HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Ashburton Guardian, Volume XII, Issue 2446, 28 August 1891, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House met at 2.30 p.m. PRIVILEGE., , Mr Richardson rose to,a question of privilege m connection- with -what had raken place at an early hour that morning during the debate on the aiotibn to commit the land Bill. A serioup charge had been made against him by the Minister of Lands m connection with two runs m Otago, he having been'confronted with the statement that the late Hon. Robert Campbell had said that he had squared the then Minister of. Lands (Mr Richardson) m connection with those runs. That was such a serious accusation that he could not pass it over.- without noti**. If it were proved that he (Mr Richardson) had acted m the manner alleged by the Minister of Lands lie: had- no right to be m the House, but if Mr McKenzie had made a false charge against him m connection witrh dm matter the Minister of Lands had no right to sit m the House. He therefore moved for a Committee to enquire into the whole circumstances, the Committee to consist of, five members, and to enquire into the whole matter, and to report within seveu days... „: Jn reply to Mr McKenzie, the Speaker ruled that this, was a case of privilege, And that the motion was m order, «j» it stated that the reflection had been made on his (Mr Richardson's) conduct adit Minister of the Crown. Mr McKenzie asked whether his withdrawal of the words "last night had re* moved the matter from being a" question of privilege. Mr Rolleston said that he was present last night when Mr McKenzie said that he should withdraw the words, but he added that they had been uttered all the same. : ,-.-■■''■->"? Mr Seddon said that if Mr Richardson telt sore at Mr McKcnzie'a wgeds, surely he should feel satisfied after his colleague had' withdrawn 1 them.'' He should advise, therefore, that no further proceedings be taken m the matter. ; .= *! Mr Bryce said that Mr Seddon did not see the gravity of the affair.' "-It was not a question of withdrawing .wot^ls, but of making a disgraceful charge... A '- The' Premier said that it was quite true Mr Richardson considered that a disgraceful charge had been made against him, but he was not entitled to move that it was a breach of privilege, although he was perfectly justified m giving notice of -the Committee for, another day. There fwfca nothing to imply, ihata; giagraceful charge had been made, except the interpretation put on the words by the gentleman who had used them, and who was not now here. His colleague had no desire to shirk an inquiry, but" had contended that the matter had been settled last night through Mr McKenzie having withdrawn the words. He di(l not see that there was any urgency m the matter. ; Mr Rolleston ;Said Sis; opinion was that no man eh»uld lie under a charge of that kind for a single hour, and lie h >ped that the House would agree to the Committe being appointed. Mr W. P. Reeve § said that this chargi had been made two. years ago ; and it wa.s then slated that Mr Robert Campbell had said-he had come to Wellington m oon^ nection with those runs, and had got all that he wanted'from the Government. Mr Buokland Baid tjhat the two things were entirely, different^ as that was only a vague statement; but th* present was a distinct charge. . , • . ■ The Speaker eventually ruled that Mr Richardson was- entitled to move for a Committee to inquire into that portion of Mr McKenzieta remarks to the effect that if the matter of those runs were enquired into it would not be to Mr Richardson's credit, but-as the other words used by Mr McKenzie had been withdrawn they really had no existence. \: ■ ■ Mr Richardson denied that the words had been withdrawn absolutely, as Mr McKenzie had uttered "the other words after their withdrawal. Mr Bryce said that there was no doubt the charges were still persisted m, notwithstanding what was said,. from the Ministerial benches, ..- . ' S -: The Premier contended -that the Speaker had' already, ruled that those charges having been withdrawn they did not now exist. ' ■' i - " Mr Bryce slid that the Premier should be ashamed of himself for that statement. The Premier demanded that those words should be. withdrawn. Mr Bryce refused 1 to withdraw them, saying that he was prepared to take the consequences. "' : :'.f The Premier moved that Mr Bryce's words be taken down. 1 '" " •• The Speaker at this stage (3.30 p.m.) ordered the galleries to be cleared, and the whole 'of the galleries wete cleared W Cue Sefgeant-at-Arn»;;»iid were still closedat 5.30 p.m.- •'. ,: The -galleries were, ' Ireopenbd at t.sf\ p.m. ' "■ "' >■''>:.*"■■■■.. '.': Mr Rolleston said that he had no doubt that- the proceeding would, be as orderly now thai* the repp,rtors were readmitted as they had been during tlje »j;(;ern.oou,

Mr Seddon -objected to Mr Rolleston's remarks, as the galleries had been cleared by the express direction of the Speaker, who could not know what turn the debate would take. -,; The Speaker said that he had ordered the galleries to lie cleared m the exercise , of Ins undoubted right, and he did not think-that any explanation of'his actjon: was necessary. He then -put Mr Rees' motion which was under discussion when the galleries Avt re reopened, namely, " That the House regrets that the words taken down "'were used by Mr Bryce, though qualified as they were by subsequent; words used by the honorable member." 