QUESTIONS ON WAR SERVICE

Press, Volume LXXVII, Issue 23363, 24 June 1941, Page 8

QUESTIONS ON WAR SERVICE

CITY COUNCIL EMPLOYEES

Protest Referred To Committee VIEWS OF LABOUR FEDERATION I The questionnaire on war service sent to members of the staff of the Christchurch City Council led to a long debate at the meeting of the council last evening. A deputation waited on the council from the Federation of Labour, protesting against the questions asked and requesting the withdrawal of the questionnaire. The division of opinion among councillors was not strictly on party lines. Mention was made during the debate that the general situation over the attitude of some employees of the council was causing dissension, and that there had actually been one fight. After divisions on two amendments (one suggesting complete withdrawal of the questionnaire), the council decided- on the voices that the representations of the deputation be referred to the by-laws, finance, and depart- " mental committee. The interest shown in the issue was indicated by the size of the public gallery—one of the biggest for many

years. The deputation was introduced by Mr H. McCaw, who thanked the council for suspending standing orders so that the matter could be dealt with immediately. “We are here to protest against the questionnaire submitted to the council employees last week and to request its withdrawal,’’ Mr J. Roberts said. “We . believe that the questions are inquisitorial, irritating, and can serve no useful purpose whatever; they are definitely harmful from the point of view of the war effort and we believe that they are a hindrance, causing disunity and dissatisfaction among the City Council employees. We think that this prying into the private beliefs of its employees is outside the function of a local body or of private employers. Only one body has been given the power and authority to ask some of the questions on that questionnaire—the tribunals set up by the Government to hear the appeals; “In its wisdom, the Government introduced conscription,” Mr Roberts continued. “Among the men called up are some conscientious and religious objectors to military Service, and tribunals have been set up to listen to those objections and to give decisions based on the views voiced to the board. That board and it alone has the right to ask the reasons why persons should not give military service.'’ ■ Mr Roberts said that the position of local bodies,prying into the beliefs of employees had also arisen in Great " Britain,. where it caused a certain amount of concern. He quoted the Archbishop of York as protesting against local bodies passing resolutions asking for the dismissal of employees Whp were conscientious objectors; and be also quoted Mr Ernest Bevln, thfe British Minister for Labour, as Strbnghr deprecating any action of the Sort. The action of the council in &h'dbg out the questionnaire, Mr Rob-; bits said,, appeared to the federation ' an,.attempt, to" usurp the powers of the Government, as the Government . , had; merely delegated its powers to the mbunals. No; power had been delegated to the eouncil to inquire into’ the private.beliefs of its employees/!* •■' “We wIU resist' in New Zealand any attempt .4#'-introduce Nazi philosophy or tactics into tjie national- or civic • life, of the community.' We do not want to see-little Gestapos set up-to Sactise the tnrrd degree on anybody," r ; Roberts said. V, He felt that ..the council did .not realise to the .-full the read ,thjeresoluUon. / of.'protest carried aitf-the meettrtg,. of icOuociL employees, n Wfc chaßenge the-right of any em-. plover: to Issue that questionnaire,” be ■ ■ said.“and our attitude is based on the traditional history of .J*e people’s ? 5 movement.” .He submitted {Hat the ' federation was entitled to know the , reasons-behind the questions. ; Chv G. Manning asked whether the < resentment spoken .of was general throUghout/the staff-orthe cdunhil. Mr Roberjsi'Yes, - There is' general resentment -against the- hature of the /questions; and, I think I can say, - among the general mass of the work- ' era, too. - There,'were, 'approximately 300 at the meeting'on, Sunday;, Mr Roberts said, Mr Explanation “ - Or. C. D. W.' L; Sheppard asked: entirely / the questiona l asked at the council i ‘meeting?” / , rCr. M. 1/ Lyons: That's one for the ; ’ staff. • The Mayor; Yes, ? think the town clerk can .answer that later on. 4 . ■ To,another question, Mr Roberts said 1 that everyone present' at the meeting :* v -vtatt a* council employee, with the ex- .,>■' ,ception>of the executive of the Federai<' 'don- of .Labour,’ ’ was given the oppor- ” (pnity of ; explaining his reasons for staking. .the questions. He said that ’ M hc& had sought ...certain ■ information & which: he. required' as a new member. / *The r :qpestionnalce (he bad seen it for ther first . time last-evening) was to a degree 1 (in, enlargement of the ques-ti-pns*he; had- asked. ' His name had ' bden j mehtibhed ter : hot giving reasons u. tp .the press lor his- questions, but he ; ' the council was the place i a matter. There was ho ' Ulteridfebndtive .behind the questions, and Mptebad done any injustice he > - 't*BS;bf v . called -up and rejected, / because he desired infpr- •. auitioh|#hether it had been the policy ; council t6 appeal for their Shationai service, and to secure the.reasons for the dif* ".*/ lerent appeals. The question about ser- - / .vlce Home, Guard, National

