FOR REFORM.

Evening Post, Volume LXXVII, Issue 137, 11 June 1909, Page 8

FOR REFORM.

THE PUBLIC SERVICE. MR. HEftDMAN INTRODUCES A BILL. DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT. In the Houpe of Representatives this morning, Mr. Herdman moved the first reading of the Public Service Bill, which provides for the setting up of a Public Service Board for the control of the service. In doing so he urged the necessity of placing the service on a sure and sound foundation. Mr. Laurenson asked if Mr. Herdman was in order in making a speech at that stage of the Bill. Mr. Speaker ruled that Mr. Herdman was quite in order. The Prime Minister remarked that tho course now beiiiß pursued was very unusual. He could not understand the motive. MR. HERDMAN 'S REASONS. Mr. Herdman said he would not have taken that course if it had not been for the extraordinary action of the Government in connection with the service, but the circumstances were so extraordinary that he felt bound to discuss the subject. During tho last ten years the service had grown to enormous dimensions owing to the fact that departments had been "stuffed" with men unable to perform their duties, and it was necessary now to pass legislation which v.-ould prevent the possibility of political appointments. His proposal was to put the service under the control of a board appointed by Parliament and on ;t similar footing to Supreme Court Judges. That would do away with the vicious system of public servants being appointed by Ministers of the Crown. The present action of the Government was an admission that the Government had been spending .8250,000 a year of the people's money in excess of the real requirements of the Public Service. The present state of things should never nave been possible, and would not have been if the Government had done its duty. Mr. Waddell, of the New South Wales Government, had, in answer to a question rut by him (Mr. Herdman), written, saying that the Public Service Board worked very satisfactorily, and he did not think that the people would ever think of going back to the former state of political control. He had, perhaps, departed from the usual custom, but his desire 'was to bring about >a state of things which would put the Public Service on a proper sound business footing, instead of being a huge charitable institution. He brought the Bill forward in the interests of public servants themselves, many of whom had been unjustly treated. THE PRIME MINISTER. The Premier said that the hon. gentieman had not explained in his speech how he proposed to place the service in the control of an .autocracy. The Government had announced its intention of reducing the expenditure of the Public Service by £250.000. He had believed that' the hon gentleman and the organ advocating sweeping retrench- ; ment hac 1 been sincere in their desire, and now, at the veiy first opportunity, an attempt was made to defer, any attempt to retrench. Since the Government had made its announcement Ministers of the Crown had received applications from members of the Opposition, including the Leader, for billets, and yet the Opposition was seeking to make political capital out of the need for retrenchment and the mode of appointments to the Civil Service. Referring to the working of the Public Service Board in New South Wales, Sir Joseph stated that its establishment had broken down the pensions system there. A member : Question. The Prime Minister : Who says "Question" ? Mr. J. Allen : I do. The Prime Minister : That only con,firms me in my opinion that it was so. He continued that the Government ought to b~e~ applauded by any rightthinking persons for the course it,proposed to take. Public expenditure in many directions would not require to be continued on the scale at which it had hitherto been going on, and it followed that the cost of administration by the Public Service could be correspondingly reduced. Taking the PubKc Health Department as one instance where retrenchment could ,be introduced, Sir Joseph said that when first established it had to break virgin ground, whereas now conditions had been greatly improved. "GOVERNMENT WILL DO ITS DUTY." He had noticed that those who had formerly urged the necessity of retrenchment were now using that retrenchment for political purposes. He> had noticed a desire to create a veneered sympathy for dismissed Public servants, but he declared that the Government would do its duty in this matter of retrenchment, and carry out the scheme fairly in the interests of the country as a whole. Statements that were being made as to tho financial position of the Dominion all emanated from one source, and the gravest injustice was being done to New Zealand. It was suggested that New Zealand was practically bankrupt. That was not the cose. In fact, during tho past year, whioh had been one of financial' trouble, not a single hitch had occurred in New Zealand's financial arrangements, although the arrangements 4hat had to be made were of a very heavy character. The Government, he urged, ought to receive recognition of the fact that it was performing a painful duty, and political capital ought not to bo made out of it. OPPOSITION LEADER. Mr. JVlassey said he had heard the Prime (Minister's speech with regret, for it was an unfair, an improper speech, and not worthy of the hon. gentleman, and would do harm lo the Government Party. The Opposition members had 'been particularly careful in all they said to avoid damaging the ctedit x of the. country. Ministers of the Crown were really more responsible- for injuring our credit, as witness Mr. Hogg's recent advocacy of paper-money. The Prime Minister's own proposal to reduce expenditure in the Public Service by £250,000 was in itself calculated hi damage our credit. In defending Mr. Herdman's Bill and speech in introducing it, 'Mr. Maseey endorsed 'Mr. Herdman's opinions, saying that the present system was bad, corrupt, and extiavagant. He had be"en twitted by the Prime Minister with having approached Ministers on behalf of applicants for employment in Government Departments. "I admit, it," said Mr. Massoy. "T represent 12,000 people in this country, (Mid I am going to do my duty to them. As long as the present system obtains, I am going to take advantage of it ; but I s>ay it is a bad system. I don't believo in it a bit." Dealing with the railways, Mr. Massey said that he buliuved thoy would pay if freed from political management, or rather from political interference with the management. (Hear, hear). He would recommend anyone to read the evidence of 'Mr. Jackson, given before the Addington. Commission of Enquiry, to see the extent to which political interference with the management of the railways had grown.

