continued, of the actual resolution passed by the council. The question was next raised that there was no guarantee tbat Fuller would not come in contact with the men. "We produced the minute passed by tho council," he added, " and we offered to sign that as a minute of the proceedings oi the council. They were not satisfied with that, and some of the members of the j committee were averse to leaving the I matter without some definite result. Mr. Young then left the room. Our committee was very disappointed, believing that tho whole matter had been Bettleu and that the trams would be running to-day. I will leivve the matter now to Bomo other members of the sub-com-mittee." He added that the agreement was rejected by the men at a meeting in the Concert Chamber of the Town Hall, the use of which had been granted free of charge. Mr. Frost here observod that all the members of the sub-committee should be present. Councillor Fitzgerald thereupon moved, and Councillor Fuller seconded — "That Councillor Frost should be ! deputed to go and find the missing comI mitteeman. [Councillor M'Laren.] Councillor Atkinaon: And I move to add the words, " And that in the meantime we go on." Mr. Smith : I believe they are endeavouring to do something. I don't think t-e absence is intentional. Councillor Frost : Then if that ia 80 an excuse should have been sent. COUNCILLOR FLETCHER, QUOTES , THE MINUTE. Councillor Fletcher said he wo* one of those deputed to try and effect a settlement. The efforts .in this direction appeared to all the members of the committee to have been successful and that a solution of the difficulty had been reached. But to the surprise of all the whole thing had been nullified because of the words "at his own request." As far as he was aware in the negotiations no emphasis had been laid on that paint. The bone of contention appeared to be where Fuller was to be placed. A minute passed by the council in. the afternoon stood "That Inspector Fuller at his own request bo transferred to another branch of the service." Tho Strike Committee wished to have the word "corporation" substituted for "service," but this could not be agreed to. The sub-committee further actually produced a copy of the following minute of the council passed :— "That it be an instruction to the Electrical Engineer to have Fuller placed in a position where he will not have any dealings with the members of the Tramway Employees Union." THE OTHER CONSIDERATION. The words "at his own request" were, not involved and the production of the minute seemed to pave the way to a satisfactory settlement. He personally felt keenly disappointed with the whole thing. In the first instance the union had asked for the "dismissal" of Fuller. Councillor Atkinson : "Removal." Councillor Fletcher added that the council was willing to transfer Fuller, and he repeated that he was extremely sorry that the whole thing had not been fixed up. The sub-committee had asi sured the strikers' representatives that the minute he had referred to would be put into effect. The words, "at his own request," appeared to be an after consideration. "I left the room," ho concluded, "fully believing that the whole matter had been settled." Councillor Shirtcliffe said he was sorry that all the members of the sub-com-mittee were not present. Probably Councillor M'Laren was using some endeavour towards a settlement. The Acting-Mayor said he had recftiri ed a message that Councillor M'Laren would be present in five minutes. ' "THE UTMOST POSSIBLE LENGTH." Councillor Shirtcliffe, after a general introduction, expressed the opinion that the council had done all that it could reasonably bo asked to do in the dircej tion of meeting the men's request. The ! sub-committee had gone the- utmost possible length it coula go within the scope of its instructions. This commitf.ee had had a very arduous day yesterday, meeting tho delegates of tho Strike Committee several times, and, at the request of tho delegates, it waited until 6.20 p.m., in expectation of getting a definite reply. At that* time the delegates arrived, and Mr. Young intimated that, \X&&i S'£iS£tantly t thejr had agreed. fcL

clause 1, and had abandoned the clause relating to indemnification of the strik« ers. "Then we thought," added Councillor Shirtcliffe, "that everything had been arranged. 