AGAINST UNIONISM.

Evening Post, Volume LXXXII, Issue 50, 28 August 1911, Page 7

AGAINST UNIONISM.

WAREHOUSE CLERKS' IN PROTEST. DEPUTATION TO MINISTER Off LABOUR. POLITICIANS fTAKE A HAND. About a hundred clerical assistant* m four more or less allied branches of trad© waited on tfie Minister of Labour to-day to protest against their being included in the Union of Merchants' Asiistante, •which, has been so much in th© public eye of late, and to suggest that they should ba given the power, through an amendment of the Industrial Arbitration and Conciliation Act, of jsakjing ench protest officially before the court, The depute tion was introduced by Mr. A, L. Herd man, and the Messrs. R, A. Wright, J. P. Luke, and D. M'Laren, M.P.'s, were also present. After the principal spokesman of the deputation, had stated his case, the proceedings resolved them' wives into an argument between some of the members present and the Minister on ( the Arbitration Act in general and unionism in particular. Mr. A. L. Berdman, M.P., «aid that the deputation represented between three ahd four hundred clerical asaißtante engaged in the city. The carters, he said, were primarily responsible for the formation of the new uhion, and the clerks objected to being irieludcd in it, but it was impossible for them to object in the way they desired «« the law stood at the present time. The result was that cm coon, as an award w«« made or an agreement arrived at, all the clerke which cam© within its <>cope Were bound by the provisions. These men wanted the statutory right to object to being included in any award ; they wanted to keep outeide the rmion altogether. Their present relationship with their employers was exceedingly amicable, and they got along in complete harmony. If unionism wae fotced on them they felt that many of the privileges which they now enjoyed Would be disturbed. What the effect of this would be on the general trade of the city Would be difficult to forecast. THE CHIEF SPOKESMAN. Captain Hall (Levin and Co.)' recounted the steps which had been taken leading up to the formation of" the nnion. He read the resolutions passed at a. meeting of clerical assistants in foot trades (already reported), end said he thought the light suggested by Mr. Herdman should be included in any amending Bill. The union in question attempted to include the employees in & very laige variety of tt ades, and there would necessarily be a great deal of friction in any nnion with Bitch a, wide scope. There was no objection to the formation of a nnion, but there wae a great difference between manual labour in a warehouse and clerical assistance. Tho deputation was not fighting unionism a* a principle. The Minister •. t have received information that the clerical departments are going to be struck out of the scope of the union. Mr. Luke said that the Becretaty of the union (Mr. Farland) had told him that he was not going on with his intention to include th« clerks. Captain Halt said he understood that this wae so. The decision showed Rome «vkieno& of judgment and sense. It only showed that tho deputation Imd some justification for the statements made. The Minister remarked that tho power a*bed for wa* provided in th& Act as it stood. Any section of employees had the right to come before th* Court and {ask to b» exempted. Mr. Berdrnan: Stinpose they drn't belong to a union? After an Award is made men will be bound by its provisions, He explained again that there was doubt as to the powers of any laig ewctiof.. of employees to do sb suggested, and they wished to have the statutory right. FRBtfflOM OF ACTION, The Minister quoted "a hypothetical case, and asked what would be the nosi' tior, in ft trade where 300 wished to form A nnion and 700 were opposed to the proposal. They had to deal with. prrnciplcß in a matter like this. Any oentfit. obte.m«d by a, un:onidt would be shared by a non-unionist. Supposing a clerk's wages were increased from £1 10ft td JJ2 10s : Was there anyone in the room who would not take the extra. JB1? The principle they had to guard was frefctlom for men to join a union «>r to keep out of it. Ca.pta.in 1 R&U said the deputation wanted eqtu'tv for a large body of men. Mr, D. M'Lft-ren here Interpolated that what the deputation was asking for wa« ftft Abrogation of one of the principles pi the \d itself, if the recog« nition of indivicWie was A«J*gteiL Mr. Herdma-n- : But y#u rec»gnise individual firms. Captain Hall repeated that the deputation had no nnattel with principles. Mr. W. H. W&rrai also spoke, and said the clerkai assistants desired .to be allowed to go along in peace. He de. flired to emphasis the almost universal harmony and goodwill existing between employer and employee in iho callings in which those present were engaged. IN OTHER PLACES. Mr. ID, M'Laren, M.P., briefly ad» dressed the Minister, and pointed out what was done in five federated Stetet of Australia, where classification in allied trades had been carried out. He had been informed by the ofRceTS of tho union that it was necessary to go further in organisation, so that each bra&ch of employees should have the control of tbeir own affairs. He ventured to ea^ that the whole question rested with the court. The court- decided who W6s to be bound by; an award. There was a dis* position in Labour circles to draw out from the Act, and he did not want, to see what was going on in the Old Country rejyoduced in New Zealand. Mr. J. P. Ltike, M.P,, delivered a speech, m which he condemned the bringing down of every man lo one common level. The industrial and th© clerical side of life could not be interwoven iihder the Act. He wanted to do all he oOuld to improve the conditions of the clerical assistant*— they needed improve- J ment— but the Minister should have the ■whole position of the Act reviewed, THE MINISTER IN REPLY. Mr. Millar stated that he personally had nothing to do with the formation of the Uhion. The Act passed in 1894 was designated "an Act for ♦,he encour* agement of the formation of industrial unions," and anyone who knew the position into which labour had got at that time would say that it was high time to cope with what had been going on. He believed that the worker had aft much fight to combine his capital as the rapitali&t hinwlf: -and tho worker's labour was his capital. A prorejfr of evolution was going on. Tltp individual employers were being crcnvded out by lafge rotnpnnics nhtl they in tinw* would be absorbed by syndicates. He quit* agreed with lhe definition that the clerical branch should lm apart from the manual worker*. At tho nn«p titnft some clerical workers had spoken to him outside of conditions *hich he could only my hf> wottlrt not be- etvUsfiert with. At the present time the' deputation had the right to go before the twm and a«k to be exempted (torn the provisions ! of ah award. •- *- ,

