"A Very Poor Case."

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3156, 7 August 1917, Page 5

"A Very Poor Case."

Jlr. M'Donald (Amalgamated Railway and Tramway Association) contended that a job that took four Hours might be docketed three hours and a half |jy the foreman. ■ Tue next <lay a man who took four "hours would perhaps bo dismissed. ill-. Black said they did not know exactly what the card system was. t'liev were putting forward t]ie feeling of the men. One of the strongest objections to the cards was that a record might' be piled up against a man who liad no Knowledge of it. Jlr. Eraser; That is your case. 1 think you will admit yourselves that yon have made a very poor case—no ease at all. You come here and express opinions that the system we have introduced at Handwick, ami which we are about to introduce at Eveleign, is going to operate to the cjttfrimeht of our employees. Your opinions are grounded upon absolutely baseless suspicions, because it is all a ' matter of suspicion. Collectively you know nothing, about the card system. Have you any case really to present to us as a reason why wo should withdraw the system that wo havo deliberately introduced, for the benefit of the men just as greatly as for thoDepartment? Mr. Dengate had used the word "suspicion" in conversation with him, said the Commissioner. The men had no ground for .suspicion in the past upon that point. Mr. Dengate said he had said they had no ground for suspecting the Chief Commissioner.

Mr. Eraser: While X am at the head, every detaif comes under my purview. Mr.- Dengate said ho had referred to tho Commissioner. He did not want the impression to go forth that lie was satisfied with the manngement at Randwick, Mr. Eraser said the system had been introduced by the Commis3?bncrs after careful consideration. It would be as much to the advantage of tho men as to that of tho Department. They had said it would be a system of speeding up. How could that bo so?

Mr. Dengate: It is an admission of your manager at Jtandwick.

Mr. Fraser: It is not to bo a speedingup system, but to give a more accurate statement of ,costs. So far, tlie work of overy man wai} recorded on paper. They wanted moro detail, and they had d right to havo such additional details as they desired,' to ascertain whether the individuals, or the machines, wero doing all the work required of them. That was the right that any employer had. Ho should know tho costs of anything and everything produced in his workshops. Eliminating Shirkers. Twelve months ago, continued the Commissioner, they had introduced a system under which employees were asked to onter the starting and iinishing timet* of their jobs, but the men had a groundless suspicion that the Commissioners were trying to get at thorn in some way, and to prevent friction ho had withdrawn it. Hut he had made it perfectly clear that a method preferable to that one would bo introduced. He hud had investigation made throughout the workshops of Australia to ascertain' tho systems in voguo in privato employment. Tho present card system was the best of these methods that obtained in tho workshops of Australia. "Why have you not objected to these systems tnat operate in the private establishments, if you object to the introduction cf the sjbteni in Departmental workshops?" he asked. "Have wo less right to know .the cost, and whether the machines operating in our workshops are loss ; efficient? 'Ne have just as much right as any private employer." Proceeding, tho Commissioner said the expenditure was advancing through causes entirely beyond thencontrol, and they had to see, in the interests of the public, that everything possible to reduce that expenditure was done before they saddled them with rates aud taxes. If appliances were bad, they had to bo scrapped. Ihe cards of" 6 ": tutod tho only system that v.vuld (ell them whether the apphances were satisfactorv and whether there wero shirkers. "We know there are some, no 6aid. A "Perf3ot System." In reply to Mr. 2 rjant, the commissioner said it was, only during the last v lew years that they had had information ihlt would tell them of the .weak places we "had' introduced certain diagrams and records, which he analysed month by month to discover the weaknesses in working, and by that means had achieved tho results enumerated m the report. They had saved tho employment of some thousands of men, who ™uld have been in the service if they had not been found out They did not want to dismiss any honest worker, but to eliminate any worker who was not honest. The majoritv of tho men had told liim that they hid no sympathy with tho sicker and the go-slow worker. The men had objected to make their own- record of work, and tho commissioners were going to make that record for them. Any man who desired to know the time marked on his card could see for himself. Ho could si*n tho card if he chose. The whole matter was "much ado about nothing. Ho had offered that two officials should explain the whole system, as the Department had nothing to hide. from the unions, or from the perioral public. Ave you as fair to us," 'ho asked. Havo you anything at tho back of your heads in regard to this matter?" Referring to tho system -adopted by Mr. Henry Fowl in tho United States, Mr. Fraser said it was the most perfect thine m the world, and 110 man worked less hard than his fellow-employees. Ho would havo liked to introduce into tho Department s workshops somo of tho equipments and facilities afforded the American workmen for their comfort. "Ton say you don't want our shops Americanised," he said. "Wo wish we could, in many ways, and if wo did it certainly would be enormously to the advantage of our workers, and not to their detriment." It meant efficiency, that was nil. No extra effort was required, thero was no overstrain. The worker thero earned moro than any individual in Australian workshops, and ho finished fresher than many a man in workshops here, who was doing nothing. The card system had conic to stay. Tt would mince expenditure in connection with timekeening and costs. They had no ino.ro right to clmllcngo tho card system in tho workshops tb;\n in the departmental Store?,

