N. Z. PARLIAMENT.

Otago Witness, Volume 11, Issue 2280, 11 November 1897, Page 25

N. Z. PARLIAMENT.

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 2.

In the Legislative Council to - day the Dsbts Recovery Limitation Bill was killed by 19 to 15. The debate on the second reading of tbe Public School Teachers' Incorporation and Court of Appeal Act Amendment Bill watt adjourned to enable education boards to submit their views of tho measure. The Education Boards Election Bill and Mining Companies Act Amendment Bill were read a second time.

TEACHERS COTJRT O¥ APPEAL.

The Hon. W. C. WALKER, in moving the second reading of the Public School Teachers' Incorporation aud' Court of Appeal Act Amendment Bill, said it was only fair and generous that public school teachers tho u ld have tbe same right of appeal against dismissal as wan enjoyed by other classes of public servants. Bjr the provisions of the measure a board could plead that the determination of an engagement with its teacher was reasonable having regard to the efficient or economical administration of the board's affairs, the fitness of the teacher, his conduct, or any other special circumstances. The bill would protect the board from any limitation to its just right of dismissal. If the bill passed into law it would do no more than justice to a large class of persons. School teachers were quite satisfied with the provisions iv the bill.

The Hon. J. KELLY said that the bill would take away from boards the power they justly possessed of dismissing incompetent teachers.

The Hon. Mr SMITH thought that the bill provided a means of fettling many of the troubles between school committees and education boards. He supported the bill.

The Hon. Mr M'CULLOUGH said the bill was meant simply to define what was dismissal, to remedy an omission from the act of 1895. It had been found that the court of appeal as laid down by the original acb was unworkable, as no proper definition had been given as to what was dismissal or suspension.

The Hon. Mr BOWEN said the bill wai promoted chiefly by teachers throughout the colony, who were a reliable body of men, bub no' teacher could say that a really good teacher was in danger of losing his billet. Power must be left to some body or some person so that incompetent teachers should not be lefG in schools. He suggested that the bill should be referred to the school committees and education boards throughout the country, whereby much valuable information could be gleaned from persons interested in the measure. The bill had been promoted by teachers, who would naturally be prejudiced in favour of their own profession. The Hons. Messra B&illie, Montgomery, and Peacock considered the bill unnecessary.

The Hon W. C. WALKER said that he would not press ths bill forward until the boards had considered it. Copies had already been forwarded to &U the education boards in tho

colony. He suggested the postponement of the debate for a week.

The Hon. Mr STEVENS moved the adjournment of the debate accordingly, and the motion was agreed to.

ELECTION OF EDUCATION BOARDS.

The Hon. W. C. WALKER moved tfce second reading of the Education Boards Election Bill. He paid a high compliment to the present system of education instituted by the Hon. Mr Bowen 20 years ago, but thought that one of the weakest portions of that system was the election of boards. There were many objections to tbe present system of election. Votes were made publ'c long before th« data of election, and the votes were those of school committees and not of their members. The bill proposed that the elections should take plaoe on one day, and that votes sh«uld be cast by each individual member of committees, thus giving the minority on these committees ' some share of representation, and securing a fairer amount of representation from all parts of an eduo*ti«nal district. The bill also proposed that it should be alinosb the first (instead of the last) act of a committee to vote for the flection of mem Vert of tbe Education Board. He was prepared to defer the bill if bon. members desired further consideration. — The bill was read a second time.

MINING COMPANIES BIT,!,

The Hon. W. C. WALKER moved tliie second reading of tho Mining Companies Act Amendment Bill. The measure, he said, contained provisions as to foreign oompanies, as to sale of forfeited shares in other than no liability companies, as to no liability companies," and general provisions.

The Hon. Mr BONAR said that the matters oC detail of which the bill mostly consisted would no doubt receive careful consideration by the Goldfields Committee. He supported the second reading.

