GENERAL ASSEMBLY. WELLINGTON.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XXVIII, Issue 2092, 4 September 1867, Page 2 (Supplement)

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

WELLINGTON.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. r;:. v" -TUESDAY; July 23, 1867* ! :'• \ ■■'.'■ INTUODUCTIO.V Oi- CONVICTS. H '.'■■;' . JTiie Harris asked the Govcrn- '■■; '.'?'' .meiit/jf it is tlje intention during the present jjv- -■ session.to introduce a bill to prevent the I into New Zealand of convicted !-i' ■ "■' 'persons'fronf thfi'Australian colonies, and tlie '■>"■. : ; '.' coldny of:Tasinania, In.doing so he wished :>"■s : tostate, for the irifortiiii'ioii of the Council, :'■■/'" the; reasons which led hiiii to ask it. For ■': - (Jeveralveara: past it had been the practice^; theTiisiiianian Government to grant to convicts; who Had behaved, well during a certain )' iperipdj-reuiission of the rqniiiindqrof their sentences, of penal-servitude, on condition ' that they did ■ hot remain in that colony. These remissions were granted under the hand of the Governor and tlie Seal of the colony, and tlie result of them Was that many notorious characters had made their appearance in New Zealand. Several had found their way to Otago, aiid had been the means of bringing that .proyince into disrepute as a place were such people could find harbour. With the perniissipn-bf "the Council he would read one of the:'documents, referred to, the holder of.which,.'though:legally at large, was* hecohld state advisedly/one of the worst and mpit notorious criminals who had ever made liis appearance:in Otagb; ; [The hb'n. member-: read the conditional! pirdou and continued.] He found by a newspaper just receiyed that : a Small cargo of such cbn.victs;had: recently teen,;landed in Otago from Western Australia, hilt-the Government thereiiad at once taken steps to cause their removal.. He; ihpuglit : it was high time that.tlie -Colonial ijoyemment took sbpie notice of thejcou.rse, tlie Governments:of-btlier colonies.for it had .always; beeu a source: of .pardonable pride to. New Zealand that the population 'lrad. no. taint, of convict blood about-: them; lie thought it;therefbrethe-dntjpf;. the.Gpurieil and of; the:'. Government to take steps." to. prevent, neighbpuring.colbnies send-' ing:their coriyicts.tda.pliice where; tosay the least/ their presence's not desirable; Thej-Hon.';Majo'r;.-'' i HignAKpsQN\Baid that it : was.:..'scarcel/. 'possible to -overestimate, the, ;L importance ;6f the subject, arid that it was: not the .:first;time ; that' the attention of the Government had,been/directed.to it. In 1861 j<■ or 1862,: tlie Superintehdeiit of Otago pressed •I" it 'ph'- : the'..notice'of the Government: of theday,;'and tlie .Gqiincil of that province passed.iwoOrdinanceei tp';fleal .with the subject; but ■:■■' jbolh had ..been disallowed.; The General Government; had communicated witlithe Imperial Government, with a view to haying effect gjyentq its wishes ■ by '-'imperial ■■ legislation, or'by ; authority being given to the Colonial Legislature.; to deal with the subject. With* tieleaveof the House,he would read the despatches; on the- subject between the Go-' ternpr and the Secretary of State- for the Colonies, and tlie reply of the j ; : - '■ Government-House, Auckland, if. ; '-; v / : 1864.

"My Lord Duke,—l hare the honour to ': enclose a. copy;of-' r membrandumariditsen■i.:;. closures; which i have received from my j' "responsible advisers,, regarding the influx of j ' : l • : -."-,;' v 'criminalV. from the;- Australian colonies into ] ■;*■;■./!. New Zealand.; t"'' j -;y,.w;-.. "2. They earnestly request the interference ' by obtaining ;an;Act of: Parliament : '• .;.; either to meet the.evil/.or.empowering;the: ,::.;. ; ; General Assembly; of New Zealand, to: .pass .;:;,.'an enactment for this:.purpose; as it appears :;.:;,i .from a report of the Judges of.,,the. : .Suprenie. ..';;;.'.:iCourt in this colony.:.that.without:Additional. ;:;;;;/powersthe.General Assembly is : npVable;tp : /y effectually oh this subject. ; ; :. : W'--- ..- ..■.:-,""'' : - :: '' v '"l:have,-&cv.'-' :'"--'|' '■' -vC',,'-:'' '.;■'?.. ; ;'v;-;"G/Gret.:'-;. ; ,;,;: : -"flis Grace the Duke of Newcastie, K.G.'''' ; '

" Dowriing/street, Bth,May, 1864.

: ;..." Sir,--I have-the ; : honor to. acknowledge: .the receipt ofyour despatch, No'. ..H, .of. the ::llth of January, transmitßhg;::a, ; bill. entitled '.' An Act to prevent the influx! of.".'criminals' into New Zealand,' together with a memo-: . randum by your responsible advisers',on" this /Subject }■■'- '..'.'■■,; ";/>":;;',;;:; '■'.■■ " As Her Majesty's ...Governraent did. not; advise the disallowance of the Act .passed to ; prevent the entrance, into Victoria of persons formerly sentenced to transportation in the United Kingdom, ..but whose sentences .had. .expired, so neither;'would .they 'now : 'advise the disallowance of a : simijar : Act, if passed: by. the New; Zealand. Legislature. ...They. :;ffould, however, see ; the passing of '.such .an Act with much regret, and they, : certainly; :could not advise that parliament shbiiid be invitedto.passa4awfor'theexpress 'purpose' of enablinga colonial Legislature to enact a provision so'-- little in accordance with. Im-;, perial policy, and which, in 'the opinion of their own judges,; is not called' for by any :proved necessity.' '.^;'':v'--' ; :.;"J'ihave(&c 7 .'''' : ; 'V-xi'-C?'.;'"'.',. ■■Eeward Catoweix. ■/ ■ -." Governor Sir George Greyi K.C.8."

The. correspondence between the General : and Provincial, Governments could be found in the Appendices■ ■for 1862-3-4; : aodLlie might.ißsy. that .the Gqyernmeht had; the; whole..subject under its. consideration, and: : had, come! to the; conclusion : that however little'such a measure as was required might bein : accordance withlmperial poUcyyit was' one which: the safety arid welfare- the colony imperatively demanded. The GoTernment would introduce a bill on an early day.!/'''/' : ■','.'• ■"'■■• .'" ' ■_'■' ■ HOUSE OF, REPRESENTATIYES. \ ; WEDNESpXTJ jDLT-24, XBTTEEyPKOMDiraEDIN,TO,THE.SPEAKER..'. . The Speaker/ : Before calling on Notices of 'Motion,' I wish.'to. communicate to the House a letter, which. I have .received from Dunedin. 'ltissigned.by A.R;Hay,.andis addressed to. the Hon.,. Speaker of.the House Of Eepresentatives.:— ■ .. "Dunedin, ißth. July, 1867..,/. ''Sir,—l have the..Honour, as chairman of 6publicmeeting, held ;this afternoon in the .Princess',.Theatre, to forward- to you the lollowihg resolution, which was put aiid carjried unanimously. '.'." I.may furtherstate, that; although there '■ Was less than two .hours' notice given of the ! meeting, the theatre was crowded, to.exceßs. : ■■-: ■■-. "Ihave,&c.y ■.. " Alexander R, Hat. "The Horn the Speaker, •-.'-.■ -"House of Representatives, ;" Wellington." /[Enclosure.]; ;''Moved byMr.Kibbald, M.E.C.J seconded by Mr M'lndbe, M.K;C.,.and carried unanimously;— 1: ;'.''■".'''.:.!:'■'!".■' > " That this meeting protest's .strongly, andinaignantlyagainsttjierecentvotepftheHousebf. Eepresentatives in. refusing to. delegate, the' ;«flual;powers under the GoldfieldsjActto,- his; Honor the Superintendent, as.it is a deliberate, insult to the. peopleoftjils province; , and further, that the'people' of this' province: will no; longer Bubmit: to siich usage, but will,. m every and any'rneani' to resist .such' un- 5 constitutional encroachment's on their representative institutions" . I think tlie,;Hoiise will.probably agree with me-that/this resolution bears upon its face ..the evidence, of .having been passed by ; <a. /meeting/hastily convened,- and acting under ...'the impulse of ah.,effervescence and.excite- ■ ■:tnentwhiub;it.is,tobehopedmay he-oniyof a temporary- characteh; •" It. is' clearly' not .J ; jrach .a..resolution, as would ue'fbrwaraed by. any person anxious for the.full developement of Belf-gov6rnmentj;and.desirous of securing, as the most effective:iiiatrumeht.to that end, ' the independence aiid, freedom hi the.repre- ■ /.nentative body of. the people. /This House);! ■.feel well assured,: will /never exhibit any - ■'■; morbid sensitiveness'; to. criticism; nor/shut', /its ears to any temperate/and well-considered! remonstrance against.iny.of iis \ proceedings,: i oil «• these are/ legitimate/ channels, ~. thereb, directly by. petition,' 0r... iniiirectly, / Hacdonaitiie columns of the Press.; / But on ■:L kindly the. House owes it ioiitself; :: ; hares,&c.-, foi' puntry which it represents, 1 that ,: butowi.gtoihi be subjected to appeals made ■i on the «' V ; d V i o ]en t ,. mi » m er, ■:. with the exception-". .. , „„ „ '„ „ „ ■ Jacket,c«nig„o^nguage„oE s;i deflance, and : : uinspWdid tnm. V. any : one.:;iir,^;e..polony , : . , , U |liat/ the v/bpeaker/vis yehicle./liy:.which/these ired to . t lie ■; Legis lat ut rb.

For this reason,.whilel .have thought it L rigiit; to inform the Iloiise. of what has happened, it is jiot my; intention to.-lay this ■ document on the tihle:pf.tho;llouse., " ; I believe, that 'in; doing'so, I shall 'be' cbnsuUiiig'v both'■ tlio wishesjof the-House,; and probably, the/wishes of the persons from ■■-wliom-.-I; have received, the resolution,...'when 'their'excitement'., lias passed away, and: ■ 'they- are ciiiihled. tp;forni; ■a temperate estimate (if what their conduct lias.been. I will not .'think ;sO. badly of any sectioii of iny fcdtdwcolorusta as to refuse to believe that their ealiner judgment.will cbn;yince,t!ieiii :th:it they have taken , ; a-steplbf wliich all reasonable, njen must .disapprove,. bite-in' no Sv.i.so; cnicuintcd to fiirtlier -their views, and, inconsistent, with all 'rational liberty: arid good 'government'. Mr 'GhACROFTAyitsoSj C:B,, ; rpse to a. point of order. He wishg.d tb.knpw if it ■Wouldbe contrary, to parliariipritary usage t,p. send tlie document, back to the chairman of tlie lheotihg,,and give iiim,an opportunity ofireile.tiiig; upoii what he had done, ;nnd of ..withdrawing such, an offensive'.'document.. If it; shpuhi : cbriie back a. second time; lie was of ppiriibri, that it ..should be flung upon the floor of ..the ilouse'for every meiiiiier 611 going out of the House to tread it under, foot. !. SCIIOLAUSHIfS FOB ..NEW ZEXtAND, Mr biLLpN .BisLp said liis. attention had been called by an ' liori.- member to. the fact that \vhilc he was absent.the. House was pleased to. appoint a. geiieral coniiiiittee to, | wiioin the examination of petitions should be: ! referred, ; ahd; ; that,' therefdre, it ;:w6nld;ribt ;be.. competentfbßliiuHbUubye. that .that petition should.bejreferred;to a select committee; He: ' would like ..tpkhbw: .wlietlier -there »nyr. ;thirig ; ,to prevent hiriif.from. moving; that'the petition; of : Mr. : ; SiinrapriS: should be referred ..tea-special^ -' The replied .':/that--.'.it7waa"vquite'; ; cbmpctent;for any: lwiiv member; to move: that; |.any matter:be; a' Select committee^. ; -Th'ere.' was.-' a ,;c6mmittee::on public: petitions,: which exainined, all pietitions;, the: House ,';r'e : . ceiyed;, but tlie duty .0 ft hatXJpm initt ee; was' more especially to examine them with refer-, encetb/pointipf order. .Any member might move-to".refer;any petition or ariy.other.mat-; ter. to Bspecial'cpmmittee^if : lie'chpse.. Mr ViiAM BELL:wduld'briefly. state the: object;lie;had 111-askliig;tlie House!to.grant a committee tb ; whoui the. petitipri might ; be: re-, ferred, a'B. that was hot. iperhap's -the •'■ fitting opportunity; to eiiter. uppn; the.gerieral.sub- 1 . , ject... The petition prayed;the House to ..irir. quire whether.''it'.would^"p't : advantageoui to the Jpublic iriterests,.of this colony that;scholarships Bhould/be; .estab-: lishecl, % means of ..'which, boysacquitting; , themselves:' : with/ ; credit;at. the .principaLeleimeritary schools of the.cpuntry should :liaye;: an opportunity of receiving the highest;educaT : tiotl which could : he given; at the. TJniver-. iitiesinEnglnnd/andof--not only gaining dis- . tihctipn for themselves, and, opening a way to;., honourable professions, but also" reflecting;' cfeditupon. the - colony by.. fepfeaeriiing.; the : intelligence apdthe talent andthewillingness' to study of .the young have been, hprh and,.{trained;::up in . the; [ colony, tlie. conditions 'on wliicli sucti : .flcholarr., ships' should be established;, arid; :the.. -hest;; means by which such..an' object '■;should bebbtainedwithout giving offence tb.the various classes in. the different, communitiesl j tod, .generally.'ipeaking;. the best mpde : by which -.effect .could, be given tp a plan pf -that sort, w.ouldrequire tlie;.'mostcareful.examinatibn. by-those who were competent hy'their, owneducation and training to. give an^opinw ..thesubject.. ,He;did:nbt.preteridiritlie-least :.tb;clasß:himself;:among jthat ; number,:and it. ;happehed. : :tiiat, it. had .ialleir to : ;him;''''to' propose-the 'subject l.but he had .desired-to jseek the assistance ;,pf thbse.whowould bb able ..to give the Hbuse advice oh. -.the "matter'j : arid ''.'.-would; decide .whether .the 'eTidenee^df■-■.the'.;p.rincipal';'ma'Btera'■:'■'■now :, 'en:- , . gagedin. education iii the country should not ;;be; takeii With the view of arriving at the best opinion on ;the ;subject. He lipped .the. House-would-grant;him tiiatcominittee,and that when tlieconimitteehad cohcluded.tlieirlabour they:would;;be .able. :to make such;a^ /recommendation to the'Hpuse as wouldbe in favour of the adoption of the.plattpetitioned for; by 'Mr 1 .. SimmoM.,' He : Vbuld.theri have an opportunity of going more largely into the subject, and urging mores stronglyUhan'he had done the'adoptipn;bf .the; plahrecemmended; but fer the 'present he would confine himself to asking for:, the/appointment of ;a;committee for? the.purpose of making this: inquiry.;;; ' "■

and. question proposed, ; Thatthe petition of jth'e Rev> F. .C); ■: mons be referred toa Select Cbmrhitteej to cbnsistofMr':'Carletbh;' Mr■ Pitzherbert,;Mr Mr iOrmohd; . ;Ke- ; port tp.be brought up oh sth.August; ..'.Three' 'fobs a quorum;"—Mr;.Dil.lbnßell. "■' fAirltßTNOLps- tbioiiglit. it'Tight'to;Btate..tiiat' hehad hot heard ..the. Biibject mentioned by. any prie inDunediii with the exception'of : Mr ; 'Simmons; ...He., did not:thirik. there,was a desire to entertain the bubjecfc;on;the : ; part of fhe public at. large. He-wasnot ;.aware.:that there had ever been an expression of opinion giventliat that questipn should : be: taken up in; the ; way. proposed; There was'brieobjec-: ,'tibn to the>petition,:. and, .that, was that... the petitioner finished 1 /by eayirig that he; auctthe; headmasters of public schools in. the ■ colony : might be.exami^ .subject of limitation^of the. competition. :for the! said .'scholarships')'.. . Was ;any.. brie to be aljbwedtopetitionin. thatwayi and to ask that he shouldibe heard .by a : Committee of the Hbuse, ; .and to be;brought here.at the ; ex-. peUae of the colony ?'He/ wqul'd'.-iie. main-; .taihed at theiexpense of the, colony,;, while ;;required to give his eyidence,; in the ./same; way.; On a previousoccasion there were :a ■■number; of gentlemen} who, were brought to give eVidencerespecting. the gbldflelds,,.and '. the whole of the evidence was: riot worth ; one I day's expenses. ; .He:'was..not goin'g'to oppose : the{appointmentof: the Committee, .but he felt.justified; in calling tie attention of the House to the facts; : ' --:,:..

■Mr had not .heard any arguments whatever from' tlie/hon, :member 4 for the city/ofDunedin. If his : et^tement;waa to be accepted/as the opinion •■of /the people of Dnnedin—that they/were hot in. .favour: of educatipiirrlie (Mr ..Haughtoh).'. .hoped /.the ; future constituency would bei different /from the present one. He hoped; the House would: !riotohly : accede to the;; prfipoaition of/the hon.. member,but shew'that:'any.gentleman comiiig/with a petition, and moving, in.the. 1 : rightdirection,: would receive the attention of the House./"' ! ■ ■ ■ ;/;■■ . Mr : PATERSON .should !be sorry, that'.-the;, opinion wasentertained-/that/the,! people!'of.D.unedih were inlifferent to ,',' the.cause -and : adyßnceiiient of education. Sueh a statement, coming/fromone/who/professedto represent: thepeople of Dunedin,.was very unbecoming./ He would bewanting.inhis.duty/ to the constituency : ,he reprc ;such,a statement ;t6 i .pasß.'.urinbticed-7'that''tlie:' !itihabitants,qf ! Dune^ had given no expressiqn;to their npihibns regarding, the advantage of superior education in .their province.-.Their whole movement in, that direction shewed that they were anxious to promote the/best'interests of educational reform in the country'!,; "He hoped the House would at least give/a calm'consideration"to the proposal nmda iji the petition.; When the committee broughtup 'theirrecommendation; as to what should !be done, that would be the time tpiobject to. anything proposed;. It would' be : well to grant the. committee, for the'.,purpose required,;. ■;';■; //«' !/!!!/:' V -v/!v! ■-'■■ : '' /!. Mi; Reynolds said the lion, member must have/misunderstood:biih/if he thought'he had stated that-tlie! people of Dunedin were not in -favour of --education..' There had been! no erpression of "pitliijc. :|)piivion/as! to the ..desirai bilitj'-.pi carrying, n'iit'.a BchemeJßuch.a's that suggested by; Mr ,Simmi)ris/. ■■/;-■ :■■*■:.; Mr MACANDiiEW/wiiuidsupport.tne motion, !and felt proud tiKtliiiik that, the proposition! should, have'emanated' from tlie province!with 'which/he h;id.l he honor'to be' connected-ra : province wiiii:h Wf,B/secomito none in the extent and. efficiency of/its!educational institu-

.tions.::ln;OtHg(t ) witli;all their faults, failings, and■■shortcomings/ liiiii notwithstanding the sneers they< : had succeeiie'i}. in getting oyer the difficulty of establishing 'a':-coiiiplet.eisystem of national; education—a;»);•! tern whielrwaßtaken/adTan-.-tage. of ..and'recmrniseiTJiy; aU/:creedsYand' ,denomination.'''. ■. Witlrreference"to the ques-, ■tioii before tlie M ; use; felt'perfretly iissure.dUhat it ; ;the;hoh.;rnem- : ■ hers on. the ilinist'orial Benches, did. not sue-

; ceed in wallowing up the province of Otago, and if the opinion of the Ilpiiao and the .colony;did riot approve of carrying out the .-proposition ; fbr itself; tlio province of Otago would do something of tlie kind on! its owti ■belialf. He thought it right, to state, while lie had no desire to detrait the 'honour., due. to Mr Simmons for/bringing the niiitter, ■fonyardjllint the lhprit of origiiiatiiig it beldiiged.t'i)Mr I.iislo'p, Inspector of. Schools'/' Otago, lie held in his hand a report prc-pi\r.cd-.hy;,thftt.gentlcn\rtn, in which lie alluded to the matterl In explaining the system of .educatioii. carried, out ;in the .iieighbimrmg .ciplqny.; of Tasmania, aiid rccbnimuiiding the Government lo'carry put a similar, scheme in Ota'gp, after..descriliiiig thesdieme,he,says:-r. "A. scheme of this nature, however, coiild. be much better taken up by the colony as.a. /Whole,4han by single provinces; as its opera-., tipri's could then, be extended .to the whole of the colony,, and would thereby incite, to wholesome rivalry npt.only individuals and schools/but also the several provinces, It is to be. lipped that -the day is not.far distant when, our colonial statesmen will be able to devote some small portion .of their time, aiid energies to, the consideration of, questions sneh. as this, and: that they will ere long adopt measures.to secure tlii»t,,.in every siu> ceeding, year, Ttto Great Nm. Zealand Scholarship^skM also be/open. for. .competition tp.all the youth of.the colony ;.;and that, after .the -first, eight scholarships shall. have., been'/awarded, there sii'iul always be eight, of ..the.most prrMeht.pf the y.oiith of New; : Zealand /receiving: the advantage of. a liberal education at the seats of learning in the niother/cbuntry." He .beiieyed. .that to be the origin of the present;-petition, and he. had much pleasure in supporting the motion. With regard to the names, lie had nothing: to say against ; any of them. He beiieyed they were alLyefy competent; at the same time, .he thought -it wbuld::perhaps have beeiirweU if the hoh. member for Mataura liadineiudei some of :the, members for Otago, who had taken.a great interest in the question of edu- : cation,; and to whofti that province was indebted: for the existence of its high .school. ; ;Mr.YoGED tbok.tiie petition, to mean .that the;perfecting, these .educational institutions was brie. of the purposes to which provinces were't6:devote;their attention and resources. It .was• jwell.. and. right that any province should cpine forward which was lavish in, its encouragement, of, .education,, to ask the colony, to encourage emulation, amongst the provinces.by a colonial recognition. Otago members .were very proud of many resources of which they were apt to, Speak, hut. there was no'result of. which they would be more ,proud, than the -largest number of youths clainiirigjdistinctioh, from the. colony should come from Otago. They should recognise : the to mean that the General, . Assembly.ahbuld recognise the functions the prbyinces had. to perform, and to encourage emulation; among the provinces .and-encpu-fagereach:to do its best. It would be a test to see which province performed its, duty in respect to education ..in the highest degree. He beiieyed that -the petition had beensent sblely ; witii the desire that there should be.a spirit ,^of .emulation encouraged amongst the different.provinces Of New, Zealand to see which/one carried educational institutions, to the highest ppssible pitch. He expressed the hope; aß.:.a member for Otago, that, future years .wbuld.shew that that province, had/held its bwhif tlie course proposed were adopted;

Mr Eitzhbebeet said.it must.be a matter of very.great congratulation to, the'-House-that a.recbgnitibh-had, beengivenby the.two. last speakers to the fact that there were subjects'in-. New Zealand which could be dealt withbyi the colony as a whole; He was exceedingly glad,.also, that one of those was a subject, that no one of a reflective mind, who had watched New Zealand.for the last quarter.of a century, as some of them had, but must have taken the deepest interest in at the same time that his mind must have been filled with a greatdeal of: apprehension for; the future. He also congratulated the h6n.;member'for Mataura' that he hadbrbught I forward" the motion. He also thought the ■ House owed' a debt, of gratitude to the Rev Mr Simmons for" having forwairded the pe-. titipn,: and having/ caused Hie attention of ■ the,Hpuse ..td,be:directed...to 'so important a' subject; : He cbuld ■only say that his. humble /.services wre entirely at the disposal of the hoii. member on 'a subject regardirig which, more. : than?any-bther in New : Zealand, heshould be glad to .reflect that he should have afforded: Some little aid in bringing to something like an.effective condition. The subject had often been talked about, but no one ever,yeyiad ; yentured to bring itforward in substantive shape before the' House, It was -utteriy impossible for this or any country to.; carry on successfully represeneative.. institutions without their youth: were educated in a superior -manner.- If that applied in other countries, and it was: an axiom ho one could ::deny--if -it was applicable: in other colonies, much more was it so in the colony-of New Zealand, the problenvpf governing: which was more complicated probably than in any other modern colony. .'■■'•' \Mr Carleton. could hot allow the subject to drop without saying one ortwo wordsupon i it.-- Toevery attempt that might; be.made to promote; the -education of the- people, he ' should ilways give his steady adherence aiid ; 'add.his.ppPr services whenever they might be required. : ; -Hei took, on those matters, a somewhat political'' Y'bw. Ho would say that/ the stability of their institution's for future time, depended ■ upon the education of the people. ■ With an uneducated people,-' demo-; ;crati,,Btump-bratbrßi and thpse.whpwished to sway, the people for - their own motives—motives;'that, might be only'known, to. them-selves-frail those would-have' power among a, .people- so long as. they were uneducated;. Educate thei people, and the .power of ;the; .''demagogue.'-was'- gone ; the people, .would act above him;.' instead of booking -up to- him, they would: look down upon :him, They would exercise their. reason, ahdhot give way to popular, ebullition or popular/feeling, such as; they had an. unfortunate.; instance;; of brought ■: under.-' their notice..that day. They would beconie reasonableibeings: they would, confer: willingly with those . who, by. accident or fortune; might ..have been .placed; in aposition of re-ceiving.-a higher education than themselves, He supported the resolution uppn:a political point, and withregard tothe.f uture stability ; of. the institutiops of the country.. I.Mr; Ai&,Atkinson heartily approved of. the object of: themiptibn, and wouhlKsuggest ;tp the;mover that he -had omitted one usual power required; A. name or two might' be added.'to the.committee by the mover of: the .resolution.;.. ■ ''.;;..Mr,;'..jDAHPßEi;ii''.wo.u!d ask.that the com■mittee': should take into consideration- the establishment of a University for New.Zealand, for ttielpurposebf giving an advanced education 'to those' scholars in various schools :wh'p7were^^ , sufHciejitly..advanced : ; in;.educatibh toi'.'enable them to take.advange of it. ■'. fMrcJpLUB f Bftid, it .would .'be desirable to add'otheriiames'tb the committee.. He was. himself already :6n ■ the Public Petitions and. Waste Lands Committees, and; might therefore clainvexemptioh from serving, on this committee, but he: \ypuld be happy to give ariy;aßsistahceliecoiiid: to the gentlenien.bn ■the committee..: :He thoughtampresuitable: person than himself might, be -.put upon the . cbmmittee, : :but rib prie would be taprejwilllrig to do what lie '..could for the furtherancepf that object; lie agreed with the;suggestion that it;would. be desirable, that Utagb: should bel represented:oh the{.'committee.. „He. 'would.', submit that his. name be struck ; out and >nbttier.gentleinan.fronV that prpyince placed on the committee,

HkllJii. replyjexpressed the 'verygreat ; stt&faetion lie.felt at : the pected assistance afforded ;to. him bythe hoii.; member for ; tlie city of Diinedih (Mr Jiejyholds).'lt could.Hot be olherwise,'thaii 'satis-; ;factory. : tq.;hinv :to; find,.that that,hoti. mem- : ber's : . objection; B.iiiiiiid : . liave elicited express sionsof opinion on,ihe.part of boa,members .favourable(to; ; tiie (ilijeiit he had' in view in bringing forwiiril. surli. a motion,:. He ; had not.gotie into itlie. subject itself, feelingibiti the first stf-p. t<>.lab.-wii.ui'i telto ipake'some .preliminary;,-inquiry ami ,to. obtain the...eyi- : de»ce of islulleiL persons, to. assist the House; in coming to a' i'iiir.eohcliisioa. .He was surtli.e ji-raarks of 'the., lion, member.fur D.iinuiiiii Unit (here had been no expression of ojiini<-,n on this subject, for, as

