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HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wednesday, Junk 22. The House met at 2.30 p.UL ' NOTICE OF MOTION. % Mr Macandrew gave notice that ySSt Licensing Bill would be satisfactory which did not leave to each district to determine the class of license to be issued in it and the fees to be paid.

QUESTIONS. The Hon. John Hall said that he was ,s guided by constitutional practice when, after having placed the Governor’s despatch on the table, he declined,, !!! hi* explanation, to accept the responsibility for the despatch of his Excellency to the „ Secretary of State in reference to the < resignation of Mr Bryce. In support of, - that contention, he quoted from ■Tod’s “ Parliamentary Government —in---the Colonies,” citing a case in which a despatch from Governor Weld* to the * Secretary of State was, with-the sanction of the Imperial authorities, treated as a document for which his responsible advisers were not held responsible. . In answer to other questions, it ‘ was stated: —The plans of the electoral districts proposed to be formed under the new Representation Bill were in coarse of being prepared, and would be supplied to members as soon as they were ready, which would be at an early date.—The Government have received the report of the Middle Island Land Purchase Commission, and it would be produced When printed.—Colonel Scratchley’s interim report on the state of the defence of the more important colonial ports and coaling stations has been furnished to , the Imperial Defence Commissioners. A further report was promised, but Government saw that Colonel Scratchley had been engaged on services for the Imperial Government, and it was very doubtful when a further report would be forthcoming.—The hew Representation Bill would be brought down as soon as possible. The delay had been caused by the non-receipt from:' Auckland of certain necessary returns, which only arrived the day before'yesterday—lt was the intention of the Government to fill up the portfolio of Public Works. NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time-The Port Chalmers Drill-shed (Mr Macandrew) ; The Educa- . tion Reserves Act, 187?, Amendment (Mr Pastings); To amend the Hawkers Bay and Marlborough Rivers Act, 1868 (Mr Fulton); To Provide for the Formation of an Institute of Surveyors in the Colony of New Zealand, and for the Incorporation thereof (Mr Tole) ; The Otago University , Reserves Vesting (Mr Oliver); To amend the Timaru Mechanics’lnstitute Act, 1876 (Mr Turnbull) ; The Otago‘Harbor Board Leasing (Mr Stewart.) THE CIVIL SERVICE 1 Mr Andrews moved—“ That in all 1 cases wherein any- member of the Civil : ■ Service, or any member in the Government employ, shall be charged with an offence by which they may, if found guilty, become liable to fine or dismissal,"when i such, charge shall be heard by the > authorities appointed to deal with such , questions, the case shall be heard with i open doors, so that the press of the colony i maybe present to report on every case 1 it may be disposed to make public.” 3 The Hon. J. Hall ; opposed jthamotion. 1 He said that the service had ample proi lection by Act of Parliament; and it b would be highly inconvenient to the > efficient conduct of the service if the' i course proposed by the motion were tobe > adopted. > Mr McLean considered that the protection afforded the members of the service was too much. He would be in favor of I sweeping away that extra protection, and i leaving civil servants to be dealt with on the Same footing as the servants of a private firm. Mr Macandrew opposed and Dr Wallis ’ supported the motion., 6 Mr Stewart thought that, greater facil- ' ities for proceedings inordinary courts of ; law would meet the case. | ' Sir G. Grey supported the motion. The • tendency was for the civil service to. fall • into the hands of a very few families, cou- ! scquently it was necessary that- publicity 1 should be given to investigations of tliis > Soft,, otherwise very great injuries might hot improbably be inflicted. After further discussion the House divided—Ayes 35, noes, 28. The follosr- • ing is the division list ; i Ayes—Messrs Andrews, Ballance, Barron,. Brown, De Lautour, J. B. Fisher (Buller), J. T. Fisher (Heathcote), Sir W. Fox, Sir G. Grey, Messrs George, Hamlin, , Harris, Hutchinson, Jones, Leviitam, J Imndon, Macandrew, Montgomery, IPSt, , Reeves, Reid, Shanks, Shephard, Shrim- , ski, Speight, Swanson, Taiaroa, Tawhaia, . Tewheoro, Tole, Tomoana, Turnbull; J Wallis, Wood, Wright; [ Noes—Messrs Atkinson, Bain, Bowen, j Bryce, Colbeok, Collins, Dick, Fulton, Hall, H. Hirst (Wallace), Hursthouse,- | Johnston, Levin, Mason, McLean, Mur- , ray, Oliver, Ormond, Rolleston, Bussell, . Saunders, Seymour, Stewart, Studholme, Sutton, Trimble, Wakefield, Whitaker. COASTING STEAMERS. . . . t Mr Hutchison moved that; in the ' opinion of this House it is desirable, for | the due protection of life and property, ' that such an amendment be introduced into the shipping legislation as to prevent small steamers trading along the coasts cf New Zealand, and carrying passengers, from leaving any port insufficiently manned. He stated instances in which vessels of this class had gone to sea insufficiently manned. Had a storm arisen or the machinery become disabled disastrous consequences would not improbably have ensued. 1 ; The Hon. Major Atkinson doubted the sincerity of the mover. Their rule of: action had always been to leave the individual members of the State free until experience had shown that it was necessary for the State to interfere. In this case no such necessity had been shown. They had been told that a steamer or steamers had left this port insufficiently manned. They had not, however, been told .what insufficient manning meant. He took it for granted that the insurance . companies would look sharply after matters of this k;nd. Mr Levistam considered the question one of great importance. It was not only small steamers, but likewise the larger class of steamers that went to sea undermanned. The Hineraoa, he understood, went to sea in that condition lately, with a body of volunteers. The Treasurer had said that no accident had ever taken place from this course. He did not know about that. Disasters had taken place, and none was left to tell them what was the real cause.

