BLOCKADE CONTINUES

Ashburton Guardian, Volume XXXIII, Issue 8724, 25 November 1913, Page 7

BLOCKADE CONTINUES

SECOND BALLOT REPEAL.

CHAIR-MAN APPLIES THE

CLOSURE.

MEMBERS INDIGNANT.

(Per Press Association.)

WELLINGTON, November 24

The House resumed at 2.30 p.m. in committee on the Legislature Amendment Bill.

Before calling on the business of the day, Mr A. S. Malcolm (Chairman of Committees) made the following statement:-— ■

"The committee was occupied almost continuously during the whole of last week with the Legislature Act Amendment Bill. Though t.;:. debate was the longest on record no

progress was made. There have been occasions in Parliamentary history where the Chairman, in order to deliver the Committee from a deadlock, has disregarded the Standing Orders and insisted on the business of the country being proceeded with. This is the- commentary of Sir Maurice O'Rorke (the then Speaker) on one such case, as recorded in the Journal."

[Mr Malcolm here read the - statemerit made from the chair by the Speaker (Sir Maurice O'Rorke) in 1881, in which he- indicated that 1; i. ■' Speaker had power to intervene to stop a deadlock by ignoring the Standing Orders.]

Continuing, Mr Malcolm said:— "We all know that the majority must rule, and that the minority must sooner or later submit to superior force. I am not prepared just at this stage to follow the precedent quoted, in which the Standing Orders were ignored; but I shall from now on use to the utmost lirnii the powers the Standing Orders give —and they are very wide powers—to bring this deadlock to an end. 1 trust this intimation will be received in the same friendly spirit in which it is made, and that members will support me in my effort to maintain the reputation and efficiency of Par-

liament."

Sir Joseph Ward contended that the position to-day was vastly different from that in 1881, and therefore that the remarks of Speaker O.'Rorke /had no bearing on the . present position. Then af deadlock was carried on by moving alternate motions—that tJit chairman leave the chair, and that progress be reported. That could not be done now. He appealed to the chairman to cay whether during the long discussion- members on his side had not" strictly conformed to the Standing Orders, though it had, been very dim • cult to do so. The Standing Orders as now framed made ample provision for dealing with deadlocks.- Sir Joseph quoted the 'effect of Standing Orders 107 and 205 to show that this was so. He claimed that these Standing Orders were designed to protect the freedom of members, and through them the freedom of the people. It was not possible to act in the present juncture under Standing Order 24 of the House of Commons, because that House had no Standing Orders similar m effect to our Orders 107 and 205. The delay which had taken place since Saturday morning was due entirely to the nonacceptance by the Government of the offer made by him to pass the short title of the Bill. His side did not want to come into conflict with the chair. Therefore he asked Mr Malcolm to say:

(1) Whether he proposed to set aside the Standing Orders as the laws which governed the Business of the House;

(2) Whether he was prepared to take on himself the responsibility of preventing members moving and speaking to amendments;

(3) "Whether members were to have the right to speak four times on any question in committee.

Unless members knew what was going to be done it was possible tnat there would be delay. Mr Malcolm drew attention to that part of his statement where he said he was not prepared to follow the precedent quoted, but that he would exercise to the full the wide powers which the Standing Orders gave him. He took all responsibility for the course,he proposed to follow. Sir Joseph Ward then indicated that his party would allow the short title and the next clause of the Bill to pass without further discussion. He presumed that the Premier would then move the proposed amendment and give members their opportunity on the second reading debate. The Prime Minister (Hon. W. F. Massey) controverted the Leader of the Opposition's interpretation of the Standing Orders, which (he said) ,had no relevancy to the question at issue. He claimed' that there were many precedents which brought the present deadlock on all fours with that of 1881. He referred to the speech of Speaker Brand, in the House of Commons and that of Speaker O'Rorke to show that the Standing Orders were never intended to permit, a minority to impose its will on a majority. The discussion then ended, and the short title,and Clause 2 passed without discussion. The Hon. F. M. B. Fisher then moved, without comment, a new clause as follows • —

"The Second Ballot Act, 1908, is hereby repealed. The . Legislature Act, 1910, and the Legislature Act Amendment Act, 1911, shall hereafter be read and construed as. it _all references therein to a second ballot

were omitted."

