MR. CURTIS AND THE NELSON ELECTORS.

Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XXIX, Issue 83, 15 October 1870, Page 3

MR. CURTIS AND THE NELSON ELECTORS.

A meeting convened by Mr. O. Curtis, ono of the repregi-ntativcs of tho city, was held in the Provincial Hall, on Wednesday evening, for the purpose of enabling him to lay before the electors a statement of the doings of the lato session of the Assembly. The weather was unfavourable, and tho Hall, in consequence, was not so well filled as we have seen it on some previous occasions. Dr. levink, who was called to the chair, having briefly stated tho object of the meeting, Mr. Curtis, who was well received by tho meeting, said he proposed to give a brief outline of the proceedings of tho Genoral Assembly during the last session. He had no idea of detaining the meeting by detailing the whole of the legislation they had perpetrated. About 100 Bills had been passed into law, and thirty more had been rejected or withdrawn. He would not go into them all, but only into a few of tho moro important, and those bearing particularly on this province. He then shortly described the financial measure of the Colonial Treasurer, for the borrowing of ten millions for railways, immigration, and other public works. £400,000 was to be borrowed for railways in tho South Island, under a separate arrangement, but it was to form part of the large Bum, although separately provided for. Not moro than £100,000 of this was to be Bpent in one year, and the interest was not to be charged to the provinces. Whether the money wns borrowed, or only a guarantee of interest given, it was the same thing, as the annual interest would have to be borne by the colony. This proposal to incur so large a liability was received by the House with alarm, for it was considered that if anything should happen in the English money market to keep back money ■while public works were going on, tho colony would be thrown on its back, and people who had been brought into the colony and employed on these works would bo suddenly thrown out of employment, and suQering would follow. It was a scheme requiring great consideration, and this the House resolved to give. Somo said that wo ought to borrow twenty or thirty millions, and get the riches of the country developed by publio works and immigration, while six or seven members opposed the scheme wholly, and voted against it throughout. Ho wished he could have gone on either of these two sides, but he could not. Many felt that there was in tho scheme what was for the good of the colony ; but it was felt that if any thing occurred to stop tho inflow of money, or any mismanagement arose in its disbursement, it would bo a great disaster. The management, of course, depended on what hands it wa9 in ; and, after a great deal of consideration, tho large majority of the House resolved to support the scheme, with modifications, and to certain limitations so as to give security for the proper outlay. The first thing was, to reduce tho sum, and Mr. Stafford and those who generally acted with him and in opposition to the present Government, resolved to endeavour to effect this, and at the same time to limit tho rate of interest. As the bills came down, there was no limit of interest and the Government might have borroweda million and got only £800,000 for it. It was agreed that the money should not cost moro than six percent, interest ; and it was also agreed that there should be a Minister of Public Works, whose duty would be specially to see to tho carrying of them into effect, and who should be advised by a Board. Tho Government came forward in a very handsome manner and accepted the modifications. They saw that the Opposition was not factious, and really intended to support the Bchome on its merits. [Hear, hear.] There was also another reason which led the Opposition to tho course it took, and that was, that it would not be advisable that the Government should go to the country on the scheme at that time, because it seemed, from public meetings and otherwise,' that there was a strong fueling throughout tho country in favour of the scheme ; and, if a dissolution had taken place, members would probably have been sent to the House pledged to support the scheme as it stood, und possibly wasteful expenditure would have been incurred. It was considered better to go into tho mattor at once, and limit the amount to be borrowed, which was accordingly reduced from £6,000,000 to £-1,000,000. Regarding the railways, it was argued that no lines should be gone on with until tho cost was first ascertained ; but it was ultimately agreed to go on with such lines as had been already surveyed. These were — one from Nelson to Fox Hill, ono from Blenheim to Picton, one in Otago province, two short extensions in Canterbury, and a line from Auckland to the .Waikato. This bill passed the Lower House, but the Upper House struck out the provision for the line from Nelson to Fox-hill, as it was associated with the larger one to the West Ooast. Power was, however, given to guarantee interest for tho making of this portion of tho line, and this might be found useful in connection with the larger scheme. What surprised him and many more, was to find propositions of this kind come from the present Government, because its present head, Mr. Fox, had declared last year that he hoped all borrowing would be stopped. Mr. Fox frankly said he had changed his mind, and that he now thought it was necessary for the welfare of the colony to have publio works and increased