THE FINANCIAL DEBATE.

Auckland Star, Volume XXXIX, Issue 168, 15 July 1908, Page 2

THE FINANCIAL DEBATE.

MB- MASSET'S STRICTURES. •MINISTER FOR EDUCATION REPLIES. (By Telegraph.—Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, Tuesday. Parliament having adjourned for the afternoon to attend the opening of the Maori Congress, the business was resumed at 7.30 this evening, when the Leader of the Opposition started off on the Financial Statement debate. Mr. Massey commouced by complaining that certain important public reports and documents not been placed upon the table of the House. He wished first of all to refer to a phase of the Financial Statement which characterised the progress of the country as due to the Liberal Government. A Voice: Hear, hear. Another Voice: Times -were bad enough before. Mr. Massey: Yes, they wore bad enough before the present Government came into power, though a Liberal Government bad been in power. Continuing, the Opposition Leader said prudence and caution had been thrown to the winds by the Treasurer. There was not a single idea suggestive of cautiousness in the ■whole of the Statement. It was true they lad to borrow money, but there was a difference between running down tho •KirnmtaKa incline with the brakes on and ofT. He did not believe that it would be possible to negotiate these enormous borrowing proposals of the. Government, nnd h» hoped that if the electors did not pin the brake on the mcney-lenders would. As the debt increased the taxation of the ppoplp would go up. Their total loan account now stood at lions. In his opinion the sinking fund wns not nearly extensive enousrh. That stage had now been reached in the country's financial history when the amount of money sent out was actually more than they were borrowing. He did not challenge the existence of the surplus, but he thought they should put a stop to many of the items which went to make up the capital account. Dealing with the railways. Mr. Ma-ssey said "he bad hoped before this to see the stage system 'introduced into New Zealand. The-Railway Department was the least progressive of all the Departments, and it would take a ten to~> jack or a charge of dynamite to shift it. Reverting to the Government policy of borrowing within the Dominion. Mr. .Massey claimed that the price of money j •tad gone up for this reason, and the ' wacre-eamers and workers would bn the f first to feel the pinch. The scarcity of i money caused employers to restrict operations, and the worker suffered. The ■ Prime Minister had stated that in five i years they had borrowed three millions in j Australia" and a million in New Zealand. | But what of the huge amounts borrowed ' from the AJVI.P. Society? There had innumerable instances of New South Wales and ofaer countries going to London and raising loaus at 31 per cent. Why could not the New Zealand Government do the same, and go to the London market to raise what money was necessary without making tlu currency scarce and dear within the Dominion? Touching upon the proposal to substitute the post-audit for the pre-audit sys- ' tern, Mr. Massey said that it was necessary to strengthen the Audit Department, and he found fault with the proposed change. "There were very few people who understood the country's public accounts, " arid he thought there was urgent need for simpiificatioix.'" Speaking of the question of increased taxation, Mr. Massey said the unimproved value of land had been kept up, and taxation thus increased. He proceeded! to argue that the iriethod of valuation was at fault, and condemned, the system, as at present applied. Dealing with the roads and bridges scheme, and the proposal to vote £250,000 for opening up the back blocks, Mr. Massey referred to the vote as an attempt" to bribe the people of the country with their own money. Election year was responsible for many wonderful concessions. He agreed with the proposal of the Government to offer small areas tinder freehold tenure. He hoped that six months hence there would be no falling away from grace in regard to the national annuities scheme. The Opposition would support any movement of a truly progressive nature. In conclusion, Mr. Massey said it was fitting that the Dominion's contribution to the upkepp of the Navy should lie increased.— He found fault with ■ the Government's method of assisting the volunteer movement, ment, and claimed that a aiucfc more progressive policy should! be observed. He had every belief in the future of New Zealand, but in his opinion the time had arrived when it was necessary that the officers of the ship of State should exhibit caution and care in case of any difficulty which might-arrive. HON. MR. FOWLDS REPLIES. The Hon. Geo. Fowlds said that the financial statement had been generally regarded as eminently satisfactory; yet the leader of the Opposition had succeeded in finding a good deal to complain about. In reply to Mr. Massey's remarks that many of the departmental reports had been unnecessarily delayed, the Minister pointed out that the statement had come down earlier in the session than Mr. Masse}- had ever known before. Touching upon the Opposition Leader's reference to the Liberal party, the Minister for Education said that the members of the Opposition had gradually been working more abreast of. the times. He had no doubt they were now ahead of their old-time views. As long as the Government had been in office they had heard the same warning cry from the Opposition of depression and a " backset." He claimed that the statement showed in every line of it extreme prudence and caution. Mr. Massey pointed out some indication of that caution. Hon. Mr. Fowlds: Well, the erection of the Waiuku railway, advocated by yourself, has been treated with caution. (Laughter.) Continuing, the Minister for Education said that a million and a quarter loan would not have been nearly sufficient to meet the needs of .the .country, if the Government was not as prudent as it had been, r _~ Referring' to the piuposal to Taise a £250,000 Joan..for back blocks roads, Mr. Fowlds said that it was not the Government's intention to spend that amount in one year only, but in four.years in sucession. He had no doubt.that this was a ' severe blow to ;the Opposition members, who hadi been living politically on these back blocks people, trying to.persuade them that the Government was their worst enemy. Mr. Massey: So it is. Hon. Mr. Fowlds: Then it is a queer way the Government has of showing enmity in spending £250,000 per year for four years on the back blocks roads.

