NATIVE LANDS COURT.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 2292, 28 April 1868, Page 2

NATIVE LANDS COURT.

Monday, April 27. .Before Chief Judge Penton and Heuirt Pukuatua (an Arawa Chief), Native Assessor.) The Court opened at 10 o'clock. *HE RAPAKI DIBPDH.

.Jr e ? Jud & e Baid > in "spect to the apmication made by Mr Cowlishaw on SaturSVm ?■. not Bee how he could ie,eMe the £2O untiUome decision were arrived at Zln tßof l l,ecaße ' The money would, therefore, h, T e to remain in Court. And call it: He had been thinking what it wax possible for the Curt to do £ fcJuZ some arrangement being come to; but after much consideration, he did not Bee how it was possible to do that until at least one side of the case was finished. He really did not see any possible opening for theCourtto give an intimation of its views, unless upon that [one general principle, that it was a rule of Court—a rule by which it was bound by old precedents since the Court had any existence -never to recognise claims on the ground of long-dated ancestorship, so long as modem relations could be found. He stated this at the commencement, and as a great principle he repeated it now, because it might be somi guide to the learned counsel in this case if a question of the nature which it involved came to be decided, as it undoubtedly would in this instance. How could the Court form an opinion when it had not really heard the whole, even of one side ? If anything were admitted, or the cace of one side concluded, then the Court would be prepared to say something. ' Mr Cowlishaw; Substantially, I have given the Court my case. The further evidence I will give will only be in confirmation of what I have already proved. My case is finished, with the exception of confirming it with further evidence. I think I put before the Court all I intended to prove. The Chief Judge: Ido not think it is possible that we can say anything yet. Supposing what you have stated is all true, until you have absolutely said that your case is m W ",f cannot fcX P reß3 m opinion. Mr Cowlishaw; The Court can decide on what is already before it, and'if what it suggests is satisfactory to the parties interested, there would then be an end of the case.

The Chief Judge: That is what I would endeavour to do. I told Mr Rolleston out of Court what my mind was on what had come before me, and he aaid, and not improperly, that he did not feel justified in doing anything until I made an announcement in open Court. I should be glad to do everything I couldto facilitate the matter, but to express an opinion at this stage is an impossibility. In what position does Mr Mantell's evidence stand ? Shall I write it down as evidence in the case ? Do you see any objection to that, Mr Cowlishaw ? It now stands de bene me

Mr Cowlishaw: I do not see any objection to it going in as evidence, your Honor. Mr Williams: Mr Mantell's evidence struck me forcibly that the Port Levy reserve was made large enough to include other claims which came in hereafter.

Mr Cowlishaw: I claim for a share in the Rapaki reserve, in consequence of the agreement at Kaiapoi, and the descent of the claimants from the six old men who went to reside at Kapaki. The Chief Judge suggested that issues might be prepared, and both counsel consenting, the Court adjourned for half-an-htmr. Un resuming, Mr Williams submitted the following issnes to the Court:— Are the Kaiapoi natives entitled to have the Bapaki reserve by their descent from the Ngaitahu tribe ? Are all the descendants of the sir old men and party equally entitled to divide the Rapaki reserve? Who are the decendants of the sis old men at Kapaki ? Have any natives, besides the descendants of the six old men, a claim to the reserve by occupation ? Have theße claimants to the Rapaki reserve who now come from Kaiapoi, not lost their right by fixing their abode at Kaiapoi from the time of the reserves being made ? Would the alleged agreement made at Kaiapoi, at Mr Buller'a suggestion, alter tto title to the reserves at Hapaki and Port Levy? The Chief Judge: These issues would in fact decide the case? Mr Cowlishaw: If the Court feels that it can answer the questions at the present time we could then make a settlement. ' The Chief Judge: Then I understand that Counsel on both sides agree to lsave the case on the evidence as it now stands ? Counsel rep'ied in the affirmative. The Chief Judge: It would be a convenience, almost a necessity, Mr Rolleston, if you are in a position to tell the Court what position you have here, and whether the Government would recognise your acts, in case a settlement were come to.