The Hon. Mr M'CULLOGH was quite sure that the bill would be found a very useful one.

The bill was read a second time, and referred to the Goldfields Committee.

At 4.10 p.m. the Council adjourned.

In tbe House of Representatives to - day, after explanations concerning the omission from Hansard of a bogui letter read by Mr Lewis and purporting to be signed by the Premier, questions were replied to, this t«k>ng up the remainder of tbe afternoon. In the evening the Estimates were proceeded with. .

REPLIES TO QUESTIONS.

Replying to Mr La»«r, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said the Government had acquired 50,000 acres of land for State settlement in the King Country, and they expected that area to be considerably increased through the operations of the Native Land Court. As soon as these purchases were completed the land would be throwa open for settlement purposes.

Replying to Mr Meredith, whether the Government will introduce legislation this session amending the Loans to Local Bjdies Act, whereby the terms for the r«fund of loans might ba extended to, say, 50 years, aud at a lower rate of interest,

The Right Hon. Bsr SEDDON said this was a serious matter which had been under the conaidsr*tion of the Government for some time.

Replying to Mr Meredith, if the Government have received a report from the Agent-general on the condition of the il*x industry in the old country, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said no report had been received up to (lie present time ; the last one to hand was iv 1895. When a report was received he should lay it before the House.*

Replying to Me Msssey, whether the Minister for Agriculture will duvet the Agricultural department to make inquiries as to the possibility of the tick plague being introduced to this colony by the importation of horses from Australia,

The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said great care would be exercised in this direction and every precaution taken. Replying to Mr Buchanan (for Mr Allen), whether the Minister for Railways will provide for cheap railway tickets for instructors proceeding from centres of population to technical classes established in country districts,

The Hoa. Mr CADMAN said ha was not prepared to m«ko further concessions iv tbis direction, but the matter was for tbe Education department to lake up. Keplyiug to Mr Bachanan (for Mr Allen),

The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said ho had no intention to introduce this session a bill to amend the Rabbit Act.

Replying to the Hon. Mr Rolleston,

The Hon. Mr CADMAN stid he did not propose to re'.nx the scale of charges on the railways for utnd sheep and other stud stock, as tho charges were already unusually low.

Tha Right Hon. Mr SEDDON s-ud inquiries were being made as to the advisableness of converting some of the <-nfcertaininer.it; rooms and concert halls in asylums into dormitories for the me of patients until permanent additions could be made to the asylum buildings in the •olony.

Replying to Mr Taylor, whether the Premier will this session submit some definite scheme to Parliament dealing effectively ■with the unemployed difficulty,

The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON said the only effectual way of dealing with the unemployed was to put them on tho land and on State farms, which was the only way out of the difficulty.

Replying to Mr E. G. 'Allen, whether tha Minister for Railways will make provision foe giving the surfacemen on railways a fortnightly half-holiday, to be arranged so that half the number of men composing the various ganga could take a hnlf-holiday each Saturday,

The Hon. Mr CADMAN said he should like to reply in the affirmative, but the lisk was too great, and the safety of the travelling public was of paramount importance.

Replying to Mr Taylor, whether the Government will this session introduce legislation with a view to placing the charitable aid system upon a satisfactory footing and for vesting it in boards elected directly by the electors,

The Right Hon. R. J. SEDDON said he proposed to deal with tbe question in the Local Government Bill by enlargmg the franchise for electors ts local bodies.

Replying to Mr O'Regan, whether the Premier will introduce a bill to make rating on the unimproved values mandatory, "■ The Right Hon. R. J. SEDDON said if the franchise under the Local Government Bill was passed it would deal with this question in a satisfactory way. Replying to Mr Taylor, whether the Government will adopt the rule recently established in New South Wales under which no recommendations for Government employment are accepted from members of the Legislature, The Right Hon. Mr SEDDON s»id it was a difficult question to say how far it was wise to go in this direction, but the matter would receive consideration. If these appointments were taken out of the hands or Ministers it would relieve their minds very much.