Mr. Massey: It is their own money. Hon. Mr. Fowlds: It is nothing of the kind. The money belongs to the people of the Dominion as a "whole. Continuing, ;,he hon. gentleman said that he was glad to hear that the Opposition Leader had not challenged the existence of a surplus by calling it a paper or a bogus surplus. Only £28,500 of the last milHon loan floated in th« Dominion had bean tak«n up within New Zealand. The Opposition Leader had no information to warrant the contention that the amount of money raised in NewZealand had had any tendency to cause a shortage of money. There were other and more cogent reasons which might be pointed to for any suggestion ox a shortage. Surely in oases where a surplus was available in tho Dominion, the Government was right in taking that money and keeping the interest within the Dominion. Dealing with the question of taxation, the Minister for Education said Mr. Massey had admitted that there was no increase, but had endeavoured to prove that an attempt had been made to effect an increase in an indirect way. If the small farmer was in fear of an increase of taxation, it was due to the manner in which Opposition members •had, both in the House and out of it, ■talked in a way calculated to frighten them. If there was any rush on the part of small farmers to havr their farms re-valued in case their land was taken from them, and if there was a consequent increase in taxation, they had ■only the Opposition to thank for it. But he had learnt from the Valuation Department that there was no such rush on the part of small farmers, and an ounce of fact was worth a pound of theory. In spite of the long attempt on the part of the Opposition to throw dust in the eyes of the settlers, they were clever enough to see and realise that the Government was thpir best friend. Mr. Massey: What about the result of the Manukau election? Hon. Mr. Fowlds: That was a seat occupied by the Opposition Leader's friend, and the electors could only be expected to vote as they did out of sentiment. In conclusion, the Minister for Education said that the Financial Statement, displaying such prudence and caution as it did, proved that the ship of State was in careful hands. Mr. Lang, who followed, said the Sud- j get reminded him of the saying that "everything in the garden is lovely," es- j peciafiy since the Liberal party came into | power. The fact was that New Zealand | was such a good country that it must go j ahead in spite of a bad Government. It would have been a great deal better if they had had a Government which did more for the people, particularly in regard to the settlement of Native and Crown lands. He considered, also, that, although Ministers were justified to some extent in going about the country, they should not neglect the preparation of policy bills, which all might be ready for the House when Parliament met. Further, he urged that the Leader of tho Opposition should be given equal faciliT ties with Ministers in going about the country and addressing the electors. As to the Arbitration Bill, the thing -n-anted was to put down the professional agitator. If that -were done thore would be far fewer strikes. Mr. Buddo contended that land settlement was going on as fast as could be expected, while wim Mr. Lang's complaint about over-legislation, he urged that it did not square with his complaint that Ministers had not their new proposed legislation ready at the beginning of the session. As to the North Island railway, he remarked that in that work the country had undertaken something which seemed absolutely impossible with its limited population. To carry out such a work was a credit to any Government, and certainly a credit to the finances of the country. As to the Culverden estate, he blamed'the Government for acquiring a portion of it which necessitated it 3 being cut up into too large holdings. Further, he urged that when the capital of the Bank of New Zealand was increased the State should take a larger interest and see that more reasonable charges -were made. The debate was adjourned at 11.45 p.m.