Speaker of the Provincial Council of Otago, he ■■must. have been awaro the petition, bad coine before the Council in ail official form. He had intended to refer to. the service rendered by Mr llislop, and the claim he had to bo the originator of that particular proposal; but he had not •done so, ■as his only object was to take the preliminary stops for 'obtaining an inquiry. He was glad toseeilie iiouse was favourable to the subject,and he'was-glad to sec that any opposition to it would take a different form from that which the lion, member for Duiiedin was: inclined to'.take. lie had no intention to limit ihcliiaiiies on the committee to those put down by, him. There would bo many men who would come forward aud volunteer their services ard assistance on the committee, and'he was much obliged to the lion, the Colonial Treasurer for having referred to -the" subject in the manner he bad done, llehivdparlieulnr reasons for bringing the matter forward; quite apart from the interest he.niiturailyfeltin the promotion of education itself;. lie. felt a deep debt of gratitude to Otago for the'liberal means of education it liad provided ;; and it was with great satisfaction'' that, as a resident of Otago, he brought forward the subject, which would beipf great importance to the future of this colony, Motion agreed to. FINANCIAL CONDITION OF THIS COLONY. Mr Vpjsbl.;"l will not detain the House by going at aiiy length into a statement of the reasons, why I ask for this committee, beeiiusefl■apprehend there will not be much opposition to granting it. I may say at once that I do. not expect, and I do hope that this will not be made a Government question. I do.nqt saytlus as a mere conventionality, for I thinlc: there;is good reason why we should ,not desire this, to be made a Government question,, because I am firmly of opinion that, no matter..what government might be in office, jt would be desirable to have such a committee as lask for. I hold the opinion tliaty no matter, what section of the House the Government might proceed from, it would be desirable that such a Select Committee ; should be appointed. I do not express this view but of any tender feeling, or the reverse, for.the'-Government, but I think that we may look to: the peculiar condition of the colpijy.as a reason for the employment of the particular.terms in which the committee is asked-'for,' The resolution aims substantially at two.purppseSj.one is to give the provinces of the North Island control of native affairs j the other is to have a settlement of the very entangled state of the finance of the colony and of. the proyihees. I will say a few words in reference, to the first object, that relating to the management of Native affairs, proposed to be.given to the people of the North Island. Sir, ijo'. not think that hon. members cauvshut their eyes, no matter what congratulatory address may have been passed during thia and other sessions, to the treatment of Native, affairs. Wo cannot say that it lias been a success. We cannot say, when we come to look at the sums of money lavished oh native affairs, that we have had an adequate,return for them. When I first came here as a stranger to the colony, I cOuldoiily form a superficial view of the state of Native'affairs. As far back as my memory pan.carry me, the position of Native affairs was tlieh. nearly similar to whatlbelie'ye it to, be now—that we have to deal with a very turbulent set of people, and that we are constantly liable to an outbreak. I believe that' wo must deal with them as circumstances may demand. I think the war. as it has been carried on has been a mistake, and that if we look to what was the case when the war commenced we have made but little progress. The despatches written before the last war broke but are hot dissimilar to those written how. .There was the same relation of disturbing incidents, the same general hope for the best expressed. What progress have we made? .We have progressed in the policy, not of self-reliance, but of letting the natives alone. We; have' come to this: to hear with more'composure than some time ago of very sbocking,,murders committed by nativessuch murders iis : were committed a few days ago.. .Those murders do not now occasion the same amount .of-sensation in this House or in the colonyJwhich they would have occasioned three years ago. There is a consciousness that it was a mistake to go to war with the natives, and that the settlers are necessarily exposed to risks,-and there is a feeling that we must, cut pur cloth according to our measure; That is a homely proverb, but its ;adoptibn : is : hot .necessarily humiliating; for the most powerful countries have come to admit-that they cannot always stand on their and' that there are occasions when dignity must be; set aside in obedience to expedieney. Ido- not think it necessary to refer to- the circumstances of the last few 'years; but. -thisi.policy of expediency obtains in countries more powerful than this colony. I wish todead, the House up to this point, that in dealing with the natives the most successful treatment is that which is most 'Jbcaly'is': that where.the interest is most immediate,and .where ..there is the most intimate acquaintance with local wants. I think that to have so much to do with war;. I think we should have thought : more :6f diplomacy than we have been accus,tdrned:to!/do,andlesß about arms. We ought ;alvvays, to have, endeavoured not to allow that .the quarrels which arose :were quarrels; between races. We should ■have endeavoured to enlist upon our side the ■powerful section;of the natives who were ■• interested: 1 in:preserving law and order. I may be told that this has been done. But I contend that we are not getting a substantial return -forthe .'expenditure the colony has .been put to,and;that we have no substantial guarantee that there may not be at some future time agtneral rising. The only guarantee we can have is by placing the control of Native affairs in.local hands, and getting that supervision l which only the local authority'can bring to bear. I believe that the Defence Office; and the Native Department haveniadethe difficulty we have to deal with, ll.believe. there has grown up a condition of ■affairs, which,not : to put too fine a point on it, |;has; ; kept,up ; tnetnative difficulty—because so many, people live by it. I contend that the natives : shouldbebrought under a government similar to that which obtains in other portions.of,the colony. I feel a difficulty in speaking upon Native affairs, because I am not able to ; bring.to the subject that expe■rience which 'many hon. members of this Housepossess; ; Butthe looker-on, it often happens/sees most of the game ; and I think if we had brought to bear upon Native affairs :tlie : :same judgment and moderation that are to.bear in the management of other affairs,the colony would have been more suc;cesßfiil;;ia i dealing with them. I remember his: Excellency the Governor, in one of the despatches;he,wrote just before the disturbances .-at; Taranaki, pointed out that he thought ;it a; mistake to have anything like an army in the, North Island, and that we should confine; ourselves to a police-force, armed, if ,:neceßjary. That view has been enunciated more than once by the Colonial .there has been no practical ;.end arrived at. There have been colonels ;and-;captains,but;there has not been that kind of .force which it should have been the first, object.of the Government to enrol. I do /not wish.to attach any blame to the Government in the matter. I think they undertook more than: they were in a position to carry out. - The provinces of the North Island can ' do -what.the provinces of the Middle Island have; police protection. I think tlie.time has come when we should give '■than;; what ''-unwanted—the management of their .own .affairs/ If a self-reliant policy ■means-anything; it means that the residents .of:a;p|ace Bhould;;have the management of their own affairs.';; There is no self-reliance in substituting one portion of the colony for the mother'country, and saying that the Middlelsland is to :be the banker. If there ■is Jo; be. ia, self-reliant policy, the provinces imust be made, responsible, and have the control; of, their; own affairs. I do not wish to force" it on tho Nortli Island, but I think it ig a boon which they are only;;too anxious to obtain. They say they "owe: no gratitude for the assistance wliich;.is; given them, and which they, regard rather as a burden than otherwise, when .accompanied with the interferencewiiiekthe!Middle Island makes a condition of/the assistance. I think this time is

ripe for an arrangement, when tho management of native affairs should bo vested in the Provincial Government of the North Island. I think it is an arrogant assumption on tho part of any one to say that they are not able to manage these affairs. All that we havo seen leads to a contrary conclusion. I believe and assert that many provincial operations and negotiations which have taken place with the natives have been morcsuccessful than negotiations which the General Government have carried on. Tho Superintendents of provinces and the Provincial Governments have been more successful in their treatment of the Native raco than the General Government lias been. I believe that is not on account of relative ability, but on account of what is inherent in the relative positions they occupy. The first portion of my resolution has for its object the bringing together representative men of the North Island, with the view to see whether they are not in a position to undertake the responsibility of native affairs. I will he told about there being no guarantee. Technical difficulties may be in the way, but I will put them aside altogether. There were technical difficulties in the way of the delegated powers over the goldflelds j at the same time a system of delegation was established winch had been found to answer until it was interfered with. So in other matters in which nominally the General Government could not divest itself of powers, provinces have been virtually able to exercise such powers with great benefit. I am not about to say how far it is competent by statute to make over the control, but I take leave to think that this House can give to the Northern provinces a large, an absolute control, over Native affairs. I now come to that portion of the question which relates to finance, which underlies both sections of the question. Sir, I think that a Select Committee is necessary in reference to finance, because I am quite certain that lion, members are not aware of the condition of the finance. I think it is highly inconvenient and awkward to have discussions upon which we never come to any practical conclusion. By the time we begin to understand the state of affairs, the session draws to a close, and it is too late to do anything. That was practically the fact of the three last sessions. I contend that the provinces are not sufficiently aware that the finance is gradually contracting on them, and that they are divested of a large portion of the means which they suppose they enjoy from the General Government. I will,'take the accounts of 1865 and 186 G. I will remark that we are a vear behind in these accounts, I do not think we can accurately judge of the financial state of the colony if we are always a year behind in receiving the accounts. I think that some further particulars than are contained in the financial speech should be given to us. It has been the custom in this House to talk about the three-eighths given to the provinces, as if they were really receiving them as grants, not as loans. I ask hon. members to look for a few moments at the question, bow much the provinces received for the year 1865-6—that is, how much they were declared to be entitled to, and they will see that it is simply a payment on account, and at most a loan. I find that the provinces received on account of 1865-6, £176,612. That is what they really received on account of the year. There was another payment of £112,000, but that is a sum which was due to them before the commencement of the year. In addition to three-eighths, there was owing to them £112,000. They really received only £176,612, and, Sir, they were brought in debt, on account of the receipt of that sum, as overpaid, £36,000—1 leave out the odd figures —and there was a supplementary expenditure of £t;i,ooo, making together £97,000 for which the provinces were declared to be indebted, and which had to be taken off the £176,612. That leaves in round numbers £BO,OOO, which they are declared to be entitled to on account of the year's services,—£Bo,ooo, out of a revenue of £BOO,OOO, and instead of three-eighths it simply amounts to one-tenth. I ask hon, members if it is not a serious thing, so long as the provincial system exists, to find the provincial means brought down in the way 1 have shewn? I might instance a great many things to shew hon, members that it is necessary there should be an examination into •the finances of the colony, because I undertake to say I can state a great many things of which hon. members are not aware. Are they aware that under a clause very quietly introduced into the Appropriation Act-and here I will say that I do not think it right that an organic alteration should be made by the introduction of any clause in an Appropriation Act at so late a period of the session that there is no time to think about it—by a clause introduced by the hon. member for Nelson City, it was stated that the savings for the year 1865-6 should be credited to the next year's revenue. That was a direct infringement on the Surplus Revenues Act. The hon. member for Gladstone came down with his financial statement and took credit for £33,000 on account of the savings of the previous year. The House would not have it —it did not care for the clause, but considered that it was not right that the Surplus Revenues Act should be repealed in that way, and it was one of the causes why the House disapproved of his policy. I think I am right in saying that the hon. member for the Hutt, the Colonial Treasurer, when he made his statement, after succeeding the member for Gladstone, did not refer to the surplus as commencing the year; but I am open to correction, and as the hon, member is so very severe upon remarks I make occasionally, and gives me credit for intentional misrepresentation I should be obliged if he will state whether I am right or not. I looked into the matter very carefully, and I do not believe he ever said we had any balance to commence the Government with. Now what do I find ? That this clause has been used in a manner in which I never for a moment supposed the hon. member to be capable of using it. It has been used not only in reference to the general but also in reference to the provincial expenditure, and this absurd anomaly has been brought about, that where any money has been saved by the provinces, the provinces have been actually charged with the saving. There are a number of instances in the accounts, and my remarks apply to every province in the colony. In the postal department in Napier, for instance, there was a saving of £399. That was charged to the province and credited to next year's general revenue, instead of the province benefiting by the saving in the expenditure; and some of the provinces have suffered very severely. In Canterbury they were fortunate to effect a saving in the customs of £865, but it was charged against them just the same. What does such a course lead to ? It leads simply to this, that it encourages treasurers to ask for much larger votes than are actually requisite, or than are likely to be expended. The result of the course I have spoken of was a saving of £33,000 on the year j and instead of that sum being left for division amongst the provinces, under the Surplus Revenues Act, it was carried on to the next year's account, whilst, to make the anomaly more complete, the unauthorised expenditure was charged back against the year. In Otago the saving was E9G7O, and instead of the province benefiting by it, it was charged with the whole amount, and was so made a debtor for that sum to the next year's revenue. I don't think hon. members are aware of this, and there are many other points which I might mention, although I take no credit to myself for them. I have noticed the facts simply because I take considerable interest in the subject. I believe hon. members are not aware of many circumstance s in reference to finance matters; if they were, they would see how absolutely necessary it is that a more satisfactory adjustment should be made in order that we should know where we are and what should be our future system. I wish it distinctly to be understood that in the proposed investigation I desire to see the adjustment made according to the relative positions of the provinces in reference to their debts, and I do not propose any scheme by which any one province shall profit at the expense of tho others. I think that in the adjustment of affairs whatever new system may be initiated we xhould wind up in accordance with the present system. 1 do not include in that the interference with the Surplus Revenues Act by the clause iu the Appropriation Act. I think, considering we fought upon the pro- , visions of that Act all the session through, it

is rather amusing that it sliould have been virtually repealed at the end of the session by the insertion of a clause framed, I would almost venture to say, by ray lion, friend opposite, There aro a great many items which a committeo of this kind would have to look into. I say the reason why the funds of the provinces are contracted in the way they arc is simply because they are charged improperly witli what should have been charged to loans. When we undertook the large policy of 1803, it was understood that in making the revenue liable for the interest on the loan, we were to be relieved from other payments of principal on account 'of the quarrel with the natives. I think that the charges upon the revenue for defence purposes, especially during the last two years Bhould be recouped. Then there is a sum of some £GO,OOO which has been charged against the provinces for the removal of the seat of Government, Now it was a distinct understanding that the expenses should be thrown over a long series of years, and not entirely on one year. I think if 1 brought up that question separately, I sliould have the support of almost ovory member. I think that that amount should be recouped to the revenue and charged in the manner originally contemplated. My lion, friend the Premier was very much opposed to the removal of the seat of Government. He said," I will make them feel what they are doing." The lion, the Treasurer proposed to charge the expenditure against loan, but said the hon. member for Nelson city, " No, you have removed it, and 1 will make you suffer for what you have done," and so he charged the amount to revenue, I say that in the adjustment we should ask that that item be recouped to the revenue, I will not detain the House with other instances, as I simply wished to shew the direction in which the inquiry should be made. The committee, in framing measures to relieve the provinces of their present difficulties, should ascertain what amount might be made available for their benefit. I shall be told that we should wait for the policy of the Government to be declared; but so large a question has to be dealt with that the whole session is not too much ; and if we wait until we receive the financial statement, we shall find that it is too late in the session to go into the question. That is the reason why I have thought it desirable to bring the matter forward at this early period of the session. Hon. members may ask me where are the sources from which we are to make the recoupments, and in what way are matters in reference to the North Island to be arranged satisfactorily ? I believe that the operation of the consolidation of loans will be a very profitable one, and I believe that, whilst we are about it, we might borrow sufficient money to relieve us from our difficulties. I will go further, and allude to a proposal made by the hon. member for Westland (Mr Moorhouse) some years ago—a proposal which I then disapproved of, but which I have lived to think was a far-seeing and statesmanlike policy. He said:—When you find the money market in a good condition for obtaining loans, it would be wise to borrow in advance of your present wants,— and he pointed out and shewed how money, being much more valuable in the colony than at home, there would be no difficulty in borrowing at a rate which would leave no loss until the money was required for use. Hon. members hear a great deal about the depression of the times, and what does that mean? It means that the requirements of the Government have been competing with the wants of the people, and that there is a want of the capital necessary for industrial pursuits, and any measure which would have the effect of causing a reduction in the rate of interest would give an immense impetus to the whole colony. I believe that the profits resulting from the consolidation of the loans will enable us to carry out any recommendations of the committee, and it might be made an instruction to them to state whether it is desirable to go beyond our immediate wants, that is if the committee be appointed. Hon. members may ask me how this comes to bear on the whole provincial question? My answer is very briefly this, that we are about to consolidate our loans, and if that takes place without a formal agreement and arrangement between the different provinces, there is an end to provincialism. That agreement cannot be come to except by a select committee. Whenever any resolutions have been introduced, it has been the custom to raise a question upon a matter of detail. When the question was brought on by Auckland last year, the Hon the Postmaster-General, acting after the manner of an auctioneer, said, " What do you want? Will £IOO,OOO suit you, or £150,000, or £200,000?" And it is these questions of detail which would interefere with the principle upon which any arrangement could be made—that is, any arrangement which might do away with the ultimate necessity for separation of the two islands, or which might lead up to it. My remarks have taken up a longer time than I thought they would have done, and I may not have expressed myself as clearly as I should have wished, but the time is so late it is necessary I should conclude, and I would merely say that any hon. member, putting aside all party feeling in the matter, must admit that a great feeling of dissatisfaction and irritation is prevalent throughout the colony, and the necessity of making some new financial arrangement is absolutely forced upon us. I do not think any better means for coming to an agreement can be devised than that I have suggested, namely, the appointment of a 'Select Committee, and therefore it is that I have proposed it. If the resolution is worded in a peculiar manner—a manner which the Government may not approve—the Government should recollect that the circumstances are peculiar, and I consider that the Committee will be desirable, no matter what Government is in office. I hope there will be no objection to it, and that the Government will recognise that I have stated nothing which would justify them in refusing the Committee I have asked for.

Motion made and question proposed," That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the financial condition of the colony, and to recommend an equitable apportionment of colonial and provincial liabilities, with a view to end the indefinite liability of the Southern provinces from Northern expenditure, and to give to the Northern provinces the control of Native affairs within their respective limits. With power to call for persons and papers, Such committee to consist of Mr Dillon Bell, Mr Curtis, Mr Eyes, l)r Featherston, Mr McLean, Mr Macandrew, Mr Moorhouse, Mr J. C. Richmond, Mr Williamson, and the mover—Mr Vogel."' Mr Fitzhebbert : In rising to speak on this question I have no intention of doing so at any great length, but I do not mean that I should not be prepared to do so if I thought the substance of the remarks which have been made by the lion, mover of the resolution required any lengthened reply on my part, On the contrary, however, I feel satisfied that the conclusions which have been arrived at in my mind whilst listening to his remarks have been similar to those which a majority of this House have formed. In fact the lion, gentleman lias not made out anything but an extremely feeble case, and his remarks have been stale on very stale subjects, upon which no new light whatever has been shed. I shall follow carefully the remarks which the lion, gentleman has made, and shall then state to the House the course which the Government proposes to adopt with regard to the motion. The honourable gentlemau commenced with a consideration of Native affairs, and, as I have] stated, we have had a rechauffi of very stale observations on the subject. Large sums, he has informed us, have been lavished on Native affairs. The- House I think is aware of that. It is also aware that there has been no substantial returns for that expenditure. We have also had a sort of droll desponding view of the theory of war finance. He announces to us the great and novel truth that war is a financial mistake. We all admit that fact, and that the remark is stale too. He tells us, by way of an excusatory remark, and in rather homely terms, that we must cut our garment according to our cloth. We quite agree with him. He tells us further the astonishing truth that countries cannot alwajfc stand on their dignity, and then he comes to a conclusion of a very interesting character viz, that we must adopt a great policy of expediency. Next, whilst leading: the House up, by his

arguments, to the conclusion that local management of natives was desirable, the hon. gentleman made a remarkable observation, and one which I am not going to dispute the truth of, when he said that according to the accounts which had been receive 1 of the recent murders by the natives, they were aB treacherous and horrible as any that had been committed in this unfortunate country, and yet that they had excited comparatively little notice. That, Sir, is very true; the news has been received by the country generally with much less excitement than the account of similar treacheries would have been received at a former period of the history of the colony. But, Sir, I deduce from that a totally opposite conclusion to that which appeared to be foremost in the mind of the lion, gentleman, became, at the moment he was making that interjectional remark, his argument was leading up to prove that the management of native affairs should be changed from its present unsatisfactory position, But the deduction I draw is this, that it shews that the Government is not ready to rush into war. I think that no stronger proof could possibly be adduced of the determination of the Government, to use the expression of the honourable gentleman, to be guided by considerations of expediency, and not to drag the country into a general war. I have, therefore, only got to use the very weapons furnished me by the honourable gentleman to prove the verv reverse of that which he seeks to establish. He also recommends, and I think it no novel recommendation, that we should enlist the orderly natives on our side; but I would ask the House whether this suggestion has not only been part of the theory of the present Government's policy, but also a part of its practice. But, Sir, I think there was another point where the hononrable gentleman was endeavouring to lead himself and the House, by his arguments, up to the conclusion that it was desirable the management of native affairs should be changed—transferred to other hands than those of the General Government—that his argument broke down. For, Sir, he made use of observations which, to my mind, lead to a totally different conclusion if legitimately worked out. He said that the orderly natives should have been enlisted on our side, and he also said that the country should look for substantial guarantees for the lavish expenditure on the war. Now, Sir, let us consider what is the meaning of a substantial guarantee from a people that have been in a state of insurrection, more or less. When we speak of substantial guarantee in such a case, what do we mean but that we should take their lands ? I know of no other possible interpretation to the phrase. When, Sir, during the Crimean war-com-paring small things with large-we heard of demanding a substantial guarantee, I ask what was meant ? I ask, was there any other possible interpretation than that territory should be seized ? And, I ask, where is the consistency ?-or rather, is it not totally inconsistent, when we are told that we must cease from war—must adopt a policy of expediency and management—and yet we must demand at the same time a substantial guarantee ? Sir, I say this great question has not been thoroughly thought out by the hon. member. The hon. gentleman then went on to attribute the native difficulty to the existence of the Native Office and of the Defence Office; and he further went on to say that we Bhould have no army in New Zealand but simply an armed police. Sir, if there is one thing more than another to which the present Government can point as deserving the thanks of the country it is to the fact that they have steadily declined to , establish a regular army ; and I think that i although he complains that there are as many Colonels and Majors and Captains in the Northern Island as formerly he will acknowledge that the Government is deserving of thanks because, although they had the power, they have not yet organized an armed police force, Here, again, I say the honourable gentleman's arguments tell against himself when he complains of the existence of as many Colonels and Majors and Captains in the North Island as formerly. I am not going to make the inference that when he does so he is influenced by any aversion to those gentlemen as a class. I do not suppose that he wants to eject them from the colony, but this I will say, that if he means his assertion to be interpreted in another senße, and that he complains that there are as many now in the service of the colony as formerly, he states—no doubt unintentionally—what is not the fact; and, Sir, when he adduces these statements as arguments to shew that the present management of native affairs is bad, and may be improved, if I shew that his premises are wrong, and that there is a discrepancy in his then the arguments of the hon. member fall to the ground. I say again, Sir, that the argument on whieh he relied, viz., that there was no organized armed police force in the colony, is stronger in favour of the Government than any that can be adduced on this side of the House, for if we, though we had the power to organize such a force, preferred not to raise it, I am sure that all impartial men will give due weight to this fact, and acknowledge that a Government, desirous of rushing into war, would immediately on re ceiving the authority of Parliament have organized such a force. It is, Sir, because this Government relied upon a totally different system, of management of native affairs, and of tiding over the native difficulty, that they have steadily declined to put the country upon a war footing, and thereby indefinitely increase the contributions from the Southern towards the Northern Island. Sir, the hon. gentleman, when drawing towards the conclusion of his arguments upon the first part of the subject, informs us that the greater part of the North Island was quite ripe for a transfer in the management of native affairs from the colonial to the local authorities, and he went on to assert that in every instance local management had been successful, whereas that of the General Government had been a failure. But, Sir, the House will recollect that when he made that assertion he did not favour the House with onesingle instance in proof ofit. The windingup remarks of the hon. gentleman upon this brauch of his subject were, that the Government would, no doubt, say there were technical difficulties in the way of carrying out his proposals, and there were guarantees which would be required. But by some convenient method best known to himself, but with which he did not favour the House, he porposed to sweep away all difficulties. There was the Gordian knot, and lie proposed to cut it, but he gave no indication of the way in which it could he united. All he said was, '• There is a difficulty, but it shall all be swept away." I have to thank the hon. gentleman for the tone and manner in which he has brought forward this subject, at the same time, as I have followed the arguments of the hon. member I think I have fully justified my opening remarks that his arguments were stale, and, in fact, gate no support to his motion. The honourable gentleman stated, and it will not be denied, that this is a question on the details 6f which the House requires information. He also stated that details could not he conTeniently discussed in this Houße. Now 1 am not going to complain that the hon. member did proceed to the discussion of details—probably it was unavoidable—but 1 failed to find anything of a novel kind brought forward ; anything that had not been a subject of notoriety ever since we have had responsible government. He stated that our accounts were one year behindhand in being brought before the House ; but, Sir, the honourable gentleman is not the first person who has noticed the fact, He then proceeded to give us an account of the distribution of the three-eighths of the Customs' revenue in 1865-6. and came to the conclusion that the provinces had received only one-tenth of the revenue-in fact, that they had received only about £BO,OOO a-year. He asks the hon. members of this House to believe that the provinces had received only £BO,OOO to be divided amongst nine of them. (ask the honourable gentleman whether, by means of the details he went into, he di not endeavour to argue the House into a belief that nine provinces . were able to subsist during the year 1865-6 on £BO,OOO, exclusive of their land* revenue, and we know that several of the provinces have no land revenue ? We must, I think, come to the conclusion that

!nurab!e gentleman has, by means 61 '.but I venture to say that, not om ienibcrwlio could follow him throngl; Lents, could come to any other coiv [huii that his; ■firejfifci/Jwra.wrong, his conclusion «s it mluctio altihtlie hoiuiniblo ger.tlcihun than proo criticize a certain clause in the Apion Act of 18G5rG, wluclt was sb yl nyhon,'fricnd;at.tlie.fead«l Lit. (JfthatcriiicHmallcan •it ilio present Government hud u.otlilever to do with that-clause ; but, 1 doubt my honourable friend at the he Government, will, himself fully presently, and I will leave this qiiesIlls hands, for it is not one touching ion in point., Having:, gone .somfe riher into details, the honourable ; „ informed the House that there iiit of knowledge on this o( ami that "« adjustment of the ivii.* what was wanted, in arriving m did not propose tpforget tlte.rela:ions of the province?. .Now, Sir, I going to dispute these statement:), iev are such as no .p'ho who has given superficial' .attention to the question t> is ignorant of. He .particularized other niu'ters (lie. cost of.'transferring t of Government from AuekWellihgfqn. He did me the o say that I made a proposal reeyears ago on the.subject, which ausijers would have been.iinil would very good one. lam not going to ier ii'. went against me p r not on sion—l think lie went against me—clad that lie .lias comejqiind to my .. Tlien flip honourable, gentleman iv anticijratibn to. the'■"■financial proof the 'Government; and argued louse ought not to wait for <i statethat policy. He raised a difficulty then answered it by anticipation, on to say, speaking,of thepropijsed: o cou*olidate the Provincial "loans, mid be a mostprofitablelransactioh, in Connection-' with if> we -.oughtto the market and borrow largely, re might not have any specific want should-go. into the market and get v, and spend it when we wanted it, no doubt,. Sir, that in finance, as,in g else, there is a wide latitude for of opinion, but I cannothelp thihkte is wrong jn 'telling us that, in the •iticaj position of New 'Zealand, all s to go into, the market and raise But there will be plenty of pppoN •eafter of going: more fully into this id as it is notVa.point: exactly relai question at issue, I. will not refer ! fully how. The honourable genoiiud up his remarks by referring (to the general feeling of irritation ts through-the .'.colony. Sir, no ■gcet more. than, the present Governt'such' a-feeling should exist, and I this as a convenient, opportunity to t.tli'e Goyernmeht generally propose : there is phe point winch {'omitted upon, and in which..{ entirely folium.' gentleman in his' arguments, •hich .1 "wish now to refer,.as t'h that feeling of irritation referred leaking of the consolidation of tlie said' it-i was necessary that we should iomejfiriaricial' understanding at tlie ! that; we proceeded to,', consolidate, ■overnment recognize,; that not only •to -the'prbpbsahof-the'Goverri'ment lidatibn, butaisovin regard,to.that stion of the irritation which the lion, l. refers to ias;existing, all- over the: is necessary that some arrangements made.:. Now, Sir, I anvprepared ; to to the House, that the Government for some time' in contemplation; and workiug at it. as steadily 'ds;it'has !e'^:they : : : '' have'.' been'' for;, soine carefully .considering■ ,a proposal cial.;'arrangement and adjustment iall"consolidate' the;"debts, .of';'''the and offer .its:,:endorsement to the reditorT—and which ishaU.alsoY by ; propdsalsi.''.-re-ItiffiQYS & m every;, part fof-New \;Zealand,.;..So it is practicable, all just: grounds' of complaint.:. ;And, Sir, without going to foreshadow-.the.; statement which |lp , and-by,{ shall have the honour-of making Bgpoon as I havethel perfect 'means': at .my Bglijposa], arid should:tbe House permit me to Sp so, I may say that; amongst these proposals |l|thas been an integral and- essential ;characB|lristic that a fixed portion of the .revenues wßtbe colony; shall be.giveh.to.tbe provinces; Sgppd, Sir',it is also an..essential matter,, just in the private affairs of life when Hpere is to' .be; :a..; dissolution .of .partnership Slat there should be a prior statement of past Hllccount?. to see how all parties. stand.before raSiey wind upr-I say,' Sir,; that; in ;the./same Hmy ..the.iGdvefnment.. will, endeavour, to Hujost'.': the:'''.p : ast-. liabilities .of the; colony, Hpd that:.)in; no' 'niggardly or '"ungenerBpas i;spirit.;" The ; : honourable, gentleman S» preferred;:-to,-.'... one-.,/point; to which ffipe attention of the; Government;; has been some time, iajregard t6 ; winding' jap) these accounts, with the-provinces, and it Hffl that in any:winding up- be.-.maiii-it should he done without preference to the .'relative: position of the prpHginces, Tliehobourablegentlemari has here Hrakeii up the true position, and it is the posiSpom which tbe Government .lias; for souie past had its attention directed to, process -of arrangement must rapvei that, for its"'basis', and I am glad to find jgglhat'the honourable gentleman agrees with us. SgwowSir, I have finishedcriticising thei remarks Sgftf the honourable gentleman. I have folHBpwed s-tep by step his remarks on the two rapain divisions of his 'speech, viz., Native and the finances of the colony, and the IjsEouse will Bee that, to my mind,, many of hie Spmarks, vievred as part of,.a. whole, are whilst on sOme points he has made statements, and in matters; of finance jjgtam always ready to recognise his ability fflpfevertheless, I am bound to say that, with gpS ff exceptionß,,aU his arguments are of a character, andhe lias brought very little Kpiew light to bear upon the question, lint HpJir, 1 am not prepared to say that anyone Hpecotiid have shed'more .light upon the glfluestion, for the position .assumed hy the MUjonpurable gentleman is a false one, and hit Spcaieisalameone. Sir, Gpyernmerit; before«jiand, considering the-'nature of, the moveBprent, and the quarter iiom which it. came S|jiad. to consider deeply arid "seriously what Hpiourseit should, adopt; I'twas riot one.ol ordinary proposals made' to the House M*hi.ch the Government decide upon by a jffiffiapce consultation as occasion arises, but ii Spas necessary that, they should consult ffltieribu9ly together as, to the position -in which ■Batthey would stand in the presence of the B»Hpuse. I now come to the.aspect of the SEquestion regarded as a whole, and I may say whilst, the Gdyerrirrient believed. thai BBthe motion was father 1 in anticipation ol m:)fteir statemerit of financial policy, nevertlieHftethey had no. desire, to. baulk this House any investigation, 'which it. might' think to 'hold into ' matter's- wn.icli'- fdi H||fome time past have greatly interested tin gpjbolony from one end tq the ether. I; hope ■ptherefore, that, in the cqurse.which I air HEftboutto propose Ihe House will .recognise fflgwat the Gpyerrimerit is ready to yield to the and giving, it; an opportunity of infflKforming itself through its own tnediuiri, and jßpnot 1 by channels plßced before it v by the |»Government I think. On. the other bant HKthat this Gpyernmerit,,as; any other .Govern; nppent which his. any self-respect,.is bount to consider its position and what is dpi it—tp consider both the naturaof the pro and the quarter from which it came tmean by this is that.the 'hon'i. movei this resolutiori occupies the : position o; |K|feaderof the Opppsitiori in the House; ane HpMo'te the Government could do no other thari moye.an arnendmerit to the resojii . Sir, let the House. :bear with ine for; ||H|inorrient while I point put something con l|s|nected with this proposal,.Jahd with mos under similar circumstance: it.Comes, from an acknowledges very proper and cimstitu state,pfjlhingsjbut.still, from an ac opposition. The forces of hot! having been brought put in battle array has; always been, a.custom in Parlkainentar; for no uncertain bugle, note qf battl" be given on sucliVpccasions. In. the presen when the 'fesbiutibri'iia'me to be read, i f|||||tac&me obvious that, though it uttered anun