Replying to Mr M 'Go wan (for Mr Steward), The Hon. J. M'EENZIE said provision was made ia the bill now before the House, for

amending the Abattoirs and Slaughterhouse* Act, making it compulsory (as a precaution' against sheep-stealing) upon butchers, farmers, and others slaughtering sheep to leave the ear* marks on the skins of sheep killed, so as to preserve the earmarks, and it would bo for tha Stock Committee to say, how far the>bill should go in this direction. _

ReplyiDf ta Mr Crowther, whether th« 'Colonial Treasurer has given instructions to reduce tht rate of interest at the Post Office Savings Bank from November next on sumc of between £200 and £500 to 2£ per ce»t., Tb« Kight Hon. Mr SBDDON said there was a large Sana of money in tbe Post) Office for which there wu no investment, and ib was impossible for tbe Government to go oa paying a high raU of interest. Tha matter was not fiaclly settled, and if interest ahowed an upward tendency he w»uld sco that the thrifty of the colony got the benefit of it.

Replying to the Hon. Mr Richardson, as to what fund tfa« fine of £500 imposed on the President of the Bank of New Z«aUt>d was paid, »nd to wh*t parpos* it has be*n applted.

The Right Hon. Mr SIDDON said the fine was lying to the credit ef tU« ooasolidated fund, and next year it wowld to transferred to the revenue, as it oo»14 only be taken from the consolidated fund by a v*te.

THE ESTIMATES.