Reserve, and Emergency Precautions Scheme had been asked because there had been a certain amount of overlapping in some Emergency Precautions Scheme and allied organisations, and with that in mind" he had asked the question, his idea being to suggest clarification of the position. If there were men in the wrong organisations, the time would come when they would be needed in the right place. The question about the eligibility or ineligibility of men for service had been asked because the time might come when the council would have to lay down its policy for filling vacancies, he having in mind that men returning from overseas would have a right to be considered. The question about subsidies was purely one to allow the gauging of financial commitments.

“If in any way I have exceeded my duty and offended people, I am sorry, but as a councillor I felt that certain matters, mostly financial, should be obtained through what I felt to be normal procedure,” Cr. Sheppard said. Since his questions had been asked, other and more detailed ones had been given to the staff, largely, he thought, to help in securing the summary he desired. “Definite Injustice” Cr. M. E. Lyons, chairman of the by-laws, finance, and departmental committee, moved that the representations of the deputation be referred to the departmental committee. At the first meeting of the committee he undertook to prepare a report on the subsidy being paid by the council to some of the council’s staff serving overseas. “The previous council visited a definite injustice to members of the staff by paying a ; subsidy to those who volunteered and withdrawing it from men who may be called in ballots. It should be remembered that men who have been or may be called up in ballots would not have been accepted in volunteering days by reason of their family responsibility, yet the single men and those who were free to volunteer are given special treatment.” He felt the anomalous decision of the previous council was one that should be ironed out. Moreover, the council needed to know, in view of th,e possibility of the war lasting some time, just how many' of the council’s staff were likely to serve with the forces.

“I welcomed the request for information on appeals because those who have served on . the council in the last 12 months have often been twitted by the man in the street on our having a staff which has been alleged to be a hotbed of pacifism, conscientious objectors, and subversion. I want to dissociate myself from that view ®f our staff, but it has been put 'to me hundreds of times and we have been asked what the council is going to do about it. We want to have the data to answer those assertions, made loosely and unthinkingly. “If the staff or any considerable section of the staff don’t believe the subsidy anomalies should be ironed out or that their name should be cleared of charges of disloyalty, then members of the council, not having the necessary data, could not assist. The responsibility for that must rest with those who are doing their best to stir up opposition for purely political purposes. I want .to see the tremendous number of good people among our 600 employees are not charged With being pacifists and subversion's.” Cr. Lyons agreed that a municipality Should be ,a model employer, but a municipal employee should also be a model Icitizen. If any employee was pot accepting - the responsibility the 'Government placed on him to. play a part inxthe defence of the country the council had the; right to: know why. There , might be the very best of reasons, i - ' ■:

'Cr. Denton Corrected

“What I am'.interested in is who published this document?" said Cr. H. B, Denton. “Both the Mayor and the Deputy-Mayor said, according to a newspaper. report, that they knew nothing about it” . - - - That; toqy had it. Be accurate In your quotation; Cr. Denton: I thank you for your clarification. ■■ ■ \ . Lyonst Correction; not clarification, . „ . “Can Cr, Lyons be kept in order, asked Cr. Denton, and the Mayor rose to give his ruling. “Must I sit down? Cr. Denton demanded. -/■ ■ ' . ' - Cr. Lyons: Yes; you must when the Mayor stands Up. >- ■_ ’ -The Mayor-ruled that Cr. > Lyons should be entitled to answer the question asked by Cr. Denton, and Cr. Lyons taaid it was ordered by resolution- .of the, council as shown in the jninutes/

