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PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE or REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, October 1. Tho No-Confidenco Motion. Mr. Dick said the new members bad been cautioned that if certain measures were passed they would have to go back to their constituents, and if they did not support the Ministry they would he rejected. He was, however, afraid he would have to run the risk of this serious wreck of his political hopes. He was not well up in Native affairs, it was true, still he ventured to form an opinion upon them of his own. He did not think the Premier and his colleagues in hanging on the Natives to get an interview with the King Natives followed a dignified course. Their better course would have been to have stood aloof from the Natives and allowed them to make the first advance. To give the Natives to understand that they had only to make a disturbance, and then that money would be spent on them and humble overtures made, was calculated to give the Native mind a false estimate of the true state of affairs. A nobler course would have been to have taken prompt action and apprehended Te Whiti himself, and kept him in custody, instead of apprehending the men who were merely acting under his orders. The Premier gave himself out as a great authority and a man of influence amongst the Natives. When at the Cape, and on Iris own representation, he was re-appointed Governor of New Zealand. As Governor he may have done some good, but as Prime Minister bis conduct had been marked by a want of decision. They had been told in glowing terms that his name would go down to posterity. Had he never taken the position lie now occupies, he (Mr. Dick) believed his name would have a better chance of reaching posterity favorably than it was now likely to do. He had made great promises and propositions, hut he had failed in carrying out these. He promised to reduce the expenditure by £IOO,OOO, but what did they find. There had been no reduction ; on the contrary, they found that although tho former Government, may have chastised them with whips, this Government had chastised them with a scorpion. The speaker traced the movements of the Premier in the Government stump, and expressed his regret that lie stated that ho would do the same thing again. He trusted that the House would prevent him from doing so. He next referred to tho Cabinet dissensions, and spoke of the Luckie appointment as degrading to the country. He denied that the present was a covert attack upon tho Liberal measures demanded by tho country. He deplored the abolition of the Provinces, but having been given effect to, their wisest course was to build up the system which took its place, and work out the details taken in hand by the Provincial Councils. It was unfair to place members in the position in which they were placed. In consequence of the Public Works policy being vested in this House, it exposed them to danger of dealing unfairly with the Public Works administration of the country. Mr. Ireland said ho thoroughly agreed in the policy embodied in the Governor’s speech, and* would be prepared to support the Government in its endeavors to carry the same into effect.

At 11.40 p.m. the debate was adjourned till Thurday, on the motion of Mr. Fisher.

Thursday, October 2. The House met at 2.30. PROVISION FOR FIRE ESCAPE,

Mr. Seymour asked the Government to take such stops as may be necessary to compel hotel and lodging-house keepers to provide and maintain facilities for escape from upper rooms in case of fire. The Premier said that the matter would be considered, and also to what extent the Act should be made to apply, and whether to private houses as well as public-houses. GOODS SHED AT DKOMORB. Mr. Wright asked whether any instructions have been given for the erection of a goods shed at Dromorc in time for the next grain season. The Hon. J. Macandrew said that inquiries had been made, the result being that the Government did not think further accommodation was required under the circumstances. BRIBERY BILL. In reply to Mr. Saundoi’s, The Premier said Government had prepared a Bribery Bill and it would be introduced at the earliest possible opportunity. AN UNBLUSHING FALSEHOOD. The Hon. J. Hall rose to make an explanation. In the “ Now Zealander ”of that morning, a letter was published, signed J. C. Brown, which set forth that the Hall-Vogel Government of 1872 had promised him (Mr. Brown) anything lie might name for his vote at the time when the want-of-confidence motion was pending. The members of the Government at that time were the late Sir D. M ‘ Lean, Messrs Fox, Vogel, Ormond, Gisborne, and Reeves. He (Mr. Hall) had communicated with Mr. Ormond on the subject, and the testimony of Mr. Reeves would be available if required. Mr. Ormond’s recollections quite concurred with his own, and he (Mr. Hall) would ask the House to believe that the statement so made by Mr. Brown was absolutely nothing more nor less than an unblushing and unmitigated falsehood, Mr. Brown’s name on that occasion never having been mentioned in the Cabinet, and it would he the very last name the Cabinet would have thought of mentioning. Another statement in the letter about the Luna being sent to bring votes from Otago was also an untrruth. The Luna went down with the San Francisco mail.

