AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. TUESDAY, JANUARY 5th, 1863.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XX, Issue 2021, 7 January 1864, Page 3

AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. TUESDAY, JANUARY sth, 1863.

The Speaker took the chair at 3 o'olook. | stokes' point wiiarf. Mr. Cabman piesented two petitions from residents on the North Shoie, calling attention to the state of the wharf at Stokes' Point. Petition lead and received.

PRIVATE PETITIONS, Mr. VVynn biought up a leport from the Standing Orders Committee, recommending an alteration in the Standing Outers, to the effect that no petition shall be lef erred to the Prhate Grievance Committee more than sixteen sitting days from the commencement of the session. llepoit read.

HAIIiWAY BILL. Mr. Wynn brought up the lepoit of the Select Committee on the Railway Appropriation Bill, recommending that the bill as amended by the committee should pass. The report having been lead, its consideration was made an order of the day foi Thursday.

TKUNK KOAD. Mr. Ball asked the lion, member at the head of the E\eoufcive, " What progress has been made in the opening ti link loads in the Noith, and whether the piovmcial or other competent suiveyorhas had general supeiviBion of the woiks " JMr. Dald\ could not tell the lion, member what piogress had been made in the various localities, but works were bung earned on ; and as far as the Kaipara district, and towards Auckland, wa.s concerned, the Piovincial Surveyor had rendered eveiy apsistance in Ins power in determining the line of way most desirable to be cut ; and in the other districts where siuveylng wns required, the gentleman employed to negotiate with the natives for the puiclmse of land had been empowered to act.

NHW GOVERNJfENI HOUSE. Mr. oadman0 adm an asked the Piovincial Secretary when it is the intention of the Piovincial Government to take the necessary steps towards building the new Government House in the Domain. Mr. DALDYaauI the Geneial Government had taken the building of the house into their own hands ; but they had no desue m that, any more than in other public buildings under their control, to take all the lesponsibility upon themsehes, and he might say that the arrangements weie n>t yet completed. But it was contemplated that cen 'in members of the two governments should be associated in a commission to be formed by the Governor of the colony, to carry out the works as quickly as possible. As soon as the ariangements were made no time would bo lost.

SUPERINTENDENT OP PRISONS. Mr. .T. O'Neill asked the Piovincial Secietary, " What aie tUetl«t\esof tlie Supenutendent of Piisous?" Ho wished, he said, as tins wns a new item in the estimates, to know what weie the duties o£ this ofiicei In his official visits to the gaols he had never seen such an officer, and the Council should consider whether they would \ote this money for an officei who was not necessary, and w as never seen in the pnsons (so fai as his experience went). Mr. Daddy said ho would endeavour simply to answer the question categoiically, as when the items came on in the estimates lion, members would have a full oppoitunity of discussing it The duty of the officer in question was the general supei vision of everything connected with the gaols. The object of the Government in appointing biich an ofhcei was thai there should be a itfoimition in the government of these gaols, more especially in the way of making the laboui of the piisoneis moie leproductive. His duties weie to see that the jmsoneis were piopeily tieated and cleanty, &c ; and eveiything of that nature connected with such an institution was undei his supervision but not hitheito under his contiol ; Mid the Government intended to bnug down an act giving the supenutendent of piisoneis power to cany out the views and inteutions of the Government; and if lion membeis looked into the lepoit of that office! laid on the table, they would see a vanety of lnfoimation relative to pnsons in othei countnes. The Government h.ul been disappointed in the object they had m view in the appointment of that officer, he, as well as many othei «, having been taken away from his duties by the cncumstances in which the countiy had been placed , and a seveie accident had kept him fioni his duties during the last two or thiee months. He (Mi. D ) believed such an office was necessaiy, aud that gieat nnpiovements might and would be made m our pi ison establishments. Difficulties had been laised in the past twelve months,, which the Govemmun now saw their way to oveicome.

"UK. SFCCOMBE. Mi. Fo[/c\ asked the hon membei at the head of the executive, "If it is the intention of the Government to send down to tins Council all couespondeuce between the Provincial Government and Mr. Seccombe legaiilnifj the amount of money paid him for stones taken fiomhis piopeity on the Kybei Pasa Road." Mr. DALin said he was informed that the message lelative to this coirespondence had been mislaid The coiiespondence would be laid on the table on Wednesday.