1 '. Mr George Hutchison moved an amendment "That Mr Bryce be informed' that the words he used were objectionable, and that he be afforded an opportunity of explaining or retractirist them." The Speaker said that this could nob be put at present, as they were an entire substitution for the original motion. Mr Rees' motion was carried by 33 to 24. Mr Bryce, who had left the chamber while the discussion was proceeding, was sent for by the Speaker. On Mr Bryce taking his seat the Speaker informed him of the resolution just passed by the House. Mr Bryce said that;he did not know that lie had any right to address the House on the present occasion, but perhaps the House would allow him under the circumstances to say a few words. He should not inform the House that the words he intended using were "that the Premier should be ashamed of himself for relying oh a technicality to prevent an inquiry into a disgraceful charae against another member.'* He had only got as far as " technicality " when he was interrupted by several members and could not finish his sentence. He wished to say that he perhaps personally regarded the word "ashamed" m a different light to othermembers. Mr Ballance was possibly not far wrong when he had said that thi word "ashamed" was m some way a phrase peculiar to himself (Mr Bryce). If he (Mr Bryce) did any injury to any man wrongfully he always felt ashamed of himself, and this was the first result of the shame he felt m trying to make an atonement for having done the Premier an injury. He used the words shame m no way expressing disgrace, but. the opposite of it. The ■Government would admit that during the session he had given them |some assistance m the conduct of business, but he supposed that the whipping up of their supporters for the motion just carried wae the Government's usual mode of expressing gratitude for his past conduct this session. He went on to state that the Speaker's predecessor had stated he (Mr Bryce) had never been called to order, *hi!st he (Sir Maurice O'Rorke) presided over the House. He was proud of that commendation from Sir Maurice O'Rorke, and he felt proportionately miserable m having now received the censure of the House, although that censure was brought about under the scourge |of the Govern ment whips. In conclusion he said he should now leave the House, and whether he would enter it again would be a matter for bis own consideration. Mr Bryce then bowed to the (Speaker and left the chamber. The Speaker said that the House would now proceed to the question of privilege. The Premier thought that Mr Richardson should give notice of his resolution, j Mr Scobie McKenzie said that as the I Minister of Lands had Jast night with- | drawn the words he had used against Mr Richardson, he saw no reason why he should not do so now m the presence of a fall House. After the despicable victory which the Government had gained over Mr Bryce they would surely not objecf to the Minister of Land* again withdrawing the words. The Premier asked Whether his colleagues was requhed to withdraw the charge m view of the future step to be taken. He felfc sure that if it were desired; the matter could be settled at once. The' Minister of Lands would not fcesitate to make a statement, but it would be very different if he were asked to withdraw the words as part of some future line of action. ; Mr Richardson declared that the Government had done their best during the afternoon and evening to prevent the enquiry he had asked for, and he appealed to honourable members to remember that ifc might be their turn next. He had been charged with corruption, and he asked for an enquiry into the accusation. Mr McKenzie-—" I made no charge of corruption." Mr Richardson said that four;of the. Ministers on the benches had by their attitude during this discussion suggested that there was something m the charge. He should to-morrow giv» notice of a Committee of Enquiry, which would be arranged by the leaders of both sides, but after that he should take no further steps m the matter. Sir John Hall asked whether it was fair or just that a member, who had been charged with a serious offence should not be afforded an opportunity of clearing his character. - , Mr W. P. Reeves wanted to know how they could appoint a Committee to enquire into a charge that had been withdrawn, . and which was really never made. It was simply ridiculous to assert that four Ministers had affirmed the charge He had expressed no opinion at all on it, but had pointed out that a similar charge had been made two. years ago m connection with the same subject. Mr McKeirae said .that if anyone m the House had reason f or complaint of the conduct of the Opposition it was himself. One thingin particular they had constantly charged him with, and that was that he was discourteous to the House. He challenged any honourable gentleman to bay whether he had beef} discourteous to members, and if he had been he apologised for it at once. He wished to say that m anything he had mentioned about ( the Otago runs he did not for one moment accuse Mr Richardson of corruption. At the request of the Speaker he had withdrawn the words complained of, but made no reservation m doing so. He saw no good to he gained by again withdrawing the words, and he did not intemd to go on his knees to humble himself before mem-1 ' bers of the Opposition and the press of j 1 the colony* Mr Pinkerton moved the previous question which was put and carried by 36 to 22. Mr Richardson's motion therefore lapsed. THE W> Tl> MM" The Land Bill was further considered m Committee. In clause 31, the penalty for lighting a fire m a forest was fixed at six months' imprisonment or a fine not exceeding £50. Clause 38—Land Boards established. Mr McKenzie said that he proposed next session to bring down a Bill providing for elective Land Boards. Mr Rollestun remarked that every Minister of Lands had made a similar uromise, but had been unable to give to it. Elective Land Boards would not be practicable. The clause was passed. Progress was reported, and the Hou&e rose at 12.45 a.m.