Mr. Brown complained of the language made use of by the leader of the Opposition, “absolute unblushing falsehood.” He would challenge the leader of the Opposition, whom he dubbed a “Johnny All-sorts,” to get a Select Committee appointed to enquire into the truth or otherwise of the statements which appeared in the newspapers. On the Speaker’s ruling, Mr. Brown withdrew the term “ Johnny All-sorts.” In response to an appeal made by Mr. Hall to Mr. Gisborne, that gentleman said that he was a member of the Government referred to, and no such proposal had ever been made to Mr. Brown so far as he knew'J Had it been made, he

(Mr. Gisborne) would never have remained a number of a G tvorninont, capable of such conduct. Mr. Brown said ho acquitted Mr. Hall and Mr. Gisborne of all responsibility for the proposal, nevertheless it had been made, anil if allowed an opportunity he would prove it to be true before a Select Committee.

The Hon. J. Hall challenged Mr. Brown to name the party hy whom the offer had been made.

Mr. Brown replied that if a Select Committee were appointed, he would be prepared to establish both that and other facts of a similar import. Tho Hon. J. T. Fisher led off the Noconfidence Debate. He accused the Opposition of never doing anything that could be called liberal until forced by the voice of the country; and the new Opposition leader had never done a liberal act all the time he had resided in the colony. The class of men who desired to see a change of Government were those who wished to see labourers’ wages reduced. Mr. Murray did not see on what grounds the Governor granted a dissolution, as, in the absence of a re-distribution of seats, there was no plea for it. Mr. Barron was not a party man, and would vote so that a good Opposition would not be transformed into a bad Government.

Mr. Masters had made up his mind to support the Opposition. The House adjourned at 5.30. On resuming, DEFICIENCY BILE.

A Deficiency Bill for £IBO,OOO, rendoro. necessary by an informality in a Bil already passed, was introduced by Govern ment, and passed without question.

The No-Confidence Dehate was then resumed by Mr. Seddon, who claimed that the voice of the country had declared in favor of the Government. He said Mr. Masters had been returned to support the Government, and had betrayed his constituents. Mr. Whitaker would vote with the Opposition. Pie supposed from Mr. Seddon’s speech that that gentleman desired a West Coast block vote to be handed over to the Government in return for a million of money being spent on the Grey Valley Railway. He twitted Government with ignoring the incidence of taxation in their programme, and said that though no financial statement had yet been produced, it was known a considerable deficit existed, but Ministers had been silent regarding how it was to be met. Pie also complained that no indication had been given as to what was proposed to be done towards the improvement of local self-government. It was, as it stood, notoriously defective, and yet not a word was said on the subject. He complained that in the matter of railway construction the Premier had shown great partiality towards the Thames district, which he lately represented, to the neglect of the adjoining districts, more especially the district he (Mr Whitaker) represented. Ha accused the Premier of unduly favoring the Thames municipality with reserves. Sir George’s Liberalism was only a repetition of the works of Carlyle, and the Premier had no more right to palm them off as his own original ideas than he had. Sir George was not alone in the House the representative of Liberalism ; the great principles would become law whether Sir George was in Kawau or in his long home. Major Te Wheoro having spoken,

Mr De Latour addressed the House. Serious charges had been made against the Government. The Ministry ought to comprise the ablest men of the colony, independent of the part from which they came, but he would be suspicious of a purely Canterbury Ministry. He questioned the Liberalism of the Opposition and its leader. The House adjourned at 12.30.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, October 3. PROTECTION, In the Legislative Council to-day, after the transaction of routine business. The Hon Mr Chamberlain asked if the Government intended to introduce any measure for the protection of local industries. He said a protective policy was necessary to the prosperity of the country. (No, no.)

The Hon Colonel Whitmore said the Government intended to refer the whole subject to a Select Committee. PUBLIC TRUSTEE. The Hon. Mr Holmes moved for a return from the Public Trust Office, under the Public Trustee Act. He expressed his belief that had there been a public trustee in England, as there was here, the ruin of many persons by the failure of the Glasgow Bank would not have been caused.

The Hon Mr Woterhouse said the appointment of a public trustee was outside the business of Government. Had there been a public trustee iu England, Government would have been responsible for the whole of the losses of the Glasgow Bank. The motion was carried. DECEASED INTESTATES BILL. The Deceased Intestates Bill (Hon Mr Wilson) was read a first time, and the second reading ordered for Tuesday. MISCELLANEOUS. A Native Affairs Committee of eight members was appointed. On the motion of Captain Fraser, the selection was made by ballot. The second reading of the Habitual Drunkards Bill was postponed till Tuesday, the Council being disinclined to take general business till the political crisis is settled. The Council adjourned at 4 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House met at 2.30. MU. J. C. brown’s QUARREL WITH THE HON. JOHN HALL. Mr. J. C. Brown applied to be allowed te ask a question without notice. It was, that the Postmaster-General be requested to state whether the Luna, on 31st Aug., loft Wellington with a mail on hoard, contrary to what was stated by the Hon. Mr. Hall. Mr. Hall said that he had never stated any date as to when the Luna left Wellington with a mail. Eventually the latter part o" the question was struck out and the question as amended was put. Mr. Fisher said the information asked for would be obtained.

