POLICE COMMISSION.

Auckland Star, Volume XL, Issue 204, 27 August 1909, Page 5

POLICE COMMISSION.

;,- . '• j ■ ■ 4 ."' ■". ';•-■> HON. McGOWAN ON POLITICAL ' INFLUENCE. ~i S THE ONLY REMEDY, ',[ A PLEA FOR PROMOTION. Further evidence was given before the Police Commission yesterday afternoon by Constable Donovan, who has charge of the Parnell station. Witness contended that he had been very harshly treated, and thought it was neither just nor fair that he shoud be in a position which ensured his being ordered about by a younger man : with only half his service. It was a cruel thing, for there were few men' in the service with as good a record as witness had. To Mr. Bishop: You will see how unfair I have been treated. Mr. Bishop; My difficulty is how to desll with your case. Witness: I am willing to take pro-! motion now. Mr: Bishop: What do you think of it, Inspector Cullen? Inspector Cullen: I think Constable Donovan was worthy of promotion at the time of my recommendation, but it •would be cruel to promote him and put him on street duty now, at his present age. Mr. Bishop: You have evidently been passed over, and however sympathetic I may feel, T don't see what I can do. Witness: You can now right a wrong. Mr. Bishop: Yes, in a practical direction. Yours certainly seems a hard ease, but you are not alone in that respect. There is another thing you mu3t seriously take into consideration, and that is the question of how it would affect you in regard to the Police Provident Fund. Ie men are promoted at a considerable age, they would pay very little in, and. take a good deal out of that fund. Witness: Don't you think, your Worship, that it would be hard on mc if a sergeant was put into my station at Parnell? Mr. Bishop: My sympathies are with you, but I must consider the question from a practical standpoint. Witness: May I bring further evidence as to my qualifications? Mr. Bishop: No; I am quite content to accept the evidence put in already, which shows conclusively that you are a worthy officer. If there is anything that can be done to meet your case, you can depend that it will be done, but I do not at present see that I can hold out much hope for you, THE GREENHEAD CASE. Mn. C. H. Greenhead, of Wlaiuku, came forward and stated his desire to bring, certain matters beore the Commission. He stated that he wanted to complain that a case put into the hands of Commissioner Dbinle had not received the consideration it deserved. Mr, Bishop: I see that your written complaint is that political influence has been used to prevent the case you are interested in from coming forward. You complain that the Commissioner hag refused to hear you, and you make serious allegations of forgeries, and the use of false documents. M r - G*«o»»lieadr Jtesj i placed —the matter before the authorities, but no action was taken. I took it before Mr. Kettle, and Mr. Brabant held an inquiry, but I have always been refused the opportunity of bringing my case on. Mr. Bishop: Why don't you lay an information? There is nothing to stop you. Go back to the Court now, and lay an information. Insist upon it. Say I sent you, if you like. Mr. Dinnie: The police may think that the evidence is not satisfactory enough to proceed upon. Mr. Bishop: They are bound to take his information. Mr. Cullen: The Crown may refuse to back up the procedure. Mr. Bishop: Then be can go to the Supreme Court, and g<st a mandamus. No Magistrate can block him. (To Mr. Greenhead): You have the case at your fingers' ends. Why not take the cass j before the Court yourself? It does not come within the scope of this inqidry. But do as I suggest, and lay an information. Mr. Greenhead: Thanks, your Worship, I will do so, HON. J. McGOWAN GIVES EVI&ENCE. When the Police Commission in'sumcd its sitting (his morning, the Hon. James McGowan, late Minister for Justice, came forward to give evidence. Mr, Bishop said that he desired it to be understood that tho Hon. Mr. McGowan was coming forward voluntarily to give evidence. Hon. Mr. McGowanj I am ouite prepared to give evidence voluntary. Mr. J-iiahop: I shall have to ask you certain questions in regard to alleged political influence. Hon. Mr. McGowan: I shall he only too pleased