EXPERTS.

Auckland Star, Volume LXVII, Issue 46, 24 February 1936, Page 8

EXPERTS.

DOCTORS IN BOX.

HOW MRS. MAREO DIED.

MANY WOMEN IN COURT.

JURY'S WEEK-END JAUNT.

Many smartly-dressed women filled the upstairs gallery and many more stood, with men at the back of the Court downstairs during the hearing to-day. Public interest in the case is fully maintained. Mareo himself sits in the corner of the box following closely every word. After a week inside he has lost a little of the deep sun-tan he had when the trial first opened. Dressed in a neat striped blue suit, with stiff white collar, he stands erect -with his hands placed on -the front of the dock, while the judge enters and leaves the Court. Members of the jury to-day showed m their tanned appearance that they had spent yesterday in the open. They were taken for a launch cruise around the harbour, but they did not land at any of the islands in the gulf. For the Crown, Mr. A. H. Johnstone, K.C., and Mr. V. N. Hubble appear. Mareo is defended by -Mr. Humphrey O'Leary, K.C., of Wellington, Mr. Trevor Henry and Mr. K. C. Aekins. Two More Doctors. The cross-examination of Dr. E. B. Gunson by Mr. O'Leary was continued this morning. He said he practised general medicine and specialised in heart troubles. He had seen four cases of veronal poisoning but none were suicidal cases. They were all the result of misadventure. . You have no direct knowledge—cluneal knowledge—of this case?— No. I never saw the patient. You are giving your expert opinion as the result of what you have heard?— That is so. When were you first brought into the ease for your opinion? —Some weeks prior to the lower court proceedings. Dr. Gunson said the statements made H>y Dr. Gilmour, Miss Stark and Graham Mareo "were first shown to him, but no opinion was outlined in Dr. Gilmour's statement. He and Dr. Gilmour c6nferred upon written opinions which they had independently submitted and discussed certain aspects of them. Is your opinion quite independent o) that view taken by Dr. Gilmour or am •ther doctor in this case? —Yes, entirely Witness agreed that what might b< an ordinary medicinal dose of verona to an ordinary person might be fatal t< a susceptible person. "I have given thii 4rug to many susceptible persons, bu the effects are not those which Mrs Mareo presented. I have never seei even in a susceptible patient, and I hav

seeD a good many, symptoms of mental inco-ordination and confusion such as Mrs. Mareo presented and I do not know ©f any description in literature." Mental confusion and inco-ordination js the result of an overdose?— Yes. You think this lady had 100 grains of veronal. Is that the total for three administrations or the last ? 1 es, sav it would he the total. What is the poisonous dose m your ©pinion?—A dose greater than ten grains. Any dose -which is greater than the therapeutic dose must be dangerous. What quantity in grains? —The average poisonous dose to produce death is 50 grains. . J/t , When you gave evidence m the lower court did you have regard for the possible effects of what you were saying?— I -was on oath. In the lower court did you say that the quantity recovered by the analyst represented 100 grains and that this dose is quite the average poisonous dose. Yes, hut I went further. I indicated by my further statements the average minimum poisonous dose. _ _ Oh, you put in the word "minimum nav7 ?_ll meant the minimum poisonous dose is 50 grains. I indicated it clearly, in tho lower court.

Now. doctor, will you divide the quantities of the three doses this woman had ? —I have no means of doing that.

How Many Doses? Mr. Johnstone said there was never any assertion that there were three doses. The possibility of mora doses was never excluded. Replying to Mr. O'Leary, witness said that from what he had heard of Mrs. Mareo going off to sleep on Saturday night or early oil Sunday morning, and, so far as the evidence Was concerned, remaining in that state till she died, he could not express the opinion whether she had a further dose. On the assumption that she went into the final sleep about midnight on Saturday she could not have had a final dose.