House of Representatives, £1129.— Sir R.; Stout called attention to the fact that the Hpnse mescesgers had not, received promotion in the same way ai other officers, which he considered yety unfair. He .also found that ninenew messengers were appointed i 0.1697. — Tha Right Hon. Mr Sedbon said the head messenger was too old to perform his duby, a*d another man had been appointed in his place whom he (Mr Seddon) thought was competent to do the work. He said none of the old messengers who had applied had been rejected, and, as for an increase in the number of messenger!, it was the duty of Government to see that members were properly looked after and their comfort* attended to. — The Hon. Mr Rollbston wanted to know what had become of the head messenger, who bad been in the service of the House so many years. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon :' He has been retired on a pension. — The Hon. Mr Rollbston asked what principle guided them in choosing House messengers. — Captain', Russell laid they all knew that the Premier made these appointments just as he chose, and he urged that it was a wrong thing that House messengers and other 6B\oer§ should be appointed by the Ministry of ths day,' and made to look up to them for employment instead of to the Speaker of the House.— Mr Pikani also strongly objected to the patronage assumed by the Premier in this direction, and he should like to test the feeling of the House on the matter by moving that this vote be reduced by £I.— Sic R. Stout said he did nofe charge the messengers with incompeteney, but; the Premier had appointed a friend of his own to be head messenger over the heads of five others. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon gave an absolute* denial to the statement that he had given the' appointment to a personal friend «f -his own. He should have kept tjle lat« head messenger ou were it not absolute cruelty onr aooouot.of his age. If the House desired it he was prepared to bring in a bill to put the parliamentary officars iv a proper position, and so to avoid this annual squabble, but it would be only w«8t» of time to block the Estimates in order to bring this about. He denied that the House messengers were under tho controlof tbe Government, and said they were under; the control of the Speaker. With regard to the appointment of messengers, applications w«re forwarded to him (Mr Seddon), and he daalt with them. Power to do so was given to him. by a vote of the House, — After considerable discussion, the Right Hon. Mr Seddok s*id he would give the House an opportunity of deciding whether the appointment of House officers should go back to the Speaker, as the; were formerly.— Mr Pirani said after that assurance be should withdraw his amendment. — Sir R. Stotjt moved that tbe vote be reduced by £1, a« an indication that the resolution of the House in 1693 had not been complied with and ! that seniority had not been given to those entitled to it. — Mr Taylor said that when the House gave power to the Ministry to make these appointments he felt a great mistake j had been made, and the result justified that j opinion. He hoped the Premier would give the i House an opportunity of taking these appointments out of the hands of the Government. He moved to reduce the vote of £170 for the head messenger. — Mr Hogg «aid Mr Taylor's conduct waa utterly inconsistent. He told them that as far back as 1893 he had no confidence in the Government, and yet he was elected as •> supporter of tho Premier. He (Mr Hogg) deprecated tbis attack on the head messenger.-— Mr Taylor said he had made no pledge to support auy eet of men, but he was pledged to support certain legislation, and there wa« not one of his constituents but was well aware, of the opinions he entertained of the presonbMinistry. — The Hon. Mr Rollbston poioted out - that " formerly the .officers of the, House were appointed entirely independent : of either, side. He held the House had no right to give up the control of its own officers, and he hoped it would assert its undoubted privilege! with regard to the messengeis of the House. — The Right Hon. Me Seddon said he knew there waß aa organised plan to debate the Estimates at great length. He denied that the messengers were officers of the House, and he thought it a great pffy such opposition should be shown to a> man who was the most efficient messenger they had ever had. — Mr Growther eaid the reason why this messenger received the position wai» because he was a West Coast publican, who had always obeyed orders. — Mr Meredith deprecated the Premier being made to suffer for the sins of the House, and said a large majority o£ the House bad in 1893 put these appointments in tbe hands of the Government. He was nob satisfled with the Premier's explanation respecting the chief messenger, and said appointment* to humbler positions should go by seniority, in, ths same way as higher ones. — Sir R. Stout said the point was : Why this head messenger,who had been appointed in 1894, should receive promotion over men appointed in 1891 ? He was afraid it was one of the many jobs that had taken place in the ' colony. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said all the messengers were sessional except this one, and he had been appointed, because he was a competent man.' The messengers made the House a convenience, and if they got something better to do they did not apply for the position of messenger. He had no feeling at all in this matter* — The Hon.' J. M'Kenzie suggested that the amendment be withdrawn, and said that as the Premier had promised to give the House an opportunity ofdiscussing the whole question they should accept; that promise and get on with the Estimates. — Mr Fbaser said this two hours discussion mnsb have convinced the Premier that the House was really in earnest over this matter, which really involved- the whole principle of the appointment of thote officers, and not one) particular appointment at all. He hoped tbe Premier, when he brought up this question, would not make it one of party, as otherwise they might just as well have it all out now.—, The Right Hon. Mr Seddon said if the memhers of the OoDorition Deniated in charging bMB

with corruption it waff his duty to protect himBelf. He did not wish to have it forced on him as a party question, and the proper way now would be to withdraw the amendment and wait for the resolution be should submit to the House.— (Mr Massbt : "When?") At an early date. — After further discussion, Mr Taylor's amendment was loft by 39 to 29 aud the total vote passed without alteration. General Expense*, £13,503. — A lengthy discussion took place on the question of HanBard reporting.— Captain Russell complained that he was frequently misreported.in Hansard, and laid he got better reports on the platforms in other places.— The Right Hon. Mr Seddon suggested it would "ba a good idea to bring the Hansard reporters nearer the floor of the House. — The Hon. Mr Roixeston said the Reporting Debates Committee and the Speaktr should be consulted before any proposal of that kind wera carried out. He had no fault to find with the reports of his utterancts in Hansard, as he was gererally very well reported. — Mr J'iraki thought the fault lay with members in not speaking louder. He took the opportunity of complimenting the Press Afso--ciatien for the admirable reports it sent of the parliamentary proceedings, and thought the Premier's remarks a night or two ago were very uncalled for. He assured the Premier that it was not the Press Association that cut down the speeches of member*, bat tbe aewspmpers to whom rapoits were eenfc.— (The Right Hon. Mr Seddon : "I never said it was the Press Association.") . A lengthy discussion arose on the votes for the librarian and the necessity for constructing a fireproof library — Mr Taylob moved to reduce tbe vote of £110 for the assistant night wetebmau at the House by £1, as an indication that promotion should go by seniority. — Lost by 36 to 17. — Mr JH'Guirk moved that progreis by repotted. — Lost by 35 to 25. Tbe vote Home of Representatives, general expenses, £13,508, was passed unaltered.

