DEPUTATION TO SIR J. G. WARD.

Otago Witness, Issue 2490, 4 December 1901, Page 16

DEPUTATION TO SIR J. G. WARD.

- 1 * ' the new zkalaxd farmers' ; ' union. s A deputation consisting of Me**!-? R. i Craig, James Ko«, D. Reid (Milton). A. Fraser, ond A. Campbell, front the Otago ; Provincial Executive of the New Zealand Farmers' Union, waited upon Sir J. G. Ward ! nt the Grand Holel on Fiiciay morning. Mr Craig,- who octpa ?■■• s^oko-jiupu, explained that .i-.-r-rai :"itrcis flire 'nought ; I'Piore t!>e Kiimvi ; union on r ! h-usi'ay eu'jiui. ond it w,^ 'iac^ccl tint ihe Of pu(iiti'iu fchouid Jay ihoru irfore Sir Joseph. The iii A matler lie v it'n v 10 refer 10 v. as a roprp-euration ihat was brought before the union ihur t\ rmck of -'c >c loaded for the show at \V\iiu.;\i - „ ~> i i.odii did not reach its do Ji-' Ul jii t-,.,'1 1] 5 at night, .lUi'ough two tivL'S 1.i.l p:."-cd through, beforo i'ae slc r1 wri-, . j j . "ii on. The cchibitcv r.at-u.-ii.y fell very ur.'cii grlc\e! afa li.'s Mflr'c being delayed .-.uc.'i a lenclh of liiri ii try-it. I\ : r Fra^cr, one ot the dopi'ti'.lioii, could al-o gi\c another c«i-?e in po^nt rejecting the- delay in transit of ttock from 1 3v, ren^e. ill- JLra«sr sakl that why.l \\n ui-hed to In ing up wa? the delay 11. r rook place vi the carnage of pobio brood nv.-'s from Lawrence to n southern di-trkl. ?l"*v- were pus in a truck, and the owr&s nxp-'ctcci, seemg they were deheate stock, tliat tLev would be sent right on, but instead of that they were shunted at some fide sto'ion and kept there for some considerable time. Sir J. G. Ward: When v .= i-? Mr Fras-er : Some time aio. I iiiiioc if; would be within the last two uinsnh-. Tiie owner j, I'otti Bros., complained very bitterly, and they told mo that they would bung it before the Agricultural Society. Sir J. G. Ward: Did they make any complaint to the stationmaster, to the guard, or to the traffic superintendent? Mr l'ra^or : No ; they were going to bring it before the society. Continuing, iMr Fraser said that he considered it was his duty, seeing that it was mentioned to him, to bring it before the Minister. It was a matter that could be easily remedied. When once stcck were put in a truck they should be sent right away to their destination by the first available train. Mr Keid said fee did not think that the • deputation intended to make complaints about thcie ifolated cases. They rather intended to cite them for the "purpose of showing the reasonableness of the interview. There might be regulations in existence in. regard to the carriage of stock, but what they all knsw was that if there were such reeulations they were sometimes overlooked. Therefore, the deputation thought that if they waited upon the Minister, and he made it known at the different centres thot those regulations mu-i be rioidlv observed in the future, tlieu there might be r.o further cause' fov complaint. Speaking generally, he had frequently seen .stock delayed in transit : but no doubt it was caused by the abnormal traffic on the railways. BuL what the deputa'lion would urge was that in all cafes dead ■ stock should orive precedence to live stock. No- matter vhether it might be dead stock . required urgently or not, the deputation would suggest thai it was not only in the intercuts of the producer, but also in the interests of humanity that dead stock should ' give way to live stock. A train should not uass a station and leave behind trucks contain ma: live stock. Mr Ross said he could not say that there were any complaints in his district. He ,just wished to endorse \Vhat Mr Reid hpd. said — that it was necessary to get stock forwarded in preference to any other clas,s of goods. Mr Fra?er said he would like it to be understood that they did not mean to ca&t reflections on the Railway Department. It was simply a matter of neglect, and if Sir ; Joseph, as head of the department, pointed out that this class of stock should be earned expeditious, he had no doubt it would be done. Sir Joseph, in reply, said that he would like in the -first place to say that he had: noticed in the paper that morning that a , communication which was said to have been forwarded to him by the secretary of the Farmers' Union from Mi Iron had not been acknowledged, and some complaint was made • about that. Well, he need hardly say that he made it a point of acknowledging all communications which he received, and his recollection was — he had telegraphed to Wellington that morning about it — that he had never f-een tho communication, except that something was published about it in connection with the Fiirmeit' Union conference. It might ha-\e bsen possible that such a communication had reached him, and hatl been inadvertently overlooked. At any late, he had telegraphed to Wellington in order to ascertain if any such communication had reached Wellington. If it had readied his hands he would cortainlv have gnen it the same attention^ a& he ga*% c to other communications. His bushier v. as to woik in the iutwcata oi all class, v:, and uofc to <ii*-