You expressed the view that her condition on Saturday morning indicated a dose some time prior to that? Yes. Of what quantity ? —More than a therapeutic dose, and less than a lethal dose. What is a lethal dose? —A dose that will produce death. Do you remember saying that you thought Mrs. Marco took a poisonous dose on the Friday night?— Yes. And do you still think that is the position ? —I do. You think she had another dose oil the Saturday morning. At what time? After she made those noises and was found standing before the dressing table, and before she went to sleep again. So that you think she had a dose just prior to being assisted into bed and going off to sleep ? —On the evidence, yes. 1 You are accepting it as a fact that she remained asleep all tnrougliout the a y i —y C s, that is how I understand the position. Have you overlooked the fact that the evidence shows she was in the house alone on the Saturday morning for an hour and a half to two hours?—l have that in mind. " Do you accept it as proved that it she -was asleep at the commencement and end of those two hours slio was asleep in the meantime?—l don't think that is conclusive. Of course you would accept the literature which tells us that the fatal doso varies very considerably?— Yes. You can't help as to the form in which she got the veronal on the Friday night or Saturday?— No. So far as the Saturday night is concerned you tliink the milk is the handiest theory?— Yes, but I don't commit myself. .

Veronal a Sheet-Anchor. Re-examined by Mr. Johnstone, Dr. Gunson said he gave veronal in the course of his practice. It was commonly given. "Veronal is the sheetanchor in the matter of hypnotics m the profession," he added. "It is commonly put on the tongue and washed down. I personally have never ordered that it be washed down with milk, but my nurses have so used it. I have not objected actually to it being so used. Witness had said that the onset of sleep after taking veronal 011 the Saturday would be rapid. , Mr. Johnstone: In your opinion would it have been possible for Mrs. Mareo to have taken veronal before calling out on the Saturday night?—l have 110 reason to think so. If she had veronal before calling to Freda Stark would she have remained awake for two hours?— No. not in my opinion. I account for her sleeping the 20 hours by a big dose—the last dose on the Saturday niglit, prior • to I her going off to sleep.

Dr. Gilmour's Tests. Dr. Walter Gilmour, pathologist to> the Auckland Hospital, recalled, told the Court of experiments he had had carried out with veronal ar.d sal volatile. He had, he said, mixed one teaspooiiful of sal volatile with 18 c.c. of water. To this he had added one crushed-up fivegrain veronal tablet. It had now been in the solution 24 hours and was not vet fully dissolved, as could be seen 111 the bottle produced. He had also mixed three teaspoonfuls of sal volatile in 54 c.c. of water. To this he had added one five-grain vsronal tablet and some of that, after 24 hours, was still undissolved. To Mr. O'Leary, Dr. Gilmour said that sal volatile did help in the dissolution of veronal. On the assumption that there was some undissolved veronal in Mrs. Mareo's stomach when she was driven the sal volatile on the Saturday the sal volatile would assist in the absorption of the veronal. Witness had mixed one teaspooiiful of sal volatile with 18 c.c. of water. That was to show that it produced a milky fluid.

V Would Not Relapse. Dr S L. Ludbrook, consulting physician," the last of the medical witnesses, "ave corroborative evidence. H had used veronal and its c°mpoun< very frequently in course of piactice and had experience of several veronal poisoning cases. ■ If a person suffeimg from effects of veronal was coming out of the coma they would not relapse into the coma without further doses. He had perused the post-mortem repoit of TJr Sour. He knew the analysts findings and he knew S' alf S c'ame to' the conclusion that Mrs. Mareo died of veronal poisoning. He agreed with the other medical men as to the amount of veronal taken. The first incident ? £ npoa attached importance to was tne evidence that Mrs. Mareo was found out of bed on the Saturday morning showing mental confusion. That may have been due to the sympto.ns - ated with her recovering fiom a toxic close taken on the Friday night, or t was possible that may have been the symptoms immediately foHovmg _the takino- of a toxic dose that mornin .. From" the evidence regarding her symptoms during the Saturday witness deduced that she was suffering from the •effects of veronal during that day. e considered - the veronal hac'. been taken

that morning. He attached importance to tlie evidence that she woke of her own accord on Saturday evening. That she was able to hear Miss Stark s voice suggested slie was recovering consciousness. The request to go to the lavatory would also indicate that she had recovered. Assuming tliat she was able to ask for aiul take a drink of water would indicate the same, and the taking of three doses of sal volatile.