Mr Sheppard moved, as an amendment, that a committee be appointed to inquire into the whole subject, and to ascertain what amendment in the law was desirable. f

Sir G. Grey complained of the assertion made by the Treasurer of' his belief that the mover of the motion was not sincere. He (Sir G. Grey) entirely* concurred in “ the motion, and considered the thanks of the community due to the mover. Mr Oliver concurred in the appointment of a committee, and suggested that the -committee should consider the v necessity for. supplying all classes of passenger vessels with cork jackets and other appliances for saving life at sea. ' \ £ Mr McLean also concurred _in the appointment of a committee, seating that, it would tend to ishow how’ rnudh of thpimputation made against the shipowners was l wholly untrue. He defended ‘the ‘ * owners of the Tararna from the impnta- , tion-l east upon them by one ot v thh* ' previous speakers. The proposal to. provide life belts, &c., was in his opinion a . wise suggestion. ' Mr Hutchison withdrew the motion in

. {avoirofibb amendment, mkl tic letter - was carried. The House adjourned at 5.30 p.ia. and resumed at 7.30. DUNEDIN EXHIBITION. - The Hon T. Dick stated, in reply to Mr Shrimski, that Dr Hector had been appointed by the Government to report on ' " i the Dunedin Exhibition. SECOND HEADINGS. Mr Murray moved the second reading of tie Drainage Bill. .In seconding the motion Mr Bain said that this was a BUI which had received a 1 great deal of attention in.the Southland district, and they were much disappointed that it had not passed last session. Mr DeLautour said the BUI was incomplete. Under the Public Works Act ample powers were given to the local i bodies to provide for drainage purposes, and he thought that was sufficient for all the requirements of the case. The i, ‘ speaker went on to point out the confusion and other irregularities in the BiU as ' amed. The Hon J. Hall pointed out that the drainage proposed by the BiU was of a different character from that provided for by the PubUc Works Act, The Bill had a very desirable object indeed, and one which the local bodies had no power to overtake. The Government would be prepared to give it their support. He admitted that it had in framing, and with the view of remedying those he suggested that it should go before a Select Committee. Mr Stevens asked if one purpose of the BUI was that a person wanting an outfall for his drainage should call in the justices and get them to assess the value that the outfall may have conferred on the adjoining land. He called attention to that point with the view of getting the of members prepared, for the consideration of the point in committee. Mr Bastings hoped that the BUI would be supported, and if needs be get - . amended in committee. In Otago and Southland he knew of lands lying idle simply because there were no means for compelling conterminous proprietors to go Is for.a drainage system. He knew, that the Public Works Act could not be made to overtake that class of drainage. Mr Montgomery pointed out that the Bill had been fully considered by a select 1 committee last session. _ ’ ’ Mr Murray having replied tne Bill was read a second time. 1 Mr Stevens moved the second reading of l the Fire Prevention Bill. He explained > that it was an exact transcript of the Bill of last session. _ _ Mr Shrimski objected to the Bill, as it < {rovided for the imposition of a tax for fire i rigade purposes in places where the taxes ■ were already heavy enough. _ Mr Stevens having replied, the Bill was read a second time and ordered to be com- j nutted in a fortnight. < LICENSING BILL. ( The Incensing BUI was further con- •, sidered in committee. Clauses 63 to 71 i '■ were passed; danse 72 was postponed, ] and clauses 78 to 81 passed. i Clause 82—Applicants for renewal not « required to attend unless notice of opposi- I tion given. 1 Sir W. Fox strongly objected, and moved that the clause be struck out. j The clause was passed with an amendment by Mr Fulton, giving the chairman . power to summons applicants to attend. On Clause 83, Mr Moss moved an ( amendment to prevent the licensing com- 1 mittee, on its own motion, cancelling any license without giving notice to the appli- t cant to attend. ( The amendment was opposed by Mr 1 Saunders and negatived. The clause was v passed. Clauses 84 to 88 were passed ; clause 89 ] verbally amended; clauses 90 to 92 were passed; clause 93 was postponed ; danse 94 was amended by the substitu- : tion of two members of the licensing com- . mittee for two justices of the peace. Mr Saunders moved that clause 95 be t struck out. If a tenant committed; an X offence he thought the landlord should . suffer. It would make them more careful 1 in selecting tenants. - ■ Sir W. Fox supported this view. • , ■. Messrs Sutton and Stewart strongly objected to it and supported the clause. ; After further discussion the clause was ‘ passed as printed. . Clause 96. was postponed. Clauses 97 to 107 were passed. Clause 108—Fees for Licenses. - Mr DeLautour said that houses in scattered districts iu Otago paid only LlO. He thought some concession should be made to establishments of this kind, as ■. they could not afford to pay L3O. He , V would move that L2O be substituted for L3O. !