population. Another change of opinion was regarding the borrowing of money for Dofenco purposes. Last year the < Ministry came into office for the purpose of avoiding borrowing for such an object, and to pay for Defence out of revenue. They now declared that Defence ought not to bo met by current revonuo, but by borrowing, as it was for tho benefit of the future of tho colony as well as the present. This certainly was a rapid change of opinion. [Hear, hear.] Mr. Curtis then touched on the "Payment to Provinces Act," which provides a capitation grant of £2 each, for the first year, reduceable to 30s. by 2s. a year, instead of a share in the Consolidated Revenue as at present. This he considered a far more satisfactory arrangement, as each province can at once know how much it will get, and the accounts with the General Government will be very much simplified. He considered it, too, on approach to dissolution of the financial partnership between the provinces. He next touched on the allowance to Road Boards. £50,000 will bo paid to the various Road Boards in the colony by the General Government, not subject to appropriation by Provincial Councils. Tho question of the proposed alteration in the tariff was one affecting the principle of taxation, and was an approach to protection. Hitherto articles of necessity had been nearly free ; but it was now proposed to tax these, and first to put a duty on grain and flour. He had himself no objection to 'this duty, provided an equivalont reduction was made on other necessaries of life, such as tea and sugar, but he objected to it if such equivalents were not given, and consequently he voted against the duty. After a reference to the " Ballot Act," for which he had voted, and which he hoped would provo ub successful as its roost sanguine supporters desired, he reforred to the " Representation Act," by which Nelson obtained seven full members, as before, about a third of the member for Cheviot, and two-thirds of tho member for the Grey district. Tho Land Transfer Bill was next alluded to in terms of praise, although he thought tho fees would fitill press too heavily in the transfer of small properties. Resolutions wore passed in favour of a system of publio education for the colony, which bo trusted might be assimilated to that of Nelson ; and as Canterbury and Otago had systoras very much like that of this province, he believed that that might be effected next year. He did not agree with compulsory education, for in the present stato of the colony many parents could not afford to keep their children at school, and if it were made compulsory, the Government would have in many cases to clothe and feed tho children, as well as edueato them. He did not like a scheme like our own interfered with, and he hoped it would not bo. Tho payment of Jurors Act provided for tho payment, not of tho time of jurors but of their expenses. Jurors in town would get 3a. per day, and from the country within a distance of twelve to twenty miles from ss. to Bs. per day. Thi9 was a very necessary act. [Hear, hear.] The Disqualification Act provided that no Government contractor could hold a seat in cither nouses of Assombly, and in the prospect of large works being undertaken, this was a most necessary provision. It was proposed by some that officials holdiug office in tho Provincial Councils should bo

disqualified, but the House refused to agree to this. He alluded to the New Zealand University Act, but objected (o (he incipiant University of Ofcago being, made the University for New Zealand, and would rather see it formed as tho London University was. There was a College in London, called like that of Otago a University, and the University of London was established, aud this College was placed under it. So if Otago College, and Nelson College, and Christchurch High School were all placed under a central University for the colony, in tho same way, that would be a better course. The Act for adopting Otago University as that for tho colony was not accepted by the Council of that University, and so the Act was a dead letter. Meanwhile, all that he thought necessary was the appointment of a Board of Examiners, that should be stationed at Wellington, not to give B.A. or M.A. degrees, but simply certificates of proficiency to such young men as might desire to bo examined. Ho next referred to certain local acts which ho had introduced at tho wish of the Provincial Council. The first of these was the " Nelson College Act " for regulating the election of Governors, formerly effected under the Trust Funds electoral roll, iiow no longer in existence. It was proposed that tho Governors should be elected by Iho Provincial Councils of Nelson and Marlborough. That proposal was not satisfactory to him, for appointments of this kind entrusted to political bodies were too apt to be made from political reasons, which was not a satisfactory state of things. [Hear, hear.] Ho thought at one time that the Central Board of Education should make the appointments, but there was no such Board in Marlborough. However, the bill as it stood was passed in the House of Representatives, but the Upper House struck out the Provincial Councils, and substituted tho Governor of the Colony as tho authority for appointing Governors of the College. The second bill wus the Waste Lands Bill, which provided for certain improvements in the manner of dealing with the waste lands, and this was passed as it stood. The third bill, for amending the " Lands Leasing Act," was not so fortunate. It proposed that