"I do not consider that she could have token the dose herself oil the Saturday night, just about the time she called out to Miss Stark, and remained awake for some two hours," continued Dr. Ludbroolc. "It is quite impossible. She already had some veronal in her system and a further dose would have much mora rapid effect than the initial dose." Mr. O'Leary: I put it to you that even doctors might differ on the question that Mrs. Mareo was recovering on the Saturday night? —I don't think so. You are depending for the basis of opinion oil the evidence of Miss Stark? — Yes.

And so I understand you to say that once a patient shows definite signs of recovery they will not relapse into comn ?—Xo.

What do you mean by the "same degree of coma" ?—Coma is a condition of unconsciousness from which it is impossible to arouse a patient even by quito a strong stimulation. When a patient is recovering from coma it is a gradual process. First they become restless, then they become conscious of external stimulation, such as a noise or touch, finally they awake from sleep, and although they may be still'drowsy they may answer questions rationally.' They may express a desire for drink or food, and* although they may sleep again the sleep is still lighter and finally they awake and are quite normal.

If you are wrong in the proposition that a person who once shows signs of recovery does not relapse—if you are wrong in that —the basis of your theory goes? —Not in this case. But if you nre wrong, assuming she was in a coma during the day?— But she wasn't. Sleep, Then Coma. Mr. O'Leary: It would be difficult for a lay person to distinguish between coma and sleep?

Dr. Ludbrook: Yes. The coma would be <fw?f)est two or three hours after the dose, preceded by deep sleep. .

Coma may last several days?—Yee The average is two to three days.

Would you describe her condition on the Saturday morning as one who was suffering from a slight overdose of veronal ?—Yes.

John O. Foley, a chemist's assistant, was called to give formal evidence of the sale of a box of pills. He identified the box but could not say to whom he had sold them.

Detective-Sergeant A. B. Meiklejolm, the first of the police witnesses, said he went to Marco's home at Tenterden Avenue on the evening of Mrs. Marco's death. Detective Hamilton, Detective McLean, Graham Marco and Freda Stark were present. Witness described taking possession of various exhibits, including the bedding of Mrs. Marco. Some of the exhibits he had handed over to the Government analyst next day. On the top of the wardrobe in Mrs. Mareo's bedroom he found an empty wine bottle, a half-size Schnapps bottle and ft quarter size whisky bottle. The only thing he had taken possession of in the kitchen were the ashes from the kitchen grate. As a result of his first conversation with Miss Stark tho detective searched I the house for a bottle containing a I brown mixture and a box of pills, but i he could not find them. I Accused Interviewed.

"About that time," continued Mr. Meiklojohn, "accused came in with }Jiss Browniee. I told accused that we were inquiring into the death of his wife, and I asked him to give a detailed account of everything he knew, and he said he would. Marco said he had bought three lots of veronal in the past three week*. I asked him how his wife came to have liad so much veronal and he said, 'Do you think I am a murderer?' I told him we were only making inquiries. He said he had been'taking one veronal tablet at night for sleeplessness. He said. 'Do I look like a drug addict?' He said the first lot of veronal he bought was a bottle containing 50 tablets, a second a tube of 12, and the third a bottle of 20 or 23. He pulled out a bottle containing 11 tablets from his hip pocket. Tasked him several times where he got the veronal, but he refused to give the names of the chemists."

Detective-Sergeant Meiklojohn was still in the box when the luncheon adjournment came.