to answer such questions. The Hon. Mr. McGowan then stated that he was for nine years Minister for Justice, and political bead of the Police Department. In answer to Mr. Dinnie, witness stated that he had no grounds for complaint in regard to Mr. Dinnie's administration o<f the Department. The only complaint he had heard was a general desire for more pay, and also in regard to promotion. Mr. Dinnie t What is your opinion in regard to the control of the force? Mr. McGowan: While in office I was quite satisfied. Mr. Dinnie: And now with regard to the allegations of the use of political influence. I suppose you will say political influence has been brought to heart Hon. Air. McGowan: I have frequently been approached in regard to the promotion of the police by members of Parliament. That must always take place as long as members of Parliament have constituents. Mt. Dinnie: In no case has political influence obtained? Hon. Mr. McGowan: No. If a man was worthy of promotion, and woe recommended by a member of Parliament, there could be no objection to that recommendation being made. But if the man ■was not worthy of promotion, then no recommendation of any member of Parliament would avail. Mr. Dinnie: In any case those recommendations would not influence you? Hon. Mr. McGowan: Moat certainly they would not. Mr. Bishop: I suppose it can be assumed that these applications are at times prompted by the police themselves? Mr. Dinnie: Yes, that is so. (To Mr. McQowan): They do seek influence? Mr. McGowan: Yes, unquestionably. Mr. Dinnie: Does the raising of grievances in the House encourage this kind of thing? Mr. McGowan: I think it does. Mr, Bishop: We have heard elsewhere that members of Parliament invite applications of the kind. Mr. McGowan; Yes, 1 have heard .th»t.

Mr. Bishop: Well, how are you going to get over itr'Cin you •uggest a remedy, remembering that this is a Democracy? "™" *" Mr. McGowan: It would be, difficult to find a remedy. I can suggest one, but I would not like to apply it. That would, be to take away the franchise from the police. Mr. Bishop: Yes, but as I said, the question of Democracy is at the root of it, and I do not think you can apply that remedy in New Zealand. Mr- Dinnie; Do you believe that the Commissioner should have a free hand? Mr. McGowan: Yes, up to a certain point, He should have the power of suspending a man, and I would not like to say that he should not 'have the power to dismiss a man. Mr. Bishop: What was the method of making appointments? Mr. McGowan: I appointed police constables on the Commissioner's recommendation. Commissioned officers were appointed by Cabinet on my recommendation. Mr. Dinnie: I presume you do not favour the divulging of information by Departmental officials?-—No, and you musf, I have men in whom you can repose conlidence in making promotions. Mr, Bishop: Do you remember why Mr. Wright was promoted from the position of chief clerk to sub-inspector?—No, except that it was Mr. Dinnie's recommendation. Mr. Bishop: There is considerable dissatisfaction over that appointment, and I am wondering if you can give any information on the subject.—No, I cannot • remember the special circumstances. Mr. Dinnie: You remember that I established the finger-print branch?.— Yes, you came from Scotland Yard with the knowledge which enabled you to reorganise tbe finger-print branch. Mr. Dinnie: You have read what has been said in regard to the leave granted to my son ?—Yes. And had such an application, as that said to have been brought before mc really reached mc, it would certainly have been refused. Mr. Dinnie: It was stated that the first application was for six months' leave of absence on full pay, and that that application was withdrawn after a, paragraph appeared in the newspaper?— Only one application came, before mc, and it was not such an application as that. Mr. Bishop: The Hon. Mr. McGowan is a disinterested person, and c he says there was only one application which came before him. .That should suffice. Mr. Dinnie: You know Detective Herbert. Have you noticed his remarks in regard to yourself?