criminate in favour of anybody. Ho could only say that he wag sorry to notice that the impression should exist in the minds of anyone that a communication from the Farmers' Union would be overlooked and not attended to. That was not the case. It would receive immediate attention, of course. Regarding the matter of the conveyance of live stock, he was just as alive to the necessity for the prompt despatch of animals of all kinds as the deputation were, and be was prepared to do anything in his power— anything in reason— to see that live stock were expeditiously carried over the railways. He did not, however, think that it was a fair thing — jf he might be allowed to say bo — to have a statement made by the depu tation or anyone else of a parliculai cate.. perhaps intended to reflect upon the de' partment; as a whole, and that to be held up as the system which -was carried out on the railways. That was not right. Foi instance, take the ease of the horses referred to by Mr Fraser. He never heard .any-eom,-plaint regarding it. The head of the department said that he received no complaint, and unless a complaint were made of some inattention on. t?hj3 part of someone — if there had been inattention — it was an impossibility for the traffic manager, the , Minister of Railways, or any_one^eonnected with' the rail ways to look^inio a case of the kind- now, and say whether, thefe. Had been negligence on the part "of the 'railway servants. If it had been reported, and it had been found that there was negligence, .it would have been met in the proper 'Way, and not allowed to be repeated. /Mr Fraser said that it was two months ago, and the owners did not complain to the traffic manager or anyone else. If there had been negligence, surely it was the business of the owners of the stock to have complaned to the authorities, and they would have seen that it was not repeated. He could only say that he was pleased to deal with all representations and complaints made to him as Minister of Railways, but if general statements were made referring to particular cases it conveyed a wrong impression and an unfair one on the officers and employees of the Rail •way Department. Regarding (.he other complaint made respecting the stock for the agricultural show, Sir Joseph read the following letter, dated the 25th of November, which he said was sent by Mr H. Fulton, secretary of the Agricultural and Pastoral Society, to the traffic superintendent :— " By direction of my committee I wish to respectfully ask you to arrange to h£»e stock brought in from Mosgiel on both days of the show by a train leaving Mosgiel for Dunedin at 8.30 a.m. on the first day, and on the second day (Friday) by a train leaving -Mosgiel at 7 a.m. That all stock on arrival at Dunedin be immediately despatched to the show ground, more especially on Friday, the second day of the show, as arrangements have been made that judging should start punctually at 9.30 a.m. ' The traffic superintendent replied to the secretary in writing the next day as follows : November 26, 1901. H. V. Fulton, Esq., Secretary, Otago A. and

P. Society. Sir, — In xeply to your letter of the 25th inst., I beg to inform, you that arrangements •will be made to have stock brought in from Mosgiel on both days of the show by the train leaving Mosgiel on the first day at 8.3 a.m., and by the train leaving Mosgiel on the second day at 6.55 a.m. I note that on Friday morning the judging starts punctually at 9.30 a.m., and arrangements will be made to despatch all stock promptly to the show ground. — I am, etc., A. Geant, Traffic Superintendent.

In that letter the traffic superintendent expressed his willingness to give effect to everything asked for in the letter, and that had been done; consequently, if everything the secretary had asked for had been done, he failed to see what legitimate grounds for complaint could be made by anyone at the meeting refeired to. Mr Reid : The letter is not from us.

Sir Joseph : The letter was from the sec Tetary of the Otago A. and P. Society, who was making arrangements for the conveyance of stock to and from the show.

Mr Ross said he was sorry that Mr Buckland was not present. He brought it up yesterday. He (the speaker) was the only member of the society now present, and he had never heard of any complaint.