1 want to make it quite clear that in our minds there was no doubt but that Mr. Young and his colleagues fully understood tho position." INSPECTOR FULLER'S LETTER THE BASIS. The union's demands were passed round, as* was the memo, containing the words, " tho transfer of Inspector Fuller at hiß own request to another branch of the service." That was placed before each and all of tho delegates. The subcommittee was absolutely firm In not going beyond the four corners of Inspector Fuller's letter to us, ! The strike delegates were informed in ! the first instance that it had been deBided absolutely not to do anything that would allow of Inspector Fuller suffering an injustice. Tho only reason for their agreeing to clause (1) was that the in- | spector, on his own motion, had forwarded a letter explaining how difficult it would bo for him to retain Kis position, and placing himself entirely in th% councils hands. KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS. "There was not the slightest reason for supposing that tho strike delegates I did not know what they had been considenng, declared the speaker. "Tho , town clerk (Mr. J. R. Palmer) at onco , procoaded to get the agreement put into type. When the Strike Committee came back at the appointed time, this agreom £ n , t was put before Mr. Reardon, who, | while he did not aay anything, signified his assent by nodding his head." I Councillor Fletcher: At any rate, ho made no protest. OUT OF CONTACT WITH THE MEN. Councillor Shirtcliffe : "Tho agreement was passed along to Mr. Hickoy, who, after reading it, pointed out that a reference to the effect that 'Inspector Fuller was not to come in contact (after transference) with any members of the Tramway Union,' was hot embodied. When it was intimated that such had never been embodied in the resolution 1 of the committee, and that tho subcommittee had no power to put these words in then, Mr. Hickey said he must have misunderstood tho position, and he must apologise. MR. YOUNG'S REFUSAL. "Then, 1 ' continued Councillor Shirtcliffo, "the agreement was passed to i Mr. Young. 'I am not going to eiga this,' he declared." I A councillor: He eaid he did not agree to it. I "We used all tho influence we could ' to try and show them the unreationableness of the attitude they had taken up, at this juncture," said the speaker, "but without avail. It was suggested to them that as the council had passed a resolution instructing the engineer to place Inspector Fuller in some position in the tramway service suited to his undoubted knowledge of tho general work, and where he would not come in contact with any other member of the Tramway Union, they (tho delegates) should reconsider their attitude. We offered to give them a copy of the resolution, and offered further to certify to it." This document was an assurance from the electrical engineer (Mr. S. Richardson) that he would place Fuller m a. position of responsibility where his presence could not affect any member of the union. A PROPER ATTITUDE. This the council thought to be a very, proper solution of the difficulty, because Fuller had special knowledge of tramway matters, which would enable him to serve the corporation with benefit. "But Mr. Young," continued tho speaker, "insisted that, if that was the resolution of the council, why was it not embodied in the agreement? We told him that tho council would not alter its resolution, by putting in a single word. They were absolutely determined on that point. Anyway, the sub-committee had not the power to do what he asked. But we offered to embody a copy of the resolution instructing the Engineer in the agreement. Councillor Shirtcliffe then read the agreement come to in the afternoon. TEXT OF THE AGREEMENT. "Town Hall, " Wellington, 2nd February, 1912. "As the result of the conference be- , tweln the delegates appointed by , tho City Council and the delegates appointed by the Tramway Strike Committee, it has been mutually agreed as hereunder :—: — "1. That Inspector Fuller be transferred at his own request to another branch of the service. "2. That the council guarantee that, on the resumption of work, the men involved in this trouble shall not be subject to victimisation, but shall be reinstated in their employment without loss of status. "Signed on behalf of the conference." [ * "Note.— With regard to clause 1 of i this agreement, the following resolution has been passed by the City Council :— 'That it be an instruction to the ElecJ trical Engineer, on settlement of the j dispute, to have Inspector Fuller placed I in a position where he will not' have any dealings with the members of the Tramways Union.' " I The sub-committee was then informed, added Councillor Shirtcliffe, that the agreement would be subject to ratification by the meeting, although (according to the speaker) they had the assurance of the Strike Committee that they (the committee) were fully empowered to close the pegotiations. "When I asked Mr. Young in regard to this, the latter said they had the power, but they thought it the better policy to submit the whole £hing to the men at thw mass meeting. So they agreed to sign, subject to ratification by the member* of tht> union." Mr. Young would not agroe to anything. Then, aud not till then, he raised the point as to the words "at his own request." Mr. Young considered it would mean a loss of prestige to the union. It was only in the last live minutes of the conference that the last objection and hitch was raised — never before that time. "I felt .so disgusted," declared Councillor Shirtclitte, "that I left immediately. I felt bo ashamed of myself of having spent the whole day with these men, and then to be fooled as the committee- was ia th« end- Thew. 