leaseholders, by paying double the rent for fourteen years, should become absolute proprietors of tho land, that is by paying ten per cent, instead of five per cent, on the value assessed by the Waste Lands Board. This was really something liko a system of purchase of land on deferred payments. The bill passed the Lower House, but it was altered by the Upper House, so as to change its features, tho proposal for ten per cent, payments being struck out. The' Upper House, and indeed the Assembly generally were usually opposed to any scheme of deferred payments for land. It was open to objection under a Government popularly elected. Any person who got behind with his rent it was a temptation to him to be allowed delay in payment on the way he voted, and as he had said in the case of a Government appointed by a public vote, it was a dangerous temptation. These objections he admitted were reduced to a minimum by a provision under which non-payment of rates for six months after it was due forfeited the lease entirely, and the land had immediately to ba put up to auction. The Upper House opposed that part of the bill, and it was rendered abortive for the purpose proposed. Mr. Curtis next touched on tho Grey District Annexation Bill, stating that tho Provincial Council had recommended inquiry ; that the General Government had considered the annexation a political necessity to unite that part of tho County of Westland to Nelson, and to provide another and simpler means of management for the remainder of Westland. A report by a Commissioner, appointed by the Provincial Government to report on the subject, was received, and afterwards tho Government changed its mind, and proposed to withdraw tbe bill. His opinion was asked on the subject, but he had declined to give any opinion ; and afterwards the Government did withdraw it, and in this he thought they had actod wisely, because if annexation wcro to be carried out, unless with tho ascertained wishes of the people,' there might be great difficulty in dealing amicably with them. He also thought that the opinion of Nelson Council should first have been ascertained, and that could be done in the next session. One very remarkable feature of the late session .of the Assembly, never before observed, was that scarcely anything was said about native affairs. They were not considered many days, not many hours. The great reason of this was, that the natives had been quiet since last session of the Assembly ; whether they would riso again or not, ho could not tell, but they had been quiet, and it was also felt that the Governmont had not had full time to apply their policy, and it was deemed proper not to do anything that might disturb its application. A great change had come over the spirit of the House with respect to finance, and that probably would lead to various applications from the provinces for money. Ho did not know if this province would decide to borrow, but there were one or two purposes for which he thought it would be found advisable to apply for a loan. One of these was the making of a railway from the mouth of the Grey to the Brunner coal-mine, a distance of about seven miles, and which would not cost a very large sum. In the face of the large schemes for railways of which this was part, it was deemed undesirable to attempt to get a loan for that purpose in tho last session, but it would do a great deal of good in carrying put the working of the mine. The extension of the waterworks for the town was another object. The sum originally borrowed was only sufficient to lay pipes within a certain distance ; and in order to extend the water, and provide an additional reservoir and pipes, it would be advisable to borrow in all £10,000 for waterwork purposes. Tho amount to be borrowod might also fairly include a sum of say £15,000 for supplying the city with gas. Altogether, including the railway to the Brunner mine, the amount would bo £50,000 to £60,000. As other provinces were applying for loans, it was well that we should not be behind, and he thought that these three purposes were justifiable ones, especially for the Grey coal-mine, which would tend to increase the rerevenue of tho province. He had touched on most of the points of the session of importance. The session was very dull although these great subjects wero discussed, but ho supposed the dullness was attributable to tho fact, that there wero no party disputes. He should be glad to reply to any questions that might be put to him. [Applause.] Mr. Luckie said he wished to point out what seemed a departure from sound principle in a matter which was more a Provincial question, and in fact, more a town question than of Colonial bearing. His Honour had said that ho proposed to borrow £15,000 to supply gas to the City. Now, that was really a speculation and a trading venture, aud it was against all principle of good government for an administration to go into such speculations, especially on borrowed money, particularly when a public company had already been formed to provide private capital for the very purpose. [Applause.] It was quite true that a private company would require to be looked after, so that no grasping monopoly should be permitted. But that could be arranged in the act that would bo passed, and certain restrictions as to profits for a certain period could be made in the act. The rule is that such companies are more cheaply conducted than a Government can conduct them, aud, above all, it was a most unusual thing to find a Government proposing to borrow money for works