Sir Joseph said that it would be seen at once that a request had been made and immediately attended to. If the department bad done what had been asked surely it cculd not be expected to do any more. It ■was not fair to the railway authorities to cast reflections on them when they had done what they were lequested to do.

Mr Craig said that it was the transit of sheep that was referred to. It was after midnight before they arrived at Tahuna Park, although two trains had passed and left them standing at the siding. The Minister said that regarding a complaint ffuch as that the deputation would .recognise that the expeditious- carrying of passengers over the railways ,was just as important as the expeditious carriage of any other class of contributors to the railway revenue. Take the mail train, which would be one of the two that passed the stock: at would be impossible to stop that train. Mr Craig : We understand that.

Sir Joseph said that if he were weak enough in his policy to do that they would have an outcry all over the country, and probably from the farmers themselves. It would never do in this country") or illi 11 any other country, to keep the whole of the people on the train waiting while the engine ■was shunted for live stock. He was quite prepared to do this in connection with this show or any other show. If the traffic manager at Dunedin or at Invercargill weie advised a few days beforehand of the number -of stock that were coming to the show right along the line, and the number was sufficient to warrant a train being put on specially, !he was prepared ' to do so. It would stop at every place, and carry the stock to its destination; but if there were only a very email number of stock coming from a particular district neither the deputation nor anyone else would ask that a special train sliould be put on. The Railway Department would do all in its pc-wer to expedite the carrying of stock. He could only again assure the deputation that if there were complaints to make they ought to be made in the usual way, otherwise they never would he considered. Mr Grant, traffic superintendent, who was present, had informed -lam, with regard to the two trains referred to, that the first train was the regular one. It was timed to atop at Balclutha. and would not go beyond there, and the next was the mail express, which, of course, could not stop to pick up cattle trucks or any other trucks. The only train that could have picked up the stock did so, and that was the train that arrived at Dunedin at 11 p.m., and the stock were brought by it and immediately sent out to the show grounds. There w&s therefore no negligence nor delay

on the part of the Railway Department concerning them, while the impression conveyed at the meeting was that the deyaitment had allowed two trains to run by thai could have earned the stock to Dunedin, and negligently omitted bo do so. It iva«, not correct.

Mr Reid said that it was unfortunate chat they had mentioned an isolated ca&e, bccatise they did not come to make complaints. The point was that live stock should get precedence over dead stock.

Sir Joseph : It is the rule now all over the colony, and has been for the last two or three years, and is included in the departmental regulations for the guidance of officers.

Mr Reid : But we know in some instances it is not recognised, and a little reminder .might be-all that is necessary v Mr. Craig said the union afso wished the deputation to ask if it was possible for passengers to be allowed to travel by goods trains. Several members at the Milton conference spoke of this matter, and felt that sometimes they should be allowed to travel by goods trains.

Mr Reid said fhat they did not bring this matter forward With a view^ of getting the Government "to put on additional carriages. What the deputation meant was that in isolated cases, under certain condition — for instance where men were stranded far away from their homes after the departure of the last passenger train — they should be allowed, at their own risk, to get into a truck or the guard's van of a passing goods train. That, of course, would only be accepted on very rare occasions. At present they were not allowed to travel by a goods train, because it was against the regulations.

Mr Ross spoke of the inconvenience that was sometimes caused to those attending sales on the Otago Central line through not being able to get aboard a goods train. Sir Joseph said that he might tell the deputation that what they were asking for had. been in operation for a long period on the railways. It was not new. Mr Grant, the traffic superintendent, had assured him that morning that the regulation had existed in Otago for certainly eight or ten months, if not longer. The regulation, which was in the possession of every stationmaster in the district, was as follows : —