Class 2, Colonial Secretary's department, was postponed.

Class 3, vote Friendly Societies' Registry Office, £1110. — Several- members referred in strong terms to the wretched mtEmancgement of this department. — The Right Hon. Mr Seddon contended the societies were responsible for this state of affairs — After considerable discussion, Mr Montgomery, at 3 30, moved that progress ba reported.— Negatived by 34 to 12. — Mr Taylob moved— " That the item registrar and actuary, £350, be reduced by .£l, as an intimation that the set vices of that officer be dispensed with." — Negatived by 36 to 9, and the vote was e greed to unaltered. — A lengthy debate ensued en the vote, salary of Registrar of Consols, £50. — At 4- 15 a motion to report progress was negatived by 34 to 10. — Several, members having spoken, Mr Pi rani moved a reducticn of £1 as an indication that consols transactions should cease — Negatived by 33 to 9. — The class w&s agreed to.

Progress was then reported, and the House adjourned at 5 20.

LAND AND INCOME TAX.

A bill to consolidate and amend the law r< gaIfiting the assessment of land and income for the purposes of taxation was introduced by Governtr's meaasge to-day.

NEW MUNICIPAL LAWS.

" A bill to consolidate sni amend the municipal laws was brought down to-day. The qualification for a borough is to be en arf a of not more than nine" rquare miles, haviug no points more than six miles distant from one another, and having a population of not lest than 1000. Existing boroughs not having the necessary qualification are given an opportunity of obtaining it by an extension of boundaries or otherwise before the final coming into operation of the act, otherwise they will become subdivisions of the county in which they are situated. The franchise in regard to majors and councillors has been considerably enlarged, and extends to the caie of a householder under any tenancy whatever who has for 12 months been a householder in any part of the borough. Tbere will be a general election of councillors every two years. For voting on epi cial loans a ratepayers' roll is provided, giving one vote in respect of rateable property of an animal rateable value of £5 or of a capital value of £100, and two votes above that value. The bill contains provisions giving Government subsidies for charitable .aid to boroughs and casting upon boroughs the upkeep of hospitals and the administration of charitable aid, but these provisions are contingent upon the passing of the Local Authorities Bill or some other measure dealing -with the whole question of charitable aid. The bill materially enlarges the power of councils in relation to drainage and sanitation, and gives councils power to provide workers' dwellings and to prevent the overcrowding of land with houses and houses with inhabitants. The bill ako gives comprehensive powers as to bylaws. The me-tsuie forms a very bulky Tolume.

PATENT MEDICINES.

Mr Lewis to-day asked a question in regard to publishing analyses of patent medicines. There were, he said, two sorts of patent medicines — those which were dangerous and those, which were really dangerous. Some of the first contained drags rucb. as opium, aconite, and tartar emetic. Large sums of money were extracted from the pockets of poor people for some of these worthless medicines. He caused much laughter by mertioning the only active ingredient in a few oF the most widely advertised nostrums. The Premier replied that the member for Ghristchurch was wrong in one case to his knowledge. When he went to St. Helens recently he cal'ed at Mr Beecham's factory, where Beecham's pills were made. He bad seen the pills in course of preparation there, and he could assure the House that their ingredients were not those stated by Mr Lewis. He thought it only fair to make this explanation. He was afraid that Mr Lewis's question troold draw public attention to these medicines and that their sale would thereby be increased. He hoped he was prepared to take the consequences. An opportunity would be given to deal with the question when the Pharmacy Bill came before the House.