FORCE OF CIRCUMSTANCES. Mr. Fisher said that force of circumstances had compelled Ministers to bring about a retrenchment that should have taken place long ago. He did not disagree with the Government's action, but he had always disagreed with the condition of things that had existed for the past few years. The number of Civil servants had increased from 9292 in 1898 to 17,584 in 1908, and the cost of the service had increased from £786,000 in 1898 to £1,551,000 in 1908. As to the Bill, he declared that the tendency of the existing system had been to take power away from the people, and place it in the hands of one man. The present indications were that that system would bie more pronounced in the future than in the past. He expressed the view tbat public opinion supported the Government in its action in regard to the Phiblic Service. BILL SHOULD BE WELCOMED. Mr. R. A. Wright thought that the Premier should . welcome the Bill so as to relieve .him from the worry of having to fimi billets for individuals and thus leave ,him more time for his administrative and Parliamentary duties. The time would come, if the Government went on increasing its activities, when the Government would control a majority of the 1 electors, and the majority of electors would in turn control the House. As to the retrenchment scheme, the Premier might not be altogether responsible ior the condition of affairs, but the fact remained that hundreds of raen had been appointed because of their political colour. The present Prime Minister had como into an unfortunate legacy, and if he carried on£ the task justly and fairly he would get no opposition from members sitting on that side of the House. He hoped that in carrying out that unpleasant task no retrenchment would be made on account of political or religious views. (Hear, lieai.) He denied that Wellington members had any undue desire for expenditure of public moneys in the city. As to the railways he said there was a great deal of dissatisfaction, even among the employees on the railways — in fact, the amount of dissatisfaction was greater even thau when the railways were managed by Commissioners. The Prime Minister, replying to a remark by Mr. Wright, said that he would not accept applications for employment while thu retrenchment scheme was being carried out. ANOTHER WELLINGTON MEMBER. Mr. D. M'Laren said that whether positions in the Public Service were tilled by political influence or by social or class influence did not matter. When recently in Australia he found that there ■under Public Service Boards influence was as rife as ever. • What was wanted was the building up of a sound character amongst our public men. Since he was elected he had been besieged by individuals asking for the exercise of influence. In this respect he would always act honestly, and if that did not suit those who had votes could take them to a place where their clothes were always well aired. (Laughter.) He did not propose to discuss the Bill until he saw its provisions in black and white, but he declared that Public Service Boards had brought "in new dangers where they were established — they introduced\ class control. "WELLINGTON CIVIL SERVICE." The Hon. T. Y. Duncan said that if the mover had his way the Civil Service would be. a Wellington Civil Service. MR. HERDMAN IN REPLY. In reply, Mr. Herdman said it was difficult to extract the true meaning of the remarks of the last speaker. He declared that if a Civil Service Board we,re appointed patronage would be eliminated. Despite what had been said, patronage was not rife in Victoria and JN T ew South Wale's. It appeared to him that the Prime Mlinister could not conceive that anyone had a genuine desire to reform the Public Service. If the affairs of the country had been properly administered the need for retrenchment would' never have arisen. He believed that his position was so sound that he felt sure that in the next three years he would receive the support of the Prime Minister. ( READ A FIRST TIME. ' The Bill was read a first time on the voices, and amid laughter, the second reading was set down ior "tliis day fortnight."