: certain sound,.it kind of Rqueiik. yet it wlis'ofi ■'ii hostilechiinicter, I ask fdria.moiiiciit-thbi attentionpf;the']louse 'to.the composition of; ■'tliis!'nisolution. : .v;l";do hot.'. 1 refer;to. its points: ; of: gniniiiiar, but to the evidence: ''-iii-it bfilio' : •Tarious.sttttos'of',raiiul.in(lcrtlie: : irilliaMice-of ; ' ivhicli. it. was framed; yVe : rill know of (lie. I olistoryofltliejjoyjitjsclippl who," hiivipp i'lii's; 'elbow';, 'writing, . turns rouini '■::, " ; Why"' <lid. "ya\\.. jog 'liiy: :cllio\v^' : ;; .Well, 'it"is' very , I iliflicult t(V'"'\v.rit6 tinder' such circhhistances, anil it .seems, to'' me ihat'there has been; iiii equal diflicii.lly in the composition of this resolution, when it number of 'people:have been pulling tit different strings.;, linit'siim'c unfortunate leader lias jiiid to give ..akihii gf uniforiiiity to the whole. liook tit '.the wording of the ..-resolution—"Tliat a ■ select committee be appointed to inquire into ; the iiimneiiii condition of the colony, and to . rei'oninichd an eipiitai|le,ii|ipprtioiinieiit of the colonial .and' prnviiicii'tliiahilities, &c." Then it glides info siimethiivpf. about native matters.. Now I have mi .doubt die honourable gentleman would have been: grateful if he hail been permitted, simply to sitj'-i" That' a ' select committee be appointed to inquire.into the gerieial financial condition of the colpity," itiid no more,.-and I would ask hint whiit wii.'siiis reason for not bringing on, so clear hh issiie ita that would have been, That .would have lieeit a real battteribte, Well, Sir, I propose to the. House ah amendment that shall liiive the following effect, viz., I propose; 011 behalf of tlie 'Government; to give .tqj.he-House the power, of investigating: hitb these specific -matters, that are asked for, that ,' is to say, the adjustinetit of a financial arrangement 'between .the."Nprth and Aiiddle ,' island) that may have'tlie effect' of imposing '; a limit to'fheir liability, and also to consider ; whether the management of native affairs should be gjven or hot to the provinces. ! Nowwhen tlie Government does tliat, lam ! bound to say that I expect the .honourable/ ', gentleman will at once apcetle to the prppp- ' s.it'ion,,fpf.my atteritioh is tailed- to iiis ■open- ~ ing remarks where he says - that- hehopes this . willnptbemadeaGoVernmeiitquestioii. He called attention to tlie = peculiarity of the con- . structiori and terms Of iiis hiptibn, : and I ask , him to remove that peculiarity, and make it ■ one of a consistent toiid. I hope; the House ; will not misunderstand what I say; the Government do make a ministerial, question of tlii.ij'iin'd they propose aiaii amemlrherit that all the words after (he word "appointed" | down to the word ''limits" be omitted, with '. a v jew to insert other words in lieu thereof, • so that the'Vfliole amendedmbtipu would read ': as follows; -vizi," That a select committee be appointed for the specialobjectof ascertaining , —lst. Whether the indefinite liability of the : Southern'-province's for Northern expenditure ; can be limited, and if; bp, whether any reeonK ! raendation can be ma.de for any equitable apportionment of colonial and provincial -. liabilities. 2nd. Whether,- and if so in wliitt : manner, the control of Native affairs can be conferred; oh the Northern provinces within their respective limits—with power to call for persons; and papers. Such Committee to consist of Mr Dillon Belj, Mr Curtis, Mr Eves, D'r Featherston, Air McLean, Mr Macandrew, Mr Mobrhouse, MrJ;C. Rich- " inond, Mr Williamson, and the Mover." The original resolution, of the honourable gentleman was for a Select Committee to inquire into the finances of the colony, and no Got vernment that has the slightest respect fer itself could submit to such a proposal, and the present Government is not prepared to submit. It would be abdicating its functions, and saying tliat it was incapable of dealing with such questions. The proper way for the hbn,■'gentleman to have dealt with the question would havei been, to have come forward with a definite'resolution—with such a resolution as would imply a want of confidence in the Government, : I admit, however, that it is quite open to the lton. ! gentleman to take any' course lie chooses, but the jogging process to whicii.i have alluded appearsto have impeded himj'and caused his trumpet to emit ah uncertaih.sound.. There ;is .another point that I must allude to; which I'think will, explain to the, House the position which tlie Government takes in,the matter. The 1 Government guards.itself against its being supposed, by acceding .to the; substance of ;'this proposition whilst it; objects;to the; terms,-,that it. thinks aiiy : real good;wiil;epme. of tliis committee. It parefully:fguards, itself against-that, but it., says, ''lnasmuch as there"lias been for a long time 'a grpwin g ppiuion in the South that the tiorth had been taking a large portion of its revenue in order to lavish it on an expensive irar','-we : agree:-that an inquiry should be.: made.-.'into-".the matter." It is well known that!. ;the House has amongst its members', gentlemen in whom it has and who ara exponents of.. She; : yaripiis provincial' points of view, to whom; it can. give the power-of'''inquiry-. At ihe.samet.ime, Sirj there is a point Which I iiink- will be regarded by all reasonable riembers as ah additional proof that the 3'p.vern.fhent in this matter wishes to act in ;he frankest manner possible, while it does . iot forget what is due.toitself asaGoverrinent. •■' which shewsj in fact, that/ it does not ■ ;ake any .captious objection 'to the-resolutionj . tnd- that is with regard to the composition of ;his .committee, Why, Sir, itis the first'time it any rate within my recollection,-when such t proposition as, is here contained has been, nade in this colony; Itis in facta cornnittee Bimply of Superintendenta. Now, Sir, nany of the Superintendents as members of■: his House, since I'iiave been: acquainted with: t, have been arid. ,are ; amongst, the greatest irnamenta.to the. House.. It. is not thatl ibject. to ;tiie mixture of. them with other nembers, but.t.say,.Sir, that .this;question is Ought -to .be-referred. to Superintendents blely; and thatjs an.objection which anyone; night reasonably, have niad'e. 1 . I ask there-; pre ■....the ...:House ..■ to ~ consider. ■ in. an. ripartial spirit,-themanner : .ih .whith the joverrinient: approaches this question ; that he motion contains a. grave objection, and el the Government waiveslt, :mereiy enter-, tig its protest in this silent : , I, stated hat it was acpramittee 'ot.- Superintendents,. iut there is one novelty;in it—it is. the first, ustanee in the.history of the ; colpny of New. 'ealand where Supermtendents are norni-, lated. Whytherearetwo'-nominatedsuper-, ritendents in it. (Laughter)., I ask the.| iPiise whether there are; or not; There are! ir Curtis, Mr; Eyes, Dr Featherstone, Mr ilcLean,,Mr Macandrew, MrMoprhpusei.and; ilr Williamson, whp.are elected f Superinten-tents,.-also holding seats in -this, .House ;. : iut.there.are..two persons on it. from pro-:' 'inces not having -superintendents,, who; ,re :-.'als'o'- members of', .the House, ..■ ; and;. he mover has nominated ..-..them. There; 3 :Mr JDillon .Bell, for, Southland, and iiy hpnpurable friend, Mr J.: C., lliclimchd,. lominated .for Taranak.i... 7'he Gdyermiierit/ iakes nopbjectioit. to.theapppintment.;. but ,s : Mr-Richmpnd-is on the, cpnimittee quoad he Superintendent, of Taranaki, I will give lottce, at the,earliest opportunity afforded; ae, that IwiJi. move-to-morrow that Mr tail's name be added tpthe committee.: As he:honourable,mover has hot arrived at. any, oregohe c6ncliißioii> and is only.seeking out he truth.'it.is quite clear that he will accede, o this: -.proposition-.; ■ and Mr Hall, as,a, nember of the Southern island, will be the riost fit and proper member of the Governnent tliat. could, be chosen. With theso emarki! I begftp movei the amendment which ■ have already read to the; llquse..

Mr Qarleton rosis: to intimate hiß intention J to nioye a further amendment wfien the. proper time came, but'he thought it necessary thatthe'Houßeshould at'oncebe-putln.' possession of theternisof that amendment, Heinten'ded'i in the. first place, to vole for the amendment of his hbnouriible friend ori the Tfeaßury Benches, hut if that was carried lie would tlien move his, as tiecouM not accept the.resolutibtiias.proposed to'.boamended,any more as a whole than as moved by ■the--lion, member- for the Goldfk-lds. His reason was that'the resolution/ was roiilly a sham, and the amendment ■■which had heen proposed did not entirely divest it of the character of a shun. Amendment proposed—" That all the words after word ■■•■■ appointed."' down to the word ' liiiiitsMje omitfe'ilj with a vjew to substitute the following:; 'To inquire whether the indefinite liability of' the Southern Provinces to Nortliern expenditure might not be most effectually discharged by Insular Separation," -(Mr Carleton.) Questions put, "That the. words proposed to he'omitted stand part of the question."

:. MrSTXPFoiiusnid lid understood.Unittlio ,hoiv, member/for. the Buy of 'lslands had.not formally moved his aiiii'ii(lnieiit,.biit (mil only :.?ijW J 1 , 0 wojihldo so atahcproper time; thivt whs, if the Goyeriiiiieiit; .liiiieiiiiiiient was adoptedvlm would thciiuipvffhis.' Tlio Si'KAicku the amendment of tliij hoii. nieinljw for tlio, liny of Islands .dealt -with, an earlier '.'jiart of the resolution than the other' amendment;, the practice of ■the House required that it should be dealt with first. J)r li'eatiikkston said lie did not rise for the purpose of prolonging the debate, hut in the hope of bringing it to an earlier conclu--Bioii. '.iiaviiiK lieiird the conciliatory .speech of the Goloniitl'i'ronsorei', to which ho hail listeiiecl u'itli. extreme pleasure, and having heard the amendment which he had proposed, he foroiie saw iio object to be gained by (he further discussion of the resolution before the•ilou.se. It did, however, appear to him that the nature of the resolution .proposed'by the "lion-, member for the goldliolds (Mr Vogel) had to a considerable extent been ■ ■misrepresented by the.. Colonial Treasurer, lie for one (iou)i) assiire the lion, member that there w'iis not the slightest intention oil their part to take the management of the fiiian'ccof the colony out of his hands, and still less' to imply any wiint of confidence in him; for he believed the whole House recognised his (the Colonial Treasurer's) ability. The real object of the resolution, as had been stated by the lion, member (Mr Vogelj himself, was to ascertain by the aj)p()intii)i.'iit()f aSelect Committee whether some means could not.undevised.by which afair, apportionment of their debts -arid liabilities could be made between the Middle arid .Northern Island; so that the .Middle island' should be relieved from.air indefinite, liability for Native wars and. expenditure on/Native, purposes; while on the other hand the Northern Island should be relieved from that in terference in Native affairs which it believed, whether rightly or'wrongly, to be most detrimental to its interests, and tobe one of. the principal causes of the' Native; wars; and which undoubtedly had been the ' cause ofthe destruction of the territorial re-' venue of the Northern Island. It followed as.a necessary consequence of the Northern Island being relieved from any interference, that the attention of the committee should be called.to the consideration of the further question whether it woujd be wise or expedient, to abolish the Native Office, and hand over the management of Native affairs to the provinces, and make them responsible for their own defence. Then if that question were decided in the affirmative, the attention of the Committee ■would naturally be turned to the terms and conditions on which the .Northern Island should take on itself those grave responsibilities and increased expendi* ture. That such questions, which had been subjects of comment in the Press, and which lay at the root of that cry for separation which had again been raised that everting, should be settled, ought not to imply any want of confidence in the Government, lie was glad that the Colonial Treasurer had taken.a similar view and had made conces-sions,-;aml he would ask the mover of the resolution at once to adopt the ainendmcut of

the Colonial Treasurer. No doubt the report of the ..'Committee, when brought up, would contain grave matters for discussion, and lie was quite certain that the question would then be approached in a far better spirit and

with & mor e earnest desire to come to some just conclusion. He therefore trusted his proposal would be acceded to. With respect to the composition of the committee, he "felt the Government had just cause for complaint, and lie believed the House would readily consent to any alterations which the Government might propose. Mr Vogel wished to state that he was quite

willing to accept the amendment; in fact he was not sure that it did not answer the purpose better than his own resolution. He also wished to correct a mistake into which the Colonial Treasurer had fallen, in representing him to have said, that the provinces had only had £BO,OOO to spend last year. He. knew that they had spent more; but what he had said was, that as.far as the accounts went, £BO,OOO was all that they were declared to be entitled to; The rest was paid them on account of previous debts, and part of it they had to return'.

Mr Stafford : It cannot but be gratifying to tlie Government to find that the amendment which they have proposed, 011 ah important question like the present, has been so well received on all sides of the House.

It is also gratifying that the hon, member for the city of Wellington (Dr Featherston) has risen so soon, as by doing so he has probably shortened what might otherwise have been an irritating discussion. It is, however, a matter of some surprise that the hon, member should have interposed between the hon. member for the Goldfields (Mr Vqgel) and the Government, when he (Mr Vogel), in his position as leader of the Opposition, had placed this notice on the paper. The Government, therefore, desires to know the attitude of the hon, member for the goldfields, now that the hori. member (Dr. Featherston) and others, who might be supposed to act with him, have agreed to accept an amendment to the resolution which the ber for the goldfields had submitted. In the present position of the question, I do not wishto say anything which might cause irritation, as the Government recognises that there is a'most natural desire on the part of

the House; composed, as it is,, largely of new members, inany of whom have, for the first! tiniei directly taken part in the public affairs of thecolony, to- havesome, authentic information on subjects wliichhave been, throughout the length and breadth of tlie land, as by the hon. member for the city of Wellington, matters of interest and anxiety, and I tniiy also say of misrepresentation, The Government:recognises the; fact that some such machinery as aSelect Committee will .dispel that misrepresentation to.a great extent, in; the sameiway as a Committee in a previous . session dispelled an idea, which was very -pre.valerit, that the confiscated lands were a very large and valuable ;estaU My hon. friend 1 (Dr. Featherston) is .sufficiently versed in parliamentary;tactics, and. in tlie conduct of publie affairs, both;as araemberof this House ■and:.inpbther capacity of. great importance;

to enable liimvto know that the Government was justified in desiring to. omit that por'ioiv of the resolution which .no responsible Government, with any self-respect, could consent to have carried except at. its own instigation, The ; logical interpretations Of the first part of that resolution was, Ministers, are utterly.ignorant of the 'financial condition, of the country,, utterly unable to remedy what, is objection.--' ..'able; in. it,: and .therefore we will relegate to a Select Committee; to .say what, shah be. the financial: policy (if .the.Goyerhnieht, and what .propdßitibna.slialVbe.subQiitted tbthe.Hoiise. Imaybepermittedio.say that the Govcrn---inbents'of ■'the'colony.have BufEered"Conßiclerabiy :: of late years at any rate, from the circumstance: that they held office for to. short a time tliat they were induced to become indifferent as to the ultimate effect of their actions, I can speak with experience on. this ..questionj andl.say that it. is a sfcrugglewith Ministers 1 to- consider 'anything but, their individual Wishes for the: moment,.as they;.know that, Whether they are guided by their own wishes : only or not;their tenure of office is.equally uncertain; and: that it 'is veryimprobable/that they will ever be. induced to. take. a.part in public affairs;again f They.feel really that tlie.con-, sequences.to themselvea. are. triflingi.and.that; "whether--they act rightly or wrongly ..their

position in the next .session will he the same. iTiiatfeelihg is tho 'most pernicious onca 'Government can liave.: The proposition of the: hon; member, as(originally moved, superadded- fo= that feeling this consideration—that for the future no Government shiiuldtrpuble itself with finance at all, but should simply uiii dertake matters of departmental routine, arid leave financial statements, which are at present most gravo ones, entirely but of'consideration, referring them every session to a Select Committee, Any one acquainted with financial affairs will say that the most dire results would ensue if that course were taken. In that case the Government had better give up office, and allow their work to he done by clerks. I do not think that is what the colony desired when it wished to have responsible govenir ment, It expects the -Government to have a opinion of its own, and to take time.to fortify that opinion by research and consideration, and a watchful attention to

: the varying! circumstances of the country, anil tliii country expects, when tlie Govern. iiici.it--" meets Parliament, llmt having Imil opportunities of considering nil the circum- : stancen in.w.liicli it is placed, it will propose .such 'nica'surcs ii's the country may require; hut if yimiiike iiwiiy from it ihc consideration pf'tbe iiimiicial ■■ measureswhich may he required, then .the sooner you do away with the. form of .responsible Government the hotter. As the debate has now assumed a pliiiso'which was notexpicled, 1 shall forbear frpm-c.nt.er.iiiK lit length into Hie question us [ otherwise would have done, and shall not comment on tlie temperate speech of the mover of the rcsolution-a speech which, H'itlioiijjh'l ■coii'lil not agree with liis conclusions, was fiiiriy.stated from Ids point of view, While referring to the position which [\ w question hiis assumed, I may say that 1 have been informed ihero is an idea among sonic honorable members that'the amendment of which the lion, member for the Hay of I*lands has given notice was instigated by a member of the Government; I caiv emphatically deny that that was the case. It would have htcn ut very'inconsistent thing for the Government to do. This Government !m stood forward as being opposed to separation; how, then, could we ask any lion, member to move such aii amendment-? What would have been our position when the amendment came to be put to the vote ? I hope ut moment's consideration will dispel the idea that the amendment could be.instigated by it member of the Government, Tlie lion, member, in moving it, acted 'iii.depende.ntly of the Government, whether prbpnomotu, or at the instigation of any person I cannot say ; and all we knew of ■it-was.that .just'before he rose he came to this part of the House and said be was going tii move such an amendment. The lion, member will confirm what I say. (Gesture of assent from Mr Carleton.) Ido not know that the-House would wish this debate protracted. I willj therefore refrain from commenting on the speech of the mover, of which I may say again that it was very temperate. It is 11 gratification to the Government to have their amendment agreed to, except so far as the composition of the Committee is concerned. We only propose to add a member of the Government to it, who is much interested in the Middle Island, and whose vigilance and earnestness will secure for the question submitted to the committee every attention and Consideration; but we hold ourselves perfectly open to accept propositions for any other constitution of tlie committee, although we will not make them ourselves, nor have instigated liny lion, member to do so.

Mr MooHHOiisu did not approve of the resolution or the amendment, because it would appear that the liability of the Middle Island was not to fin Mi. The Middle Island should recognise its liability, in common with (lid whole colony, for any expense ineuwed in consequence of the vote of the House, lie believed that the present system should be discontinued, and one of the best guarantees .of the discontinuance of the evils of the system was to leave the Northern Island to manage its own affairs—leave the Northern Island to direct its own police, maintain its own military establishments, and pay its own expenses, The shortest way to terminate the i roubles in the Northern Island was to oblige them to pay the expenses of suppressing them. If they should cutoff from the Northern Island the keeping up of a warlike expenditure, they would shortly have the police-courts filled in the prosecution of men who had hitherto been in high odour—men who had hitherto been in the habit of seeking every occasion of being offensive to the Native race—men who were looked upon as being deserving of Lynch law. He knew that the Northern Island and the Southern Island also were full of men marching about with military trappings, who made a merit of proclaiming their desire to-cut the throats of Native subjects. It was considered martnl and commendable to do so. The inhabitants would increase in virtue in proportion as their means to pay for rows diminished. In the most brotherly spirit towards his brethren in the Northern .Island he would recommend them to join with him in urging the Legislature to give them sole management of the police and the administration of native affairs, ; and that they should not consent to receive one shilling of the expense. Immediately the means of keeping up war was taken from them, they would he extremely careful to avoid it. He did not understand what the lion, ■member, for Wellington meant to say with regard to the violation of the compact of 1856. There bad been a remarkable violation of the-fi'.uncial compact of 1856 in one direction, Something was intended by those resolutions of 1856 which had not been realized. No doubt exigencies and emergencies had arisen to account for it. They bad been called upon to increase the burdens upon their territories, and to curtail their enjoyment of them, to effect an expenditure of £3,000,003 on the Northern Island. That was a departure from the spirit and intention of the resolutions of 1856. He quite agreed that that was not the proper time to discuss matters of that sort. He was delighted to find that the House was so disposed to accept the recommendation of the hon. member for Wellington. He waa not a party to the framing of the retolution, as he was employed in another place, and had not held any converse with those who had formed it. In order to avoid separation, which was still possible, and which it might afterwards be -'impossible toavoid, the better plan would be to propose a resolution that the Northern Island should -manage its owii affairs, pay their own police, and having remitted the Auckland overdraft, should thenceforward : relievei tlie Middle Island from any participatipn.ifrthe expense of keeping peace in the North. -1 he Natives had now been educated in a knowledge of European laws, and they had one common court in which matters of differencecould'be set right. He should be -glad to have;l)is name struck off the commit■t'ee. He thought there was a great deal of force in the Objection raised by the Government to the: appointment of the committee—it's "-consisting, entirely of Superintendents. It was a matter of regret that the Superintendents of .provinces were not supposed to have any opinion with reference to legislation; except it was immediately referable to their own particular places. When he came ■ to the Legislature, although anxious about mattersaffecting his local government, be was as anxious as any hon. member to promote the'safety, honour, and progress of the whole colony. Mr J. Ci RicuMONrj would not go into the general question, or dwell on the bright prospects held out by the hon. member for ■ Westland, who> had promised to change the aspect ofthe. colony, and, by a simple resolu- - tiori, 'to convert a question of war into a question of police. It was a magical process. : lie would .also leave to the gentlemen representing the; Auckland constituency the full consideration of the prospects the hon, gentlemail's speech held out to them, as that was a matter tliey were fully competent to consider, to their,great advantage, without his ": assistance. He only rose to speak upon one point .which the hon. member for Westland .'inquired about, as to what was meant by the hon. member for Wellington (Dr Feathersto.n), when lie! said that in 1862 the financial compact of 1856 was violated. He had referred to Native Lands Act, 1862," which abandoned the pre-emptive right of the Grbwiii and gave absolutely to the Native occupant's lands over which the provinecs, under the resolutions of 1f56, held what . might be called latent rights. He was sorry to: take exception to anything the hon. member for Wellington had said in his very „ conciliatory remarks, hut ho icjt bound in i'honour to rise and protest against such a ■ statement as that made by the lion, member, [ He never looked on the transactions of 1856 • itl thought they were regarded by some persons, They were not a treaty between six , States as to the distribution of territories. [ : He looked upon them, nevertheless, as an i arrangement that must be held sacred so ;■■■ long as the colony remained one, because ! they affected the financial dealings of the I province—bodies to a great degree outside [ that Legislature. But it was most incorrect I to state that: the Act of 1862 wa passed by a : Southern majority. When the Act was i passed* there was present a large number of ! members of the Northern Island. Twenty I supported the Act, and nine opposed it. i His honorable friend felt deeply the

passing of that Act, and bis view of tlio merits of the case between tlie North and Hniilh was somewhat coloured by Unit. He felt the great change- to tlie provinces by the passing of that Act/' lie remembered the speeches which that gentleman and the lion, member for Auckland (Mr, John Williamson) nmdu on that occasion, lie himself had fell sonic misgivings, but he had acceded, because when the preamble was brought before the Legislature, lie thought it was only a question of a few months when the Act .should lie passed, He was hound to say the Act of 18(12 was no violation of the resolutions of 18J(i. It did not release the Northern Island from tlie binding effect of those arrangements, as it was done by nil overwhelming majority of Northern Island members. The Southern members did not move in the matter—they acquiesced in it.

Mr Tkavkiw would refer to the observations made by the lion, member for Weslland. He did not approve of the statement that men in military garb .vere moving jibou!. the face of the country—the North and Middle Islands—enjoying or suppo-cd to enjoy the opportunity they might have had of cutting the throats of their darker-coloured fellowsubjects. In looking at the legislation of this colony from the first moment that it possessed what might be termed free institutions, he conceived that the mode in which the native race had been dealt with had been characterised by the utmost forbearance and consideration, and nothing but that strong feeling of revolt which was natural to Englishmen when they saw the laws of the countiy violated in the manner in which they were, by portions of the native race, induced them to take active measures for the suppression of violence and outrage. Throughout the whole of the career of the Knglish inhabitants in this country they endeavoured to carry out that more merciful mode of dealing with the native race which had lately characterised tlie people of England, In other countries the native race was looked upon as an incumbrance which it was desirable to sweep away as soon as possible. In the colonies settled by Americans those occupying North America—the native rum was treated as an incumbrance, and even now the most cruel and wanton destruction oE life took place to clear them from the face of the earth. In New Zealand nothing could be greater than the consideration with which they had been dealt with, or as the colony as a whole desired to deal with them. Although some mistakes might have bsen made in the policy pursued, there was no desire on the part of Europeans to deal with the natives in the capacity of cut-throats, hut to give them the same rights and privileges as they enjoyed themselves, It would not be fair that such an assertion as that should p forth to the country as tacitly admitted by that House, lie trusted no other member held the sentiments expressed by that lion, member—that there were any number of persons walking about the face of either the North or Middle Island entertaining such bloodthirsty thoughts in their minds as those attributed to them.

Mr MooßiiousG did not mean the military in service at tlie present time, hut those whose services wwre no longer necessary. He knew that in Cbristcbureh there were a number of military men without employment who were particularly proud in praise of the righteousness of utterly slaying the Amalekites, as they called the Natives.

Mr J. O'Neill rose for the purpose of saying that the turn the debate had actually taken clearly indicated that the motion on the paper was not in the shape it ought to be. Although it was apparently hedging round the question of separation, the real intention was the separation of the South from the North. He could not congratulate the hon. member for Westland on the feeling, tone, or words uttered by him. He had forgotten the past history of the colony. He quite forgot that the Northern Island had no voice in causing the war which had caused so much distress in the Northern Island. The hon. member had told them that they took part in getting up a loan of £3,000,000 to be expended in the Northern Island, but he seemed to forget the history of his own island, lie must know that the Middle Island received £2,601,000 out of the territorial revenue which they had no right to allow, between 1859 and 1865, and which that island bad no right to receive. If they had an Executive that would have done right by taking the bull by the horns, and have taken the whole of the territorial revenues, and not borrowed one penny in London, but used that nvmey for suppressing crime all over the country, it would have been well. That was the view the House should take, and would eventually take, unless fairness ■was dealt out to the people of the North. The lion, member for Westland must also know that up to 1865 they contributed more revenue in Auckland for general purposes thin any other province in New Zealand. The doctrine propounded by the lion, member for Westland was to consider the finances of another part of the colony as belonging to the Middle Island, a doctrine which he hoped the House would not give its assent to. The hon. member seemed to quite forget that the Northern Island bad no act or part in bringing about the war, although they had to pay the sinking fund and interest, and it seemed to be the wish to cut the cable and let them off to themselves. That was what was wanted—the Northern Island to be left to itself. He would dissent from financial separation, unless they had at the same time territorial separation. He believed the day was coming when the member for Westland and Southern members would see that the prosperity of the Northern Island would be far in advance of that of the South, Major Heapiit, V.C., said that notwithstanding his lion, friend (Mr Travers) had made a protest he would have felt himself called upon to protest moßt vigorously against what fell from the hon. member for Westland, He would have considered himself unworthy to hold his Excellency's commission, or any commission, if he allowed it to be said "that any officer had any desire to keep up that war for their own interest which the hon. member has deprecated, or that it should be resumed. He did not think it fair to those officers who had risked their lives that such a charge should have been deliberately made in that House. He had only to point out one officer who was a representative man in the Colonial Force to shew that such a charge was unfoundedColonel M'Donnell, who, on a recent occasion, knowing the feeling of the Natives, unhesitatingly went into the enemy's pah at midnight, and pointed out to them the evil of their way, argued the case quietly, and the result was success. That officer was allowed to depart from the pah and return to his camp in "peace. It was impossible to adduce a stronger case against the argument of the lion, member for Westland. He (Major Heaphy) did not know what might be the condition of political refugees in Canterbury, but Cliristchurch must have become a refuge for the political destitute. Mr MooitHODSB protested against any tortuous interpretation being put upon his words. What he said was that there were men in a half-military garb who were walking about professing their gratification at having cut throats, and stating that they were ready to cut throats again. That was the language held by such men. He did not say they were officers. There were officers in all parts of tbo colony, and he was always most willing to defend officers who were engaged in the service of Her Majesty, Mr G. GitAiusi said he could not remain quiet in his seat after what bad fallen from the hon. member for Westland. He believed that some of the Southern members said that three millions of money had been spent for war in the North, lie would ask the hon. member to look at the telegraph wires in his own island. He believed, when the Southern members were so liberal with their votes for war purposes, that they were honest in supposing that they wore doing good service, He remembered when the hon. member for Gladstone, with an honesty for which every one must give him credit, disbelieved the statement when he (Mr Graham) told him that there were settlers living in all parts of the island on good terms with the natives. He gavo the names, and the Maoris had behaved with a generosity which the Europi'ans did not manifest towards the Maoris. Very few murders took place (laughter). When a European killed a Maori it was called

murder, lint when a Maori killed n Kuropean it was wily mi nut of war. It was liitlu nmticr whether a man died by means of a Imnaliawk or a bullet. Tin: lnm. member for the JJiiy of Islands had proposed the ijue.sliun of separation. Tim Southern members of that House wished to separate themselves from further expenditure on Native affairs. Very many of them owned very large traet.s of land, paying a very small rent. There was a Providence which sent people to New Zealand, not only to colonize, hut to civilize and Christianize, The conduct of those members ti.-nl been neither to advance colonization, civilization, or peaceful settlement. Some things that had been done were abolately cruel, lie (Mr Graham) bud protested iigainst the beginning of the war in the Waikato. No murders had been committed no houses burned, no serious crimes by the Maori race, before July isii.'l, in the Province of Auckland. The Natives were driven from Ihe Native settlements of Pukaki, Maugere, and others. There had Ik en threats hy the Maoris, hut, there were no armed bodies. Preparations for war had been made by us before any murder had been committed. There had been preparation ill putting up telegraphs and in other ways. The North did all in its power to prevent war, hut they were not listmed to. There was then a peace party and a war party. The Wellington members assisted in trying to prevent war. The majority was in the South, who forced the North into war; and now they said they would give no assistance. The war was not at tin end. A gentleman named MaeDonnell had eighty men at that moment, and his brother some forty or fifty men, who were only employed for the purposes of war. Hon, members should look at what was taking place at the 15,iy of Islands. He would ask for papers in reference to that subject, and when they came up he would ask that they should be read. There was agitation going on among the natives, although all had read the Governor's speech of peace. There were very few wh i would like to venture twentyfive miles from Tauranga. They had not acted towards the natives either mercifully or justly. The Speaker: I think the honourable gentleman is very wide of the question. Mr G. Gkauaji : I will speak to this proposition for separation. The Speaker : The question before the House is the appointment of a committee on finance.

Mr G. Graham would speak of the Hon. the Defence Minister, who in September last went to Tauranga. He would remind lion, members that the Government insisted upon the Natives giving up 30,000 acres, but several thousand acres were taken in excess of that number. There had been 55,000 acres taken, instead of 50,000.

The Si'bakkr : 1 am unwilling to interrupt the honourable gentleman, hut I must ask him to pursue a line of argument that has a closer connection with the question before the House. I think the House will agree with me that the lion, member is travelling very wide of that question.