WASTE I. AX IKS BOARDS. Mr. Hutchison asked Government j whether it is their intention, in connection j with their proposed land legislation, to I introduce a measure of reform in the Waste Land Boards of the Colony ; and if so, will the Minister of Lands indicate the direction in which such reform will sh ow itself. Mr. Brown said that on the second reading of the Land Bill, now before the House, he would state the views of the Government on the point. THE GOVERNMENT STEAMERS. Mr. Hutchison asked Goverment if they will be prepared to call for tenders for the repairs of the Government steamers as they did for other public works and repairs. The Premier agreed with the general tenor of the question, but they were not always able to get these repairs done by tender. PRISON LABOR. Mr. Stevens asked whether there is any foundation for statements made that a number of men have been dismissed from the r employment on the ballast train on the Canterbury section of the New Zealand railways, and that prison labor has since been employed on that duty. Mr. Macandrew replied that having no works for the prison gang they were employed in the work indicated. CUSTOMS REVENUE RETURNS. Mr McLean asked the Premier if lie would lay before this House a statement showing receipts from Customs revenue for the quarter ending 30th September, 1879 ; also receipts from land revenue for the same period. APPOINTMENTS SINCE PROROGATION. Mr Bowen asked if the Premier would lay before this House a return of all persons appointed since the prorogation of the late Parliament, to any paid office or position of emolument under Government, stating in each case the nature of the office, whether temporary or permanent, and the emolument attached to it. SIB J. VOGEL. Mr Murray asked if Sir J. Vogel applied to the Government for leave to stand for the representation of an English constituency in the House of Commons. If so, was such permission refused, and why ? The Premier said that the AgentGeneral had made no such application, and the opinion of the Government was that lie should not stand as representative for an English or any other constituency. EMPLOYEES ON GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS. Mr Andrews asked if all the employees on Government Railways were treated in a uniform manner as regards hours of work and rates of pay ; if a uniform working day exists of eight hours ; if any exception exists, to whom does it apply ; if a uniform rate of pay exists for similar services given ; if there is any fixed rate for the payment of overtime, and if so what that rule is, and is it observed in all cases. Mr Macandrew, in reply, laid on the table a copy of the regulations under which railway' employees were engaged. THE JURY LAWS. Mr Hutchison asked if the Government intended to introduce a further reform in the jury laws, more especially (1) by the abolition of the Grand Jury system, (2) by an improvement of the coroners’ inquest by jury, and (3) by an increase of the payment to common jurors. The Premier said the whole of the question was under consideration by the Government. WARDEN. Mr Seddon asked if it is the intention of the Government to open a Warden’s office and appoint a Warden for the Wairarapa district. Mr Gisborne replied that so soon as the land was proclaimed an arrangement would bo made for receiving applications for mining purposes. FIRST READINGS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—For the Abolition of Imprisonment for Debt (Mr. Hutchison) ; the Debtors and Creditors Act 1876 Amendment (Mr Sheehan). The No-Confidence Debate.

Mr. Bowen resumed the debate on the No-Confidence amendment. He said the grossest misrepresentation had been made against the Canterbury Members in connection with the Land laws. Statistics would show that there were more of the yeoman class settled on the lands by virtue of these laws than in any other place. For the objectionable part of the Canterbury land laws he said the Premier was alone responsible. When Governor of the colony, ho had, in defiance of the prayer of the people, given effect to legislation which actually gave away their lands to the large monopolists. What he did was in defiance of the machinery of the Supreme Court. To those who were acquainted with all the facta of the case, it was perfectly amazing to see the Premier trying to shift his responsibility for these proceedings on to the shoulders of others. What disgusted Members on that side of the Mouse was the absolute imposture there was in the cry set up by the Government of its Liberal! interests. A good number of extracts had been made from Mr. Hall’s speeches in the Legislative Council. Now, what were the facts of the case. These very speeches were in reality the answers made to questions put by the present Colonial Secretary. The fact was that there were no fixed parties in a new country like ours. It was simply absurd. Parties were from time to time created as occasion arose. Any of the acts of the Government done in defiance of Parliament would in another country have been sufficient to unseat the Government. Their conduct in connection with Mr Larnaeli was quoted as a case in point. In Parliament it was stated that Mr Larnach went home at his own expense, and now it turned out that he had been paid some thousands of pounds. Mr Bowen instanced the Triennial Parliaments Bill, and stated that it had drawbacks which had not been fully considered. It would do away with an appeal to the country on the occasion of some sudden emergency. In a case of that kind it would be deemed more advisable to allow it to run out. It was not, however, a question which divided both sid s of the House. It only divided individual members. He hoped that those Bills which had been kept dangling before the! country would now be allowed to p.tss,' and that the Legislature would settle down to the business of the country, and' not have men going about idle asking them for bread and getting nothing better |,

