UPPER HOUSE REFORM.

Auckland Star, Volume XLIV, Issue 183, 2 August 1913, Page 10

UPPER HOUSE REFORM.

SECOND KEAHrWG- CARRIED. iIAJORITY OF ZvTJSTE. (By Telegraph.—Press Association.) VEsiLINTOTON, Friday.

When tbe-X<ewislative-Coimeil this afternoon, the debate on .the Legislative Council Bni vra* resumed by the Hon. W. H. Tucker, who denied there wae-a mandaxe frcmi tbc people to pace -the-BOL If disEjrtiKiacLHm existed it. was not -with •thr tiVRi-em of nomination, but wJEh the I fact Hint -the Gonti-nnons Mimstry had enjoyed the privilege of nommafcian for so long. Up believed implicitly in. the nominative system, bnt iw>uld vote foT the ameiubnem. ]n the meantime, if the Bill came back into the Comicil. he vwmiM vote against the second reading. The Hon. A. BaldEy siid he did not deeire io give a-eilent >-<ite -onAbc-cpiestion. •He \r;iß in favour of ihfr nuniinaiiFe-sys-tem, .that it was tne only m.j •in which a House couH be -cheeen trhich conl<] adequately dracharge-te fnnctimie.. as a revisory body. He woald >x>te against the Bill.

The .Hon. TI. D. Bell, ia -closing the debate, ri_.id that le.g_sla.tion afEectirng the Constitutron of the country was not to be regarded as ordinarry legislation, eecondly, that the O-rnt-tiiut-on of the country -hould not be changed until it was clear that the public had n-nally made up its mind that a change wai* necessary. As in tlit. former debate many of the rspe-ekers had e*-rpressed dissatisfaction with the nominative eystem of electing a I-ogdsJative Council, "but while agreeing that change was necft-T-ary. a -vide differe-tre of opinion existed as to the mode of reform. He denied that the -form of the change reg-ted with the Council. The opinion of the country and of the popular chamber must be taken im.o accoutrt. In reply to those who said that they rrHTtj-ind further proof of a popular desire for a change, he pointed to the list of proposed legislation <frtated by the Hon. O. Samuel, to the reßult-of tbe last general election, and also to the re-olu-t-ions passed last seseic-n .by the popular chamber. Wnart jnrore members -want? Wh-rf.-caUßed the Cc*nreil to alter it--. con_±i-a_tk>n in 1891? Sorely the agitation that was in tbe conrrtry at that time, but that-«.git_rtion was not as great then as it is now. .Referring to -the scbtitude of the Government towards the a-__e_id_ne__t, be desired to say be "Wfonid 'tiot Tegn/rd the carrying of t,be second reading as any more than an a_nt_rra-tifon of the prrn. eiple that a change initthe cocstitution .01 the Council was- dee-rrable. He read the terms of an ag-reeraent come to with -.fevers Samuel and Onmortd +0 thai effect, and on -that understanding he asked membere to pat"*""- the/second rea-dina; of the Bill. >fr. -v-ranrel, on the 'ba-iis of this-agree-ment, asked leave to withdraw his aj-tendnmnt until tide coniinit-tee 6ta«-e. but leave watt reftns-ad. The Council then:-we-Drt to a division, the second reading- being carried by 21 to 12. The voting was as -follows: — Ayw: Baillie. Ba-j-r. tßdl, Caftan. Collins, Duthie. H_arnshorw, Ceorge, Hardy, Johnston, Kelly, Luke- Mills, ' rKitora. Ormond, 0-_r_ork*e. Pa_jl. Samrnel, Smclair. Smith, Stevens. Xoes: Anstey. Bardtfy. Beeban. Ca-rn-eroes. Gilmer. Harris, jenkinson, -Tones, Rigg, Thorn pso-u. and Tucker! Mr. Bell then moveid that tiie Bill be. ec-iimitled. As an a-mendment to this motion Mr. Sanruel tlien moved bis previous amendment to: refer the Bill to a Special (kirnnjittee. which the Minister-' accepted, -and -which \va« carried.