MrKolleaton: lam in a position testate that lam here with full authority to bind the Crown in any arrangement that is considered fair between the Crown and tbt natives, so as to come to a settlement of the case. I may state that these cases were brought before the Court in compliance with the promie of his Excellency Sir George Grey to the natives, that they should come into Uurt with their claims; and further tint the Government are very desirous that some definite line of action should be suggested by the Court in relation to these claims, if no fixed decision is come to bv the Court itself. '

tt. m ( ndge: Wllat r P ro P° se do, then would be this: Of course I should want some time to consider these questions with the Assessor, and I propose to give TOU our decisions upon them to-morrow morning In the meantime, I should like to ask Mr Mantell a few more questions. I apprehend counsel have no objection to my doing *>. Counsel on both sides consented to Mr Mantell being further examined. Mr Mantell, re-examined by the Court ■ I do not remember that any question concerning who were living at Rapaki after Ranperaha's conquest arose at that time, I beneve I have in my possession, but not with me here, notes of what occurred at that negotiation. The natives would be better able to depose as to who were living at Rapaki. I took a census of the natives livine on the Peninsula, by going from house to house and getting their respective ages, the numbers in each house, and what tribe hey belonged to. 1 he original Ngaitahu deed is in he p sseswon of the Court. The deed which I was to get executed was to render he assignment of the land to the Queen S not Son of tf h rrei em p ,Riionof th ° execution of the new deed. 1 don't think he reservewould.have been smatrthat is. 1 have my instructions with me now. W not venture to ask a the ftrW d d whuTh t » ei - ed ; * P roduce the *•« ueea wmoli I was instructed to exeeutP • it it jSSScT given to me * *«5 h ef£ th« » pr °, duc J e theins t™tionsto thflS v d these instructions] 1 made Serve 6 ?' Waikouaiti > and KiJSZ Si™ i P ?r C6 . of the NBaitahudeed, also thff i Vedtlle99lllßtn,otionß - l WHwe be Pn !?vnV eße 7 e of »certain extent has Land X^ 8 ' 1 Mr Guise Brit K Crown I never ? e natlTea of Waimatenmte. V* R re,eaße from the S dr ai**'• thaclftUB o»'Mrfiemp'« n L? dmre , gardtoM ' W S

*re ■till alive. In marking out these reserves I was obliged to give way to the natives, in order to effect an arrangement, I yielded to the natives as to locality, but brought them down as to the quantity of land the reserves ■hould contain. My impression is, that the Government neTer intended to complete the reserves in accordance with the clause in Mr Kemp's deed. The price paid to the natives was not to he taken as the consideration for the land. They were also to consider the Talue of the reserves given to them and the promise that the Government would erect ichools and hospitals for the sick, and appoint officers to look after their interests. Although itrenuoua exertions have been made, these promises have not been carried out by succeeding Governments. These promises were not in the deed Several letters have been received at Wellington, from natives, laying Chum to land which has never been given to them. Those letters have never been referred to the Supreme Court as petitions of right. The claimants do not understand Fnglish, and the lawyers don't understand Maori; and, to frame my answer M respectfully as p ssihle, it is not convenient for the Government to interfere, i believe Mr Buller's appointment referred to the Kaiapoi reserve only. He must have Been appointed under Mr Stafford's Government, by Mr Weld. I believed at the time, and reported to the effect that the reserves were Bufficient for the present and future Wants of, the Maoris. I have since believed that they are not sufficient. Mr Mantell went on to remark on the conduct of the Government in re*pe t to the purchase of land from the natives, and the makiug Of. reserves for them.

Mr Rollestou said that these remarks could l not be taken as evidence, except de bene esse. Mr Wil iams said itappeared to him, whatever be the result of this case, that it was quite obvious the native* were entitled to • certain quantity of land more than they havi got; and the simplest way of getting out of the difficulty would be. to allow the Port Levy and Rapaki residents to divide these tworeserves between them—the Government giving to the Kaiapoi natives an equal •mount of land to that held by natives of these places in the reserve at Kaiapoi. This, he thought, would be the best and fairest way of dealing with the natives on both sides. The Chief Judge: Is it your desire, Mr Rolleston,as concerned for the Crown, that the Court should express its opinion ? Mr Rolle«ton: On behalf of the Government, I should be obliged by the Court declaring its opinion on the case, and suggesting a mode of settlement. Mr Cowlishaw: The Kaiapoi natives would require a fishing settlement. The Court will take that into consideration, as it is an essential element that thev should get a settlement of this description. I presume the Kaiapoi natives would have no objection to trust the Government for the future. They might think that" a bird in the hand ii worth two in the bush." The Chief Judge: It is e'ear that it would be advantageous for the Crown and everyone' concerned, if a settlement can be effected; the Crown can get a release of that clause in the Ngaitahu deed, and have the whole transaction wound up. It would be well not to let the present opportunity pass, as so many natives are in Cliristchurcli at the present time.

Mr Cowlishaw hoped the Government would act liberally with the natives. Mr Kolleston: There is every disposition on the part of the Government to deal liberally with the natives. I am here representing the Crown, and whatever opinions may be brought before the Court, as to the action of the Government, I am satis fled that at present the Government are prepared to deal liberally and justly with the natives. The Chief Judge: I cannot doubt it. The Court then adjourned until 10 o'clock this (Tuesday) morning, when it will expresß an opinion on the case,