'A only one man responsible for this hitch, and that man (the speaker alleged) is Mr. Young." There was a murmur from, councillors at this stage. STICKING TO HIS GUNS. "Well," replied Councillor Shirtcliffe, "I say that, and I say it deliberately. . . Mr. Young must have fully understood the position, and here he came in at the last moment and backed out. INDIGNANT AT BEING THROWN OVER. "While on my feet," said Councillor Shirtcliffe, "I just want to say that I think some notice should be taken of tho statements that this man has made ■ — during the heat, uo doubt, of this wordy warfare—about what is going on out* side." „ . Once again councillors murmured, deprecating the speaker's touching on thi» phaue of the struggle. Councillor Shirtcfiff^: '/No. I think I had hotter go on. It v time some notice was taken of theso statements. I feel very sorry that the result of our negotiation*, ended as it did. Also, I feel very indignant that Mr. Young- should havethrown us over as> ho did at the very la»t minute without any reason whatever, so far as ] can gather. I would like to point out that Mr. Young stated L .tlwt in .the opiuiott o| bis

executive the insertion of the words in the first clause of the agreement — 'at his own request,' was a distinct I breach of faith. These words, ' a breach of faith,' to my mind fit exactly the action of Mr. Young and his colleagues. There is no use us mincing this matter.'' The raison d'etre for this delegate's action could be found in what Mr. Young said last evening after the meet. 1 ing, viz.. "As to the woids objected to, the council warts to foist upon us what is not in the minute book, and which led; the public to believe that Fuller. is transferred at hi 3 owii request. We want the public to understand that he has been transferred at our request." COUNCIL MUST STAND FIRM. • In ' conclusion, Councillor 'Shirtcliffe said :— " I do hope that this council will not move from this position— that they are transferring Inspector Fuller at his own request." COUNCILLOR M'LA'REN'S STATEMENT HOW T3E ERROR MIGHT HAVE ARISEN. Councillor M'Laren, who arrived when Councillor Shirtcliffe was speaking, ' observed that details of phraseology were very apt to lead people-astray from more sabstantial matters. It had been suggested both on <one side and on the other side there had been a breach of faith, whether intentional or unintentional. Personally, .he . had been endeavouring since yesterday to review the situation carefully for the purpose of seeing whether there might not" have ■been some error in procedure or a matter of first readings or misunderstandings that had given rise to • the present . unfortunate situation. It appeared to' the council's delegates perfectly clear that the matter had been put fully befoi-8 the delegates of tne other side. " This is my remembrance of the procedure," continued the councillor. "When the four delegates' repiesenting the council met the four representatives of the Strike Committee there ~was on the table a typewritten copy of the three clauses of the demands of the Strike Committee. There was also in writing— J. think in the writing of Councillor . Shir tdiffe-^ tho two amendment* adopted by the council." Councillor M'Laren went on to say that the demands were handed to the chairman (Councillor Smith), who read out .clause 1, over which the. difficulty had arisen. Discussion then , commenced on that clause. Very full consideration ■was given to the demand of the "union's representatives that' Inspector Fuller should • be transferred to another 'department altogether, where he would not come into contact with the members of the. Tramway i Union. The question was .discussed fully for some considerable ' time^ when Mr. Young said lie could not accept the > amendment. . There was some further talk over the matter and the foilr delegates of the Strike Committee were left to consult together. They said finally they could not agree to clause one. Mr. "Hickey suggested, the speaker believed, that they should submit the point to the full Strike Committee. The council's representatives concurred. "It was further agreed on onr part," continued Councillor M'Laren, "to submit to the council the proposal to include the word 'corporation's' before service. I afterwards moved it hero in council. This is •where it seemed to mo the error and misunderstanding may have crept in. While this was read by us and repeated by other members there were no copies for any one. They did not take away •with them to the 'full Strike Committee, so far as I could judge, anything in writing. They probably went back with the diseuEslon of the question of Inspector Fuller transferred out of the' department altogether. Probably they went back and presented that as the only thing dealt with in reference to clause 1, and overlooked the matter that had bsen read to them — the words "at his own request." The Acting-Mayor : They took them down ; I saw them. Councillor M'Laren : I did not see them, but it may have been out of this the trouble arose. The councillor went on to trace the further proceedings of the day to the time of the meeting in the evening, when Mr. Young said they