Mr G. Graham said he wanted to shew the House that there was war at that present moment. Military expenditure was going on. Seme inquiry should be made into these things. He (Mr Graham) would take another occasion to explain the true state of Native affairs, and he would challenge lion, members to refute his statement.

Mr Ciucroft Wilson', C.8., said the hon. member had been allowed to use harsh language—such words as " false" and " hypocrisy." He did not know whether such language co dd be considered in order, It was very unpleasant to ihose who were not in the habit of hearing it. It was, however, very common talk. Every member of the House knew that the members of the South said at the time they knew very little of that question, hut there were so many members told them that there was no way in which peace could be secured except by passing the Native Lands Act. On that ground it was that he (Mr Wilson) and many .Southern members voted for it. That could not be denied. The hon. members from the South ■might hold large tracts of country, hut it was not at a nominal rent. The honourable gentleman would find that they paid a larger sum annually than half of the revenue of the province of Auckland. Those sums were devoted to filling the coffers of the Provincial Government of Canterbury. The Provincial Council were satisfied, and he would ask the honourable gentleman not to interfere between tenant and landlord. He was sorry to hear the honourable gentleman say what he did with respect to the Native race. It was only the other day that he (Mr Wilson) heard with astonishment that when an aggressive movement on (lie part of the Natives was made in Hawke's Bay, the object being to attack Napier, and then to spread ruin and devastation throughout the whole of the North Island, that the officer in command, who had only a number of raw youths, the Maoris being armed with doublebarrelled guns, ordered his right-hand file to fire, instead of ordering the company to fire a volley into the Natives, who were only forty yards' distant, This was chivalrous, and, in his opinion, a mistake; but the act proved the forbearance shewn on the occasion, He (Mr Wilson) was ready to admit that in the year 1861 he had offered to settle the disturbances in the North, and he was then of opinion that the sacrifice of 500 lives would have sufficed for the purpose, and that would have been at that time the most merciful course. Since then the lives of three thousand Maoris had been taken away. He would ask the House to decide wliich was the more merciful course ? Which would have been more effectual, the man who moved four miles in six weeks, or the man who would go at them at once, and have one or two decisive engagements and settle the whole thing ? He (Mr Wilson) should not like to be fired at without striking in his own defence. If he knew that a man was going to shoot him, and he could get the first shot, he would certainly take advantage of it.

Mr McLean said that if there was one question which had more than others agitated that Assembly it was the unfortunate Native question. Pie thought the House would, and it certainly ought to, consider well and pause before it adopted any revolutionary change similar to the one noiv contemplated. He felt that there was an absence of representation of the Native race in the House, and that many difficulties might be overcome by their being more fully represented, for it could not be denied that many of the natives had sufficient intelligence to exercise, through representatives, the rights and privileges conferred by that House. Eversincc the establishment of the colony there had been a Native difficulty. Various reasons were assigned for our Native wars, while the real causes had been overlooked or lost sight of. The slumbering or latent spirit of disaffection had always existed, and if at times it remained in abeyance, the progressive and energetic character of the Anglo-Saxon naturally tended to revive it, producing an antagonism, and all of which led to collision. Any of the accidental events that had intervened had merely accelerated this already existing disposition for n trial of strength. The causes to which he bad alluded had always been in operation, and continued to the present hour. It was well known that the Native mind was of a retrospective character, that it was not fond of change j that it dwelt on the past, and did not pay much regard or look much forward to the future. He would ask the House, therefore, to carefully consider before it adapted any more of those changes which had been so constantly proposed every session of the Assembly. During the time that the Imperial Government had charge of Native affairs, in the conduct of which he himself had taken part, he might confidently say that they luid been, considering the great difficulties to be contended with, most fairly administered j and, with due regard to the House, he would venture to say that since the nunagemsnt of these affairs had devolved upon it, no advances had been made either in the administration or towards the amelioration of the native. He considered that such changes could only he regarded by the Natives as symptoms of instability and weakness, ami he would put it to the House whether it was just or equitable thnt such radical changes should take place without those who were more immediately affected by them being first consulted. He would say, in reference to these sudden changes, that he felt at the time they were first•propose 1 that the

House, or a large section of it, in endeavouring to get into its hands (he entire management of Native ail'airs, was running into a difficulty much greater than the colony was able to bear, and he regretted to say that his anticipations had since been realised. He felt lli.it a large expenditure had been entailed upon the country Iroui the sudden change in the niaimgenrnt of those all" airs. It was well known that a great tm'.ny years before representii'ive institutions were introduced, and afterwards, Native affairs htl caused difficulty; and lie A'peeted that most of the heavy expenditure w.: bid now to i K -ar bad resulted fro o ill" o instant chanties, which had caused so much irritation am! cmnterirl'itation in the native mind. I: was proposed that Ihe charge of native ail'airs should b- handed over to the Superiiruudi-nts of the seveial provinces. He (Mr Miti.e.'iu) would father not assume such a re.spon-iiii'ity. He would prefer to leave the responsibility where it now rusted. Kcpresen'imr, a* he did, a small province, was it not unteasi.nabie to expect that he could, with tiie limited resources avail; hie, deal adeiiial'ly with a question involving such large and varied interests? He (Mr McLean) re.t fed the remarks that had fullcn from the Inn. tins membo- for Westland (Mr MWh >u»e;. He believed that the native, had ben treated with the greatest humanity i.nd firh'arauce —so much so, that kindness ami conciliation had been frequently construed as arising from motives of fear and weakness. It was a great pity that any feeling should exi-t in the minds of lion, members from the South, that there is any anxiety on the part oE the people of the North Is and to perpetuate war. There could be no such desire. How was it possible that persons whose lives and property were in d-ingtr.could he desirous of war? Hon. members would find that the cry from all parts of the North was for peace. The. honourable gentleman, when he spoke of withdrawing the menus of making war, should have remembered that when it became known that there were no means for carrying on war, then we mijrht expect to have a renewal of our difficulties. It could not be considered chivalrous on the part of the South Island to withdraw from responsibility and say, " We will cut the connection between us, and leave you to act out of the difficulty the best way you can. We will not assist you in getting out of vour difficulty." The hon. member for Westland might decline to contribute a s-ingle shilling towards the suppression of war in ike North Island, but he (Mr McLean) would remind him that he could not in this way free himself from the obligations of a united colony, ami he warned him that he would be bund, if war did arise, to aid in payi g the cost of it. He might predict that if they avoided those violent revolutionary changes, the day was not far distant when tlitre would he in reality an cud to Native wars; and he would ask them to pause before they tcolc any measures which might be the means of indefinitely prolonging the difficulties which now exist, by causing a state of doubt and alarm among the natives, who, although they urea semi-barbarous race, it must he admitted are, at the same time, possessed of many good qualities, and are fully entitled to be considered an honourable and chivalrous people. (Cheers.)

Mr Williamson would agree with some of the remarks of his honourable friend who had just sat down. No one knew better than Ills honourable friend that while the Imperial Government had charge of the Native affairs in the colony, and while the old Government of New Zealand administered thoEO affairs at a time when no more than o:.e regiment of soldiers was stationed in the Northern Island, the people lived with their Maori neighbours in perfect peace and security. But he could not agree with him in the argument lie had used as against the people of the country taking an active part in Native affairs, The circumstances of the case were entirely altered, and the Natives were being brought into closer connection with t: e European population than they ever were before. It devolved upon the local boards of the country districts to impose upon every Native holding a Crown title to his land an equal share of the rates. They could not shirk payment any longer, and there was no exemption for the Natives any more than for the white man. The circumstances being altered, it was necessary hey should he brought face to face with the Native inhabitants. When they bring the Natives into the courts, as British subjects, and impose upon iliem extreme penalties, as bad often been the case when they oblige them to undergo penal servitude for offences against the British law, and when it was found they could not avoid imposing upon them the penalties for not paying their simple road rates, it was no longer a matter of choice, but of necessity that the provincial powers must be brought face to face with the Native difficulty. The present state of the country is now very different to that period to which his lion, friend had reftrred, and he (Mr Williamson) must say that the Superintendents and Provincial Governments must explain to the Natives, and were best qualified to drill them into submission to the laws under which they lived—and how could that be done ? Could it be done best by any legislation of that House, or by those who were selected by that House to manage the Native affairs ? He thought it could not. It was necessary that those who governed the provinces with reference to European affairs s.iould also do so with regard to matters concerning the natives. He believed the judgment of that House would be wisely exercised in handing over to the neighbours of the Natives who eameinto every day contact with them the management of those affairs in which they were mutually and immediately concerned. He said advisedly and he thanked Providence for it, that it was the desire of the natives themselves that such a course should be adopted. He trusted to be able to exhibit to the committee, if it were granted, strong expressions of opinion on the part of the natives to that effect. The natives themselves were more willing now, notwithstanding that they had the right to deal with the European inhabitants by way of direct sale and negotiation, to sell their lands to the Government, rather than to any private individuals, because they hoped th;t their lands would he more likely to become productive of good to them by becoming inhabited by Europeans. The lands which they had refuse 1 to sell to individuals were now offered at moderate prices to the Provincial Government of Auckland, and he would tell his honourable friend that where it was difficult, during (he time whin he was at the head of the Lund Purchase Department to obtain a single acre on the Thames he (Mr Williamson), before he left Auckland, had effected purchases there at one shilling per acre, on behalf of the Provincial Government, on condition that they sent European people to reside upon them. In 185!) he recollected visiting the country between Tauranga and Whangaroa, where he had been informed that the department of his lion, friend really could not obtain from the natives any more land in the King territory, He went into the country to inquire for himself, and he found that there really was a great unwillingness to sell land; but not long since, when he paid a visit to Tauranga, an offer was made to give a large belt of laud, provided ttiat alternate sections were given to the natives when the land was sub-divided. That was, he considered, an entirely new and gratifying feature. He considered that in the Provinces, if the Superintendents were allowed to exercise any rule at all, they must be allowed to have control over Native as well as European matters, so as to secure uniformity of administration, And was not that what they had been struggling for ? Had it not been their desire, when they were going on colonizing, to bring about that civilisation which was now only dawning upon them ? The natives desired peace equally with the Europeans, at least he had found it so in the province of Auckland, and he hoped to see the day when his honourable friend would not have to come out with armies, assisted by Lieut.-Colonels and their forces, to subdue the natives, and to bring them into subjection to the Queen and to her laws, and to make good colonists and neighbours of them, He did not say that as an enthusiast, but from his own practical experience, for he could assure his honourable friend that the natives were loudly calling for peace and quiet, and very many had expressed their determination to live under the

. .Queen's::.;laws: arid: ; in;■ subjection;;^.'them-.: iThaf was a : matter%liicli'Bli6uld : .nnt:be Jcept ' put.,of}; view. ■ :;Buf ■ if : they, -.claimed' 'tU'e; ; management.-' - oiE r -;N.iiiiy(j;.- affairsj;-. the,-... Jloiis'e; "slioulcljloofcto■ any:-contingency; ■ that -might: ■■afterwards- arisl*,.giving the. people of- '.lie. : Northern.; isliiihi the means, of- improving the natives byeinplouiig them on -puiilip -'.works',:. ■but at. th'j s.iine time placing them, in it '■■ position flint; if any emergency • arise-by which tliey-iii'ghthocalied-upon-to -:rise ; a:defensive force, .they should 'have-the.: nieaiis'fordoing so'amongst themselves, lie; maintained that theaetiim-of that -.House ihd .bring about Unit slate Of affairs into which, they irai been unfortunately plunged, and oiitoNiii-h-'they wire now happily enierg-; ■in'" Init iie-irii'ste'd-t-lie Committee .would look 'upon the matter in that light, ami would.consider that they were dealing eonsiileriitely and wisely with the colony at, large, and that it-would he no longer .nt'Cssiiry'to .supply •money tor keeping-tip a.standing army in.the front Ii; hut that they Were enabling the people, of the North to .practise self-reliance, which would for ever do away wiih the necessity of going to war with men who, up to the eoh.i'iiien.cement of the bite-war, had. been not only the best producers mid working colonists they ever had, but also consumers- of imported goods ft)' Suc- an extent ascnntriljutod largely to the- revenue of the colony in the time of its struggles-and its poverty. Mr A. S. Atkixsox, in reference to the remarks of the lion, member for AVesl'laird, Syitli which lie could not agree, stated that, in. the province of faranaki, the liist shot thiitdiad'been iifed wiis about six months 'ago','wlicii.aii■ unfortunate iii'a'n was waylaid aridshqt dowhhy the Natives, and scarcely,'any'efforta'iiati been made to bring the uiur- ; 'derersto justice, 'and what efforts liuri been , niaje were of a very peaceful character.,, aiid '. ■h'a'(icertainly hot resulted in any loss of life td'the .Maoris. It Was with a view'id' stating, that fact that lie got up, in order that 'such an utter inisrepresentation of the real state .'of affairs as that- iiidiCiitcd by the lion, member might not he allowed to pass without remark. Mr Hall had not intended to speak if it bad not been for the new character the debate litid Assuiiiedj mid for the remarks of Kisijdrior the Superintendent of Auckland, That honourable gentleman, in referring to. the speech.which he was sure they .ill'heard with the greatest . pleasure, and lie hoped with great profit, from the . lion, member the -Superintendent pf ; Hawkc ; s Bay, hat disputed the position assumed by that hon. member, and the burden of his (Mr. Williamson's) 'argument, seemed to lie that, inasmuch as their Maori fellow-subjects were being brought by the. ■ conversion of the tenure of their land into , Grown Grants, aiid. by other processes into'-, closer contact with.the system of municipal, governments aiid the courts of law, it had' -.become almost a necessity that the •management of Native should be ban- ; ded over to the Superintendent—that was, if he (Mr Hall) understood liis argument. It appeared to him that the lion, gentleman's argument was not supported by his facts. It was perfectly ■true that by.the conversion of the tenure of .

"'Native lands', the Natives we're brought into, closer pen tact with the municipal system, and' ■ were subject to have their land sold for the . noh-payniebt of rate.9| but in so far as that : was ; the. case, they" were ipso facto brought under the ordinary Government of tli&cbinir ■ try, arid' it ..ffas: not necessary; to make the ..special;:■ provision., for. them which the .-resolution; was.;...understood ..to aim at. ..: He'. ..'would. : -Venture; '.to. .say ,■ that the O f? assimilating, .or. .fusing -the two races, \vduld;be to niake no such pro,vision on the subject. ;■ 'As,the. ..natives come itbhold their land on the. same:'terms'as Europeans;' so would they, in the, natural order , ; .of. things'; cohie under the same'laws... the .honourable gentleman' had given 6ne,.6r,tivi) reasons'-which'' lie (Mr HaU);.thought should . make the House pause before-it. adopted any .'proposals; whicli;-would .Jiaye: tiitfpeffect; pi : plaeiiig ■ the entire;. government-.'': of.. Native' ■■'■■'afifairs'j.ia-v.-.'tfe;-;'/ bauds, K;hot'; ; of ,ithe Superintendents, but also of. the i'rovin-: >; dial Legislatures. ;'Although;; the ; resolutions: ; were!not very; definite,;'aiid although- tlie r mover did not in his remarks tell them precisely how; far. he would-;wish to'go in. thatparticular direction in which these resolutions tended," they ? must gather 'from ..what had 'fallen from the Superintendent of Auckland ■that lie would, 'go to: very great lengths; at ■ the same'-time'.-he.had pointed out that the ' ; native's■'•■'■'!wereL ; '. more'- 7willing;;;■'to■.- : ',-"sell.-; -.. ■■ their lands -.to. ■■ tlie \ Superintendent-.': than ...to...private..individuals; and -he-had-plainly-: .given tliem;.to..understand tliat this':was ; a ....niore desirable system;thanthiisale to.private. ■■■individuals; ;.He. would' not';; say■'tbatjlie-'dif-. ■;■. fered;■ ;frbm the.lioii..member -on tliat. pointy ;,Jut;.this;cbhsideralion should make'the;House; .■■; : yery.:cauti^ ■ dents in a.-pbsition ; of absolute authority,with ■■■;' reference-to the.Native's;..-'. they 'conceived', -it" ; : 'to:..betlieir duty to:.acquire '':&'. considerable:. ■amount of territory .for 'the benefit.;6f.-.tlie : r province. Wasthe-House to hand overiuch' "authority:.to,orScers..:aiixiuu3 toacquire;Con- ;''' siderabfe.:tracts .of ...■Native-ian'd.?'. The. honourable gentleman, had really! given them.' 'areason'.why:it.;TOuid;-nptbe.'rigiiM'at,tlie : House' Bhould.aban.dbn the prpte'ction btthe .Natives; in that ..respect, He- thought., his ; honourable friend would be the, last person to--V'ni'ake an unjust use of that powerj butliuman. . nature was human nature, and they should; not. expose any persons, in his.position ..to ■suet a .'temptation, the. Hon. member had ■ pointed, but a variety of ways in which -;a local government, could deal more effectively ,-witli-.Native, questions.' than a more distant Government could. The Government did not. deny that such cases existed inconsiderable ; numbers, but he was sure the House would /.admitthat ithad,,nPtOnly in words butin actjons,. shewn its appreciation of that very : thing.. What had; the Government done with.; .regard .to the .Superintendent of Hawke's .Bay'?;; Had .theynot.worked entirely. with .. .and through, that hon. member.?. \Vhat did. ;th'ey"'dbwith' Reference h the predecessor of the hbh.. memher fur.:Auckl'aiid;;?. Did they, riot avail.. knowledge and : :influencei in every way, and had/they shewn any indisposition to.'. work- .with the hon. member himself ?. Had -that'nondurable';, gentleman hejd:put.his.hand and asked them to,work with, him ?. . the hon. member knew he had-not done so,;and that. there, had been! no.indisposition on the; part of. the Govern.■'. , mentHo.corpperate with liirn... He.waV'sure: that were . ; that honourable., gentleman desirous, of doing so,. it Would '.-■■ be. a desirable, thing" ,fpr ihe:,\ Governmeht to avail.themselves of ■■. local.. knowledge and inflti ende.,.-. But he,, would endeavour to give. ..one... reason more .why tliey could hot; . abandon the.control ;pf ; Affairs! altogether, to persons stariiling in the'pbsitipn of the;hon/member, ; aiid : !tliat : waß'that practically the colonyat large could not escape from •the^ responsibility, -in all parts of. ~land, of the. resuitsAof Of ; -Native Alfairo. Wherever they might be>if! - that mismanagement should bringabout'war, ; the. resuhs mustfallupori the colony;- -That was, he, thought, a conclusive- reasbiv'whyV desirous, as the : Colonial. Government were to co-operate with local authorifevtli^could^ ~, not abandon the power wlieretheycould not : ,: divest themselves of responsibility. There .;,wm pne;other point which, the House- would : ' ...he waß,sure,,see the.force.of.'. It'wai'a .simple historical'fact,'Which woiildrenik-r. the' ; ;hon. .member's. position : unsatisfactory and undesirable.;, VYhat would Jiave been -the result, supposing .he Imd had the entire ; managpmerit of Native.affiiirs during the past ■■■.,'year ) .,whcn ■.disturbances took- place on the'' ■ East coast of tlie Northern. Island, in. the . jproviiice of Auckland;, altlioii^h.'-near the ; bordOTfdf.tbe-llawke's.Biiy.proyince? Those ■distuVbancesweredeiiltwithin a.:vwv. jujj-:-cidus"and siicct-ssf ul; inanneY by the -Siiperiii--. ;;.lendent■ofHa^vke'B;lky i .as.fi:e:ageni^o£;tlU! ... /Government, who. had .availed theinselycs,«if ■ :.hi« services;'and ;v.ith;:tlielK-st. results. ]sm if the managemenl;bf "Nat.ivt-.affiirs iiithit : ; part of the.prbvince of'Auc]claniT.':iiad,res.ti'd. ' with theTSupmritendent, of-..A ifclilaiiil, tlie ' Superintendent', of ' Iliiwke's ;Bay wduU] not. have been able to use his'-influence 1 amisettle matter's in the smiie happy way. that, had Jjeeif, done, He niiglit.'"'givb. inaiiy oilier illns'trat lions of the same kiu I if-Ihi-y-u'eru'iiec-'dedi ■ Sir Williamson sii'idUhat' the'; I.i mrahli'e: . gentlemun forgot tliat'-'diiriiig■■.'ilii.i-fi.ine'.'.tlis , Superintendent of Auck'and. Was age.iit 'for.

the.General Government, but had received 116: 'iristnicticiiis;..^ ; ";;v;.; ; - : ' ?"'v:V

'■■/Mr Hall said that Hnwke'e Bayj:from .its ■ proximity, to the scene of .disturbance; was by I far'the'/ibestplaceirom which-"to'v'deai;with. .;tiieiiffair.\..',■'..■:;.;;./:;;';, ; y'v;r : -;-.-;-y v'.; „..Question ptit,' < --Tiiat;'thc;words;proposed.to "he lei't-.o'ntdp sfnnd'parf of,the question,?'and: " negatived.. .:.,":,., ..'. "... : ~', ... :.'■ ..'/Mr;' Cka'Cuoft'., Wilson, .(3; ..inquired' ■■■.whe'ther.''.asseiit'to,;th'e'.!.queslm members f0 the.apprpVaTof tlie.Qiniiiiittee. ■ ,Thev.MyUKKi't- i ~'... .■Mivt'AiiiiiiTqN, uppiithe, ..'qucstiqiu thiit.the ■woril-i proposed..to.-b'e-iiisertedlie .so.insefteii, moved- the iuneiidinent, of which lie had given ..notice... ; . ..'.-" ... ■' .".. ' Mr, J; O.'NiiiLL secondetl. the amendment. ■ Question :put,v 'riiiitUhe;wprils.proposcd to be left Put, stand ]?art of.the amendment," .Giirried in .thejiinrmatiyc.. . Motion: as aniended;rea;di and.questibn put.'- . Mr']).' McLiiANtliougiit fluit, the commit fee. should' be elected, by ballot. ..It'diiljipt.look well to. sceltciiinposcdalinpst -altogether : of 'Sujie'i-iiiteiiiicntSi and. .although willing iiimseif to serve if-the '-irouse-iiesired it,,.he. tiipught it Avoiild look .fairest if tiie -Committee instead Of being nominated' was chosen by ballot. Mr Williamson- seconded tho proposal for a ballot. The Si'iakHit said it .was. necessary..-..that tlic.'House should '-first agree.to -tile .inotioii without.;tho. naiiieS of. the: member's, of the. Comniittee.. 'iiieiv.theeelectipn.o.f the Goinmlttee would be made by;ballptj if demanded ■by any.lion, member. .'.,.,.. Questipa put/iiiid- niptipii agreed to, leaying put nanies of the. Gbiiimittee, ;" The".Speaker iib\v; said thiit.the House coi)id; ; ]iroce'ed to /elect :.by baliot, under tlie ; 181 st ciiiuse,.of.the ; .Staii'diirg:Orders'., . : Mr Dillon' Bell . was iiedessury that the -election..should-be.-at with. If it;was. not;riecessary r .he, would earnestly -entreat the. House totaKe time to consider on whom they..;wonid. impose the arduous and : responsible-duty Of making the inquiry, proposed... For ~ his, own part he would enter oh it with other -duties with, a very heavy seiisa : of the responsibility he was assuming,, for the inquiry'. absolutely , 'touched the very foundations of the Government of the colony. : Had an opportunity oft'ered/before,Jie would hayeiaised'liis vpice : .agaiiist ohepf..tiie,iiiost important matters which had agitated the Hpuse.fo.r.a long time,being, thus dealt, with, but.as tliellbuse bad decided.tliat.it should; ,be,,lie.hoped lie should not be 'thought irnpertine,nt;if 'heasked that the ballot ..might be postponed, soas to give members ail opportunity of very, carefully. considering .to. whom it; should :cohtide the.difficult task.a ssigned to the committee.. lie-hoped, tiiat. thiscqiisideratipiv. would be,given without .'reference to feelings of party, or to'the lipstiii.ties.Be'tween parties, and that; they wo'u'd select tlipse most competent; and best qualified to advise,,on the: decision,Of wliich-dejiehded, he believed,'■ the -happy issue.pf a ■cpntiiiued,,eoi)flict pnquestipiis -which hadlong agitated the ..colony. .

■ : . The SrEAKEK ruled., that ..the ballot was a part.pf the pWceeding3,,and.rnust go on., Tlie ballot wasjakeiii, aii(i ; ti.ie:Spealcer. de-r glared tliat the choice of i\ie .Hpuse'liad fill lea '..on Messrs McLean,.J?eatherstpn,,Macaiidrew, Hall, .VVilliamson/J.G.;i{ic!im6nd,.Ludlam, ■.Dillon Eell, and Carleton. These geiitienierij ! with the mover, therefore formed, the comnfiict.ee. Thursday, July' 25. disqualification bill. Air Reynolds, in moving the' second reading of this bill said: it. was not a new bill tothe House; -.a similar one had been introduced into the.House iii tlie session of 1865 by the lion, gentleman who was. now at the head of the Government. That Bill, though nptexactly the same, was of a very similar na'ture; ; and: was introduced in pursuance of: a resolution whichit. might*: be as well for him to read/ : ltesolTed—.'! That it Is contrary .to :the' usage of Parliament: and derogatory to .tlie'cliaracter and estimation of this House, that.any of its members should, .hold.any .'office; or-place of'profit or emolument in the ■:public;service of .New Zealand; This House : is therefore of opinion that, with a view to. securing .the ireedom. and: independence of .Parliament,, anil .guarding .its.idighity '■ and ■authority;™person .'who shal.i;.ho]d■.'an'y'■.■office■ or .place/of emolument or profit, (except snch as'niay'forthe, time;;,be'held in.connection with the office of a; : M'inistH:o'f'-th'e'-Crbwn-:i'n.-'New.Zealand) l ;..pr:wiip shall liave,.in.whole or ;in part;, any'contract;: on account of :the public .service,:sh6uld be capableof being elected, or of' sitting cr voting- as \a:;niember; : of; this House, during the time that he.shall.iipld or : erijoy. aii'y.:br^ce' : or.>.p.i'Rce.'bf .prqrit..orr.cbntracjt l : pr;any benefit or emolument arisihg.f rorh the same" ; The bill passed; thrbugli tlie first and second reading; it was then:committed, aiid: while iniebmmittee .the hon, gentlemen (Mr Stafford)' changed. places, in. .the; House "anil took a seat oh the benches. It.was hear the close of the session; the time of the House, was.very fully occu- : pled, and they had .been sitting a -long time; It was, therefore, thought advisable ■hot to press forward; business like, this at so late; a period of : the; session, and In consequence: if; was discharged from- the order paper. But ;at that time-niany-hpn-memr befs;whe werei'stiiiVih; the... Hpus'e wpuhlremember the. measure met with, v.ery.:general support';: and lie thought it must lie admitted that it was;a.. matter ■ of. the .'Utmpsf■irtipor-; tancethat the ll,ouse:shpuldbe : kept:aspure as possible from the: fear. of. its .members sacrificing tlie .interests of.their constituents,, and of tlie colony,,- to tiie, chance of: geftitig a : lucr;afi.ve-apbpint;ment. : .;--He-did that there;had :been any danger:.hitherto, but he thoughtlliat; it was just the .time to deal with- a questiph. like this, .when rib present danger existed.,-. Ther« was:at presentin that House one. member/receiving Government -emolument.';' and. there Vwere, he believed, six in-the Legislative .Council,, irrespective:of the ;membefs,of .the.Governnient, the .Hont the Speaker, and tiie'-. chair-., .man:of'cpmmittees.;; Now. the second.ciause ■ of: the.:bill, which. he:had: before b'im, provided: that, no salaried ::.officer of, tiie .General Government should:^sit; or ; .vote : as'a : member. of the LegislatiyeCpuncil House, of ilepreT sentalives, or. of':.any: Pfbyiricial Council,' oi ■aicf ■as: f .;supe'rinte'naenf ; of :.a. : ■prbvince.;'He.. •believed there woald.;be..'someobjection made to this clause,;hut;tiie;'objectioh; : siiould'be raised in, 'committee^;.iThere had also .been sOme: amendments to:. him;, winch he would "have--; hp 'objection ■ to'-.cpri--sideririg at - that; exceptionsV:tp: this ..second: clausev-iwere.;; the responsible, advisers,.of tlie Crown, the; members : o'f. PrbYineial Executives, officers in" her Majes- ': 'X'?,.; army. and-;!-'na-'yy;' "bfflcefß.and' .militiamen .of thei Colonial.forces, not being on'the'per;mahent:;stafr; and i officers or; members ;'pf Volunteer corps; ,;;Clauße;3i,.merely exacted ithaUli.contractors' directlyor indirectly interested in. contracts for. : the Government, .should be;disquaiiQedfrom holding a seafin that Houseor. tlie Legislative Council. Clause .4 provided.that a seat should become .'vacant: when the holder .became interested iri any" .contractor office of profit under the Government.. excepted shareholders in public companies; and clause 6 speakers and chairmen of committees in the House'of Hepresentfttives,: Legislative Conncil,' or ■Provincial: Councils. Clause 7 enacted ii penalty of £50::; a. week against any person being' a of,the Legislative. Council or House of; .ltepresentattvts, : : ; or. who, within twelve 'months'; after ceasing to.'lipldji" scat,should accept any office or placVbiemolument under the.Crpwn, excepting the offices before meiitimied,ybY thpse;of;Jtidge of'tlife;Supreme; Court,or .attoniey .or.Bolicitdr-general.; : .lie '.fad.heard: ohjectiohs made to' this clause,' be-': Ciiise H proyideil-thafno bne'hcing'a member <>f that- House .slio.iii'd' lioldiuiy office of "profit until- he had/ceased to beiiihemberfor twelve ■ inontlu,-, (if. C 6urse,lf tiie''Bill;Avas^aiioived: to.fi<> into:ciiiniittie; aitliougii lie wouU'iiot. -v." e ioiva .r.e.luetipii..of ■ that.'ti'mci.lieVwimhi-' »»t: olyect tp a;^nsideratioti-;of',any; ;au|e I ,do,ent.that:.wp,,!d.;',,ot;aicsfri,yxtlnJ ;.P'|MC,ple:;of:-,the., H i ll,,'The. ;i ih l imns :.»f-^! W ;,r 4 : .were j ;that,a..p e naltyof: ;^uii ..sh(niWw l lf l; lly, :() if d ,d;.a ) , ! ,i, ls t; 1 l,e..Act;hur ■ ).e.s,.ctu,i l .il,d;n ) it: apply lo^oy/^ei^m^ho ; l)tc;linc a ~,^|b SI ; ft l;;,thM)ei,erai.As S e,hbly; ■';r-'.!!e 1 .1.-i(ii-olljc-.i:.-]i;-f,.re. the' Actrame- iiti WW t>uch,. pers nisMiuiiii; iiii :: :tlie ; ir..seiitsj.or:resig;n-their ollices o'f' : .-'tiiiui,i.' incut, .. Then-, section 9 provided tiiut .the

Governor iiv Council could appoint any 'mem-; berof;;the ; General; Assembly to ah office of. emolumehi: under ilio Crown',; notice of;: the appointment ...-beingV inserted-iriHlie and such person, would be qualified to sit. anil vide in 'pointuient .was:,ra'tified' -w i thi 11;; tl li r ty: day a 'aficr/t |e ; .coniiHcn'ccineht.of-the session. -Ttioi object of .this' was.'.'tliiit there .hiiglit.be 'stances. inuiiiuor of .lliu'-Assembly.