llr. Dengato said that was verv good, if it was proposed to treat the liien as material. The commissioner denied that he was doing that. ]n each case a man might urge that ho could be. trusted rather than asked to keep times and costs. In reply to Mr. Sturgess, the commissioner said ho believed in the bonus sys- ' tern. .The Union Case. ; Mr. Deugate said that system had been proved to be wrong. Even with the big , striko in England at present with tho munition workers it was over the very question of the bonus system. Agreements had been made with tho men in. England on the question Of dilution of labour and tho bonus system, but had . bpen broken. Furthermore, when committees of workmen were appointed to safeguard the interests of tho workmen, they were deported to another part of. England. They saw tho way their fellows were treated in other countries, and i they had a just right as unionist) to prevent those systems being introduced here., , It would lie 110 use giving this system a. trial for some liionths, or yeaTs, and then.; to iind out they could, not get rid of it. It was their duty to coino there and say they objected to it. The commissioners . might ask them why they did not protest ; when it was introduced. • They had learnt from experience that' these systems were ,110 good to tho workman. The commissioners asked what objection there was ; to Americanising tho shops. He knew i that in the workshops there a man wasold at 40. They claimed, a man was net' > old here until he was CO, and they wanti ed that to remain. They contended that when a man had given the best of histime to any employer he had a right to live. That was a right a man had not got in America to-day in most of those 1 go-fast siiops. Those speeding-up processes had broken the heart and back of many a worker. It was their duty as unionists to protect their own class. against tho introduction of those systems. Another question 'tho Chief Commissioner touched on was what was done in private shops. He might tell the commissioners that the men had abso- ; lutely smashed up the bundics put there to tick the cards oil—knocked them off the stands. At another shop in Sydney tho men took the card boxes and threw; tlieni into tho furnace. That was what was occurring. Some shops had perhaps been able to introduce it. He had worked in shops himself where they smashed the bundies so that they would not have to tick the cards on them. It was what was happening in other countries in connec-; tion witli such systems that made them at the present time suspicious. He did not want the commissioners to think that they came there just taking fright at something new that had been introduced. It was not new. They understood the system, and they had absolutely no faith in it. They had absolutely no faith in the way it-might or would be worked in some of the Commissioners' departments. A 6 far as the . Ford system was concerned they kuew it was a perfect system as far as output was concerned. They also knew, that the conditions the man had at Ford's and some of the other big places were cevry thing could be desired as far as proper places for lunches, washing, bathing, and other conveniences in that way were concerned. That was not the case cn, the New South Wales railways, where ilio shops were absolutely the worst and dirtiest in the country. Intelligent Decision Wantjd. , Chief Commissioner: Why charge us with that now? Have I not said I -pished I had tho money to make tho conditions better p Mr. Dengate: Quite so. I fcay that money could be found to do it, aid from a health standpoint" a matt is entitled to it. The employees ere entitled to better consideration than they get at the piesent time. Perhaps if the conditions wero made more acceptable to the men they may view other systems iritioduced with a better spirit ihan Dey do toTho Chief Commissioner pointed out that tho shops to which Mr. Dengate took tho greatest objection—the Handwick workshops —TV6ro perhaps tho best and cleanest in Australia. ifr. Seagate where the Commissioners had' sprung the system. It was ready iu tho office of the other branches, waiting to be launched, right throughout the service. . Tho Deputy-Chief Commissioner iMr. Milne) asked several questions, which wore replied to, after which Mr. Ravanagh thanked the Commissioners for having received them and for I- 3 -™? gone into tho matter as they had. At their meeting the previous night a certain decision was arrived at. Personally he took the responsibility of saying that that was arrived at by 'many, at any rate without tho knowledge they possessed now, after the Chief Commissioner's statement. They were meeting ac-ain tliat night to go into the wliole matte, and lie thought it should have an opportunity of considering the matter from s nrdpomt and the different standpoints Ac CMef Commissioner had put to them. He <hd Tint want any decision to be come to un rhe^mUef 8 " "af fbT and likely to.l>e a difficult matter to be got °Mr Eraser said he could .rot ™derstand any difficulty, or its being called a, said it might not appear so to the Commi«ion^^t jt DS^ar Tho'rnaltCT°would be further co.sioeicd liven by the Railway Commissioners to the deputation during the l ' a J G " d decide on future action. After a (Us cuss on which was held in'camera, and whfch lasted until 10.30, the following motion was oarried linannnously. and ordered to be conveyed to the Govarn ment:— • ■ That we re-affirm the resolution carried at the meeting on Monday evening that an ultimatum be issued to the Government stating that unless the whole card system he withdrawn by Thursday the whole <>•. the unions concerned will stop -work. The unions represented at the mEoting were: Boilermakers, Blacksmiths, Pluml> eiW Sheet Metal AVorkers, Government Tramway Employees, Amalgamate! ltoiiwav and Tramway Service Association, Moulders, Amalgamated Carpenters, Amalgamated Engineers, Australian - Engineers, Federated Ironworkers, Timber Workers, and Coaclimakers. The Electrical Trades Employees wero not represented at tho meeting because a special meeting of the executive was bein°- held. A special meeting of the union will tal;o place to-iiight at wkicli the resolution mentioned will bo discussed.