which private capital is ready to undertake. [Applause.] Mr. Curtis said he quite agreed with Mr. Luckie that it was better for companies to undertake works of the kind as a general rule, but there wero special reasons for tho Government undertaking the gas and waterworks. He looked upon it that as our town inoreased, the Board of Works, or what might follow it, should have charge of the gas and water of the town. The question of power being granted to break open the streets was a very serious power to give into the hands of a company, as it might often bring them into collision with the local authorities of the town, and be likely to interfere with the good condition of the streets. He thought, too, that if the Government were to introduce tbe gasworks, it would create less disputes with the consumers, and tend to prevent a monopoly, for there was very little doubt that thoy would have to pay a much higher price for gas furnished by a company. [Applause.] In this town the gas would be a comparatively small affair, and ho thought the gas and waterworks could be by the same officials, and greater economy would follow by tho two being together ; while tho difficulty as to disputes about breaking up tho streets would

be avoided, and the gas would be supplied at a lower price. [Applause.] Mr. S. B. Johnson put several questions to Mr. Curtis regarding the finance of tho c6\ony, tho cost of the mail by way of California, and other matters, but from the indistinct manner in which he epoke, they could not be heard. He suggested that public works in the province would be very beneficial at present, as employment was scarce and difficult to obtain. Mr. Curtis in reply said, expending money on public works was a question for the Provincial Council, which appropriated tho revenue. Mr. Johnson complained of the amount spent by the Colonial Government on salaries, and asked if Mr. Curtis was prepared to advocate a reduction of salaries ? Mr. Curtis said that the best way to begin would be for Mr. Johnson to point out what he objected to as being too high or superfluous. [Laughter.] Mr. Johnson complained of the cost of tho goldfields management, and instanced a gold-field in Victoria where there were about 5,000 miners, and not one official, and asked why the same thing could not be done in New Zealand. He afterwards admitted there were officials, postmaster, policemen, and others, and also a warden and warden's court. • Mr. Cuutis said if the 10,000 miners now scattered over the West Coast and the inland rivers could be fixed in one place, it would be easy to dispense with a number of the officials. Mr. Johnson then quoted from the previous remarks of Mr. Curtis regarding his willingness to vote for the change in the tariff, provided tea and sugar duties were reduced, and inquired what he meant by that ? air. Ccetis said he did. not object to a moderate duty upon grain and flour for revenue purposes, provided that other necessaries of life were equally reduced, but he opposed the imposition of the proposed duty on grain and flour, because ho considered that tho necessaries of life are already taxed enough. Mr. M. Lightba.ni> said with reference to gas, provided the Government could obtain tho money at a cheap rate, and conduct the business economically, it would be a good thing for the town. It was most unfortunate, however, that just as this gas company was about to be got up, the money being found' by private enterprise, and the work likely to bo carried out and gas supplied to tho public within the next eighteen months, that the Government should step in and stop the work. Ho believed that would be the effect ; for he did not believe they would get the consent of the General Assembly to borrow the money — for we had been painfully reminded by the observations of Mr. Curtis of tho kind of treatment Nelson bills received at the hands of that body. It would be nine months before the Cauncil would meet, and the Council might or might not pass the bill ; and even if it did, tho bill would also have to go the Assembly, and might be thrown out there. [Hear, hear.] All this meant another delay of two or three years. One observation of his Honour also reminded them of the slowness and procrastination that seemed to pervade all things connected with the Nelaon Government. Nearly five years had elapsed since his Honour was elected, and at that time his chief object, us he told us in his address, was to develope the Nelson coal-fields, and yet at the end of that timo they were no nearer development than when he took offico [applause] ; and during that period £800,000 had been remitted out of tho colony for coal consumed within it. And the same system was going on, and nothing was done ; and only now wo had a promise to make a proposal to borrow £10,000 for constructing v railway from the Cobden to tho Brunner coal-mine. lie was very much afraid, judging from the past, that the same procrastination and same slowness would be repeated in tho matter of the gas, if the Government took it up. [Applause.] Mr. Cuutis said that, as to the coal, ho could readily explain tho reason why nothing had been done with the Brunner mine. The Provincial Council had resolved not to do anything with it pending the negotiations connected with the railway to the West Coast, but he had induced the Council to rescind that resolution, and conditions were drawn up on which tiie mine could be let. These conditions were advertised in this colony and.in Australia, but without producing any ofi'er. Some people said the