: ;\v6 : iild' :bo; admirably emolument inl/cohncctiqn'-'-iyith.tho. Gp.verti-. ■merit of thet colony,.iinil iLivduld btj.dcsir.ablu to•'make the .appoiiitinent.' Thorp had been during .tlie : last recess'-t\yp members of .iliiit .House.;.who,' every ..one, would admits S*!er6thoroughly competent tp fill such' appointliicuts; lie. alluded, to Mr PitzGerald and Mr Crosliie Ward. ' -.

Mr-STAi'-roni).: .1 ■ beg; to state .that.the- ■' Government liaii nOtliing.whatevcr to »iiy t.i the apppiutiiient of Mr ■ Groshie Ward; 'l'hat geiiti.eniaii.wa.s appointed, by the Provincial ■ Government of Canterbury, nsageiit fpr.'thiit .province,;, nor did -the General Government i'lt.now... any thing of his iip|)pintn.ieiit untila 'month after.-it had-been iii.iiile.; 1-' state this distinctly, because 1 see, that luv.im'pressipn prevails out/of this House that Mr Wardwas appointed by the Genera. ..Government;,-:! noticed in a journal, .either to-day or ;y.ester-. :-day, ii,statement that he was an plficer of. the : General Government, and- that statement lias beim-constantly made; I therefore -beg' -distinctly to-say-that the Government- had nothing, to-do-, with, bis appointment, and. were ■no-more interested in it than, in.thatof Mr. Carr Xoung as agent for the province ...of:' Otagc,

Mr RiJY.NOLDS. was certain the- hpn'b.urable. gentleman would exonerate- him: froiu. miymisinterpretation, of the facts, but hefelt.sure, -.that -had the .honourable; gentleman -at the head of the Government inade. the, appoint: meiit, the: House iypu'ld have been, glad:: to ratify it; .He tiiought: that lie had-.now sulH-. cieiitly referred, to the provisions of the bill ■ which he proposed .for' second. r'eadihg,..and he felt cpHviiiced; the bill would, -meet, with; the approval of the House; because a/simllar. biil.liadbeeii introduced in a previous sess.io.il. by the •lion member now nt the head of, the: . Goveriiindnt.; and though- there were many hew members in the House, it woulil iiot,as ; a whole, stultify- itself by dissenting from the ..principles laid: down in. a respl.lit.lbn which it had beforeassented.to. Mr Stawoud.could hardly bring himself to believethat the JlOll iiiemberretijly .thought this bill would, pass, and he did.not consider tlie honourable gentlemen had acted ingenuously in. professing -"that his bill was based' upon:a resolution of fhe.Hpuse passed in.lSli.i, andvin proceeding, to assure the House that: it was similar iii principle to.that. re-, solution..:.. The honourable gentleman ;read: the resolution,- it was true, and then uu.blusliingly appealed to the House to say. that his bill: was framed on it, lie would ask hoi:., members, to read this resolution and see if .. there was any■ reference whatever in it to : tlie Legislative Gouiicil, Provincial Councils, or. Superintendents of provinces. There was nothing of the sort, anil the bill no.v before them went completely outside of-that resolu, tipn, nor ,was it at.-all in accordance with the ■•bill which he {Mr Stafford) had. introduced in ,1865. The history of that bill was this; it met with general ■•acceptance, and was read a I second, time without-a. division.:. After takingoifice. he. moved that tiie bill be committed, and it was committed, ;but before a single section was passed, all kinds of amendments nvere.either given notice of or suggested from : every part of tlie House ; some of which were intended to destroy the bill altogether, whileothersmight perhaps have improved it. He got au intimation that ii' he persevered iyitli the bill when the House had almost reached, the.-termination of the session, and When members were riot desirous of long discussions on a bill which would not be passedi: lie W.iuld be only keeping back ii«pbrtant work that had to be got through. He then consented to postpone the bill, and he was:now prepared to take it up again with certain additions suggested at the time of its 1 .beingpostppned, which lie was quite, willing tip ..accept But he contended that there -.should :be a provision iii any such ■bill for the absolute exclusion ,frpni that House of all office-holders : whose salaries -were' paid- from: - tiie public revenues. It was a question of justice to tlie House itself, that office-holders in. the provinces should be excluded who: only ciiin'e. into-it.'to secure so niuch of the revenue as was satisfactory to themselves:- if they were- : tp haye.:pure action in.'tliiifc'Hqus'ej let them not pass sii-h a.sham as this blii, but go to the root of the eviland keep: Out all: persons who had nn interest in tlie revenue of tiie .colony so far as their salaries are concerned'. That was ;in intelligible provision.aiid if the honourable gentleman, would consent to his bill being altered so as to meet it, he would Buppprt.: the. second reading. If the: lion, geiitiemaii would only promise, to do this, and;give to the biltthe support of the party; vyitb which.he acted,'lie (Mr Stafford):would' not oppose the passiiig of the measure,.which:! he; most decidedly would do in. its- present shape.: He.mustsay, however, that lie did• ript.tiiink that House should, without; raucli more.consideration,: propose a bill affecting the other liranch-of::'the. Legislature. ,lle tlioughthe. heard the lionoUrable gentleman .state.tha't'there were at least six -persons, iii the other House who werereceiving.pay from ; tiie Government, He it, and -he had a pretty good opportunity of knowing who were there. He had, however, cursprily.,looked.into another question, aiid. .without; hay ing-.tirne to go rleep.'ly:. in to. i t,: he -found that there: were,iii the Hoiise '.. of-, itepresentatives fifteen members receiving :pay under Proyincial Gpyeriimehts-inore. than one. fifth of the whole: Hpuse-r-who"werV iibyf. seeking, te. pass a measure, which would: have. the. .effect of abspiutely.incapacitating tlipse wlioiri: they, looked, upon as their cal opponents from[taking.part in'the legisia-. tip.ndf the country, because:: they had lakeii opposite sides to tliera in what .they, called: tlieantagonism: of : provincialism and central Isrri. ..He .denied that tiiere wiis necessiirily such an.:, antagoiiism, -at alt eyertts so.- far.as the' General Goyernihentwas concerned;; aiid: he; could assert that he liad alway'aheld''outthe bandof friendship tp the 'Provinces..' He appealed, to boh; .members who..:were ..also. ihipeniitenderits,:i-and'f asked, ..them;-.--'if.•■'.■t.li'ey.;.' cpi'Wpoint toi ; a' ; .single Ihstahce in.whichiiV iiad/not:donesp,;with. One, : ;imfortunatei3x-i, ception',: .which-;had pome before;tlie House "only .Afewiays ago.' Tiiere was.nPta single 1 . sugVestipn -rnade; by ,thehv : tliat- ■was:.npV;receiyed .iiy'liiin...and treated.with every,atten- : tion.cHe wouid;even; :go;;further, aiid; say; that'lie had;steppe.d;'put-.of:' his way.'to• invite their opinions andViconsvilt thernupim'iriiport-: ant'qu'estipna'i eveii :wiien the. Government i were not'called: upon to (16 Bp,.iind,wiiere.in stthilar cases it;iiau nbtlieeh thepractice ofprevious. .Ministers tp-: do :so. .He therefore denied that';, there-;was'any, reasbh.to tielieye; that' there.: existed,any antagphisni-betweeii,' the General anil.Proviheial Giiyeripen.ts. ; ; -.The,hour, of half past'flve o'clock haying; arrived: the Si'KAiciiß 'left .. .Oh theVHiiuse resuming iit;,seveii, . . .: Mr Stafford ;said tiiatiwhea .the debate; wasladjouriiedj lie had stated that' iiewasuot aware:that there were six paid bffieers-.of the. Gqverhment-iri;theLegislativeCpuncii..; He; had found, ..however,, since then, tliat'he liad'. omitted to .reckon paid militia officers, He/ had;only.-.referred Üb;: civil:pfflcers..of...the General ,Goverri|iient, iahdVimlitiii -officers: could hardly :,be supposed to .be ih the saiiie ;j)psitwn,as,:civiidflicers of tile p'oyerhiiientj; .because,in Knglaiid, in the: lliiuse. of.:. Coihrmbns. 'as.'.wcli;as,in'tjie Ilouseof T Lpriis,Pilic : ers:; iii the' aniiy aiid ritiyy- were: ailowe 1. to'hold: seats,.notwitiisiand.ing the.greatjpaloiisyt.iiat body had.alwiiy.s.eyi'iicuti:lit baying., amongst .its.ra'iiks.nieinbtrs who-.received' iiiiy.suiii'ry; .fro'ni.: the piiblie reyciiiips:- ■' 'The -■.pi-kcticaf" .cifectl'qf "those, six-officers lit theiiegisiatjve.: 'oo'ini cii .'was.; siiijlUsi en t ty/il l'ua tra tci.d" when ■ tl i'ey!.' : ' considered that- four out of. the'six- were.;. ;Hl).seiitii'i.;'tlip preseiitsessimi, which.(lid./iVot.'display/any-' very great amount of-: "lear, favour,;'or a(tl-'ctionV : towards, .thd -Gov'-./riV-'nien'l:,':iu'i(l..'oiie of-the -four, liad. beep absent. .for.t.li(! ; liist^llirct! 7 SL'Ssiphs.. Tho fiict.was: that'. Willi .members of the .Legislative ■(,'ouocij it. fw'as'.-.of litiic .'cbiiscquei'iuc, lis- .ciiinpiireil '.'wi.tli.ineniliers of- that Itouse,. whether .-they, were-'r.'Ct-iviiig salaii'S -.form-- the- pi'ibiic-re'-..vt'iiiii'S-oriiot-,. It vv-is -iii acltiinwle.lgC'l-fact aliiif-.n0.. Goycrnniciit could rem tin iii .office that.did not. pjsscssthc confidence of that.

■'.House; and the other branch of the Legislature could really not retain in offlco for one liour a Government which that House had should not remain in office, if ■the iion, gentleman would promise to amend . tho bill in the way he (Mr Stafford) had ''mentioned, the Government would support him and yive every assistants to enable him to pass it, but it was not possible that it could .'pitssiu its present shape. Ho might remark, iitrefcreiice to tho 'Jth clause, that ho could .npt-':un:lerstand it. If ho read the clause aright, it really rendered the previous clause null -and void. Notwithstanding that a penalty ! was.-imposed upon any one who might sit in .that house if they happened to hold office under the General Government, in the Oth clause there was a proviso that they should not. be liable. Those objections were, however, merely mutters of detail, which were ..caiiidile of explanation and alteration in Committee, and he should be very glad to give iiHasMstanccin Committee if the lion, member would honestly and openly accede to the proposition which he now made, so that the bill•• -might be put into such a shape that it would meet with the acceptance cf the Heuso.

:.. ,Mr.-.CiuciioFr Wilson, C.8., begged tp express his thanks to the lion, member for Diiuedin for having brought io, or attempted to bring in n bill which would have the effect ofpiirifying the freedom of Parliament; but he trusted the lion, member, in introducing ; such,a measure, would not allow it to be a partial one, which the bill in the bands of iioii. members certainly was. To exclude .one; .or two officers from the House ..because they happened to receive what wpre termed tho funds of the General Governjneiif, was simply to scotch the snake and let, the brood escape unharmed. Was any ,member going to tell'him that there was any .-difference between the general and provincial .funds? He understood the general revenue tO;be,tliat derived from Customs; that surely belonged to the Colony of New Zealand, and if /a portion of that was given to provinces under,the denomination of three-eighths,it .was'still the revenue of the colony, and those wiio,received portions of those three-e ; ghths as salaries were just as much liable to imputations for whatever votes they might give -inihiit House, as any member who received a.salar.y direct from the General Government. . He trusted the lion, member would .'admit, of additions ,to his Act, that would exclude from the House every person who received a salary from the funds of the colony, General or Provincial. Was it not notorious that, the chief magistrates of the provinces liad of late years interfered both in dismissing.an, old Ministry and in inaugurating a .new o.iie ? It would be absurd in him (Mr Wilson) to allow for a moment that he was ■■ignorant of such a fact, which was patent to allpf them, and could there be a greater abuse, of power than that—that men holding the office of chief magistrate should make ft almost a duty of theirs to dismiss a Ministry ifroni office every nine months or so, and to introduce a new Ministry, and to coax and wheedle men into accepting office, which, but for that coaxing and wheedling, they would not have done ? And should he be told, that members so acting, because they happened to receive provincial money, which was really the money of the Colony, were not to be.excluded from that House ? If the lion, member would extend the purport of the Act, spas; to include all persons drawing salaries from tlie funds of the colony, provincial or general, he (Mr Wilson) would vote with him for tiie'second reading; but if he wished to make it a party business, if he might use the terni, a sort of dot-and-go-one step towards the measure they desired to obtain, then he should vote against them. He might allude totlie debutes of last session, for they were a matter,of history, The lion, member knew wellthathe (Mr Wilson) then gave notice for the introduction of a morality clause, which .notice might have been the cause why the bill was dropped so suddenly by the member novf at the head of the Government; and he would ask the hon. member to accede to his proposal this year, to have a morality clause in that Act, He entreated him not to allow it to be said in the world or in the press that the standard of morality in that House was less than that of an ordinary turf club, The morality of a jockey-club was notoriously lax, and let it not be said that they .possessed a lower standard. He gave notice that he would introduce a clause in committee excluding all persons who had been guilty of certain offences from holding seats In. that House.

Mr.Tiuviius should certainly support the •second rending, because it affirmed a principle which/ ought to be adopted not only in the ■Legislature of the colony, but also in the Provincial Legislatures. He iiad taken upon himself, as a member of the Provincial Council of Canterbury, recently to introduce an. Ordinance having the object of excluding from . the Council persons who held offices chargeable upon the revenues of the province .—prohibiting, in fact, the appointment of .member's of the Provincial Council to any ■-office- of profit, either while they were actually members or for a period of six months after .tliey had ceased to hold seats in the Council. /That bill received the strenuous opposition of 'the Government of the province; but notwithstanding that, it was passed at a comparatively early period of the session by a Considerable majority. The Superintendent of Canterbury, however, without deigning to honour the Provincial Council with his views on the measure, or his objections to it, took upon.: himself at the close of the session to disallow; it. He (Mr Travers) conceived that a measure of that kind was eminently necessary..for that colony—a colony where democratic,, institutions were carried to their utmost,:]iiiut. It was of the greatest consequence that there should be some measure of the kind in the provincial institutions, which would tend to preserve political purity. He noticed- a very remarkable exception in the ■.Act;-'arid he was at a loss to see to what that ■exception might be due; but he wa9 afraid it originated in that peculiar provincialist view with.wliich men were apt to look at questions of that-kind, because, although it was not ■'lawfulj'-liy the 7th clause, for any man who wiis -a. member of the Legislative .Council'" or House of Representatives, to .hold any office of emolument ■during that time, or for twelve months after he.ceased to be a member, there was nothing said about members of the Provincial Council. He trusted when the bill came to be considered in committee—and he hoped it would gps'o-far at all events—that that clause ..would be extended to members of the Provincial Uuuncils in the colony, so as to prohibit the exercise of that partisan patronage which, it appeared to him, had always been exercised in various parts of the colony in a manner detrimental to the purity of its institutions. He was glad to find that in that House the introduction of the measure had been received with favour, and he hoped it would teach Provincial Governments that if they chose to disregard the wishes of representatives elected in their own province, they 'would be compelled to regard the wishes of the representatives of the whole colony in a 'matter involving the purity of their representative institutions. He hailed with satisfaction a measure of that nature, although he took exception to one portion of the bill, and lie trusted that no such exceptional proviso as that in the 9th clause should be allowed to remuih in the Statute Book if the bill passed ;into : law:< v;:Mr said that, although he did not'sec that they had anything to do with the Provincial Councils, he thought any person ..receiving any Biliary from the public revenues should beexeluded from that House. He should ■ s'tippnil.with much pleasure, the second reading of- the bill, as he believed the principle was a good one; and although it might not ho beces'ary just then, the time might not he ■ far distant when the bill mUht he found to be.a very useful thing to secure the indupendcnc«',,and freed mi of that Mouse, lie \klieved tlirtt if every one receiving any salary wer'ei.'.excluded, questions would receive a fuller; and freer investigation than they did at .prevent.-, iMrMooitiiou.si-: said that, with reference (o; ■ (he ■ remarks of the lam. member for •l-'lj'risidiureli City, he could say th it, as Nnpcrinteiiihmt of the province of Cai'rer'hiiry, .he did refuse his assent to a hill which M'.dlieenjmssed by a majority of the I'ro;v.iiiiitiil.C<ni! oil, and he said it nut npn , p IM -. siinal,:gj'ounil.s—he thought the lion, member woiild"ailiiiit thiit-httl because, in hh legis-

lative capacity as Superintendent of the province, he believed that after the province had elected bo largo a number of what must bo taken to be its men, there were not a sufficient number left outside, who were acquainted with the conduct o£ the public business, out of whom to nia'<e choice in the event of the Government requiring their official services. Jn point of fact lie might state to the House that his reason for dissenting from the bill was, that he thought it had a tendency to emasculate the province Ho thought that leading men in the provinces ought not to shrink from taking upon themselves the responsibility of serving the public in the Provincial Council, when they were asked by a majority of their constituents to take that position. He would suggest to the House another view of the case. They knew well that in all legislatures of the character of that Assembly, and in Provincial Legislatures, majorities were often stolen by accident as it were, and ho was in possession of facts proving that the majority in the Council on the occasion referred to was an accidental one (No.) lie was not called upon, however, to give an explanation of all his reasons for dissenting from hills passed by the Provincial Council, but he believed sufficient reasons were given by the I'rovinciarGovernnient at tho proper time for disapproving of the measure. With regard to Superintendents having seats in thatj House, ho could not mistake the lion, member for Coleridge. That lion, member had, he believed, a great objection to Superintendents having seats in that house. Ho (Mr Moorhouso) admitted that he was pail by the province, and it was very possible that if the lion, member himself had an opportunity of filling the very distinguished place he held, that lion, member would not consider it dishonourable to accept something towards defraying the very great expenses attendant upon the position. The hon. member, referring to his own experience, must know that it was not considered any reproach in the European or Indian service to accept very large emoluments for valuable services. It was not, therefore, to be assumed that the receiving of a consideration for services rendered, necessarily involved an undue subservience to any body other than that by whom he was elected. He came to that House, he might say, elected by two constituencies, in order, not to assert siiperiutendeutal opinions, hut in order to make available in his place the knowledge of the interests of the colony which he had acquired from his long experience of public affdrs. The hon. member would forgive him if he took exception to his style of treating the action of Superintendents in that House. The hon. member talked about coaxing and wheedling. If Superintendents had had the educational advantages of hon, members who had served where coaxing and wheedling were better known than in European communities, perhaps their success would have been more obvious than it had been in that colony. He did not believe it was the practice of superintendents to coax and wheedle, but he knew well to what the hon. gentleman referred. He (Mr Moorhouse) did once use a very great effort to induce certain hon. members to give their services as members of the Government, but not to procure his own personal ends, nor to obtain any special advantages for the community with which he was identified. Mr UAcnc-FT Wilson, C.B.—Will the hon. member permit me to explain. What I said was that chief magistrates had bad a great deal to do with making and unmaking of Ministries. This has been notoriously the case during the last six years. I am well aware that during the last session the hon. member forWestland had, in consequence of his being the mover of the amendment on the non-confideiee motion, which amendment was carried, been compelled o ask different members of the House to form a Ministry. But, Sir, I never imputed any blame to the member for Westland for the course which he took last session. In fact, in my former remarks I never intended to allude to the lion, member at all. I trust this explanation will prove satisfactory to him. Mr Moouiiodse : Every man who was earnest in the prosecution of his own idea of what was good would make enemies in the same proportion with his earnestness, of those who did not agree with him ; and he believed that the Superintendents of provinces had had a great deal to contend with from that cause. He believed as a rule it would be admitted ou all hands that Superintendents in this colony, from the beginning of constitutional government, had had a great deal to congratulate themselves on. From the first the Superintendents had been active politicians, and he believed that the inauguration of the business of this Legislature was mainly due to them. There was no need to mention them by name. On the Government Benches might be found a genilenra who commenced public life as a Superintendent, and who at the close of his term of office left behind him undying marks of his ability. He was not fully aware of the composition of parties in his province, but he was prepared to assert that the abators of this measure would be supported by the minorities in Provincial Councils. The General Assembly miuht, if it chose, keep Superintendents out of the House j but, on the part of the public of Canterbury, he must protest against any attempt being made to emasculate that province by rendering incapable of service many members who had been elected to fill seats in the Provincial Council. Mr Stafford explained that he objected to the bill because it did not go far enough. He quite concurred with the hon, member that there were members in the House who were under pressure, and he should like the bill shaped in such a way as to prevent any possibility of such pressure in future. Mr Jollie said that during an experience of five sessions he had constantly been a witness of the bias which had influenced many hon. members in the discharge of their duties. It might not be that lion, members, who were also Superintendents or members of Provincial Executives, were aware how their opinions were apt to be biassed in discussing questions relating either to the general policy of the country or to finance; but he was certain that the deliberations of the House had often been unduly and improperly swayed by provincial considerations, and by the presence and influence within it of Superintendents and Provincial Government officers. He had never been a provincial officer or member of a Provincial Council, and had no interest in Provincial Governments beyond the common and natural interest which any one had in the affairs of the district or neighbourhood in which he lived; but it appeared to him that there was a reasonable as well as unreasonable provincialism; and if it was the aim of the Government, as he believed it was, to extricate the country from the difficulties by which it was surrounded, then they would endeavour, without going to extremes, to win over and conciliate the moderate Provincial party which did, and which lie hoped always would, exist in the House. But with regard to the measure before the House, if it was desired to carry out th? reform proposed impartially and honestly —if it was to be made anything more than a Bliani—then it must be made to refer to Provincial Governments as well as to both branches of the General Legislature. What was sauce for the goose was sauce for the gander. They must look at all sides of the question, and if thoy entered on it at all, be prepared to carry it out fully, fairly, and thoroughly ; f,»r if it was desirable to place a cheek anywhere, it was rather on provincialism than on the General Government, for the provincial party betrayed an intense desire to aggrandize everything—to take everything into the hands of four or five largo provinces, anil to make them separate colonies, as it were. If this were not checked soon, the country would have to see its financial, native, and defence policy dictated by the political interests of Provincial Government olllcials and Superinlendeiils, whose encroachments would continue until they reached such limits ,%s would radically interfere with the ciuistitiitioii of the colony and seriously undermine its wcll-b'-ing. Mr I'atkkson thought the object and aim of the bill mint meet with the approval of every member of the Home, for nothing was more important in a deliberative assembly than Hint every member shou'd be in a position to judge of all questions ou their merits uiibias-ed hv ciiimil.-rations of either | o sou or parly, ll h id be.-ti his cudoavodr, during the whole course of his public career, to keep

separate from party feelings which might bias his judgment in regard to any measure. As a member of the House lie had been called on to take a position in the Government which he had not sought, and which he would have been better pleased had he never occupied; but he bad never, when called upon to deal with public questions, in any case given a vote which he could not conscientiously approve of. When he first became a member lie was also a member of the Provincial Government of Otngo, and be had at all times felt a great interest in the welfare and prosperity of that province, and been ready to do what in him lay to advance its interests; but that feeling had never led him to support any measure which be did not feci to be of general public utility. On the hustings, recently, he hud told his constituents that however much he regarded the interests of Otago, he would not support any measure which appeared to him to be detrimental to the general interests of the colony. He had no idea that because a member was connected with a Provincial Government he was necessarily bound to advocate interests opposed to or not for the general benefit of the colony, lie could not deny that such cases bad occurred, but be should be very sorry to think that the members of the House acted by any such general rule. He was not aware of what amendments might be proposed in committee, and the bill certaiidy admitted of amendments before it took the shape in which he should like to see it pass the Mouse, but as such amendments should be made, he trusted the bill would be allowed to go into committee, and he would therefore vote for the second reading, although be could not support it as it stood. Mr Dillon Bkll whs sorry to hear the lion, member, for the City of Dunedin, say he wonld vote for the >econd reading. To him the bill appeared the most transparent sham possible, and no such bill was at all necessary to maintain the independence of the House. The House bad always maintained its independent character, and be could defy any member to say that the House had ever considered any question of public interest in a servile or improper manner; nor did he see any reasonable cause to fear that it would degenerate from the high tone it bad always been able to assume. But if the dignity or independence of the House was in danger it was not by the manufacture of such bills, or by the imposition of sham checks, that it could be rescued from the danger. The men who were called on to take piirt in provincial affairs were mostly the best men in the provinces, and it was not by excluding them from the House that the dignity and position of the House was to be secured. To do so would either deprive the House of the services and information of those lion, members or it wonld prevent many of the best men in the provinces from taking part in the government of those provinces for which they were so well fitted. It had been asserted that there was in the House a spirit of encroachment by the provincialists, but there were also encroachments on the other side. Each side wanted more, and wished to disturb and upset the balance of power. But if, on the one hand, he agreed that it would be imposble to carry on the business of the country satisfactorily if the best men in provincial offices were excluded, it was, on the other, absurd to talk of excluding able and useful men because they happened to hold a General Government appointment. If so much was said about the independence of Parliament—if they were to become so exceedingly virtuous that no one was to be allowed to sit in the Legislature because he was receiving a salary for services rendered —then they must go further. Adopt a principle and follow it through at all hazards. They must rigidly adhere to the principle: but he really could not see that, if a man holding an office was elected to represent a constituency, the fact of his receiving a salary tended to mike him a dangerous man, nor could he see why he should be excluded or his advice be dreaded. He coull not imagine against whom the bill was aimed ; or rather, he could imagine very well. The lion, member who introduced it had a happy instinct which led him to spoil everything he undertook or had anything to do with. If the honourable member undertook to support anything, it was sure to fail; and if he opposed anything, it was sure to be adopted; in fact, the honourable member was endowed with a capacity for making a mess of everything he meddled with, and the present bill was no exception. If it were passed, it would exclude many men who were an ornament to the Legislature, whose services had been of great value in the past, and who were capable of giving valuable advice in the future. It would be a shameful act to reward their services by now excluding them from the Legislature; and if the hon. member had no personal feeling—if he did not desire to turn certain men out—why did he not make his measure a prospective one ? But no, this would not do ; the bill was to apply at once, and penalties were to be at once imposed. He desired most earnestly to protest against the supposition that the House would damage its character, or reduce its independence, by continuing to retain the services and assistance of such men, whether they were in the General Government service, or Superintendents, or Provincial Government officials.