Mr. Herdman i If they a-re not ir« » union? Mr. Millar : lam not a lawyer but, I know of ho Act of Parliament which applies to one section only. Ar far as tins union !»_ concerned I am informed that your griev&ncG lias gone becAuee you are going to be struck out. fcut 1 *ay that if one-tenth of what Mr. Farland saad is correct it ie high time Uiat a union was formed bo that the whole position can be reviewed by the court and the public made aware "of th« conditions and tho wag«B paid. He went on to cay that he was glad the deputation's grievance wa* to b« right-ed, bfrt h& wi»h«d to say that he was not going to weaken, the power of any rection of men to form a union.. Tho»a who WKeved in unionism had the right to enjoy it an<| fch&se who yn>t* opposed to it had ihm Tight to stop out. Ho would not put into any Rt*.tut& & power which would prevent unionism., BENEFITS OF INDUSTRIAL LAWS He thought Mr, Luke's suggestion wae faiafv good, but figures ehowed the benefit oi industrial legislation. Thtre was no philanthropy, A man did hot pub his capital into business unless he got something for it. There were only thre« trades in the Dominion which did not show progress. All over the world there wa« a measure of unrest, A member of the deputation saidther* appeared to be a difference of opiniott as to the powers given by the Act for any section of employees to object to being included <n the scope tf an award, Would lh& Minister? he a-sked, lock tato the matter, and if the power whs not ther& see that it wag given by amending the statute? The Minister said he would look into the matter, but he would promise nothing until he saw what the result was going to be. "You tWt catch me> like that, ( he added. "I give you my own opinion Ihttt the power jb there. M tiny rate you won't require to object, because you will be struck out." But he again made it clear that "he would tlo nothing to break u,p unionism, 11 I After a conversational discussion, the Minister promhfcu to let the deputation know when he received official notice that, the clerical, division was struck out of the jurisdiction of the new union,