conditions wero too stringent, and he had asked such persons what conditions they would agree to. He was prepared to make any conditions that would induce a company to come forward and work the mine, provided security was given that they did not damage it, as had been done by the Ballarat company. But, notwithstanding all tills, no offer was made, and tho Government were obliged to work it on a small scale, producing only about 12,000 tons a year. Mr. Haddow read the following paragraph from tho Evening Mail : — " Wo understand that, in reply to a deputation from the Board of Works that waited upon them yesterday, the Executive have expressed their intention to supply the town of Nelson with gas, on tho same principle as that on which the waterworks aro based, and stated that it is proposed to bring in a bill for the purpose at the next session of the Provincial Council." He asked his Honour if that paragraph was correct ? Mr. Cuutis said the paragraph was strictly correct. A deputation from the Board of Works waited upon him on some money business. Ho did'not know if they said at the time they wero not appointed to speak on behalf of the Board on the subject of gas, but ho understood they wished to learn whether the Government would be willing to undertake the work. Mr. Luckie suggested that, if there were an intention to borrow money for public works, probably one of the best works, much wanted in this place, both for the town and country, would be to borrow money for tho construction of a patent slip. [Applause.] A company had tried to establish a patent slip, and had failed, and Government might be justified in doing a service of this kind to a community after the project of a company had failed of success. Seeing that capital could be provided for a gas company by private effort, might not Government leave that enterprise to them, and proceed with a patent slip, so that the two things would thus be secured ? The members might help both bills through the Assembly, taking care, in tho matter of the gas company, that proper restrictions were provided, so as to prevent the inhabitants from suffering from any oppressive or costly mouopoly. [Applause.] Mr. Cuetis, in reply, said that if tho Council would authorise the borrowing of money for the patent slip, he would only be too glad to do his best to forward both works. [Hear, hear.] Mr. Acton Adams asked Mr. Curtis to explain his sudden change of opinion respecting his borrowing of money for waterworks extension, as some eight months ago, knowing that the waterworks account was overdrawn about £2,000, he had suggested to the Superintendent the borrowing of a sum to pay off the overdraft, and to carry the water over to the Wood, but he decidedly refused to borrow more money for any provincial purpose. On that refusal, he (Mr. Adams) had gone to a considerable expense to provide water for himself. He would now like to know tho reason for Mr. Curtis' s remarkable change of opinion. [Hear, hear, and laughter.] Mr. Curtis said the fact was, the change had come not only over himself, but over the whole of the Assembly. Last year there was no chance or prospect of borrowing anything. Otago, a wealthy province, had sought to borrow the small sum of £12,000 for the extension of its waterworks, and that was opposed in the Assembly on the ground that there was to be no more borrowing, that they were to practice strict economy, aud live within their means. Since then the whole feeling of the Assembly had changed ; and, instead of going on that principle and trying to mako both ends meet, both publicly and privately, they had resolved to go on the other tack, and borrow as largely as possible 5 [Laughter.] As other provinces were going on in that way, he thought it was right that Nelson should do the same thing, so as to leave something for the additional burdens, it would have to bear as part of the colonial debt. [Hear, hear, and laughter.] No further questions being asked, Mr. Solandeks moved a vote of thanks to Mr. Curtis. The motion was seconded by Mr. Wells, and adopted unanimously. A vote of thanks was given to tho chairman, and tho proceedinga terminated.

The Wellington, Wanganui, ani> Napier Railway.— The following is from the Howie's Bay Herald of the 7th instant: — " We learn that a preliminary survey of I he Ymo is aboub to be undertaken under the auspices of. the General Government. The portion between Napier and Ruataniwha has been entrusted to Mr. Charles Weber, late Provincial Engineer; that between Wellington and Wairnrapa to Mr. John Rochfort ; and that between Wairarapa and Manawatu to Mr. Stewart, late Engineer for the province of Wellington. While glad at the prospoct of a commencement being made in a work which cannot fail to be of great importance to the future of the province and colony, there are certain things that should not be forgotten. First, these surveys are merely preliminary. Several lines will probably have to be reported upon, and plans, with estimates of the probable cost, submitted to the Assembly at its next meeting. Second, the survey will not be carried through the Forty-mile bush until tho purchase of that block has been effected. At present the natives are rather disposed to throw difficulties in the way of the negotiations, by making exorbitant demands as to payment, which are not likely to be complied with. We sincerely trust, however, that a better feeling may prevail, and the fair price offered bo accepted ; otherwise the highly important work now being initiated may be thrown back for years."