Passengers Travelling in Guards' Vans. — Peimita to travel by goods trains may be granted by stationmasters without reference to this office. Care must be taken to see that permits are not granted : — (a) For trains conveying dynamite, gelignite, etc. ; (b) for trains running through the Taieri Gorge on the Otag j Central line after dark ; (c) or to females ; (d) or to stations where the goods train is not stopping for ordinary goods work. — The regulation had existed fo-- eight or ten months. Tt ttated that permits to travel on goodis trains might be granted by staticcimasters without reference to the head office, but that great care had to be taken to see that permits were not granted for trains carrying explosives, and for trains running through the Taieri Gorge, on the Otago Central line, after dark. That was o«ie of the places Mr Ross referred to. It would be a wrong thing for him lo grant such permission over that line where there were slips not infrequently. It was reported at times to be a dangerous line, and running 'after dark was avoided by the department when possible. It was the duty of a Minister to see that people should not run their necks into clanger, even at their own risk. The regulation also stated that permits could not be granted tc females, or to stations where the goods train was not stopping for ordinary goods work. If a goods train were timed to run right through to its destination, it could not be expected to stop at three or four places c«i the line to enable men to get in or get out. The only exception, therefore, was that where a train was running past a station a permit could not be granted, and again on the Otago Central line after dark. As a matter of fact, there was no such thing as a passecger train running after dark through the gorge on the Central line. The travelling by permit in the guard's van was at the best exceedingly uncomfortable ; in addition to which, on these goods trains, which frequently stopped at every siding where shunting required to be done, there could be no undertaking whatever given as to the time at which they would arrive at their destination ; but if, for the convenience of people, they desired to avail themselves of such trains, the rule, as he said, existed for their doing so, and no obstacle wae placed in their way.

Mr Craig then asked Sir Joseph if he could see his way clear to make a reduction on the carriage of wool for the present season. As he was no doubt aware, the wool was at a very low price this season, and if some such concession could be made to wool-growers it would be a great boon to them.

Sir Joseph said that he exceedingly regretted the low values on our great staple product, wool. He had had under consideration for some time past the lowering of the rates on wool, among other things. He said so in the House* But there were so maeiy calls being made, one way and anotter, on the Treasury of the country, and such a large amount of expenditure was required in all parts of the colony, that it was felt desirable to hold this question over — the bringing of it into operation. He was quite willing to confer with his colleagues with a view to seeing whether they could single out wool alone and allow the others to staod over. He was quite prepared to go into the matter with his colleagues. Mr Craig thaiied Sir Joseph for his courtesy in receiving the deputation, and particularly of the information he had afforded them — information that was valuable and that would be of considerable interest to those concerned. The deputation then retired.

The following is the telegram the Hod. Sir J. G. Ward had forwarded to Wellington prior to the deputation : — B. M. Wilson, Esq., Private Secretary Minister

for Eailways, Wellington. At a meeting of the executive of the Otago Branch Farmers' Union, held here last evening, it was stated that two communications .had been sent me with regard to certain resolutions passed by the Milton conference, but that they had never been acknowledged. I have no recollection of seeing any such letters. Kindly inquire if they were received, and, if so, what has been done and why they were not acknowledged. J. G. Waed. In the afternoon the, Hon. Sir J. G. Ward received the following reply: — Have made caTeful search in your office, and find no trace of the letters referred to. We have no record of their ever been received. I have inquired of all your departments, and in none of them is there any trace of the letters. B. M- WifeSQNj Private Ssstetajj.

DEPUTATION TO SIR J. G. WARD TO THE EDITOE.

Sir, — I refused to make one of the above deputation because I knew I should not be able to be present. Certain statements were mad© to me by the owner of some sheep railed from Waiwera for our late show. Such statements, assuming them to be correct,, quite justified my action in bringing the matter betore the local executive of the New Zealand Farmers' Union. I still feel I was right in doing so, and that after reading Sir J. G. Ward's remarks — assuming always, as I say, that I correctly understand the facts of the case — the exhibitor of the sheep is in a po=ition to know whether Sir J. G. Ward's explanation meets the case. Sir J. G. Ward says the impression conveyed was that two trains had wantonly passed the loaded trucks. I carefully pointed out that no one expected the express to lift them. Dealing with impressions, I am impressed with the idea I should have done better to forgo the performance of my duties at the show, and to have attended the deputation. And, again, what impression is the public to draw from Sir J. G. Ward's telegram and the reply regarding our correspondence alleged to have been unanswered? Is the impression to be that the Postal Department is at fault? Surely the public were not to look for a solution of the matter in that direction ! The alternative inference is not a pleasant one. I say, with Sir J. G. Ward, Is this fair? — I am, etc., H. BUCKLAND. Kiatoa, November 30.