—J do not think it is necessary to go into the reason why I refused to appoint him, as sub-inspec-tor, Mr. Bishop; Touching political influence. When you get letters marked "confidential" from members, what do you do with them?—l keep them confidential. Mr. Bishop: They do not appear on these files? —No, Mr, Bishop: When members approach you, what 4* yon sometimes tell them to put their requests into writing in order that they Tnight be inquired into. , .', • -.. Mr. (Bishop: Have any promotions Ifcen made apart from*the Teconrmendation of the Commissioner? —'Not in my time. Mr. Bishop:""Did" you-go into particulars When the Commissioner made a recommendation? —Yes, always. -Mr. Bishop; A great .deal has been said about anonymous 'letters. Did you. get any cf ihem?—Yes, a great many. Mr. Bishop: What did you do with them? —They generally went into the waste paper basket. If serious allegations were made against members of the force I wonld sometimes hand them over to the Commissioner. Mr. Bishop: Dealing with the principle of promotion. If a man is offered pr«r motion and refuses it, what is your opinion? Should it be optional for him to refuse, as is sometimes done J—No [ they are servants of the public. They sometimes held good appointments which would mean pecuniary loss to accept sergeant's rank. I think .that if they are efficient they should accept promor tion when it comes, Mr. Bishop: There is a difficulty in securing and enrolling now men in the force. Jt looks as if it will be a serious menace to the force. What is the reason, in your opinion? Han. Mr. McGowan: The reason is this. With the formation of so many unions, and making of so many arbitration awards, the rate' of wages has gone "up much higher than it was. The result is that men prefer to join some trade. The principle of increasing wages by arbitration awards is, in my opinion, an unsound one. If the price of labour is . put above its economic value, something must happen. While the country prospers it is all right, but. with a time of depression there will be a very different state of affairs. • I think that this has some bearing on the present scarcity of candidates for the police force. Another thing is that the Police Department does not get the credit it deserves. Some of the finest men in the Dominion are to be found in the police force. THE MEDICAL OFFICER. 1 Mr. Bishop: Is there anything you 1 would say about the alleged dissatjafac--1 tion in regard to the Auckland medical 1 officer?—l ordered a Departmental ia- ■ quiry into the matter. Mr. Bishop; Do you know that there ! is a deep-seated objection to the medical officer?—l judge as much from the news--1 paper reports. Mr. Bishop: What do you think should 1 be done where it is the almost unanimous wish of the men that the medical • officer should be removed?—As long as 1 the doctor is doing his duty I do not • think it should make any difference. ' Mr. Bishop: Not even when the men say they have no confidence in their • medical officer?—l do not see why an • injustice should be done to the medical 1 officer if he is doing his dirty. HU popu- > larity, in my opinion, has not a great deal, to do with it. Mr. Bishop: It seems to mc a personal question. Should the force be compelled 1 to accept a medical officer in whom • bhey have no faith?— The principle still 1 applies. Mr. Bishop: The salary is only one oi 1 £100 per year.—l would not care if it 1 was only £50 a year. I should be very • sorry indeed, to remove any medical man doing his duty properly simply be- • cause he is not popular. Mr. Bishop: It eeems to mc a man's misfortune. Every man must live according to the confidence the. publiq - reposes in him. ; Inspector Oullen said he would liko !to have the Hon. Mr. McGowan's • opinion In regard to the different sizes of the police districts. Auckland, for instance, had 62 sub-stations, with 172 • men; while Greymouth only had 21 1 stations and 37 men; Thames, 21 stations and 38 men; and Invercargill, 21 stations and 39 men. Yet the inspectors in > charge of the latter districts were re- - ceiving within £50 per year of the salaries paid to inspectors in charge ol «1 districts like Aucklwid. «? if''T