Asked to explain the clause, ;Mr Fisher said if provided for the. repeal of the Second Ballot Act. ' Sir Joseph Ward said that the repeal of the Second Ballot Act had never been an issue before the country, and members were not pledged to it. It was true that its repeal had been advocated in the House, but with the distinct promise that there would be some substitute. He quoted from a speech by Mr Massey to show that in 1911 the i Premier favoured a substitute. The present Bill was a breach of faith with the House and the country. Mr Massey, in reply, said his side was distinctly pledged to repeal the Second Ballot Act, which should have been repealed years ago. It had had a, most demoralising effect wherever it had heen in operation. The second ballot had up to the present given' no advantages to either party, so it coukj not matter if it were abolished. l'Kl Mr Seddon secure his mnjorities by means of the second ballot? Yet he came along every year with substan-

tial majorities. The second ballot had been disastrous to the so-called Liberal Party, which had dwindled until it was out of office. He could not understand them resisting the repeal of the Act. The Government had pledged itself to bring an Electoral Bill before the House next session, and the House would then have an opportunity of inserting a proposal if it though fit. If no substitute were proposed the people of the country would be quit© satisfied. -,','•., Jr Mr G. W. Russell quoted Hansard, showing'where Mr Massey had advocated a; substitute for the second ballot. He held that bargaining which had gone on in the past had been instituted by the Reform Party. He instanced the Grey Lynn and Otaki seats at - last election. In both those cases members whom Mr Massey had sought to buy over were members of the "Red Federation" body, which was now denounced by the Government. He further stated that the Chairman of Committees who had applied the guillotine in 1881 had been swept from office as soon as the people had had an opportunity of expressing their opinion of his action. , .

The discussion is now proceeding along general lines, the Government being accused of indulging in the bargaining which Mr Massey condemned. Mr Russell declared that the debate would end in 10 minutes if the Government would promise to. 'submit a substitute for the second ballot next year. The House resumed at 7.30, when Mr Glover continued the debate.

At the close of his speech the Chairman announced his intention to apply the guillotine.- He said: "I think I have allowed fair time for discussion. Members, I notice, are, beginning to repeat their arguments, and I wish to put the clause."

Lyttelton Election.

Mr Massey rose and said: " I desire that you report progress, in order that Mr Speaker may take, the chair and official steps be started in connection with the Lyttelton by-election." The motion was carried.

The Speaker took the chair and read a telegram intimating the registration of the death of Mr Lauren son.

Mr Massey moved that a writ be issued.

Sir J. G. Ward asked the Premier if he hod agreed that repeal of the second ballot should not apply to .the Lyttelton by-election. There waif a precedent for that in the original Second Ballot Act. He intended to move an amendment in that direction.

Mr Msssey, in reply, said: "We are not regarding the repeal of the second .ballot in its relation to the Lyttelton election." ;

The motion was then put by the Speaker and carried. . The Committee then resumed. Guillotine Applied. >

The Chairman began automatically to rule members put of order. Mr Seddon was the first victim of the guillotine, and Messrs McCallum, Atmore, and Colvin were then ordered to resume their seats in quick succession, as being irrelevant. Mr Colvin protested : " I have hot said anything." Mr Millar asked the Chairman to say what was relevant, and Mr Malcolm refined to express an opinion, but proceeded to say that, as Mr Millar was not present when he made the statement during the. afternoon, he proposed to allow him greater latitude than would be permitted to other members

Mr Colvin objected to fish being made of one and flesh of another.

Mr Malcolm admitted the force of the contention, and intimated that he would restrict Mr Millar to the same limits as others, .

Sir Joseph Ward rose to say that it must' not be supposed that the Opposition concurred in the attitude of the Chairman. \ Mr Millar proceeded to demand to know from the Government what it proposed to substitute for the second ballot, when he came into clash with' the Chairman, who ruled him out. Members continued to be ruled out, \vhen Mr Ngata rose to a point of order, asking for a statement from the chair as to how many times an argument could be repeated before it became tedious repetition. The Chairman ruled that the matter of tedious repetition was entirely in his discretion, and each case must be dealt with on its merits. .

Sir v Joseph Ward, speaking to the point of order, said his side would obey the ruling of the Chairman.'

Mr Russell proceeded to give reasons why the clause should not be read a second time, when he was warned.

He was followed by Mr Millar, who rose and asked that progress be reported so that the Speaker might be called in to explain to the House what he meant when he went to the Governqr and asked for the right of, free speech, and returned,to the House and told members that it had been granted.