Mr Barton moved that the Committee report progress. He objected to any alteration, as he knew that the local bodies ’were mainly dependent on these fees.

~. . The Hon. T. Dick said that the present * , fees ranged from L2O te L 76. He thought ' 140 a fur average in boroughs, and now ; that.the bottle license was abolished he y . belieyed that even Otago publicans, where 1 the.fees is now LBO, would not object." Mr Turnbull thought that fees should form part of the consolidated revenue or the local government fund, and not go to . boroughs* The fees proposed were very moderate. Sir W. Fox was surprised at any ob- , jection to pay such moderate fees for the great privileges given. Ur Bastings protested against the attempt made to degrade the character of license-holders generally. They would compare favorably with any other class of the community, and were liberal sub- . scribers to all public objects. It was . absurd to talk of their enormous profits, . and the House should not inflict excessive .fees upon them. , . Colonial Trimble said that the , publicans’ monopoly was the result of an ' science between temperance and intem- ■ perance—between publicans and total abstainers. ' Ur Levistam said that it was absurd Sir i W. Fox talking of publicans making 800 per cent. Sir W. Fox—l have been told so by a ;■ publican of ten years’ experience. Mr De Labour's motion was postponed to. enable Mr Bastings to move that the fee within boroughs be reduced from L4O to L3O, and Mr Barron’s amendment for reporting progress was not pressed. .Mr Whitaker suggested that the fee should be fixed in proportion to the population. A largely populated borough r .should be made, to pay a higher rate than r ,the smaller boroughs. The profits of the one were bound to be larger than the other. The Hoase divided on the question that L4O be retained —Ayes, 30 ; noes, 26. Mr Whitaker moved that after the . words 140 there be added the words, “ provided such borough shall have a "t population of hot less than 3,000.” ■> The amendment was negatived on the voices., Mr .peLatbur ' moved that outside | v ' boroughs thefee be L2O, instead of L3O. " 15 Major' Harris moved a further amendC j toink that the fee be fixed at a sum not / 'exceeding L2O. , . t .* r Mr Murray moved that the words “If ■_ not five! miles from such borough ”be inrsotted in the,clause. jMgjßj&lffv Murray’s amendment was negatived yx; ion tho voices; A yea, 26; hoes, 26, House', divided on Mr De Lautour’s thatytbe fce be L2o.' i Ayes, 24 ; thatj be.L29. ' Ayes, 2-4; noes, the fee be L 25. to on the voices. reported, and House

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Permanent link to this item

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AG18810623.2.15

Bibliographic details

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES., Ashburton Guardian, Volume 2, Issue 377, 23 June 1881

Word Count
2,388

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Ashburton Guardian, Volume 2, Issue 377, 23 June 1881

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