Mr Reynolds, in reply, said there were none of the arguments urged against the measure which convinced him that he ought to withdr-nv it, but rather convinced him that he should press it to a division, even though he should stand alone. The whole of the arguments used by the opponents of the bill went rather to prove the necessity for the bill. The hon. member at the head of the Government said he was prepared to support the bill on one condition—namely, that it should exclude Provincial Government officers from seats in that House, as it excluded General Government employes. |The hon. gentleman evidently did not know him (Mr Reynolds) if he thought for a a single moment that lie would do so. He said th,nt the bill was somewhat different from the resolution. He (Mr Reynolds) held in his; hand a bill which was introduced by the honourable gentleman at the head of the Government in 1865. He would read that bill ify it was the wish of the House. The bill was rjot exactly the same but was the same in substance. The marginal note recited that it provided that certain functionaries should be excluded, viz., parties receiving salaries from thelGeneral Government were to be prohibited f row voting for members of the House of Representatives, and members elected, who were officers of the Government receiving salaries, were to be liable to a penalty of £2OO if they took', their seats. Certain persons holding office's of emolument were disqualified, with certain exceptions. Those exceptions were Ministers of the Crown in New Zealand, officers of Her Majesty's army and navy, officers of Militia, except on the staff, receiving permanent salaries; officers of any Volunteer corps were also excepted. Thq hon. members bill also disqualified con-, tractors. Thai measure contained pretty nearly the same provisions as wew in the hill then before the House. That bill was read ti first lime, a second time, and went into committee. It was not till after the hon. member assumed office that the bill was dropped, because it was thought that the session had been quite long enough, and it was not thought desirable to pjess it then, and thus run the risk of neglecting legislation on other subjects of equal if not of greater imp irtmice. The hon. memoir for Coleridge, and two or three oilier lion, members, had, in IBM, suggested that it should al.-oexclude employes of the Provincial Government, but the strength of the House was against them.' lie (Mr Keynolds) believed that on the present occasion the strength of the House was also against that proposition. He (Mr Reywol Is would aslc wlmt objection there could b:i to officers of the Provincial Government Ukins: seats in that House. It should be recollected that members of that House were elected to represent their constituents and not to secure for themselves olflces of emolument, to he purchased possibly by the sacrifice of the interests of those to whom they were indebted for the seats they held. Unless such a bill as that before the (louse passed lltciv was just the possibility of the House bewKiiinir so comfit that there would be no conlLleuee placed in it by the constituencies. He (Mr Reynolds) would not refer to what

hadp aßa ed,buttowhat might hafc^. Mr Cracroft Wilson, C.B-Tlib i gentleman has asked me a question ana tl°nJ answer it. I objected to provincial O i! U coming into this House and voting i 5? P*y their own salaries. They VotTf y . L to did not ge the provincial money the b u ,£ y coula not be carried on. ess ■ Mr Hbtnouw could' not understand snrt, arguments as those which bad beenvliS by the hon.n.en.her for Coleridge a u i CCcI He (Mr Reynolds) considered £i guilty of very great presumption in " e to exclude provincial employed ,I,,'y S$ He would ask what right this H O «,V|S?" arrogate to itself the right to nictate to tt» electors who they should return as Xrepresentatives to this House, || un „,,,, ."<* the General Government ? " They s i„, ,'j • an entirely different position, b m U nZ « pay of: the General Government VS be liable to be coerced to vote wit]. Government, who e servants they were r? will be in the remembrance of «f )m .."hnn members that the hon. gentleui.ui now \ t ,1 head of the Government, while H , , Opposition Benches in the session f 1865 stated, in connection with th discussion on his own Diso,„alifi, lt J Bill, and in reference to Mr I Jo , ',? who then held a scat in the H w J also the paid office of Coninii-siontr of (W Lands, "The Imn. member for m? Domett) may vote as be likes, but the (•„'„ missioner of Crown Lands should vote with the Government if I were a menilj.'-r of it» He thought that such remarks as th„ S( . ~'L to convince the House of the n- ft —itv f passing the bill under consideration '" l™ ben were returned to this House to'reimLnt their constituents and to legislate f', r (i colony, and not to secure to themselves off P „ of emolument. If any one accepted ,„,i " office, let him be sent back to ills' '!• tuents. '""* Mr Dittos Bell: Why did you m , ]n that in the bill ? J not ,Jo An Hon. .Member •. That is miit e a „;«,.. ent question. Mr KEYNOLDB: Seeing that lion. members had the example of the lion, gentleman at the hc«l of the Ministry before th™ as having proposed such a remedy , m I former occasion, why should not the House take action and remedy the evil ? As to the observations of the honourable gentleman at the head of the Government with rt<Mrd to section No. 9, that it repealed the oth°r sections, he did not think that view could be maintained. A member appointed under this clause could only hold his appointment until thirty days after the next mtetin» of the Assembly, and if not ratifi d witlrn°the time it would cease. The object of the clause was not to tie up the hands of the Ministry against procuring the best men for the public service in special cases, and be felt assured that no Ministry, knowing the intentions of the clause, would make a practice of appointing members of the Legislature to offices of emolument, knowing that they would have to justify such appointments when the Assembly next met. This bill if passed, would have the effect of preserving the political purity of the House. The lion. member for Bruce said he did not anticipate that the ''iscussion would have taken the turn it had done. From what he had heard out of the House he was quite aware that it would take that turn, but this knowledge was not to deter him from fulfilling what be considered to be his duty by introducing the bill. He was not astonished that the hon. member for Bruce should oppose the second reading unless the Ministerial amendments were agreed to. He could only say that it was in keeping witii that hon. member's previous political career. That hon. member had accused him of removing some ten years ago, from the Provincial Council of Otago, the Chief Commissioner of the Waste Lands Board, then a paid officerof the Provincial Government. He did not hesitate to say that be had taken a very active part in doing so, and by the introduction of the bill now before the House be was proving to the hon. members for Bruce and I,'ataura that he had maintained his political consistency. He must say that he thought it too bad of his hon. friend, the member for Mataura, to insinuate that on the introduction of this bill he had been actuated by a desire simply to get a certain person, who held oice under the Government out of the Legislature,

Mr Dillon Bell-I must take the opportunity of explaining. I did say that he might have wished to get rid of" persons;" but I never did insinuate that he wished to get rid of any particular person. I think the honourable gentleman is quite incapable of doing so. He is about one of the best naturedmen I know. Mr Reyxoids-H was really a very difficult thing to understand the hon. member. The first time he wa3 introduced to the hon. member, he was told " There goes the gentleman who first speaks on one side, then on the other, and votes in the middle." (Laughter.) He must say that since then he had found his honourable friend very consistent in this respect. He had only to remark, in conclusion, that he hoped the House would agree to the second reading of the bill, which might be added to or amended in committee. He felt assured that a majority of the House were in favour of the bill, and he trusted that they would not be debarred from doing their duty from any fear that the threats thrown out by hon. members may be realised in committee. As he had already stated, he would consider it his duty to press the question to a division, even if he stood alone. Question put, "That the bill be now read a second time. A division was called, which resulted as follows : For the second reading 20 Against the second reading ... 26 Majority against 6 Ayes.—Messrs Armstrong, Baigent, Ball, Campbell, Clark, Farmer, Hall, Colonel Haultain, Messrs Jollie, Main, Mervyn, J. O'Neill, Parker, Paterson, I'otts, Travers, Wells, C. Wilson, Tellers.-Messrs Reynolds and Stafford. Noes.—Messrs A. S. Atkinson, H. A. Atkinson, Brandon, Bunny, Cargill, Vox, Dignan, jFwtherston, Hunkinson, Harrison, Haughton, tLudlam, G. Macfarlan, T. Macfarlane, M'Neill, Moorhouse, Ormond, Reeves, Rod,'J, C Richmond, Stevens,Mudholme, Watt, Wood. Tellers-Messrs Dillon Bell arid Mr Barm. Pair.-For, Mr G. Graham ; Against, Mr Fitzherbert. Mr Reynolds asked if he could give notice that the bill be read a second time on Tuesday next ? The Spbaker said that it was quite competent for the hon. member to do so. The question that had just been negatived was that the bill be " now " rend a second time.

; PfIr|f6WAPHY.-Mr Mundy has just completed a' seriesof stereoscopic views of the inauguration'of the Godley statue. '1 he views , are'four iri'nttmber, and form an interesting of tite proceedings on that occasion. I They , vrere\ taken instantaneously, and although necessarjly on a small scde to suit the stereosoprio, the minutest details are rendered with jki utmost accuracy. The features of those present are easily recognised, and the pioture*, beiWtes being so faithful, are really valuable asjsp ecimens of photography. Kvery portion bf the ceremony is represented, from the time tyieri the statue was envelop d in its covering ta that ot the dispersal of the crowd. ' : I TBMPtBTON.I-On August 6, the Templeton' contingent of No. 0 Company C.K.V-i presented Serjeant-Major Morton with an address and testimonial expressive of tlicir esters and goocf wishes; He has been very zealpus -in his ißrideavours to get the contingent well Up in'dlrill, and has worked heartily for it ever idnceWts enrolment. The tl * raonial consisted! of a medal, with O.H.»> undat a crown, t)ii one'side, the whole of whw.ii was in raiseil work of frosted silver, anijlon the other side a suitable inscription. TIO medal was ve*y artistically got up»)' AW-'IW sen, of Christohuich. __

(jpvemraeiit"is to ; be let ,' o 'ff! aiid to receive ? a few hundred polios. : •: Otflgo, debtor to the eiteut $, ■ aslted; : to. pay only; £25,000, which sum; Auckland; is to ; -eceiye : iu' addition", to being .forgiven its o!wn!Mt pf;£17,000.; ;What with; .' cancelhn£,; in <>W' : place and : re-, .giyiiig, in' another,, Auckland,': will gain about ■•■^Q ) liorbei't's plan.;; Southland's Mt under the, Surplus;•'■ ileveniie .;■' £13;G0O. and this.jß.:, cpnimiited liy:ii, payment of' £5000.. CTliis'; latter'!!sum: ■fijl jro to Wellington, its ■ pvv'n 'dobt pf 1100 "bfing.■' wiped'; ; out .'as- -well, Alt'PS e *'• er,-. ;■ i t-.- -a jii pears :-e't lii n't; :;fak i rig-;. into consideration tlie. sums'cancelled uiider the .Loan .Allocation- Aetv'and! {lie sums written oft", ''by tlie proposed. adinstiiieii t of debts under the 'Surplus Revenues Act, the, North Island-, province? receive i! ; pecuniary advantage. emiil l : lo fjU>,9(ss.^; The; Southern; woviucc?, by the adjustuient of : 4ebtsi under the. Surplus-'llevenues- Aefj .will beuetit apparently to the exteut; of. iGlll,riOO, in ■lbe?'f()ll()iwihg;;jjroporv tj o ns:-Otiigo, £-15,000 ;lCaiiterl)ui"y; £3(1000 ; £12,000■;; yefciin, £10,500 .;,;■' and Southland; £B,OOO. The traiisacfioui;;as .a"■ wholes ■ pur he " Jiretty; ";;it; ;iiiayV even happen that tho; Treasurer's anticipation of its effect: will be realised i: and that'•"' every party to it '■ comes;bufc satisfied-," but jtseeini-tliatthislnrgest' : share of the plunis.^'fiiida. its-way, as;! heretofore, to the;., .nprth,!;pf; v Cpbk . Strait ■"'-'■ ■■ -,"^'

The estimated oxpenditure oil' accoiint of Militia 0 and YblunteeVs is put down at £2B,ooo, ; ; : aud/this, r is charged fbe ,proyiuees■ iii:,■certain prppbrtipns'.. ;,33ut^iu ; additiqn.tb : fliis, the Treflsurer; ■proposes- tespeuil; £IOO,OOO on: an armed •Tfhich sumAnll liaveto.be raised: bja: new loan. iA^s.' th'e v arliied cbustab ulai:j- : . is solely for, the benefit'.,of. the',,■North, Island: provinces,... aud /asunder' {the; Treasu re.f's finaiicial .scbeine : ; '.tliese/ ; .ar.o to receive'very:' Considerable;.'advaiiVtajies, it would appear .only an act .of: simple justice to charge them, with,tiro cost of this, new defence.- force. There; is, however, lio'hint to this effect." '■. Mr Pit-z'hefber-t- lead^.us'to ; iiifer tliat the colony, as awhole; : .\vill Jvave to ;; .pay annually a sunt not Jess -tbn>' .£134,000. for the maintenance: qf '{peace iii- the. jN'or-th- Islanjl'/.and-to prpyide. also, for what he calls /■ contingent,detJEin.ce,' 1 a further sum,' for tlmyear; '0f:£4:5,000,r or whatever it.may. ani{o{unt,tp{ : in. case; of a native/outbreak ,'-. :''{;■■ . : ;: F-{ '{'■' ■

One pprtipn,pf{the financial, scheuie, : which is. lie the; most objectionable, ■.■■;is/.the,''.manner-,'{in : ,- wHich ; the ;:;;Treasurer:.{v;-propOses{.;to-' borrow;£26o,ooo '. under.-; Million .LbW;Act of 1863. {Although; debentures to the full, amount author.-; isedby'thp-'Act have been issued,:; the;' disco.unt.on their negotiation amounted to £260000, the suui : it is: now. pro-' posed to : 'r'aise under the, authority of the.-Act.■"■ '.The argument; in defence of this proposal is at least, ingenious.;. Mr. Pitzherbei-t says—and "we believe he is indebted- ; to Dr Featherston for the sugge's'tipri—that, the' Three Million Loan Act conferred the legal authority neee,??ary,to,r.aise,{63,ooo,ooo sterling; the sum raked falls short of that hy ;;£260,600; {therefore we pro-; pose tb;bbrrpw that.sum under.tlie/old-': Act, asking; only,{for a further;:Eban Appropriation Act.- At the date of our last advices from Wellington; this proposal had met with strenuous Pppositibri; even from members, who maybe' regarded as in some sense supporters of the Ministry. > : {{:;' i :--{ •■■•,{■' The general, as opposed {to. the special business transacted in the Assembly; has been of a character which the,best friends of the colony and of the provinces must. heartily approve. A.feeling is gradually. gaining ground that itwould : he wise to limit the powers, of .the 'provinces to' their legitimate /.functions {—{colonizatioh; and the conduct, pf{ public., wbrks.-.of-utility—and to much ■ as possible. Provincial legislation. A time must come, if it has not already arrived,' when from the number arid diversity of provincial laws,; confusion;,: will:-, arise, perhaps obstruction to real: progress;;and the Assembly haß {wisely; commenced a mation, the ■ benefits of{ : which;{are: obvious. The , Bills' brought,{in;{- with this object relate principally to the criminal codb,- to civil {{contracts, and municipal corporations,,.;.{We are thought to have, reached'that state of civilization when a Divorce Act, if not absolutely riec,esßary,;may at least be introduced with safety •{andthe doubts which have {from time, to time arisen regarding the of; City Couiicils, are;about to be removed by a Municipal Corporatibneißill{ applicable to the whole colony.;{.We,;mentioned in our last summary that,the tendent of Auckland' had appointed a native chief as a member oi his Execu*I ve ;' 4- advance of{.this; though theidea is by no means a new °ne,has beeri:taken by the SuperinJendent of Hawke's '< Bay, who has nought a/bill; into ,the Assembly for granting a. certain number of representatives in the Colonial Legislature to jhe native{;race. ,The bill has been javourably received, and,it is pr.)bable that the Hamard of.{next,session will record the; speeches of. native members. A movement for the establishment of JWZealand Scholarships, originating directly in:a, petition from,the Rector of the High{ School,. Dunedin, though suggested;,:some time: ago by the.lnJpector{of Schools for that {province,' has receivedlheattention of .the Legis--«tive Gpuncil.;! A.: Select;: Committee uas been appointed to inquire iuto : 'and; report upon {the subject, and : also bri ; |he ; advißability{pr ;otherwise of { lishing. a-New ; Zealand University"; A{ bill to amend/the law. of, bankruptcy Haa . .']been{ brought -in. The bill i« Mainly based Pn, the Scotch.system, jnd embodies, thechief { tlo f of:the English iCommission. Among the papers laid before both orancheß:of{the : Le{gislature,:bycom: mand of the Governor,.are,.several Possessmgimbrethanordinaryinterest; '^e.first :place,'{.therolsaseries of Je«es;from the Secretary of State 5 r %-^?¥.? B ' to :his{{Excellency; iiiefe have received: a largeambunt. of

attention from the.public journals, and have been universally condemned as unjust towards, the colony, uufair ; towards the Governor, and altogether unwarranted, : under,the circumstances. ' ..In short, the feeling generally entertained is, that Sir George Grey, and ■: through him the colony has been deli- . berately and for no just, cause insulted. ;It! would soeem as if the Hoine,authb-! ritiea, having placed; the Govornor-iiv ;iin impracticable. position, are unreasonable enough to be-angry because lip : has not. achieved the "impossible,! 'Tlie: .slauder^pf : ; Colonel./ Venire, equalled only ,hy;tiio? fatuous ■reiidinosscwitli; . which they were;received in/Downing.Street, have, beeiv rehdorotVidpublyin-;. ;.Biilting;'by or refute them; -After all the:! sacrifices; which ;the colony has lnadojafteKalli tlie: liabilities- Avliich! i ave ,beeii>iiicurred i :nhd; the;burdeußhvliicli grudgingly borne;' f6r;:audloir(iiccouut;: of; a war that;arose;.;out;;»oi;lmperial ''interference—no^coloiml-mismanage-, ; ;<3yeu;; biUerly;, tlie: Vgrosa tiee of the belief impliedi'iutho denikud: ninde.pittliei;Governor; to;/answer !for; atrocities; alleged: to;bave : l)een coin-; niitted under..tlie : sanction,,aud.'at. tlie. iiistigation/bf : advisers! |:The :claim:° made: ! ;l)y:':the:;lmperial Government upon!the forVup+: fwards of;£l,000^bVon v account;pf?the; .uatiyevwar; ,; the. usurious ;,care: with ■■ which/the; yaridus ; 4tems;pMie \ aceouht : have been collected.from; a period exteuding byei'; iifearly- twenty; years;; aiid the; scant./.consideration .'for; justice' .shewn/in'!the:appointment!;!pf;au:'lmv periiil ; to; : adjlist ;tha; aiid'.Golouihl. :.Go.y.erumeuts, ,'iii circumstances ! with the Weare calumnies,..have : done. !nuch.;.';t6. wealven. the generous and loyalty of the colony to: the Jlpthei'Couutrj. ~..:.,

%-Mr- ; Gbiiim]B3bher{'.Generhr{;iStaiil6y .■Jones, who was appointed,by the Imperial authorities to discus's.: and adjust--in {cphjunctiouvwith' 'a '"Commissiprie'r ; jiommatedby : the;Goyeraor;/ti]ealiewed debt of the;. colony tb{the{Home{Gb.yernment,.deserves some iibtiee at pur hand?. -.- Mr. Jpuesis;.thaiGommis'sary. General-of the.lmperial;forces wh.o,{iii liis{ capacity of Chief :6f.. the ,'Oom*missariat Staff thought :fit;'in■his;official:repbrtsVtb the; librdsV of; ■Her Majesty's ;Treasuryi to:.criticise{.the, professional: cbtlduc.t of Sir. PuiicanGamerpriand; other-Generals, who expressed himself .very, freely,- in the samp'pfllejal dbc'u-. inents,; on; the Colonial; Ministry; the colonists,.'and even 'the,'.Gbvernpr. him-, .disregard.fpr facts in what lie -thought {necessary tb{ say. Mr Jones is" the ; same ..Commissary.. General who,. while. he; was -slandering the colonists, the Governor,, and the Ministry did.not; exercise suchvigilance over .his' owri. subordinates-aVto prevent .certificates fo'r.-rations"'being' .given, several 'times,-, over by various Deputy-Assistant Com-missary-Generals..tp,{tlie{pecun! 'ry'de-/ triment of the■ colony,.:■ and: t a.o - disgrace of the "Imperial-service';'. Yet' Mr Jones is selected.'by.the.lmperialGovernment to inquire .'iiito;accounts made up under his own supervision •; aud which, for tiisvown reputation,. it; was'necessary.:he shpuld -prove. to lie correct. {{Mr Jpties is in : fact'made the judge of his own actionsj- under circum-: stances:when .the.;correctness. of these actions.is'at least disputed, {and this; Is{doneby v {the; Iniperiah government. -"What:- is; the' result? An; inquiry which;was .intended to ; l)e {finals and which mighteasilyhave.. been 'made'.so, is arrested at thejery: points whereat: becomes, of the greatest {importance/by the sudden departure of Mr 1 , Johesior: England; whose' only reason for leaving; so abruptly, as elegantly expressed by; himself,, is, {"I am inclined;to think ■■ I; am more likely, to be called .to {"question for the : delay:rather-than ";my; ■departoe;" : ; But : Mr{: Jones': 'while' the inquiry : was going {on,{',did not; cease , : to display, his. {hostility towards the colony.* He wrote .to.the Secretary of "Her Majesty's Treasury,; : complaining that obstacles were thrown in his way, and that ; he .{was unnecessarily detained. He complained, and not without reason : when we bear in ruind;{ the little {irregularities;, of {his subordinates -already; alluded to, that Majors Eichardson;; v" insisted" upon " commencing with; the mere arithme- " tical audit of the numerous ...vouchers " supporting his accounts ;";-and he charged/Major Eichardsonfwifch appointing ,!f an accountant from the " town; who, of course, is utterly utn r " acquaintecTwith the whole nature {of "the claims.":; He {did more.. He evaded a request.for.the production of .his vouchers, while he insisted that the originals of {those, relied{ on by the .colony,: for {{establishing its claims should his accounts to England,.: He stated on April 4<, in an official memorandum to Major Richardson, that the vouchers supporting the Imperial claims against the colony would be sent to Auckland, there to remain always for the purpose, of reference; and a few months later,'in another memorandum, declared;," I am " not aware of ever having stated that " the Touchers would remain in Auck- " land after the whole of the Imperial "troops leave the colony." .{But this : declaration was made by Mr Jones after Major Richardson had .written to him thus: ." It appearing from certain documents "which have been submitted to me " that certificates in favour of contrac- " tors, for drawback of duty on gro;".ceries{ {{supplied' to the Imperial "trpops.have been issued by the Com- " rnissariat several times over on ac- " counhof. the same. rations, and it ;( ';appearidgj.;prbbable;{that there 1 may " be{pther{{cases{of,.a ; ; similar.kind, I /'would.{feel:{{obiiged{ if,. : you would ,( favour me with a return of the actual " number ofy;rations';issued by the "paribus The{ inquiry was evidently becoming: too searching,: aiid threatened an : :exposure,i{ Finally, Mr; Jones; without aiiyprevioua official intimation; {of his', ■intention;- left{the colony,;:{ltis;on]yr]ght{to{ad he did.anhoui' or two before bis departure by the;Panama;mail{flteainer, leaveanote -with the Qbvernbr; jiisfc.tb

say that. he,! was:, going;-^"■'.'This via Commissary General .Stanley : .Tones, Imperial Commissioner,; ■ : ; f: :.:.:;'' The recall ;;pf;Sir;George:;Grey^--: sudden,?,;nnexpe'cte'd )^ : !and; ; ns!-■. yet unjustified—has; caused ;vory;gerieraf aurprise, : and;;hot:Va : litfclo! :indignation;.;,:;in;;tlie ;■absence;- of; any! ex|)lanation.j the ; !!rocall! is yory; natiir rallycprinected: with; the;;despatcheswhich.. passed between Lord.;. Car;niu|on and- h'i'a Excellency• bii. 'tlie subject. bf Golonel; Wearo'a,slanders, colony. The colonists, ..knowing how utterly unfounded those ! slanders wore, and; bearing':in: mind : thehnianlyi: d i'gni lied, and j usti fiably !i n;dignant jefjitatjon .by the Governor, /sympathise-deeply with his Excellency in;what!they! caimpt/tint regard as 'aii act of .injustice; /Sir -George ...Grey, although he;may: have' beenVtOr.some extent, ill; \past; lias (gainedth&sincereesteenVof thecplonistsjby thev/spirji^itlvwliicb. Jie,! has .rebutted., .tlie charges,::brpught,again's.t : ; tlioih;; -m welt.as', by thei heiir'fcy;sym : r ; pathy lip; lias '/always 'enucefiii wlmt;ever;;was promote the true ,interests of : tlie ■colony.,, ! His recall,' at a time.: when hisunWearied! labours ..promise the most gratifying results, .andjusfc as the colonists begin :to:.apprecinte fully the services,hejiaa 'rendei-ed, will be generally regarded 1 as.a great:public loss.

: There ;: js. peace, throughout ; the North if we except an occasional raid by small bauds ofHau-bau .toatics: Even these are less frequent; andi|is.apparent that more moderate :cppselS:prevail : ,among;the disaffected tribes.;:,; !W!e;allnhdedj in our last.: s.iini.:raary;;to:tlie:.;prob;abilily of a; payable: .province. liateuews lessen. tlie probability, . ;lii, the valley . of'. the Thames,, and;, not; very , far.. from '■ Auckland,; encouraging' : prospects : have;heeu;fbUiid;:in/a! ; cqnßiderable' iirea ofcouiitry, ..There are;/from fifty.-to ;one hundred miners, on. tho ground, 'and.. the : . diggers''- ! pn- -'the'-'-West :Gpast; -of : .';the v ' Middle; Island are evincing .considerable interest in . the results of further/prospecting.. The ■ natives.'■■shew, /great hostility to the pro'spectorsi aiid' positively refuse ;in many. instances .'to alkiW. them iin ..tlie; country.. Hut, ■ the. existence .of a payable... and,, moderately extensive gpidfield; once established beyond <lis:pute,.native opposition would not deter the miners, from the, search,, or, hinder them-in,their labours;

;The public works of the province arc still confined to thosewhich were under contract prior to tho time at.which it -was found absolutely necessary to arrest the further prosecution, of public undertakings. From., the . date of first,{ br.ea.ldug ■ through up . till ..recently; .the ..tunnel..".works .have ■been, greatly by a. large {flow-{of■■■water;; but,- for the past fortnight, this obstruction has, been' got rid{,, ofi .and. great progress has been ;madb. 7 . There is //everyreason to. sup- 1 ,ppse{ thajt:m.about; sixAveelra the whole will be-completed' and .in working. .order, : including the necessary station iccpm'mpdation. {at .'.LytteltonV ■■'■".'' The..Great Southern. Eailivay,{ whicliwas. nearly, .ready for. opening;, up{ {toYand; across {the Selwyn,, abqufcttie beginning' :o{f{last : material ;damage.at the river{jiistnamedY;. The heavy floods 1 which were, general: 'throughput {'the' 'province ;during.the{ early part, of August were peculiarly to 4he -railway; works atthe Selwyn bridge, and it was 1 very',:great {difficulty thaVtlie bridge .itself, was saved. As, it is, ,'a large,portion of .the. embankment ieading; .uptp thebridge.ou the north bank :pf the/river : has{been.Parried away; arid 'the .{river;, preferririg,{jts old bed, has: '. declinedto accpmmpdatb.the engineer {-Mr: going.. under; his : the,,.railway acros3{the Belwyn being available ; for:. traffic{tiil:a. pile,.yiaduct' ;lias beeri/constriictedto make;goodthe.. breach: ;;ln the embankinent,: through; ;which;;the river is nbw{tlpwingi; Messrs Holmes ;and. ; {Cb i) { v who:;had:conipleted J {tlieir ; cPntr{act:b{eforethe.{ ; hayeenteredjntoan: witlv;.-,tlie{ Gpyerniheut for the; ; im--mediate {construction ;pf : the yiaduct: referred{{to. {above; and: they : Pspbct,tp ■ .have;it;firiished ; in : abpjit{iix, ; The harbour {works go"- on"' slpwly and on a moderate,scale. : A cry' {East pah-' terbury has,,ariseri{pa the West Coast gbldfields, but it{{is.{at Jeastidbubtful; whether the agitation is {nbttheworlt: :°| n ''.^ 'disappointed poliUciahs. : {{ljeft {to ...themselves {{the '■■■ miner^iare: |o remain part .of-" a{prpyiiice which, if' it has not 'acted; altogether; wisely^iu ;respectHo;;its{;goldfields;{has{:a¥least spent;a; hargV::;suip{:bf , money ■in''.'.an'. ; endeavour,.;tp;supply: Me wants {and meet the wishes ,of a migratory. -and fluctuating population. {{{The lenders of the {Westlaud {eeparaiioii ''.. movement are not agreed ampng'themselvesj'The more, noisy ? / and; vehement,r; section advocate the ;erectiou{-bf ; : Westland from the {.Greyriver; on ; tlie; north to, the Otago boundary bii;the!south, ; and eastward, all the. way : tp {the-dividing range, into a separate'jprovince, with' all the appendages {of existing Prbviri. 5 cial institutions.;;.! thint that it ;would ha- preferable;to■■place ; the district under, the.direcfc control of the General Government.- T The inhabitants of the Canterburypprtioui'of what is called{;the{Greymouth{dißtrict appear unanimous inlheiradvocacy of annexation to ;the Nelson - province;A petition to the. General Assembly;' drawn up bythe;.advbcates;of{'a,; pro' vince {of. Westland,; ;hag: : :notvreceived : many signatures; the supposed: population of the goldfields'beirig considered/ The rejection by{the General Assembly. of -, the : Bill:. lias: given, rise to amdvementin the {Tiuiarui district for; what; in{ ;a the' Legislature;; ■ {is;{, ; ; : styled{{{ : local-self government: an,harmbny;with;existing' 'institutions;.;'; ■■>:■■/■ '^

;: .There are signs of a ; j-evival iri trivdoj and ~wlio ■ look; .hopefully, toe the future prosperity to which -we/have bug .heeif strangers..;; The encouraging; 'accounts received in a, neighbouring ;pr6vince; with respecti: to ithe combined with theVheces-:

sity of finding somewhere a market for the furmorsV jiroduco, havo secured tho formation of an Agricultural Produce Export Comi)any. The main object of .the.company is, first, to find the bout export: inarket for the surplus produce /of the province; and, second, tho best and : cheapest/moans of conveying that produce thence. The company is well supported,,;and, if judiciously conducted,:ought:to do somo good. It is .worthy;o?note/tliat the New Zealand /flaxisnbwiriahufacfciired into ropo of various/sizes .and of excellent quality, in this province. ■, Competent judges de-clare-the nativo articlo superior to the .'imported sort's ;'of Manilla; and, as it can .be supplied at a lower price, .Mahilia'rppe .is. being gradually driven /but/vof;tho! market. A second and mprfrexteusivo 5 establishment for the manufacture/pf the rope is about to be started,!and! the progress of this !iiew ioal,: industry is watched with !great!!iutereßtv:

■its-being disturbed.- The Government simply judge it to be for" tlie best interests of'tlie colony not to nmintsin a peace establishment . of defence as one of the permanent institu-. lions of the■•■country.. Whilst, howevciy. it must be admitted that this is n very, large and important step to take, ami whilst it is not to be imagined that the Government is prepared to make any prcpostoi oua prop isnl which shall aim at defining and limiting as between the different parts of the colony ilmt .which.;by its' be indefiiiite-^r as preposterous, indeed, as. it would be for' a 'canny bachelor to prescribe beforehand the limits of milliiu-rs' bills; the cui/rait will lie gaily bestowed aiid .graciously accepted; in token of acquiescence, but when the gift- ■has li.en 'used up, the full weight of marital responsibility recurs, and it is discovered when J - too late" that tlie fascination of the moment was the only substantial result, obtained by the absurd bargain. I say that, aitiipugli the : Government is not prepared to hold out illusory promises of limitation, it is a satisfaction to be able to assure the Opmniittee that the Defence expenditure lias now become a decreasing series, and need not, therefore, be regarded-with tlie same appre-. hensioti as formerly. This assurance is borne out by the following statement of expenditure for colonial Defence (including advances made during the years ISGi-7, but excluding advances accounted for) for tlie financial years from 1858-9 to tStiG-7, both inclusive

That, is to sayj Native expenditure for last year was.pniy one-third:of that which it Was the preceding year. This reduction, I admit, :may be attributed in some slight degree to. the fact that certain services formerly charged under the class ''Native" were:transferred toother classes; At the same time, an attempt of the only kind which Was practicable;-has ibeen -made/in the present estimates to introiduce'an element of/limitation into the; Defence, estimates/. It consists in charging .'l6cal!y : , : a ceftainv.pdrtioh of the arid ..Volunteer./services;" in the manner wliich .willbebtst explained by a; refer.erice.tp tlie Estimates themselyes. The result to ivhieh : I have referred is also .partly. dii'ef to the care: fiil manner./i n: which departmental estir mates;, haye been prepared, ;for otherwise an estimated;expeiidifureNcpuld/'npt liayebeen submitted.shew|ng;6hiy.sQ..slight : ;aii;.irierease< over. ii«t year '.as; appears. in : the; following figure3;.yiz:-r- / JEstimate.d;,4ppropriatioris,.|B66-7. . ; £738,3/68. : /o//0 .'. .Estimated Appropriations, 1867-8. " ; :£.744;17^37/ : 6:;""