'feJ.UJ'JI. . ■'!-■'. '.Jl-. . ■ l - ■_- --.•-.i.-.^i.-:.-'.? ~ The Hon," Mr. replied that there were and inspectors," 'but admitted that the subject Was probably deserving" of reconsideration. Mr. Bishop thanked: tie sate Minister for Justice for. his.evidence, which, he said, would prove of the gre*tertf«lue to the Comminion.' : • "HATR-BAISINa.T.;',., ' ■Mr. H. W, 'Nor»*cat^," evidence, and in regard to the case of Constable Donovan, of JWnell, who was before the Commission yesterday, spoke very highly of that officer* ability. He also spoke in similar terms of the work of. Constable Foreman, of Otehuhn. Questioned by Constable Donovan in regard to Bis' allegation that political, hifluence had been used to get his removal from Coromandel, Mr. Nortberoft said that he believed that the hotelkeepers at Coromandel thought the constable too strict, end petitioned for bis removal One of the hotelkeepers did eohie forward aa a parliamentary candidate and-then retire before; the election. Mr. Northcroft said: there: was one j tiling he desired to refer to, and that was the incident in whicha* constable giving evidence before the Commission had criticised, the manner in which 'an Auckland magistrate conducted his. court. Mr. Bishop: He attempted to criticise. Mr. Northcroft: Yes; he «toted that -the constables held a meeting and decided to bring this matter .before you. I should say that this evidences"! a want of discipline. It would b* just as improper for magistrates to meet and discuss the conduct of Supremo Court judges; Mr. Bishop: This man-was acting as a delegate, and did not appear, happy in the position he was forced into. Mr. Northcroft; ,*Xes;.but it reflects seriously upon the discipline in the force. Mr. Bishop; I.think.the whole thing, is greatly, to he regretted, Mr. Norbhcroft: From, what I know of the older men, I should not. think that they would have had .much; to .di» •with it. : Why, it made my baM stand, on end when I read about it. Mr. Bl«hop: You-had : 'ah*-instance just as bad when ineetfing in Wellington to criticise thiis* Commission. They should be .treated with the contempt they deserve, lust as I treated the Wellington meeting 'witli the ; contempt that it deserved. Forty, of them assembled there and criticised mc. )i Mr, Nortocreft; : y;e£.r 1 suppose they will be drawing up,the sentences next, s Mr. Dinnie: Of course 1" knew nothing, of this until it came up before the Coni]-' mission. : 4 .>' ..; ; Inspector Cullen: Likewise the officers of the Auckland force had po.- idea that; the men \yere gQing\to pring ibia mattor forward, .' ,*' .; : . *~, .'..... .' •' Mr Bishop: It is. very unfortunate. It casts a reflection upon the msmpers of the force in. Auckland as well as in.VVet llngton. ..-.:,. :''.•'"; Inspector Cullen:; I havis . just \ been informed that this matter; Was. never dis; cussed by the constables at any You will remember that the senior police delegate made no reference to it in his evidence.' , ■ ',' '', '; ,' Mr Bishop "t T should be glad to think that this was so. ,"'•/ . ; "".'•'" Constable John Leonard stated that he was present at 'the'.'ineet^gopi';the, police! constables. The questioir* that did come up was in. "^W 1 ;<^)hstables v - being kept at court. N*niagistrate's name was mentioned,-and- it was' decided that no action should be" taken without referring the matter to the inspector, and ascertaining his opinion in regard to what time should be allowed off .for attendance 'at-.the;court. ■". t.C .":',..;..'..,'=; '■ ■' ■' - : '- '■• Mr Bishop: Oh, that alters-'the" position of affairs, and''takes away the reflection which would otherwise fall on the men of the "force. : :It is well that this should be made known. All through 7 the Dominion there is a feeling thai men who have been on duty at night and then attend the court next day should be allowed time off. That is quite a reasonable matter-to diseuse, and I• am very glad to hear that the Auckland constables are not to have this reflection cast upon them. -j Mr Dinuie: I would suggest that the Commission should recall the constable who gave the;evidence[in, the-first place, and said! that the meeting had deoided to protest against, the magistrate wasting the time of the court., '~.., -~...- ; i : Mr Bishop; Very well, toat can b» done* (Continued on Page 2.) j ",, . "• t /, ..,/ ;, ;.