The entire i information necessary could have been obtained from the council files, said Cr. Denton, It was a grave reflection that- A document which could stir up such "enthusiasm’ should be issued*without discussion by the council or the committee. The Home Guard and other organisations wereLPurely voluntary and it did not behove the council to ask why any staff member .was not in them. “I do not want to cast a reflection on Cr. Sheppard, but how far was he interested in the Home Guard, the Emergency' Precautions Scheme, and other organisations before the end of May? Or has he only just fouhd out there is a war on? No other, employer has; had the Impudence to make such inquiries into the private life and beliefs of its employees.” ' Cr. G. Manning, who moved that the .questionnaire be withdrawn, agreed that Cr. Sheppard had a right to ask for statistics, but questions on attitudes to war service Could not be reduced to numbers. Her took exception to Cr. Lyons's complaint about precipitate action. as it was made m conformity with the policy outlined by local bodies /in conference. “Whether we like it or pot, in a democratic community we come down to a conflict of loyalties. Every government : ! know has established an institutionrto judge between loyalties to.the State and to private belief or conscience. Don't let us, as emset up an institution with a possibility of victimisation if our employees do not agree with us.” t Cr, T. Green seconded Cr. Mannings amendment. “Entitled to Information”

No one seemed entirely satisfied with the questionnaire, said Cr. F. S/WUding, out the council was entitled to the information asked for, - ‘What is the ihformation to be used fop? ,,, asked Cr. Denton. Only two employees out of 600 had appealed, and one had been allowed. There might be more—he was told there were'five —but the verdict was the . verdict of a properly constituted authority, “If we are all going to set up our own authorities we tear ss well do away with the tribunals. 4. have heard of the action of a private firm in . this city, A conscientious objector on its staff got the verdict of the appeal hoard and on the same day got the sack. Do we want to do that sort of thing on this council?” The information was promised in open meeting and no one objected, said the Mayor. Cr. Denton had said he heard, no criticism of the council fstaff; would remind councillors that the matter has already been before the committee. -There is a good deal of dissension among the staff and there lmtractu*lly been a fight. I have been asked what thO'couccil Is going'to do about it” fnere were .few on the council’s staff who were not thoroughly loyal,' but to 1 people outside they tainted the whole

- Petition from Staff ; ‘T respect 0 real conscientious objector, if he Is honest,” said Mr Andrews, r "But for the disloyalist who lays that we would be Just as well iff tmder Gsnnany I would not stop it .anything to'get'rid of him., That |orf]S ra&lbfw -Itappened bate. 1 ’ He Md that received j petiS,on ;:;frdm Me. staff asking, what the sodqdi proposed to do. about that state tf, affairs, ’ There was strong resent-ment-against the one or two' on the staff who wet<* disloyal, Cr, ( Jjyonsi.And their, Onion 1 is represented-. here to-night.^ ? iln .Shejn m yTV*'':■ ■

volving a member of the council’s staff was a sufficient reply to Cr„ Denton’s contention that there was no disloyal feeling among the staff. Cr. Denton: Lqt us have the name instead of making innuendoes which reflect on the whole staff. The Mayor; It was reported in the newspapers. Cr. J. S. Barnett moved as an amendment that the following be added to the motion; “And, pending a report from the committee, the staff be not required to fill in and return the document in the meantime; and that in any case refusal to return the document be not held as a breach of discipline.” v A division was taken on this amendment, which was lost by nine to seven. The Voting was as follows: For the amendment; Crs. Barnett, Manning, Green, Denton, Maddren, Hurley, and Wilding. . Against the amendment: Crs. Sheppard, McLean, Glue, Brown, Kershaw, Donald, Clarke, Lyons, and the Mayor.