NoW| ; with a prppo/sel expenditure hi only ,£744,1.78/?8 „6dj and/ah estimated revenue of ■ 5ay.,£1,034,060, : :it would'at first sight appear that there was' no ground for; the/assumption yhich I. just 'now- rriade, namely, that there! . was very, little margin; 'and -it ...would ■*seem ; ■t.liat..it..could nptbe.riecessary, to. relieve the ordinary estimates of/the charges.for. certain.; services and make; provision for them, else-, where; and so indeed.there; would be'ample; /.margin,;biit' for the necessity of making provk ./siori' for ■the Provirices-a necessity; however, . which; rhaTe/already ■recognize?; -Here-then/is 'our/greatdifficulty■ ~the.6efe ?ioir ; of ;Zalaliu;firianciers-- , and /:if ..the. /present Govern men t/succeed; in "lacking such'a/settleraent-of.thi 'question as;may be/accepted/'by ZpriideriUnd; 'reasonable they/''believe' 'tlieyVwili': jiaye' conferred; a ; lasting 'benefitVort- the; • country, ■by; rempyiug.' a grea'rtause/p'f; /delay, uncertainty, aiicV irritation.. But ,this. question cannot be dealt wiili'' satisfactorily merely as one of measure, it.is .one of/manner a|Bp,:and the one is oniy.second :in /J m P? r t!ince to the. other; ;if, that: is to say, .any.'.chiracter of stability is to be stampedon :' O bV.PwP O M : .? r ' Theresults/pf the past financial relations of the cblbhyind ;tbe.provinces, can alone?afford data; on;which fe;bise ; safeproposaVs.fpr the future,' Now, I .ani not going ;tp/trayel over/the ;I.tpok;in;l.B6s ( .wii'en'l:.endeavp"uredl'6.expose ■the/defects of the system' .of distribution of surplus revenue, .as.settled.by the 'i ; Surplus Itevenue Act, 1858;" The arguments I then .used, to shew that the effect of the system was to keep.the public accounts in a chronic ; state of arrears; and cause sums to be distrn buted undpr the delusive character of surplus sums when in fact no available surplus ■existed,, have; ; not been controverted, and are,. I believe, ; incoptrpvertfble. But it in.: dispensable, before/proceeding to. propose any new irrangemeiit; to :take a retrospect of- . the past.: With this object I have had a return (No. IV.) compiled, consisting ;of four tab ,es,.exhibiting, the; annual authorised expendtture ior colonial and..provincial services: respectively- 3 also, the .annual; amounts distributable to the provinces compared' with thqsedistribute'd.' | 'do.not "vouch"for- the entire, accuracy of this return; bbt'the'errors if errors there; are, are. prop irtioniil;; and; will': ; not:invalidate;the/;co;iiciusiiiisl seek todeduce' iroin.it. The return extends from'lßsß' Ythe.'year.in which the Surplus Ueveriiie /Act was" introduced) to the end of last financial year. I propose to..(!raiv. the attention of/tlie committee,to some of the/.pnints of interest in this/return;, wliich exhibits very clearly the ; past relationship: pf colonial aid ; prpyincial expenditure;; It. appears' 1 theri; that -during the period referred to;, the expenditure, as/ borne on the civil list, which comprises; the; salaries/of all the high officers of. state' in the colony,, has/only grown- from,.;il9,opt) to; £27;soo—an increase of less, than one/half.; Ibelieirel may safely. say 'that/; there ■ is/.no' colony wherethere hasbe.m such a/system of economy (nut, to-say parsimony) as in ■■■■the"-' colony ofNew.Zealand, so far as the/prbviaionfor its Executive.is concerned.. come to a clnrge which has grbwn'in nine years w fcrmanent Charges/' which principally: Mof merest arid sinking; furids ;;ind: ; flfteen : ;timeV> rg £ *ai : of ; ife; and it is all the uglier, liecause it is' ■a c largexif:an. unprodhctive. character/;, it- fs ■■ ! ,in fact; thecandign punishment of waria;war' :however,;;it musVb & observed;whichwa^not:' sought for by theGerieral Government but into which nvwas hustled, and its charges flumj at he colony.ip. doubt, with a.wi<h for E odi luck,:like.tlieOld;slioeat the weddihg w P now come to ilia secon I table, which shews expenditure provincially charged. It consists of recognized local chaws; An exumiiiation of Ihe growth pf this class oE .expenditure,will.shew that -whereas the Auckland, local;charges liavebeen the most economical,, on the other.liand those of.Otaio; iiave bferi ■the'mbit'extravagaiit.. , reasonable' to conclude that; tlie//ultiiiiate settlement ~pf. /accounts will 'siiew/a/cprr'espomlirig diffe'r/ence in results. /':.We.■iie'x't; : gl'ari'ce .it'/tlie third and fourth tables, and:-reinark: that-' up;-to 1864-65 the provinces were 'short..paid;':and that during the last two years, tiiey have been greatly over-paid. This fact, .is iiptcwortby on two accounts. Ist.. Because it is/ coincident with the incretse of tnxition.;'l. refer to an estimate (No. V) according to which;! calculate that the additional revenue!

eceived during, the last two and a : half years; a consoquence of the-incrense of the tariffiti 864, and thoiniposition of the Stamp Duties n 1866, has amounted to .£580,000, and ac. ording to the return before™ £626,000 has leen distributed.to.the provinces during 1 tlie »Bt two j ears;;; Now if there lmd-been no uch increase of';the taxation, distriluiioncouldiiot have been effected;'.' I doubt lierefore,itlie wisdoin: of those, wlio,, within lie: rece'ases; of : tlieir respective.:provinces, leclaim against, the General .Government, as he.devourerbf the proceeds of ■the taxation d: the country. '2nd. Because.the principal iver-payment' (which was .that;, of the .last ;ear) was made by a Government which has leeriattackedpnaccouiit of. its allegedatiliirovmcial ,;tendeiicies ; ;;a Government; whicli t nowappears, however, has.without '.nuthifc ily:6f\lw ) ;nclualiy : qverpaid-- : i the"p^viiiciis ) he proportioriof:3-Btlis of .! the !grbss.customs evenueVhaying;: been ;paid ; : :oyer : : to 'thkprp; dncra...for i thirteen: instead :.oronly'twelve, rionths within;tlie,' -pastyear;^ayea/rwhich nay henceforth be recorded iii the almanac tf tlie 'colony/ as \- ;'|The Prpyihciftl Leap; fear." .The -committee may sanction, this irbceedingbrjt not:;vbut ciertaihiy this rouldbea droll conclusiontoarrive; at, viz., hat a Gbverniiient, : Khiclr : exceeds'.tho iid the provinces iii. their.embarrassment',is. it tlie:same u'me.'seekihg their destruction. .1 tiii.reiiiihdcd.pf a'domestic-.complairit':pf iill; isiige pneev brought■ before a: -police court, riiii'li; .after i 6 this, "Well} ; then, your honour,-he gave nesuch-ailook t" : ;lneed:;hardly-inform:the !pmniittee.that:;t.lie. court; dismissed the'ease. iiic'es buglit'tojbe regarded, astiiweductio ad 'Mirdum -pf the -present surplus revenue ystein, Another striking: result fh'erehi-£ 1,597,842 *'was /all;'.that;.was ribu i tab'le-';un'der/.tlieV{Smp!us;,H«ve'iiue.rAdt: iW: conimencetnerit ■ to: 30th, iTunei last, jierebas the v suia if £4,781,531 j : shewing: ;aii' bver-paymerit mounting to iiß3,6B9,:arid therefore; due lyMhe- provinces to the (public: revenues, litis very interesting return gives usa'bird'sye view of :: tlie whole progress, and result of lie relative colonial; ahd-proyihcialexpendU iirepf/ordinary:reyenues sincelßsß. before' [uitting.it tcontrastilie : lie^.amount'B.^of-pro^inciar.parges\-tthd' : Bwi iliis.revehuedistributed be added/together it rill be found that the total of provincial: barges amounts; to £2,762,006, and ■ that -of plqiiiai'clmrges to £2,3i8,00ft.; tlius 4heiring, ,n excess of/provincial 'over colonial charges :pparent ; proceeds' oi' ts. taxation have been: absorbed. It will be eeii -that if tlie 'sum '■■■■oi £183,689 above eferred.tb- as Oyerpaidsto the: provinces had lot been- so overpaid.;tl)e ; :revenues of New lealaiid (exclusive of territorial- revenue) vdul.d- have been nearly- .equally, shared letween the colony, on the one liandj and-tlie irbvirices on;the', other during the last nine fears; and it is patent tliat tlie amounts lithertc< a])propriated for provincial services i.ave hot more than sufficed to'"provide for he..payment of 'the:;.interest, and sinking: unds on provincial loans, and. the gbneral nainteiiance. ,pf provincial administration. Jnless,-..-therefore, ..it.:be .decided to. force m ;.fundamen.tal changes, ''which- may be. iffected in either of' two ways,, according is either party holding, extreme views n:iy be dominant; that is to say, the jrovincea may be cast- iadrlft and. left to take care.: of their own loans, ind credit, and broughtiace to face with the >eople, by being obligediotax them'directly or the 'speaal:pur'pos'e..of provincial adniinisratioh (in \vh|ch event the. edst. of the lecessariesof- life might be considerably liminished by a. reduction: of: indirect taxaib'ni)—or the' General Government may be astajirift, the.colonialdebfebedisintegrated) M. tliepay ment of its interest arid. sinking: unds parcelled out as A charge on different iortions.of the colony and the i.G'en'eraKG'berhment reduced to a sMiov-nominis '■mbm.. Unless, I say, one ;or tlie other of liese,extreme. yiewsi'tie adopted, it follows: hat.-some' such distribution : of .revenue as hat indicated: by the results -bMie/inves'ti;ktiph.we: have, now:been.pursuing.mustbe Bade. The present: speaking is a Government, desires to steer a..:.cburse letween. these.'-two extremes.;,.it seeks-'to o maintain existing institutions.iii"a-State of fficiericy, provided those charged with.: their .dminwtratibii; ;are; willing : to taer.coritrolled ntlun,.:prudent : bp'unds; It'doeVriptintend o'-.- propose:.', art alteration 'ini.-the^-systeni .cciirdiag:.';to. which: the. Parliament.of--tiie ouritry ,been -tlie aediuni ;:|and itprpposes to.create an interest :oinmbn to the .cb:bny and tiie provinces n';.;tliose:yery.cpnsiderable. : revenues;deriyea rbm'.. such- taxation; It -takes' still broader iews, .and: is unwiljingNthat the unity of the :olony: shouldremain.krn'e^eidlename, and lesires' that the, powerful combination exiressed iii that term should be made to yield ts legitimate financial' by putting in notion the vastpowerVof a common :credit, ».hich is now frittered away, and, wasted W heing exercised, proYJncialiy; ; ..But n order that such, results: may be obiined, it is indispensable that the government of the colony shou!d : exist nsa ealiry with large controUiiig'poXyers. ; Influmeed then by the aboye considerations, arid >uided' by ,tlie,. T'esiiits, of ; the; investigation ivhiuli lias j list been traced olit, the .Go verrir pent now proposes , ; tb ; the--Cbmmittee that Jie.consolidated revenues should be divided equally be.tween.thecoipnyaiidtheprbvihces; tt.bnly -remains'- for me to shew, tlie precise iffect' of- thjs proposal ;in. figures. Stating then one-half the consolidated-reYenues;at £542,000, as the orie : side for lolpnwl, and. on ;t)ie btheri or'provincial ."services', land taking the; cbjpnitii: expenditure at £i40,267, ;it will be :seen ; that'there'! is only a very bare margin:ieft; : -:iAgain; taking the provincial charges at,,£2()4;173, Ifiridabalanct of £337,B27iivailabie forprovincial appropria : tipn j and comparing this amount'-'with thai which would:be:yielded ; by tiiree T eighths-Cuß toms. Keyenue, viz, ';£324.obb,- ; thb. resull ought to be regarded asonelvery favourable tc the.proviiices iril.nieasurei.anfl.l.as: will be ex p)ained,pre'3en.tly, : favourable; in manner.alsb ' l -!!i3 propos dof .the Gbverhrnent I : observi (and I inrite,the, particular attentirin of' thi cbnimittee..to:.niy;observations) was decided ti be niade in order that the provinces mightbi placedib the position of being able'themseive; t6,..make: >' districtsi of ,a::!cliaracter as permanentaslha w!iich, : :accbrding^:to,the;explanation : :liiavi just .giyenj; is; hbw?cbntemplated byithe pro ppjali.of: the-Government tb.be tiade.fbrth' prbviucestiiemselyes.; : ' -"■'"■'

"■ ; _ lit, further support of the : general expbsi.i tion .which I/have.just given of the priri;ciplesonwhicii; the financial/policy.of the Government /has,been based,/1 'proceed to de'velope our/particular,proposals, and. begin .with:the Consolidation;vof Provincial Loans. ;It.: : is;:almbst /unnecessary to'say;one word tn prove the necessity of some such measure/ Perhaps no measure has been more distinctly called; for by considerate .'men of all parties, by tlie public, press, and by those friends in ; England who watch the financial conditi m of the colony with interest.. It is sufficient to say that the appearance on the London market of/a : great variety, of paper, all secured on different, parts of the revenue -of, the :Coloriy,.all bidding; against one another with ;thelender of capital, has had (as.it.must have had). ; a disastrous effect on the credit of ;(he.cplony generally, and had resulted in Yery serious loss and embarrassment.. Two years sense of the evil, and ■prohibited,- the. provinces from exercising any further borrpvyiiig. powers."'/"'But. a general cill had been made,upo 1 the Government to: which it would, fail /in its duty ;to /the colony if it did/riot resjiond,:togo ; still,fur-; therand to deal with--.the:■outstanding engftgeriients into which; the provinces' liav e ; already/entered.. I db/'hoticonceal/fruiu myself. th.t de-irahle ;as./this'object, :\& -Nn Ciple of- thu measure ment: whether it will mett. aweptance from lake: it 'that jwat-mvii *re 'the■ .poiiit.'ilwt: hewed,rof.;,h ; : l vi,^.. c , ) |, ) ,^; s i lill| - |i:s - nb ; :/W' R' !f!i|ireMed -np.n/tlia' W l[ it/will l, e ; ' ■dillicult tvavoid;;iiwjikenhig a'very/intn'riil"' je ilriu; -y-on, (lie part p.Mltnsii'nrovl'hWswJiitli have been elnry of their cfcdii, and' iu:Jst 10

rs, nomical in I their expenditure, 'unless' it; in clearly provided that each'province shall Bt es : bear its own burdens 3 vtlmt ■ whilst the) co ic.- : solidated revenues; of ..'.the; whole : colony a as mortgnged..;.aßr;rt ; security' ; to the outsii iie. still; asbetween the provinces thei in/: selves; and the .General;; Government, tl :i- charges occasioned the 'Provincial deb bt; shall distinctly ; fai|^iipori:the,provincesM in which/arid in the proportions in which, the aj'i /debts hdye f ,been incurred- . :I»i order..to., bi as' that this principle lias been rigidly adhered t m ;it is necessary t6:read .togotht'r. ;,tlio : Coiisbi al dation Hill Hnd those .'.of /the; Tubl st. . Keyeriues. Bill relate to \tlie; pay men is' of/\rovcriue//to/;the, prbviiices. r . There. i-; ■ariother,pbiht ihiwhicli,, the Interests of tl !li : /provinces; .are.concerned which lias receive i-mucli attention.. Various opinions: have: bee s,; ■ as to: the actual'■; saving,; : both c is principal and of annual^lm'rgpj'-wliich. : rnay';.l ): '.effected by such measure.; .'andisomeof thef e. ■opinions/have beeii sufficiently extravagan h/ 1 wilt; not waste/ your time by.speculatio c which' aiiist be ofidqubtful;yai.ue| ; but,Filia p/ rsay thatby ordinary skill: and..prudence s very appreciable paying may probably I s /effected in the burdens/ ; of the colonj -., The/question:may,,lio.wevcr, be fairly asket 0 . wiipis to.havC; the/'advantage- of ..any.suc s. snyirigs ? and I will .briefly replyjithat th 1 measures of Government are frahied;;,wit 11, ..the object, of 'relieving;, bfjth :,. 'provinces; to the full .extent : to ; which an, i- saving- can be effecte/d,either bf : principal o e: annual eh'arges,.ahd : that, the' General Govern ii;^ment'fpreg6eß'a!l' : par.tici'patipii in'-tlie v, 'prpfit I'.i.; of thetransaction. There were:.several pro - : i pbsals wiiiclr,naturally presented: theiiiselve £ "to.our. minds when. considering the /nature o ai the measure it wouldbeour duty to propost t i. pne ; pliin.was simply to afflx.tp.tiieproyin -'. cial securities, as ...they stand, the: imprimdlu t of the General: to...g'ivj ,: tbe;endor'serne.nt of' the colony to provinciii l paper;' We rejected that ..plan mainly fp t; two reasons v firsty because we should l tliei ;:': merely ;have enhanced the. value of : tiie pro . jerty/ih the. hands of private; individuals ■..without ginning anything for thecolonyo f. the provinces .;■ and secondly; because wi ■ should have still left that iriebntenieri i' : variety of paper; upon-the market" wliicli./per :; .plexes the capitalist, and raises ihljis iiiiiii I tliafcs'qrt of doubt which m'ust'fllways-'be-.pait ;-■ ;;for by so much percent; 2, Anptherpbssibh ... plan, was: that of a cpmpulspryrecaltbf al ' prpyincial paper and;its■exc.iia'hgevfp'rcoiorii'a ;..- debentures. I heed hardly say that "-we-ffit i not think it necessary, and therefore did ho :; think, it wise, to run tlie risk of damaging ! pur credit by any such shock to the.feeling: i: of the creditor which he would'havi !...equally conceived it to be,even if we/lnV 1; forced■'. him; into; a favourable bargain "3, There, remained; therefore, but one ot.liei course, and that yra's a' voluntary-piircliasf and exchange of provincial for colonial secu; :.. rities, and that is' the/plan which. the/Govern . merit vita's adopted. When I say'voluntary ; f mean ypluntary on both sides—on the :pari of tlie Government as well as of the hbider.bl provincial paper. For whilst oh the one banc weliopetotbe able to offer the holder of prp : ' viheial debentures such fin improved security ■ as shall induce; liiih to pi»rt : with them eith'ei for cash Or 'for colonialdebentures, oil tht other hand it is necessary to tiike'caretljal the Government shall riot place itself in a position which may enable the creditor tc force- it to accept offers 1 'which' are not as favourable as the .colony has a fair right to expect. We propose to raise a loan with a maximum jiinitj but whioh is to be. raised only as required and'to. the extent required for purchasing; the provincial paper; and we jropose tliatall such purchases.shajl be niade iii cash or by exchanging colonial for provincial debentures by agents in England or 'els'ew'here upon tlie best terms which can be obtained. But we.do not think that, when the colony comes forward wiili the; offer-to enlarge the security upon which those debts have been incurred, it ought to allow the holders to wait ah indefinite time before availing themselves of the offer. We are hot, disposed to allow •speculators to wait /until the very offer of the Gbvernmentsiiall have enhanced the value of their claims, and then to expect to obtain from the Govern-I nient the.liiglier price, which tlie operations of the Government itself will have created. Wo therefore propose to limit the/.time during, which holders of provincial paper; can come in and avail them/Belyes. of; our offer; and, after that, to exclude itiiemfrghiall tlie benefits 'of-" the proposed .'.consolidation. Three years is the time to -iyhicli; we propose tp confine these operations, .andi/think we niay fairly ■anticipate' that in/ that time the great bullyf not the whole, of the provincial seeijritiea will jiave disappeared ifrpmibe/nmrice^'ahd/tliat'the' 'financial engagernents/of the colony .'Will be restored' to an; intelligible basis. But we have hot for- ' gotten ■that; some of tlie provinces liave /entered/into large; engagementsrippn the/faith pf/r/ai'sing:dpans.f'-wliicK- /have rot'yet/'been - fully' negotiated;. to;piace siich provinces,in. the; same/position (is;they.would have been/in', had this-Act not been passed. It'is piearlypf/rio 'use; that such /proyihees will imiiiediat'ely afterwards ■ ''have-' to"- ! he; bought in,- 'We 'therefpre- propose ..to -raise, liibiiey under tlijs bill io ; :the extent to .\yhicli any proyincifil; loans are still nnraised, and to : pay over that moriey.tp the.prbvince; In.;di.s-, tdbutihg '/tlie_ payments" amongst -tli'e-'p.r'oVv vinces, of the interest/and sinking: fundj .we tp,charge;agiuns.t-.each province'the. ■/exact/Bum ; lpr •wluch'-tlie'''Geher.al has^made/itselfliable"by"the' extinguishment' of its-debt,; ;/Thatis,/tb/ say, iflwe 'can/ buy .a.Xioo,deberiture;/6f Otago f6r;j£Bb, wp/'sjiall' /charge/against otago■ tlie interest and. sink-; ; ing fund oh /the : £BO ;6f debt whichHhe 1 General; Government.//lias incurred;- : And- ; we-propose/ to/ step out oT the. reveniies,,; every month, one-twelfth ."piart.'-o.f-tb'e.ahnualsum thus tb-us. ' Before;'how-; eyer;,leavirig the ..subject 'of." Consolidation, of. ,tlie ; /Provincial;Lpansi'lNmnst^;hot bmit)tb/ explain the. p'royisipns/o'f the bill,;as specially :.affecting/Uie;Prbvince/bf/Sbuthlahd.' Wliilat; .P.reparing'this measureiit;'was : impossibie/ not/ ;to/;perceiye/that/tlie/princip!e/6 ;;tibn; : .intrpduced two years agoy for/the special : ; reliet;p;f. Scbt|arid;;was, by .tlie present,mea;i me/inevitable.that,np ; Tlieinfcrence"tlnisvbeca greater, restriction /pughUb/be-idaced/onthe/ ;Provirice'of ; Hputhlaiid : tliaHthat;imposed:on" : o^>? r /:P roT jbceß,.;and it;is.;accordingly, prp.; .pbsedv.that;/tbe/publ.ic-lands/bf ; 'Southland. .Bhould. : not.b.e;.tied/Hp;tb.a,greater.e'xteiitthan those of pther/'prpyinces;affected: by/thei pro-. .posed measure. /4; Tliere;was; a fourth plari, ; whichjwas not oyeripoked by usiri entertaining ■ .this /not only of the provinees,,but.of .the/Colony) and include the whole in p.iie large loan; and' i there were, npt/wantiug.many good' argut ments in favour of such /a .scheme. ■'■'VYe. re- ; jected/ify however, for/many/reason's which appeared of sufficient weight;- First,:we could npt;-;make /sueh^a/'/plah:.-cbmpletei/ he: ;cause. a/part/of the/debts;/of/the/ Colony is guaranteed by the, Hom e; Government, and could not.,^^be;/called in;,.an 1 secondly,, we do not think/that this.is the tin!e... , ;to':'://'.dißtnrb-.''onr/''..opernt!6ns : :.,.more than is. : absolutely necessary.; Nordid there appear to: us/to be any sufficient pecuniary advantage to be gained by replacing one form of debenture- by another, the security for the two being identical. It seemed, not impossible that ..any small pecuniary,; advantage anticipated might,be more than destroyed by tlie.appearance of performing an operation/ the object of which might not be very intek h'gible/.tb.the money-lender,/Thocdntiiigent gain "might be/but. "small, the; loss from unnecessary.tampering with.,existing; securities would' certainly be; appreciable, and .'.'there-'' fore .we abide.by/tlieSsafe munvymkumn inovere,.;.: l/desire to .ppiht.out'tliiii'/reading ,the..Consolidation .of."Lorins -Bill /^uj./the J'ublie/'llevenues/ :be >een: : .that we offer', to the/creditors .dated..revenuesof the';colony as a. scciirity,' ;aiid;we;;take;uie/c!irre,!t payments of interest/ ,mi l;s/'iiking/fuiid ; oiit;bf.' the- jiroyinciii|;shiire ■ it.f. th dj epiispl ida ted/ re venue..- ■ 1.-li use. nr.ovi Or cjiil 'liiaii's : howeyer, ; .have, been mo.stly;.ruiVed' nii ithe/'seclirity .of. the land .revenue, we have therefore proviiicd thatwliere ;the- provincial :?hare;;pf tjie consplidated/funil. falls sho'rj, tliei General Gove'rhriie.iit hiiiy immediately; come''■ui'm'iii the in.iid' fund of the purticuiar province; Vhiclusindefaitlt; : 'i'lie creditor; th«ref6re, whilstlioniiiiiiily iiaviiig only.the seciirity of tlie consolidated fund, hits really that of-the

land fund as well. I think the provincp generally will prefer that the repayments of interest should be taken in this manner than that, the General Government should stop them out of the land fund in the first instance. Financially of course it would make ;. no difference ; but there is a V.Btrong feeling in favour of having the./ lanil fund paid over directly day by day to. the provincial chest, which we do not "wish-to disturb, and seo no necessity for dls- ' turbing. I have explained the financial bearhigs/of the measure, but it has political oonsequences which ought not to pass unnoticed; and.l take the opportunity of recording my opinion/ that, should this measure become ;law,/iii 9 iii| ir separation will have become well : nigh impracticable. Closely connected '-■; with tlie measure for the consoli'datipn/.of the provincial loans is the Public .Hev'enues Bill. The two must be read togetlH;r,/;for they are inseparable parts of the '"scheme/of financial policy which we propose. I slialt endeavour briefly to state the objects of thisriiensure. First, when we propose to .'undertake the provincial debts as a colonial liability, ani to recoup the general chest out .of,.provincial revenues, the question is immediatly forced upon us—What does provincial revenue consist of ? Are we to rest -.satisfied, under the Surplus Revenues Act? The /Gpvcrnmeiit has, as I have before explained; 5 at length come to the conclusion that /the system d! distributing the surplus revenues/requires to he reconstructed. Again, we are of opinion that the whole system under: which the accounts of the colony are .kept/requires to be simplified, and that tlie control and audit of the public

'.moneys/; requires to be more effective. We jiave./htttt forced on us a variety of, points, in ■ which ..the operation of the Comptroller's Act is;.inconsistent with other parts of the .financial; system, and these are matters .whichimust be dealt with in order to avoid the utmost public inconvenience. The committee/will therefore perceive that the time .had'arriyed when it became the duty of the ■■Government to review the machinery by which tlie public moneys are managed, and, ifippssible, to consolidate all the law upon this/great subject into one comprehensive, simple;.and intelligent statute. That is the /purpose/of the Public Revenues Bill, and which it will be my duty to propose, and wliich will be placed in your hands without delay,-./ Subsequent opportunities will present themselves for explaining in detail the prp/yisions of tlie measure. Tne bill may be considered as having two distinct parts, I .anticipate that all that part wliich is principally/of;a technical character will meet with the unanimous approval of the House, as I anicertain that its results will that of the ■country. The other part, which comprises what .may be called the new policy introduced by. the measure, will he found, and is wholly contained, in three clauses under the heiid; of " Revenues payable to provinces." I need, hardly say, after the elaborate explanation. 1/ have already given the committee, •that -wel propose to repeal the Surplus lle-

venues Act. No one, lam sure, will contend for the maintenance of a law, the operation.■; of which has to be suspended whenever it acts differently from what was supposed. .Such a conduct of financial affairs must end in tlie : worst embarrassment. We, therefore, ■ v propose'-tb replace the existing law by a new arrangement. We propose to retain onehalf.of .the consolidated fund permanently as the revenue of the General Government, and to'settle one-half, with certain deductions, permanently on the Provinces. Those deductions are:-first, for the cost of services voted.by the House, but provincially charged; and, secondly, the annual charges to which the General Government will become liable ' oh acepiiht of the purchase or exchange of I provincial debentures. We propose also to make an entire change in the manner of computing the sums payable to the Provinces, arid to make the account relate solely to past ;cash ; transactions. For example, say in the month' February, as soon as the accounts /arrive .from various parts of the Colony, the Treasurer/will make up an account of the lialf/of-the actual sums paid into the consolidated .funds in each Province during the month of January, and of the actual sums ■expendedjbn account of general services provincially ieharged during the same month, and the difference will be the sum belonging to the/Provinces for the month of January. If there is/anything due from the Provinces on account of interest for its debentures bought and'charged under the Consolidation Act, that will be deducted also each month, at the rate: of one-twelfth of the annual charge. Now VtiiisZ account will absolutely close all between the Gene-

r/al Gpyernment and tlie Provinces j up 'to date; No money will ever be paid in advance, no balance left unpaid. The account, depending on past cash transactions, instead, of; on future contingencies, will be 'absolutely-closed month by month, and I ventureitb.say that this result will be equally :acceptab|e,to the General Government, to the ;pr6viiices, and to the public—to the General Gbyernnient, whose finance will no longer he /obstructed, and its accounts mystified, by .;engagements difficult to be ascertained and never /settled; to the provinces, who will no •longer/;be/'tempted to extravagance by the anticipation of "healing something to its advantage" in the annual balance sheet,or irritated ;by the prospect of having to refund sums /which it had overdrawn in enforced ignorance of its real position; arid to the public who may possibly begin to understand something of the manner iu which its money is .disposed of, which any one but a most accomplished accountant must despair of doing : uhder;our present system. I have said that the provinces are at present indebted to the ■General Government in a sum wliich somewhat.exceeds £183,000. At a time when an .entirely new arrangement i 3 being introduced, arid/a new system of accounts inaugurated, ;it :: would ,be extremely embarrassing if the simplicity/of the new system were destroyed, and its/.working spoiled by the retention on pur booksdf engagements wliich cannot fail to be a/subject of irritation between the General ..Government and the provinces. We have; therefore, thought it wise to propose to the: House that these debt} should disappear ;together/with the Act out of which they have nrisen;, ; We propose to abandon this claim altogether on the part of the General Governraeiit.;: If, however, we were simply to pass a sponge-over the entry, justice would not be

done as between province and province. The provinces have been nil overpaid, but not all in;"the;same proportion. Simply to cancel the. debt, therefore, wou'd be to take from one pr')Vince.:in; order to give to another. We purpose', therefore, to abandon this claim on the part; of the Government, but to require some provinces to pay such sums as shall adjustuhe amount fairly between all. The General Government will stand in the position of a liquidator, and will pay 16 some provinces the whole of the amounts which it receives from others, and we shall ask that a short bill shall be passed, stating specifically the sums, to be received and paid by each province in first liquidation of the account. There is one exception to this, It is the case of Marlhorough, which, I think, requires the special consideration of the committee. Under, the operation of the Surplus Revenue Act Marlborough stands indebted to the General Government in the whole account from 1858 to 1867. That is to say, her share of the surplus revenue is some four or five thousand pounds less than nothing. She has been paid about £7OOO as surplus revenue, and in. the proposed adjustment of the account i ; Marlborough would have to refund , about, £12,000 to other provinces. Now,.;:it .'is impossible that Marlborough can .pay.;this money. The sum, therefore, for distribution will be deficient by that nmonnt.;'. The fairest arrangement seems to be that it should be divided equally between 'Wellington; and Nelson, because it is owing to the fact that the Customs duties on goods consumed in Marlborough are to a certain extent paid in Nelson and Wel'ington, that ihe account.with Marlborough assumes a character so; different from that of nil other ■provinces;'-'We have, in fact, thrown upon Marllioroiigh/the same proportional charges iis'iipon.. other provinces j whilst she is acoi-di-'nttilly.orfmin other causes deprived of the .ruvpiiu'es.'".by/which those charges are to be met i'-wliiljs'rJtlio revenues arc infringed on hy t;\va, ( jf/her neighbours, the expenditure 'borne .611r .those revenues is voted by the l|misey;tlmt: is, tlie pro mlu share of tho ■general Charges, and the cost of the general