tlian a stone. He then alluded to the Land Bill, and stated that the objection of his side of the House as to the defects of the Bills have now been fully sustained. He felt convinced that this country would be satisfied with nothing short of a more equitable distribution of taxation than was provided for. In con- . eluding he stated that his side of the House hoped to sea true Liberalism, end not the word made use of for mere clap-trap purposes. Mr. Tainui remarked upon the fact of the leader of the Opposition having left the Upper House and come into this one. He did not know all the time the hon. gentleman had been in the Government that he had ever passed any laws for the good of the Maoris. He thought that Sir W. Fox ought to have been leader of the Opposition, and ho felt convinced that he would have been able to form a Government. He would ask that any laws passed might be made similar to those passed for the European. He believed the Premier, if left alone, would be able to remedy some of the evils endured by the Native race. The natives of the Middle Island thought that nothing had been done for their special benefit, but they thought that legislation was now progressing in that direction. Mr Tawhia said that the leader of the Opposition was a member of a Govemwho embarked the colony in a Maori war, and it was not fair for them to blame the Government now in office. He had come to the House as a friend of Sir George Grey and Mr Sheehan, and he would, carry out what he was sent to do. » t Mr Tomoana said he came there about the native grievances. He came to ■ support those who were doing well for the Maori. Not one promise made affecting the Natives throughout the islands/ had been fulfilled. He did not think the Native Minister had administered affairs satisfactorily. Personally, he was not opposed to the Native Minister, nor yet to the Premier, but ho considered they had misrepresented the Native affairs. He could not support the Ministry in the present crisis.

Mr. Sheehan said he would not have ’ spoken at all but for the fact that there : were so many new members by whom i his silence might be misconstrued. He thought they would be glad to have heard the Maori member who had just sat down. It appeared from the remarks made by ’ one of these members, that the leader of ! the Opposition had intended the .Maoris. The member had said that Mr. Hall was a new member, and that he believed all he had said to him would be carried out. That was the way in which support was gained. Whatever was asked was promised. > They had been told that the Premier was ; the first man to make war in "New Zealand, : whereas the fact was the war was ingehe- ' ral swing when the Premier came here. 1 Some of the promises made by the leader r of the Opposition to the Maori members i were perfectly absurd. The same ques- ■ tions had been put to him (Mr. Sheehan) and he replied, it can’t be done ih'the ! present state of Maori affairs, it is quite impossible. Ho could come to no Qther conclusion than that Mr. Hall for party purposes had made promises he never would . nor yet intended to fulfil. He would ask i them to consider for a moment the poaii tion of the case. They claimed to be the ■ superior race ; they had introduced Christianity amongst the natives, and yet for party purposes, to gain these benches, they misled the Maori and made .promises to him they never intended to fulfil. He would say that the members on; the Government side of the House were Well satisfied with the change which had taken place in the leader of the Opposition. : ' ! He , thought they would all agree that in-Mr • Hall they had an improvement on what they had last session. He referred to the fact that they had gone to the country [ with a majority of 14 against them. They ■ have found that they had come back with a good firm majority in their favor. Ho further alluded to the absence of certain leaders—Sir W. Fox, Mr Whitaker, bto., ■ and argued that these facta alone showed that the Opposition had not the syinpathy of the country with them; He had to complain of the course taken by the Opposition as being, if not unconstitutional, at all events unparliamentary and unfair. They moved a vote of want of confidence before the Government were allowed to bring down their measures. Now that was most unfair to the new members. Old members knew from past experience, and all the information that conld be got from Parliamentary papers and records of -the House what took these new ones at a disadvantage. They had to take for granted that whatever they were told was true, and were not allowed an opportunity to investigate the truth or otherwise for themselves. He then went on to say that it was a well known fact that many would be disposed to support the Government, but the excuse they made for their defection, was, to use their own words, because they could not stand Sir George Grey. He would defy anyone to point out a valid reason why the Premier should be thus denounced. His (Mr. Sheehan’s) private character had been attacked last session. iHe would say nothing about that, but when he found his private character agaia assailed outside the House during the lato elections, ho thought he had a right to complain. The constituency had very properly rejected the candidature of hfs maligners, and he hoped constituencies would always make an example of such cowardly conduct in a similar way. The Member’s speech was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. The House resumed at 7.30.