I'URCH^'hR or BOOKS. Mi J. O'Nlill moved " That the Libraiy Cornmifctoe have liberty to oulei books not exceeding the amount placed on the estimates, as if that sum had been ah eady voted." Mr. Dalby did not think the case of the libraiy was so pressing, and suggested that only half the amount should be taken at once, as the revenue only came in fiom month to month. The woid "half" having been inserted after "exceeding," the motion was agieed to. GBAVHAU &OHOOL. Dr. Polling in moving " That a lespectful address be piesented to his honoi the Supeiintendent, requesting that he will lay before this Council a statement of the condition af the Auckland Grammar School Tiust on the 31st Decembei ultimo," said his object was to diaw the attention of the Government and the Council to this mattei, and lefeued to the proposals made by the late Superintendent with refeience to it, in pursuance of which a select committee had been appointed two yeais ago, which obtained a great deal of valuable information ; but at piesent the labours of the committee had pioduced no other fruit. He did not know whether the Government would offer the same excuse as they had done for then neglect of every othei duty committed to their chaige ; but it was one he (Dr. Pollen) would not like to m ge,— that he had been engaged, \n the solution of the native difficulty with a stiong hand, instead of attendintj to the education of the rising generation of the town of Auckland. It was the duty of the Pi ovincial Government to have made a profitable use of the information he hail lef erred to, but this they had neglected to do He thought the Council, knowing the funds they had, and the secunty of them, might better at once make use of them, ;nstead of waiting till the funds accumulated sufficiently for a more ambitious attempt. If the means were not sufficient Vb lay the foundation of a college, at all svents a public lectureship might be established on physics, natural philosophy, chemistry, particularly as applied to agriculture, &c. This was one course which might be taken. When the returns came down, he would take finther steps,, and hoped the Council would see the advisability of not letting the matter pass. ' Mr. I) AtiDY had no excuse to offer for the Government in this matter. He remembered that there was a great diffeience of opinion on this subject, and did not think the repoit had been carried by a majority of the Council' Ho thanked the lion, member, however, for bridging it forward, but not for his censure on the Government for not doing so, as no one had better | opportunities to stu in the matter than the hon. member himself. It was not, however, one of those matters which the Government were bound to bring down i propositions to the Council upon. He would be very happy to supply the information required, and would stay for the present the proceedings, pc had referred to on Monday for putting out the fund on loan, till the Council should decide upon it. Mr. J. O'Neill thought » giammar school should be at once established under two masters of high attainments ; and believed there was also sufficient money to pay one professor, as a nucleus of * higher kind of educational establishment. He hoped the Government would now turn their attention to it. The mover having briefly replied, the motion was agieed to. PUBLICATION 07 THK " GAZETTE. " Dr. Pollen moved, "That in the opinion of this Council any payments made by his honor the Superintendent for the repubhcation of the Provincial Government Gazette, by way of advertisement in any public journal, ought not to be made a oharge upon the public revenue." He thought this proceeding was wholly unnecessary and exceedingly axpensive, costing jn fact, sometimes twice as much as the original printing of the Quzetlc itself. His private opinion wai, that the money was paid ai the price of political support, not by special agieement, but by a kind of understanding. The question, however, which he brought before the Council now was a purely financial one ; whether it was worth the while of the Council to continue (in expenditure which was growing exceedingly large, without any corresponding advantage. Every one must see that the expenses of tl\o establishment, interest of loans, &c, were fast bringing the colony into a state of financial embamißiraent ; and he thought the Council should discontinue all expenses not absolutely necessary. He knew the hon. gentleman liked, to have his hand on the public prens, hut did not we t&»t % Putofo ih.oujcl bear fto cv