When the Speaker took the- chair Mr Malcolm explained the proposition to Mr Lang. . Mr Massey. said that freedom of speech had been referred to, but'it was ab\ise of speech that was '.objected to. ,

Sir Joseph Ward proceeded to de~ ] tail the provision made in Standing) Orders in controlling protracted debates, which standing orders/ he contended, could not be ignored. The Speaker said a great deal" of what had been said had .nothing to dd with the question he was called to decide. He had no choice but to say the of relevancy was entirely in the hands of the chairman. TW chairman decided, and his _decision was final. He quoted authorities in support of this, position, and concluded by saying that he considered the chaivman was, justified in adopting the course he had.: He then left,the chair land the committee resumed. j Mr Atmore, continuing the debate, [was immediately ruled out on the ground of tedious repetition. Mr.Poland met with no better fate, and after be had-spoken for a few minutes the. House adjourned for supper. Shortly after the committee resumed a division was taken and the .clause was carried by 36 to 26.

Mr Ngata moved to report progress I and was ruled out on the ground that the motion was a mockery. A motion that the chairman leave the chair was also ruled out for the same reason. . ' ' Mr Ngata proceeded to discuss the clause in committee, when he was stopped on the ground of tedious repetition. He then asked the chairman to say whether it was not permissible to use arguments in the committee stage which had been used on the second reading. . Mr Malcolm admitted that this was the right of members and relaxed the /stringency of his'former rulings, mcmi bers "taking. advantage of the privilege Ito denounce the'methods of the Gov- ! eminent of forcing the Bill through, i Mr Russell moved that this section ' shall not come into operation until

Ist March, 1915. He wanted the country to have an opportunity to express its opinion on the question.

The motion was lost by 34 to 24. Mr Ell moved that the clause shall not come into force until a referendum of the people has been taken on the question on the day of the next general election.—Lost by 34 to 20. At 11.30 p.m. Siiv J. G. Ward gave notice of his intention to move > an amendment " Provided that such repeal shall not apply to any by-election which takes place prior to the next general election after the passing of the Act" This motion, he said, was based on precedent. ' The motion was not accepted by, the Government and was rejected by 34 to 35. ;

Members argued that it was _ quite possible and probable that candidates representing the Reform party would at next election, if the second ballot was repealed without a substitute being provided, put up a candidate between themselves and the Liberal candidate to split votes to ensure the return of the Reform candidate. Repeal of the second ballot would mean thao government of the people for the people by the people would go by the board. : The clause moved by Mr Fisher, providing for repeal of the Act, was carried by 33 to 23. I The Government accepted an amI endment by Mr Ell allowing the ICommissioners to vary the quota m urban areas fromlOO to 250, and another amendment, to reduce the counI try/quota from, 28 per cen;t. to lopeicen't. .was defeated,by 41 to 14. WELLINGTON, November 25. After 2 o'clock a division was taken ■on Mr Russell's amendment foi- a I single transferable vote, which, was defeated by 31 to 21. . Mr Hiridmarsh moved an amendment providing for the signing of all articles the period between the issue ot the writs and the return thereof. Inis was lost by 37. to , 16, and an amendment to make women eligible for election to the Legislative Council was lost by 36 to 16. , ,-y' ■'.' . At 3 a.m. a]l amendments were disposed of except, one 1 by the Minister, [providing for the Minister issuing the I writs in elections in the event ot the death of the Speaker. •The- House rose at 3.5.

The estate of- Behnont Castle, Perthshire, Scotland, which belonged to the late Prime Minister, Sir Henry Camp-bell-Bannerman, Bart,' Member for_the Stirling Burghs, has been' purchased- by Sir James K. Caird, Bart., Dundee. It is understood that the purchase price is ■ £55,000. Situated immediately to the west of Meigle, the Belniont,estate extends approximately to about 1000 acres. It includes the very handsome house known as Belmont Castle, which is surrounded by spacious garden grounds and beautifully wooded parks. Magnificent views across the valley of Strathmore to the line of the Grampians on the-north and west are afforded from the windows, of the Castle. YOU NEVER KNOW. You never know where that cold that is troubling you now is going to end. Better -take care of it. After the milk is spilt'it is too late toci-y about it, and the same thing applies very often to a cold in the chest. Cure it to-day. There is no time like the present. A standard remedy for coughs vand colds is Baxter's Lung Preserver at Is lUd. Get it to-day and use it. - . 4 61