reluctantly agreed to the terms, but we , all considered it was a matter of congratulation that a settlement was 4 &t hand. It was 'somewhat of a surpris* to me when the Town Clerk brought up the typewritten copies in the form of an agreement, and Mr. Young read clause 1. He said they understood Fuller was to be transferred to some other branch of fche service, where hs would not come into contact with members of the Tramways Unipn. That should be in clause 1. After some discussion Mr. Young raised the further point that he had not understood the words "at his own re--cjuest" should be in. These were not in what' they had submitted to the Strike Committee. Tho main contention was they had understood the clause should,, contain with regard to Fuller, " where he would not come into contact with the Tramways Union." Mr. Young contended it placed him in an entirely false position with his committee. He would now be called on to present something to the full meeting of members in the Concert Chamber that had not been before his own committee. He also mentioned his objection to the inclusion of the words, "at his own request." He did not seem, however, to make a very strong point of that, and it was not discussed much. Councillor M'Laren added that the Strike delegates were informed that the sub-committee ' had no power to alter a resolution of tHo council. They were, only given authority , to settle on the basis of that resolution, which was on the minute books of tha council. He contended Hhat other resolutions were also on the minute books, and so there was no reason v/hy this should not be attached to the memorandum of agreement made between the parties. He contended it would- be at least something of an interpretation of clause 1. That was how the whole thing transpired. On the ether hand, the union's delegates held that th-3 matter should be embodied in clause 1 as a specific part of the agreement. j BREACH OF FAITH OR MISUNDERSTANDING ? COUNCILLOR ATKINSON'S VIEWS. Councillor Atkinson, as the last of tho members of tho sub-committee to speak, was brief, confining himself entirely -to the single point upon which the negotiations broke down, the point being the words, "at his own request," " Mr. Young sat with a typewritten sheet in front of him," said the councillor. "AfteT ho read out clause 1 the chairman read out our clause 1 as alternative. Mr. Young noted down between the lines or on the margin as to alternative variations. The resolu- j tion was read out and the paper containing it was passed to the other end of Ihe table, where Mr. Young sat. Not a word was challenged; there ■was no dissent or criticism of any kind raided by Mr. Younjj on that point. Ihe- important point is as to whether he was guilty of a breach of faith' or' of a misunderstanding, j The representative of one party listens to the reading of the other party's claims, and -makes his notes on his own paper. Full discussion takes place. Is j one or is off! not entitled to presume j iull knowledge on hie, part that ihe party be xepresents understands the other 'party's position? The repfetenta-

tives of the Strike Committee came back . with power to give a complete answer 'to our claims. Is it not a reflection to suppose that the Strike Committee did not have the curiosity to enquire what the full terms' of the other side were, and the full details of what wo said to their representatives in conference? It is either an absolutely incredible blun- . der' on the part of the chpirman and spokesman of the Strike Committee or it is something worse. It is quite sufficient), from our point of view, to -take | a more favourable interpretation. But whether it was an oversight or an afterthought, the mistake was on the part of the Strike Committee." Councillor Atkinson concluded with the remark that he did not know what chance there was of further negotia1 tionk being carried on with success, but he felt quite sure there would be no success if they were carried on in the same unbusinesslike manner as the last. STRIKE COMMITTEE BACK. At this stage the Acting-Mayor rose, and announced that members of the Strike Committee had arrived and wished to announce the- result of last night's meeting. Councillor Shirtcliffe : Let them etato it in writing. ' Councillor" M'Baren : There is nothing to be gained by refusing to meet them. I think we snould meet them. ► Councillor Fletcher : I think, as one of the committee, we should meet them courteously and hear what they have to say, even if it is only in an informal way. I do not know if ifc will be any use, and it may not be any good, but jt would be discourtesy on the part of the council not to hear them. Councillor Fuller said he thought it should be an instruction to the committee that they should tell the strikers' representatives that the council was going to stand firm. On the motion of Councillor M'Renale, the council went into committee. . The representatives of the strikers were then received by the sub-commit-tee. Subsequently the council's delegates reported to the council, which was still in committee.