■ pense of giving him that pleaiiuie. He thought the Council should diicountenance this expense altogether, and having provided an official means of circulating information should do no more. Mr. Daley said the hon. member had taken great pains to conceal his real object — to make the Superintendent a perfect stalking hone. After the transactions which the late Superintendent were engaged in, one would think that he, would hare been the last person to have tabled a motion of this character. Wm the Superintendent of this province to be trusted to incur an expense like this if he thought it necessary, or was he not 1 No honorable gentleman could hold the position of Superintendent if he were to be thui bound down, and acts that he thought might be necessary for the conduct of the Government reversed on motions of this kind. Notwithstanding all the haziness with which the hon. member had tried to envelope the matter, it was a simple and straightforward transaction. The Government found from experience a» a govern ment that a considerable amount of information was wanting amongst the people which they did not derive from the Government Gazette ; and in consequence of a certain paper in this place having much diminished in eh dilution the people were ignorant of a great many matteis relative to public works, &ci TheJSoverninent, therefore, thought it desirable to give them this iuformation (not instigated by the piess), and to republish certain portions of the Gazette which were of geneialinteiest — not the whole of it. But the"" hon. member had chosen to insinuate that it had been done for other purposes. The hon. member might know the value o£ the press. He (Mi. D.) had not the slightest doubt of that, because it was necessary that some institutions should be supported by the claptrap of the piess, and by its abuse ; but he was happy to say that the present Provincial Government stood pertectly independent of any pait of the press of this country. They were happy to learn from the piess, far fiom despising it, but perfectly indepenoent of what it said or did. With regard to othei remarks of the hon. member, he would tell him that he was not in the habit of publishing through the public piess his views and sentiments under a fictitious name. Whatever lie had thought proper to communicate had had his signature to it. As to praise leceived fiom the press, if it were put in one scale and the blame in the other, the former would soon kick the beam. He esteemed the press as a great organ of inlbiuiing and educating the people of the country, but never looked upon it as a friend to be held fast or an enemy to be conciliated or punished. The hon. member had stated that this work was as the price of political suppoit. This was a gross insult to the Government, and he utterly denied it* truth Never had the present Provincial Government sought the support of any journal in this place. The hon. member had asked to day in the Council one of the most extiaordmaiy things ever asked of a Council, viz., to refuse their sanction to the payment of money which had been voted by the Council, and which the Auditor of the province had passed his wanant for ; asked them to bieak through a law, and that, after this money had been legally expended, they should not admit the accounts, the piincipal part of which had been audited and parsed by a committee of the House. Had the motion said the expenditure was a useless one, and ought to be discontinued forthwith, it would have been different ; but he felt confident the Council would never commit" itself to such a motion as this, as it now stood. He did not understand how the hon. member meant the expense was increasing. Probably lie had been told, as he (Mr. D ; had also heaid, |t)iat another journal was publishing the Gazette. If so, it was not doing it at the Government expense. It was a question with the Government, seeing the mci easing cii dilation of newspapers iv thin place, whether this expense should be continued or not; but it was a matter that must be left to the judgment of the Government. Mr. J. O'Neill suggested the insertion after the woid " journal" of the words •' foi the futuie." He thought theie were many things which the Superintendent should have, — the power of advei Using, and selecting the papei in which he would adveitise. He did not think it would be light to make the motion retiospcctive. Di. Pollen wished the houf>e to express its opinion on the geueial question, and would not object to amendments beiug made. Mi. Lynch would object to bind down the Governineut in the way pioposed, or to lemove or punish them for what had been done for the good of the public sei vice. If any of the expenditure could be pioved to beextiavagant and unwaiiantable, no doubt the Superintendent should be biought to book for it, und diiected to discontinue it for the future. Mi. Fole\ said theie weie a gieat many people who only saw one of the three papers, and he thought the woik should be let out by public competition. (Hear, hear ) Mr. King thou«lit the hon movei's connection with a papei which had vilihed more than any othei s the membeis of this Council should have kept him quiet. The piactice impugned by him was one adopted in the othei provinces and in the neighbouiing colonies, and the hon member had noc shown that it was extiavagant, though he had taken up so much of the time of the Council upon" it. The people in the outsettlements wete quite ignoiant of the measures passed by this Council aud the acts of the Government. They never saw the Gazette, and he did not think money spent in giving the people information wns badly laid out. He thought the movei should withdraw the motion. Mr. Ball thought it ajviaable to give some things tbegieale&t publicity, and therefore one journal should not be selected fiom the foui. Either all should have a little, or it should be put up to public competition, in ordei to give the gieatest publicity at the smallest expense. ' Mr. Gallaugeer agreed with Mr. Ball's remaiki. Mr. May said the Government had selected the Southern Cross as having the largest circulation. No doubt a journal struggling into interest would give in lower tendeis than established ones, but that would defeat the object which the Government had in view. Mr. SiiRi'HAN thought the othei journals should have the same chance as the Cuo^b. Mr. George made some remarks on the conduct of the mover. Dr. Pollen expressed his surprise at the opinions expressed by the Provincial Treasurer on the relations between the Supeimtendent and Council, so contraiy to the views fonuerly expressed by him. The Government had the privilege of publishing special reports in the papers and he did uot object to it, but he objected to publishing.a Gazette, and then repubhshingit in the newspapers, for if the latter were to be done, the Gazette might be abolished and the expense saved. His only object was to protect the public funds. He pronounced this expenditure an abuse, and left the matter in the hands of the Council. Motion put and negatived on the voices.