THE ELECTORAL LAWS.

The Premier says registrars of electors have . not been doing their duty, and the whole matter of electoral law requires looking into. Thousands of names were struck off the rolls in certain district*, and the registrars apparently misread the act. They should put people on the roll, though they did not do it. As to handing cards at the booths with candidates' names on them and directions as how electors should vote, Mr Seddon is of opinion that the law should be made very strict so as to prevent the practice. It was in many cases quite bewildering to electors, and these cards were even put into the ballot boxes. The jostling and crowding in front of polling booths should, he said, be put a stop to. Now that we had women voters he characterised it as reprehensible. «

POSSIBILITIES.

Referring to the rumours which I sent you some days ago that the Piemier is likely before long to go Home, the Po?t to-night Bays ■mother possibility talked of is an early defeat of

the Ministry. It is aaid that the Premier would not ba wholly averse to a dissolution,', he apparently holding the opinion that it would mean the political death of thoso independent members whom he has attempted to brand as traitors to the Liberal party, and that it would strengthen rather than weaken his position. It is said that' he hag been dropping hints in this direction, bub his object no doubt has been to harden up bis gradually diminishing body of followers. Besides, the Opposition do not just yet want to put Mr Seddon out of office even if the opportunity offered. The time is not yet ripe for it. Therefore a dissolution may ba regarded as among the very remote possibilities, although when the Public Works Estimates come down there may be additions to the ranks of the discontented ones in the Government following unless the hinted- at loan policy is carried out.

JOTTINGS.

In answer to Mr Sligo, the Premier stated that officers in telegraph stations on the Upper Clu^ha had instructions to report to Balclutha the readings of the river gauges iv time of flood, and he had no objection to the posting of tbere telegrams also at the Dunedin telegraph office.

In answer to tbe Hon. Mr LarnacVs question about the water conservation policy in Central Obago end other parts, the Premier slated that some reports had been received, and would in due course be laid on the table of the House.

Mr G. Hutchison to-day asked the Premier if it Wis correct that be stated at a meeting of Natives beld on the 25th inst. that "in 1896 a Land Bill was btfore the Legislative Council, and someone got hold of one of the members aud pointed out to him what a great benefit to tha Natives it wouM be if one word were inserted after the word 'lease' in a certain cUme. Ho (the Premier) felt sure that wheu this trausactton was exposed in Parliament justice would be done to the Natives and punishment would be inflicted on those who would use Parliament for their own purposes." If the report be correct, or substantially so, was he prepared to sta'e which member of the Council moved the amendment and what exactly had been its effect in the instance of the 30,000 acres referred to by him at the meeting. The Premier denied that he had used the exact words mentioned. Mr Hone Heke could give hon members full information on the matter. Mr W. C. Smith was the mail on whose motion tbe word was introduced, and it had been done at the vmh and instigation of a solicitor practising in Wellington.

The Government paid for the steamer Terranora for cable-repairing purpoies £2500. They spent another £200 fittiDg her up, and the price obtained for her when sold was £937. The value of services performed for the colony by her aro stated to be £5666, and it would have cost £25,000 approximately to have done the work by the Cable Company's steamer.

Thirty- five bags of mails and three hampers were lost in the TasmaDi*. There wera 5157 letters, 1922 book packets, 6264 newspapers, 95 registered letters, 36 paresis

One hundred and twenty-seven permits to use the totalisator were granted last year to racing clubs and 31 to trotting clubs. The total amount of money passed through the machine was £605 149 The amount realised by the Government for permits was £12,079.

Roman Catholic churches got 25 permits for lotteries during the year, the Church of England 27, the Presbyterian 3.

The receipts for land tax for the prxsfc three years are as follow : —1894-95, £280,188; 1895 96, £271.394; 1896-97, £272,309. The income tax collected for the sime three periods was respectively £89,891, £92,778, and £105,504.