Mr. Sheehan resumed the debate. He proceeded to rebut a statement by Mr. Hall that discontent with the Government existed all over the colony. He assumed that special reference was made to the feeling in the North Island. The fact that the Maoris of the Thames refused to give up the offenders was no reason to believe that they were opposed to Government. On the contrary, the tx-ibe there had done its best to maintain the law, but their blood was thicker than water, and it was on that principle they refused to give up those offenders. They had been complained against about the Luckie transaction, but what were the facts ? The Opposition in their power were in the habit of imporfing civil servants from the Home country whenever an opportunity occurred. In appointing Mr. Luckie Government appointed one who had been a very old colonist. In regard to the lunatic asylum accommodation complained of by the Opposition, to make it complete would require a million of money. They had not the funds at their disposal, and all they could do was to make such improvements

ks tney could from time to time.. . With regfruf jo the Hinemoa ha could sity that no one knew the steamer less than himself. jUjout using the telegraph for election he could show that any telegrams he had despatched on such business were paid for, and’he believed his c •]- leagues followed the same course. That state of things was not;theicasp Mffien.tiie Opposition was in office. The Opposition were not the representatives of those who desired liberal measure?,.,, The attempt last session to remove' fjr6vernniei.it had failed; and ,he would assure the House that they would be ho party" to’a coalition Government. If defeated they would go out, and bide their time. They would be prepared to stand or fall by, their party. They would simply take their defeat. The Opposition might win the day by a ▼ote or two; if so, they would find that t heir trouble would then only 'begin. They were prepared, on their side of the House, to go to a vote at once, and would advise those on his side _ not to speak any more.

Dr. Wallis—No! (He was received by the House with cries of “ Divide.) Those cries confirmed him in his determination to address the House. He charged the Opposition with perpetrating a catch to get at the new out the Liberal measures they were sent to cany out, a dissolution would have to take place at the end of this Session. The Opposition were attempting to defeat that purpose; If the amendment was carried, he predicted that not one of the measures put forward in the speech would be passed ji pn;the contrary, the legislation of the Colony would revert again to the old slow groove in which they had so long run. The question was then put—That the amendment stand part of the question, when there voted for the Ayes 43, and for the Noes 41. The following are the division lists AYES. Adams Atkinson Bain Beetham Bowen Bryce Dick Driver Fulton Gibbs Hall Hurst Johnstbh Kelly Kenny Levin Mason Masters M'Caughan ■ Mljpaaji.f.i: ; r ' Moorhouse Murray Ormond Pitt v, :- Pyke Richmond Eolleston BiBiilll*'! Saunders Seymour Stevens Stewart Studholme Sutton '‘fpkomoana Trimble Wakefield Whitaker Whyte Willis Wright 1 - -Nobs. Allan Andrews Ballance Barron Bunny Balfour Colbeck j v;-;.

v 'Finn Fisher, J. B. (Bullet) Fisher, J. T. (Heathcote) George I iT Gisborne Grey Hamlin Harm k. ' Hislop Hurst, W. J. Hutchison Ireland Loudon Macandrew MacDonald Montgomery Moss Beeves Beid Seddon Shanks Sheehan; { v r Shepherd *' - . Shrimski Speight Swanson ‘ Tainvii Tawhia Te -Where , ; ■ * Thonrtoir Tole Turnbull Wallis . v Wood ! PATE : Aye, Brandon. No, J. C. Bowen. Mr. Hall xpored— ‘ ‘ That Messrs Trimble, '■ Atfelnkbn, Pitt, and the mover be elected to prepare the address as adopted. The motion was put and carried. The address, „ as- amended, was then read and adopted." ' ‘ On the motion of the Premier it was resolved to go into Committee of Ways and Means next sitting day. THE - DUN A. Replying to a question put by Mr J. O, Brown, — Mr. J. T. Fisher said the Government steamer Luna did not on the 31st August, 1872, take away a maTTTrom Wellington, but that she brought back a mail from - Port Chalmers on the 2nd September following! , ADJOURNMENT. - The Premier said that as the House had affirmed the amendment that the Government as constituted does not possess the . he would move' ’■ that phi) adjbum tuLTuesday. This being earned, the House adjourned till Tuesday

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PARLIAMENT., Ashburton Guardian, Volume I, Issue 4, 4 October 1879

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4,783

PARLIAMENT. Ashburton Guardian, Volume I, Issue 4, 4 October 1879

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