AUCKLAND LOAN ACT ACCOUNT. Dr. Pollen inoyed, ' 'That *n addresi be presented to his honor the Superintendent, requesting that he would lay before this Council a statement of the Auckland Loan Act Account on the 31st Deoember, ult." It had been publicly stated he said, that £100,000 of debentures had been taken up under this Act, and tha.t six month's interest was due on them when sold. The agreement with the bank for the purchase of these debentures was made on July Bth. £100,000 worth was to be issued at ouce, and that amount was sold, but he was informed that so busy had the Government been in solving the native difficulty, that the papers were not yet signed and deposited with the bank. By the Loan Act, interest was to be paid from the time of signature, and he wanted to know how half-a-year's interest could have accrued upon them, and who was going to pay it ? He had been told by the Provmoial Treasurer yesterday that the buyers paid it. Either the Provincial Treasurer d}d not \\nderstand the transaction himI self or could not make himself understood. He hoped that the return lie had asked for would make it plain. He believed there had been gross mismanagement connected with the business throughout. Mr. Dalby said there would be no objection to finishing the return, and when sent down he would give every explanation he could, if the hon. member would favour him in writing }with the points on which he desired information. Mr, Haerop thought it was plaiu that interest must be payable by somebody from the date of the debentuies, which in every case was the Ist of April, he believed, though the debentures were issued at different times, and some not taken up yet. Motion agreed to.

AUCKLAND TO THE WADE. Mr. A. O'Neili, moved, "That an address be presented to his honor the Superintendent, requeuing him to place on the supplementary estimates £100 to open up the direct road from the W»de district to Auckland by the college at the North Shore. Mr. Shekhan supported the motion as one of great necessity. Mr. May approved of the object, but -would rather see the motion stand over till the Council was in committee on the estimates, as there would be a great many of these motions, and they might as well be together. „«.,. Mr. FoLEY supported the motion, remarking that money would have to be found for similar works in a gieat many districts, if they were not to be shut up altogether. Mr. Swanson supported the motion. Mr. Daldy requested the hon. member to amend his motion so as to read, "£lOO for the use of the Okw» district,"

Mr. A. O'Neill made a further explanation of th* road referred to. Mr. DaliJy then said he woidd be Tety nappy id see the "motion passed. - '- '_^'■" •_ - ' Mr. CADNtAK having made some remarks "ott'tlle proposal of Mr. May, . ' The motion was put and agreed to. - - , .<

j 01TT BOARD LOAN ACT. Mr. Wynn moved the adoption of the report, of the Select Committee on the City Board Loan Act 1863, Amendment Bill. The committee considered the security .offered by the Board sufficient, and recommended that the bill be passed. He thought this met the only objection which had been raised, and did not nee on what grounds the Council could refuse to entrust the City Board with this money. Either they must trust the Board us properly repre' senting the city, or repeal the' Board Act altogether. They did not hear in any way, by petition, or pnblitf meeting, or the press, that* the Board had not the confidence ofi. the people, but they had every reason to suppose it had. He had no doubt that the Board had a certain income of £10,000 upon which banks would be quite' ready to lend them £20,000, but the object of thiii bill was to let them have it on easier terms. Mr, Carman said the Council would be bound to make good any deficiencies incurred by the Board, and therefore it was their duty to satisfy themselves as to the works on which the Board proposed to expend the raoaey % He doubted very much if the citizens had .30 much confidence in the Board ai had been said. The fact was that the citizens had no opportunity of testing it till next June twelve mouths. Till then the Board could set the people at defiance. He had been abused for saying the City Board made blunders. He would mention oue of their last blunders. While the Government were increasing the constabulary force, the Board weie imparing its efficiency by depriving the city of light, having determined to enter into no contract for lighting during the summer months. Then a member of the Board had told the committee that a majority of the Board were in favour of postponing the erection of the market house, which had been so long determined on, and was so much needed. The amount at disposal on the provincial estimates was only about £13,000, while here was a City Board without plans of any kiud, asking the power to raise nearly £30,000. The cry that the Board were without funds had no meaning. A ninepenny rate he was certain would raise £6,000, which would give the Board altogether £10,000 to spend between now and the next meeting of the Council; and how cpuld they sipend more without any levels being fixed for the streets ? The total amount of the loan available for the city being only £50.000, the Board ~* should not be allowed to take £20,000 to spend in mere repairs. They had far better spend the £2,000 which the interest on the sinking fund would amount to, in repairs, and wait .till they were in a position to spend the larger sum properly. He should vote for the rejection of the report. Mr. Folkv would also oppose the report and the bill. The Council could not be expected to vote £20,000, and tax the inhabitants of the city, without knowing what for. Mr. May did not see the analogy between voting money and lending it. All the Council had to do was to see that it had good security. He certainly thought, with the City Board, that the streets were of more importance than the market house. > Mr. Lynch opposad the report, believing that it would be unfair for the Council to pass this bill at prebent. He thought also that the Board had enough funds -under their control for this year ; especially as the levels were not yet fixed. Dr. Pollen thought an impioper course was taken in endeavouring to force the Council to accept or reject the report categorically. He believed the Council should advance the Board what money they as>ked without plans and schemes, provided only that the security offered was sufficient. ' Mr. Swanson said the Board had not settled not to light the city, but had left the matter over till this affair of the loau was settled, that they might know what funds they would have. As to the levels, the Piovmcial Government had delayed their being settled, but now they had left it in the hands of the Board, and the Board were goiug to proceed with them at ouce. Mi. Harrop gave the bill a general support, but wished that the Council should indicate what kind of works were to be carried out. He advocated the immediate erection of a market house and fixing of the city levels. Mr. Sheehan opposed the report, because he did not see that the Boaid could lay out so much money judiciously at the present time. He had no confidence in the City Board. Mr. Hidings thought the Boaid had been very unfanly spoken of to-day. The Board had commenced with a will, and carried on their work with energy, endeavouring to make the most of the small funds at their disposal. They had been compelled to be thrifty, and to dismiss their engineer, because having no money they had no woik for him to do. They had estimated from Mr, Stewart for the formation of six stieets, and the amount was £30,000. It was an insult to citizens to constitute a Board, and give them a great deal of work to do and nothing to do it with. He denied that there had been bluuders. There had been omissions occasioned by want of funds. But have there not been blunders committed in the city under engineers? — In Lower Albert street, Upper Queen-street, Welling-ton-stieet, and Freeman's Bay to wit ■ The members of the Board were not fools, and did not profess to be engineers, and would not carry out anything without proper plans. With regard to street expeuditure, he would mention that in a street which produced a rate of £22, it took £300 to make it passable ; aud m auother, producing £39, it took £300 or £400 He thought the citizens had nothing to complain of while the Boaid had such mi«erable sums at its disposal. The last half-year's rate leahsed only £2,500 — and the utmost amount that could be raised for the next year would be only £10,000. He intended to propose that Queen-street should be partly made by the Provincial Government, as it was used by people from all parts of the country. The Board wished the market-house to be built as soon as the proper time arrived, which would not Lie for at least 12 months yet. The Board wished to lay out definite and broad plans for the impi'ovement of the .city, which they could not do if confined to their rates. He was surprised to see ho mnch opposition to this bill ; it mult be intended as a condemnation of the Board, and if the bill was rejected he thought the Board should resign. Mr. J. O'Neill said the last speaker himself had actually moved that the part of the Loan Bill, 1863, providing for a market-house should be repealed. He should oppose this report as not founded on the evidence taken, and because the Provincial Government, themselves, were not doing what was right to the people of Auckland; to which only £2,000 out of £40,000 was allotted. He believed they were entitled to nearer £12,000. At all events, it should be £6 000, and with that, and £9,000 or £10,000 from the rates, a great deal of good could be done. If the Boaid would spend the people's maney in their owi streets they would not grumble; but it was nearly all spent in Queen-street. The Board threatened to destroy themselves if they did not get £20,000. What, then, were the next Board to get ? If they did die, wisdom would not die with them. If they were left in their present position, he was sura the people of Auckland would wash their hands of the matter. Mr. A. O'Neill would not consent to give the Board so much money until the levels were fixed. Mr. Geoege considered the Board a sham, and recommended the citizens to petition the Governor fosa municipal corporation. - Mr. Wyhn having briefly replied, the question, was put on the adoption of the report, and the Council divided as follows : — . Ayes, 7— Messrs. King, Harrop, Swan«on, Ridings, Daldy, May, and Wynne. ' Noes, 10— Messm. George, Foley, A. O'Neill, J. O'Neill, Lynch, Sheehan, Pollen, Cadman, Grachey, and Ross. Report negatived.

MESSAGKS. Message No. 39 was received from the Superintendent, transmitting report and returns forwarded by the Board of Education. Message No. 40 was received from the Superintendent, transmitting * return of •xpame o£ cutting and embanking on Kyber Pass Road. Ordered to be kid on the table.

ADJOtJBNMENT. Mr. Dalby moved that the House adjourn till Thursday. Mr. Folet moved, as *n amendment, that the Council adjourn for an hour.

The Fbont. — No intelligence was received from the Front l«sfc night, beyond the fnct that tb* troops at* some of the inlying posts were moving forward. " Death from Apoplexy. — An inquest was" held yesterday, nt the Settlers' Hotei, Ofcehuhu, befor* Dr. Phllsnn, on the body of Miry South, who was .found dead by the road side, about a mile from tht Harp of Erin Hotel A jury having been iword, evidence wa» taken, and i'» verdict wai returned of— Died of Apo-