Borvices provincially charged, have been larger than the total amount of the-revenues received. The total sum is not large. Both Wellington and Nelson, which, if matters remain as they are, would have to refund considerable sums to the General Government, will, even after the special arrangement as regards Marlborough, have to receive instead of pay money. Theirs will not, therefore, be a case of hardship, The total result of the operation will be as follows; £ Auckland will have to receive ... 25,380 Wellington „ ... ... 4,815 Nelson 615 Canterbury „ 618 31,428 On the other hand, £ Taranaki will liavo to pay 375 Hawke'sßay „ 301 Gtago , 25,140 Southland „ 5,611 Thus the total sums received and paid oyer in liquidation of this debt of £183,688 9s 6d, will be found oidy to amount to £31,428. Altogether, Mr Carleton, I think this may be considered an unusually pretty transaction, for every party to it comes out satisfied. The General Government assumss the dignified attitude of Paterfamilias hushing the clamour of his nine children, who were expecting to be punished, by a judicious distribution of sweetmeats, which he himself disdains to taste. Each of the nine provinces must needs be pleased with the share allotted to it, when it regards this statement of sums due by the provinces, under the Surplus Revenues Act, viz. : Dr £ a. d. Auckland i 7j954 15 ut taranaki 4j0 28 710 Hawke's Bay Wellington 10,297 18 10 ela , ( ? n , ' ... 4,526 12 11 Marlborough 12,063 12 6 Canterbury 36,006 15 6 J? ta K° , 80,445 4 2 botlt hland 13) 7 09 ut 3

£183,688 9 6 This transaction will close the whole of the operations under the Surplus Revenues Act Before I proceeded to the explanation of the proposal for division of the ordinary revenues of the colony, I alluded to an arrangement for relieving those revenues of certain charges, and observed in effect that unless some arrangement of the sort were made a system of retrenchment alone would not suffice to enable such a scheme of division to be put in practice this year. The committee will have anticipated from the tenor of these observations that it would be necessary to take up a further sum of money. lam now going to explain the exact proposal of the Government in this respect. With reference to the loan of 1863, it may be stated broadly that when the whole of the temporary 8 per cent, bonds are taken up, the colony will have issued three millions of debentures, on wliich the discount is upwards of £260,000. Now the Government do not propose asking for a new Loan Act, for the Act of 1863 is held to confer the legal authority necessary to raise three millions sterling. But it will ask for a further Loan Appropriation Act to provide for the following extraordinary services; which I may observe are of a character consonant with the original appropriations of moneys to be raised under that Act, viz.:— Telegraph Extension 47,412 Marine (Lighthouses) 19^25 Defence _ 109^025 Taranaki Debentures 33 750 Contingent Defence 45,000

Amounting to £259,912 When the proposed Loan Appropriation Bill is introduced estimates will be brought down shewing the estimated expenditure in detail, but I take the present opportunity of stating that one-half of the sum of £109,000, set down against the item " Defence," is for liabilities, and, therefore, not a recurring charge. I also take this occasion of giving explanations of the proposals of the Government with regard to Taranaki. There are two financial matters to be adjusted with regar I jto that province. 1. With regard to the Taranaki debentures, I may state that they form part of the compensation already aAvarded; the interest has always been paid by the Colony, but the existence of those debentures is an obstruction to further operations of the province with the bank which holds them. It is proposed to take them up. 2. In 1856 a sum of £36,000 was allocated to that province out of the half million loan. Of this, £20,000 without interest and £l6 000 with interest. To the present date a subsidy has been paid of £2,200 per annum by the Colony to the Province of Taranaki in lieu of land revenue. On final adjustment of the question of handing over the confiscated ; lands, tin's subsidy would cease, and the interest and sinking fund on £16,000 become chargeable to the province; leaving on -the transaction a relief to the Colony of £3,160. If the commiitee accede to our proposed loan appropriations, I believe that it will not be necessary to attach the £150,000 Treasury Bills authorized to be issued last year to the permanent debt of the colony. On the contrary, when it is b.irne in mind that under the provisions of the Loan Consolidation Act power will be taken to recoup to the colony the sum of say £43,000 advanced to the Province of Southland; also, that there is every reason fo hope that the amount put down for contingent defence will not be required, for it is only an emergeney vote (although one that must be provided for) and when it is further borne in mind that there are sums amounting to £34,000 which appear on the estimates of this year, but are of an exceptional character, and therefore, not likely to recur, I think it may be fairly anticipated that if the committee consents to our proposal that the sum of three millions sterling should he raised under the Act of 1866, the Treasury Bills, to which I have referred, can be provided for without still further increasing our permanent debt. At any rate, I do not see how otherwise the contemplated provision for the provinces can be effected this year; and if it be not, I do not see how the provinces can meet their engagements, an event which must re-act disastrously, for a time at least, on the whole colony. Krom the consideration of the losses sustained by the colony in the negotiation of the loan of 1863, [ naturally pass on to that of the position of the colony as regards the claim of the Imperial Government, for the two questions are dependent on each other. It is well-known to the committee that the Imperial Government have from time to time been most urgent in their desire to adjust outstanding accounts, in which they have been met by a like anxiety on the part of successive Colonial Governments. An attempt was nude towards such adjustment by the appointment of Mr Crosbie Ward as agent in 1868, ftff-1 Mr leader Wood subsequently, who placed themselves in personal communication with the home authorities. These attempts were not successful, and the Colonial Government, finding the Imperial Treasury persistently urging a settlement of past and accruing claims, determined to evince the readiness of the Colony to meet these demands, and instructed the Crown Agents to hand over to the Imperial authorities £500,000 in New Zealand Colonial Securities. Before long, however, the necessity of appointing a Commission to examine into accounts became apparent. At the close of last year Mr Commissary-General Jones was appointed on the part of the Imperial Government, and my lion, friend Major Richarson, a member of the Executive Government, was commissioned to represent the Colony. I lay upon the table a report of the Colonial Commissioner on the claims of the Imperial Treasury, and also copies of correspondence which has taken place in connection with this subjeut. It will not be necessary that I should do more than just summarize the results, as lion, members will immediately be in possession of the documents thomseives, The claims of the Imperial Treasury, stretching back to 184S, amount to the sum of £1,301,963 9s 3d, composed as follows: Capitation charge for Im- £ s. d. perial Troops ... 353,817 10 0 Compound interest capitalized annually ... 167,273 7 1 Advances for colonial troops 582,156 17 7 Miscellaneous 201,710 14 7 £1,304,963 9 3

The Colonial Commissioner, after carefully considering these charges, and the grounds on which they rested, was of opinion that the turn of £516,130 12s 5d was inadmissible, thus reducing the claim to £759,621 14s 7d, up to September, 1866. A few weeks prior to the forwarding of the Colonial Commissioner's report on these claims, the Imperial Commissioner returned to England, for reasons which may he found in the correspondence above referred to; and in consequence it was not possible to proceed any further in the investigation. I may here mention, however, that the counter claims of the colony, with schedules attached, have bien forwarded to the Secretary of State for the Colonies. The amount of these counter claims is as follows, viz : £ t, d. Colonial Debentures sold at , t Par 500,000 0 0 Military roads 102,875 9 10 Proportion of river transport charges 97,329 0 11 Miscellaneous 206,652 4 11 £906,856 15 6 It will now appear that, on the supposition that the sums comprising that counter claim will not be much, if at all, affected by examination in the Imperial Treasury department, there will remain due by the Imperial Government, on a final adjustment, the sum of £147,235 Is Id, and here the question would rest, viewed as a mere matter of account; but, as the Colonial Commissioner has very properly observed, there are claims which the colony may justly prefer, and which I am sure Great Britain will not be slow to recognise, arising out of the. peculiar connection which existed between the Crown, the colony, and the native race, at the time when these liabilities were incurred. The nature and extent of these liabilities are dealt with in the report of my honourable friend, which I commend to the attention of the committee as a monument of patient and impartial research. But I must be allowed to draw attention to the fact that the colony has expended and become charged with in aid of the suppression of the rebellion against the sovereignty of the Crown, the following sums : £ s. d. The colony has actually expended 2,725,660 18 8 Is charged by the Imperial Treasury with 1,304,963 17 1

£4,030,624 15 It is a duty incumbent on me that I shoul make this public statement, whilst I at th same time express a belief on the part of Ne' Zealand that the Imperial Government wil upon a careful review of the whole circurc stances, extend that consideration to th colony which would materially aid it in th struggle it is now making to get out of th embarrassments created by the war. I ap proach another disagreeable sequence of th loan of 1868. It was within the original scop of the policy of 1863 to charge certain ex penditure locally. This intention was carrier out by the Legislature of 1865 and 1866 During the past financial year it was incum bent on the Treasurer to recoup certain in terest and sinking funds from the province of the North Island. I regret lo have to in form the committee that 1 have to a grea extent failed in my endeavours to enforc< these recoveries. I can also assure the com' mittee that this failure did not arise from an; want of efforts on my part. The Province' of Auckland, Taranaki, and Ilawke's Bay pleaded their inability to make the payments and the Government, not being prepared t< drive those provinces into embarrassment decided not to enforce the claim until Par liament should have considered the question I have now to state that it is one of the pro posals of the Government to relieve the pre vinces of the North Island from the paymem of this special debt. I am ready to admi that, so far as the Province of We.'lingtor is concerned, the reasons why she should b released from this allocated debt an not so cogent as they are in tin case of the other three provinces The Government, however, believes that the committee would not be disposed t( make any exception (and the amount is com' paratively inconsiderable) j if, that is to say, it should approve of the general scope of the financial policy of the Government which is intended to be one of final provincial adjustments. There still remains one more subject to bring under the consideration of the committee. It is also a legacy of the policy of 1863. I refer to the confiscated lands. Great expectations were once entertained, but these have been disappointed. I wish I could say that the administration had been altogether satisfactory, either to the colony or the Government. It must be confessed, however that the whole affair has, from the very first] been surrounded with great and special difficulties, and I very much doubt whether any other administrators could have effected more. Much, indeed, has been achieved ; and had the original calculations been less sanguine, the subsequent disappointment would have proportionately diminished. Nevertheless, on large grounds of policy, the Government has, after a very careful consideration of this subject, decided to propose to the committee that the confiscated lands should, with certain limited exceptions, and subject to conditions as to fulfilment of engagements with natives and others, be handed over as speedily as possible to the respective provinces for their beneficial administration, and free of all claims for past special expenditure. In a eolonizing point of view, I believe this proposal will be hailed with satisfaction by the provinces of the North Island. In a financial point of view, I am not going to pretend that any great boon is being proffered. There are

some who are sufficiently sanguine to believe that a considerable revenue will be derived from this territory. For my own part, I candidly confess that, judging from the past (during which the cost has far exceeded the proceeds), I cannot arrive at the same conclusion . Nevertheless, the col mizing opportunities which will be thus afforded to the provinces, cannot, I think be valued too highly. A bill on this subject will accordingly be introduced to give effect to this proposal. I cannot, however, dismiss the consideration of this and the two preceding topics without adverting to the policy of 1856; and I particularly ask those who may be inclined to regard our proposal as over-favourable to the North to give their attention for a short t me. In 1856 the colony adopted the policy of localizing the land revenues, and declined to reserve for itself even such a proportion of that revenue as might be regarded as a royalty. In this respect, no less than in others, there is a fundamental difference between the financial policy adopted in tho United States of America and that pursued in New Zealand. In America, notjjonly do they regard the customs duties as general revenue (ami if any tax is of a general character it is certainly customs duties) but also territorial revenue; whereas in New Zealand we have localized customs revenue as well as territorial reveuue. As this is a very interesting subject I will cite before the committee a high authority; I quote from Kent on American Law. " By the Act of Congress of September 4th, 1841, e. 16, ten per cent of the net proceeds of the sale of the public lands to be made subsequent to the 31st Decembor, 1841, within the limits of the States of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Alabama, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Michigan, are to be paid to those States respectively; and the residue of those net proceeds, subject to certain provisos, divided half-yearly among the twenty-six States of the Union, and the district of Columbia, and the territories of Wisconsin, lowa, and Florida, according to their respective federal representative population, as ascertained by the last census, to be applied by the Legislatures of the said States to such purposes as they should direct," Hut in order to ascertain what has been the financial effect of the policy of 1856. I refer to a very interesting and comparative lteturn(No. VI.) of the Imports and Exports, and Territorial and Ordinary Kevonues of the North and Middle Islands respectively. There is not time now to do more than just glance at this statement. But when I inform the c mimictee that the figures shew that from the vear 1656-7 to the 30th June las the Middle Island hiiß received as territorial revenue, in excess of that of the North Island ([repeat the words," in excess of that of the North Island"), £3,154,635, the full effect of that policy is perceived; and the South would do well to recollect these figures when proposals

are made to hand over certain territories fM encumbered as they are) t theprJvinH the North Island, and to relieve tW e ° f vmces of the charges of certain debs arising out of the transactions2 the loan of 1863; and also when it i,T r posed to raise the full amount of three SS" ion. string But it is necessary to £* the discount into consideration, to brhw the figures to an equation. I mean th»f*? p amount of territorial revenue received? 8 the Mouth, in excess of that recL? by the North, will (if three 2 I 4 sterling be borrowed) about equal the arn« t of the debt that will then have been fiS on account of the war in the North £? The figures are significant, and the follr.win question forces itself on our notice « flI for the policy of 1856, would the loan of Z have been necessary ?» The imports It exports and ordinary revenue tables of f\statement also contain an instructive ut, for they shew that during the first iialfof th* period under examination, up to the era 7t gold discoveries in the South, the North Vt only kept puce with the South, but for tl greater part of that period, contributed m, m the largest share of the revenues 0 ? country. It would be well to bear i n mn , that prudent people act as though «what h been may be again." Let me not, } m ™* be misunderstood. I guard myself aeaincf being supposed to have rai,ed thsquj'fi? either on behalf of the Government or ' Z' pendently with any arriere pane. A bar,,!; is a bargain all the world over. But whr questions cognate to, and arising out of former bargain come to be settled it j, J only competent hut often necessary to tin the effect of such a bargain, sir i h nothing more to add; I am afraid I| lavp Y! this time wearied the commiU.te-I am null sure I have wearied myself—without W ever, exhausting the various important s ,,h jeets which have come under coiinfe,;""' and certainly without doin K them justice r can only commend the financial proposals nf the Government as a whole to the favourable consideration of the committee; believin. them to be just and conciliatory, and there fore wise; and moreover calculated if accepted in the same spirit in which thev'a» intended to be submitted by the Government to impart a substantial character to the cr-dit of New Zealand which it has never vet attained. It only remains, MrCarleton for me to move, "That a sum not exceeding £SOOO be granted to Her Majesty, to provide for the reception of his Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, on the occasion of his visit to the colony of New Zealand."

—#— [from a correspondent.] August 7. The debate upon the Local Governments Bill commenced on Tuesday. I Jiave already given you a sketch of the main provisions of tie bill, and you have, no doubt, received ere this, a cjpy of the bill itself. The two or three days allowed to members to master the provisions of this portentous measure have resulted in a very general condemnation of the bill—so general as to make it a matter of very great doubt whether it will ever pass a second reading, The Government itself does not seem enamoured of its bantling Whatever pride and satisfaction might have been felt by its authors in the comparative quiet of the recess, has altogether vanished now that the infant has to be submitted to the inspeclion of the House. Instead of vaunting its beauties and claiming credit for its fair proportions, the Government nurse', with the exception of Mr Stafford, dandle it before members in a very apologetic manner and express a perfect willingness to submit their helpless charge to any kind of treatment short of total destruction. In fact, if we may believe s -me of the statements made last night by members of the Government, the most objectionable features of the bill will be given up one by one, and the preI sent measure be reduced to a shadowy likeness of its former self. And this is as it should be, for (he bill as it stands now is unquestionably- the deathwarrant of Provincial Governments. The mode of execution is not direct, and may not be rapid, but it is perfectly certain It is not by a straight open thrust of the knife that the victim is doomed to die, but rather by the easy process of opening the veins, There is to be no scuffle, no violence, nothing to outrage the feelings, only a swoon, and then —the last quiet sleep. If you have taken the trouble to study the provisions of the bill, I think you will agree with me that, under the pretence of affording assistance to outlying districts, the measure is intended to sap the foundations of provincial institutions. The power of the purse will in a great degree be taken out of the hands of the local Government and Council. An infinite number of districts within a province will be raistd up and rendered perfectly independent of provincial authority. They will be subsidized out of that portion of the general revenue which of right belongs to and is now returned to the provinces, and this subsidy will be given without consulting the Provincial Government, and without usingthe provincial machinery. Further than this, these new independent districts will be subsidized by the General Government with certain fixed proportions of the land fund raised within their districts. This revolu-

tionary measure, again, is to be enacted quite independently of the Provincial Government. Thus will be established what the Government has long been (timing at—the principle that the General Government has an

independent power to deal villi our land funds. True, it may be said that the General Government only proposes to satisfy a general wish throughout the colony that outlying districts should be ensured a fair share of the revenue. But this could be done simply by enforcing upon the Provincial authorities a proper attention to the demands of the districts, and there is no necessity for ignoring the existence and the rights of the local governments. It is obvious, therefore, that it isjpart of a deliberate scheme to tamper with the. land fund of the provinces. As such, I hope it will meet with general condemnation at the hands of the people of Canterbury. There, at any rate, justice would have been meted out to the Bond Boards had not the funds of the Province been locked up by a Government which rashly entered into contracts for immense works before the loans which were to pay for those works had been realise I, Successive Governments and Councils have enunciated again and again the principle that a large percentage of the land fund should be devoted to the districts out of which the fund was raised, and it is only because circumstances have overborne those Governments that the stipulation has not been faithfully carried out. The details of the bill are in many respects very faulty, notably so where no provision is made to reduce or stop altogether the representation in the Council of districts which are fully endowed, and have become quite independent of the province. In fact it is clear that the measure has been somewhat carelessly drafted from the model of a Victorian Bill, which has, I believe, proved very injurious to that colony. The debate was opened on Tuesday by Mr Stafford, who moved the second readiug of the bill, reserving his observations till he replied. Mr Haughton seconded the motion, and spoke in support of the bill. I may say that his speech was utterly unworthy of the occasion. Not a single principle involved in the bill was touched upon, and the measure of support given consisted mainly in a large amount of feeble jokes levelled at provincial institutions. Mr J. O'Neill, of Auckland, followed with a few temperate and sensible remarks, the purport of which was an invitation to the Government to postpone the bill in order to give time for the pubbc to judge its merits. .\lr Brandon, of Wellington, succeeded, and moved an amendment against the second reading- " r Brandon reviewed Iho bill at some length, and shewc I that it was altogether hostile to Provincial Governments; tint it to k away important powers from Superintendents and Councils ;ni.l hinded them over to t" e Governor and bi.< advisers. Mr Jollie spoke against the bill, but declared that he should vote for the second reading and reserve his

nbiectibns It or Committee.: ::Mr, Travers, on Ucontr ft Uiure,' but stated that die:; should, -vote aninrt .the-second reading: ~Mr Travers commenced aiisvspeech,^which, .by-the-by,: hardly touched --upon"- the question at issue, _j t l, : the! early, historyof constitutional, government iii.New'Zeiland, He then enUvened his Jiearers witti a racy description of ; the weak .side of prbrinrial:: institutionSi -especially: as. .'acted,; out,: : jn CaaterbtiEy, and: finally, :Rfter '. henping S H possible riiHcnle- upon. Superintendents and-Provincial Councils,- he arrived...at.the Tfr y logical conclusion that it was the right thingto throw;:out-a bill:whicU^as : iiitrb-.. duced exnres'ly fori the piirpnseof destroy-: • „ (hose institutiohs. • Mr G; Graham spoke; against the Wll, and 1 ended by advocating; a specific of. his own—that; the/.two Islands should separate years;,bot : reniain : federated for certain, purposes- .Mr Cox .imported the bill, and objected to any post--Bonenient on the., ground,.that the ..outlying districts needed a measnrcjbr thiskind-for their protection, !Mr. Bunny, !of Wellington.; followed with some common-place;;remark's in favour of the measure. : Mr Fitzli.eThertthe Colonial Treasurer, : then rose to defend: the bill. Happened ins case by deprecating:-; the idea that the General Govertinieiit was tdVerse to the provinces; After spending some time in dustin?. the!eyes of the ..House, he w« nt on r-i saythat!;the; Government:felt itself cotnpcHed to listen.to the complaints.' of outlying districts. He .chareed the ProTincial Governments witly : :havingne?lected their special duties/. 'He.expressed. himself-' willing to alter the' -provisions, of tlie: billlargely in Cftnimitfee; and, finally; he warned landed proprietor, liotli.greatandsmall;that they must not think of taMtionby! throwing put the bill; Mr .Reynolds, continued the debate;with Speech shewing that: th e proposed bill was unnecessary in Otago, which had already, providedample machinery for attending to the wants of-, the outlying, districts. The Hon.'-Mr Hal)-supported the, measure, -declariiig. that.'t'ie, provinces; had., done good work. in .their -day,. ;and; leaving .it' to be inferred that:Uheir;;c^y!was ; ;oyer. : He; objected at some-length ",to..the .influence, brought to bear hy the..prpyiricesunpn-the. General Government, but. apparently finding that lie Was getting oil dangerous ground;he denied that it was on 'that account;,the ; ,biir' was now introduced. Hedeclared; that the measure was intended solelyto<io;the .work the provinces were no. longer-fit to work of local. - Mr Hall begged, hard' would : affirm .the;prin- : . cipie oHlie bill; by ptissing the Becbndreading.: Mr Hall spoke without heart,, as- may. well be 'imagined., Ttw debate was then adjourned.. ■■;.;, ■■'' ;;... i .;■ '-. :,' .... ' ..... . Augusts. The debate Syas resumed last night by Mr Vogel at half-past eight' and continued till half-past twelve, the other speakers being Major Heaphy, MrStevens, arid Mr Dillon Bell. The speeches" of Mr V»gel and Mr Dillon JBell contain many valuable arguments against the measure, and touch upon all the principal objectionable features. Mr Dillon Bell spoke ■mthgreatwariritb,and at times became really eloquent; ..The cause of the warmth can be explained;- .Before--.the,..debate.;<'ame on Mr, Bell put some:'Teryvrpertinent 'questions; which affected the financial part of the Local;. Government scheme. ;;These the.Goverrimeht: declinedv..tb,.answer/,and! when! they . were pressed Mr. ; Staffordadopted"a tonepf!petuance. somewhat common to him, but singularly unbecoming in: a gentleman who holds so :high'jaTt;pfficial''pos'ition } 'and oneiii'_.wlii'iriri : : suavity; is. so essentially necessary.' : . Mr Richmond also taunted Mr Bell with putting: these questions, for the purpose.of embarrassing the Government.' The tone of reply from the .Government bench had the effect of disturbing Mr Bell's serenity of temper, and lie rebutted the charges and;rehuked the tone adopted/towards him in a way which-the Government will probably;remember -for; some,time to come. I regret that I cannot; give ypu c a more detailed account of!-last night's debate; but the English mail closes to-day,:and must be my excuse. I shall send you an account of .what will probably be the fiiusK tomorrow; ' ■"■■■ : ../ : ';.J:-'..;'; ■!;;-■; ' >-':.; August .9. ■' My letter of- yesterday gave you ;a slight sketch of the debate onthe Local Government Bill as far as it had gone.. .The ; .'.-.debate- was resumed last night, and ended; Jn'.the hill being thrown out by a majority of .nine! The colony will hear no more, therefore; of; this revolutionary measure, and, the Ministry willhave to reconstruct their estimates, in so far as they may have been affected by : . the\raea-. sure. I have already mentioned that;Mr Vogel opened the debate on the second -day, and that bis speech and that of Mr Dillon Bell." contain nearly all .the' arguments thathave been adduced against the; ; measure; I think I also mentioned thatj : Mr?-Stevens spoke, and that while he condemned the bill inalmost every respect, hedeclared his intention of supporting the second reading. I fear you will have to wait some time before you get the authentic reports of members' speeches on this debate.. The Government reporting and printing departments must be heavily taxed, owing to the length of the sitting, and I cannot imagine ..that they will be /able to, keep tidip. withtheVpublicatiou of the reports. ;;;; ■■'.''V^'--'V';'\ ;: :;;;;!:-.-";'

The debate was'resumed! .last jnigrit by Mr * J, C. Richmond, the Native .Minister, with a; ■; most significant speech, to which Idesire to .. call your special attention,and*that of;alls.'; your readers, who interest themselves-in poll-' ticai affairs.. I do this, because Mr Richmond; with, an .amount;of honesty!for which;he! deserves credit, unfolded his ideas 'upon.-the financial future of the colony, and in so doing,; conveyed a most, iinmistakeable impression; that he considered, the land fund of the pro--. Traces a cpmrnon property which .ought and,, wouldsome day be used'for the general'bene-. At of the whole. Some! two or three .years ago "your correspondent "drew the atteri- ;! tion of Canterbury: t«-a Bimilar statement. ; madei in the Houseof Representatives by Mr!. Fitzherbert, the;' ClolbmalTreasurerr'Many ! endeavours since,;been!njade;to,modify. ! that possibly be pursued; on: the present occasion.. : It will be.well for the public in ypurprovince! to remember that it hag a Government which ! : contains at least three members who bold the! fflort heterodox opinions about the compact; of 1856—by.which, the land furiil.was maae over tpthe provinces—and who.would, if they' coumyat any moment lay sacrilegious; hands Upon it. The point upon, which;.'electors, ought always, most that!! candidates for.seats in the House!pf Repre-: wntatiyes should pledge themselves, to stand by the compact of .1856. For the f.time will' surely come wheriVthat; agreement will be. cfhallenged. ;A:'- : In many .otber;respects;Mr Richmond's; speech was'interesting and. importantj; as comjng from the ministerial bench; He spoke! less cautiously, arid was .more discursive than;: his cdlleagnes;: Heprophesied that a radical; change mtisttake place in. the!..mode.of.raiß-. ing the revenues, and .supported ,the view, that local direct taxation rhust take the place of the present, system 'ofindirect faxatiori,,!!and; that if the provinces were to cbntiriuetbey!: ttust raise revenues for themselves apart from; the agency of.the General Government;. He advigedthe Middle;lsl ind; to give j urther; assistance to the North, on the ground; that it *ould prove a good investment to foster the North Island.; He prophesied that the; Can-; terbury land; ifnnrl would either soon 'cease: altogether, or .that the. ; present price would! havetb be : altered.;'He declared that if the hill did not pass: the! day of agitators would arrive, andthat. this great colony would be torn topiecesby.iriternal convulsions, and he wound U P by. saying, that if the Ministry was .defeated it would be through !th'e weight of its own honesty. It. was evident, as soon as Mr Richmond had 'concluded;! that he!hadad--fflitted trio much to suit his.colleagues,.,and. that he.had-tp.uße bis pwh;phrase—put his i «otin|t; ; Uptothat Timethe -House had; been asked by the Ministry ,to support the.! bhl sbjely-because, it affirmed!the'principle that "assistance-should he given to,outlying! districts, But, Mr Richmond; shewed,, arid; plairilyadniitted.thatthe measure redly tended, tofeyoliitionisethe country, by destroying the, existingfnrmsof lncaijgnvernmetitand taxa-, tion,,aiid;;substituting, others in! their place. The; debate then ,'.hecarrie : general l !and Mr' Mauii Mr Tleid,.Mr..Maearidrew;Mr,.Ludlam; Mr. Reeves, and Mr. Borhue took part in it successively, " Very little v . : ne'w matter'was

propounded by. either! of these gentlemen, but the mHJority.of;.!thcra ; : spoke;: sensibly and to the point. Some objected. to the. principle ,of .the bill,-and.{others ;!to ' matters of .'detail;!:!;',;!!-. ■■■ ':■- . MrStafford then followed in defence of the! measure, and I think it may fairly be said tluiti;he did not adduce a single fresh argtir meiitofany weight in'.its support. ■ Indeed it was hardly to bo expected that he. should, as he must have exhausted hiseffortsii\that ■directipn when! he.introdiiced the bill for the first.-.ti'ine.* His speech was, however,'a fair! .debating speech, ;and : his,; tone "was .more": ;])leiisaht;tlianpn.the,previoußday;SHo dia..trilmted his 'frowna.and; his favours with 'effect among .his .opponents'and^supporters,! !:aivd : iii this verjiuseful.art—one-essential to '' n.leader —lit .Stafford is quite an adept. -:■ He. knows how to flatter:;andjhow to browbeat'; :'■ .very well. always!; attended with.marked success!:..the- former is generally very ■siiga'r jplunis; dietributed to the good boys arej as a rule, very gratefuily' received,- and'"'""iii:' '.- ..most..cases are ifollowed: by^obvious : Vand : : •gratifying results. metb' uivntion thiitr on this pecasibh;. : ! Mr! 'Stevens came; in!. .for. a! very! large /piece ;.of. cake.; In. Mr; Stafford's opinion;; Mr..SteveiU;;ha!d-miidp!tlie.mostiimportant.. ;speech: of ; -. ■MtU great ideas,wliic!i were':, worthy of - the"! .evenof Ais.governmeht;' Now;!L' : :have up- wish-to-do MrStevens the■ least i in> ; l ] justice,-and for aught. I know/ Mr ! miiyhave mado'a- most edifying speech.. I ■■ suffering from a cold, and as it: appeared ..to.; me.tliat lie was wandering;from ,the! ? Bubject under ; : pf. - attention to liis! remarks.wliich ..theypossibly!; My:obj ect-iin;mentioning this to; ;you at all is. io; caltyour attention'';to, the : speech.-Ypu {occupy ;a':.position which .en--'?' : ablesand,obliges!you to criticise the thoughts!. (and! acts of publicmen; and if Mr Stafford's.! ideas of Mr Stevens' speech. are ; ..'correct, I ; , trust you will giye.it publicity and; canvass it ;freely;', : !'-;! .;■" .-' : '' ""■■; ';'-■■"■:;; : : \ ;.:;/;■ !;1:.; ; ;---J"!■; . ! !As it was understbbd that MrStafford stili. , ;reserved tp'himself-the;. right "off reply, .Mr' i M«prhouße coritinued the debate, in a speech : Containing, muchtruth; enliye'riedwith sundry ■touches humour.- It was how :past!pne o'clock,; and-the c flbuse!.became; ' ■ impatient to divide, but .not so, impatient !as'. tpdenyMr ArmstTObg;tlie: right of ,ingliimself anufayburiiigvhis;hearers with' ' the Akarpan view of.! the- .qiieationV ,;Mr; ;CampteU;of Oaniaruclosed; tlie; debate;with; a feiy : perthient; remarkiy/ the-Government' having; declined .to.! exercise! .the: !right 'of - - reply. Adivisiphfollbwed;with!!thß : foUowing ;: result.:— ;,! For—27. . !Aqainsi-36. ■fAdams, Baigent '".'.. ; Armstrong Ball '■ '■ A. Si-Atkinson , Bellv H. A. Atkinson ■.-' 'Borlase. (teller) Ludlam Brandon (teller) „ Bradshaw Bursa ; ::■.-■*■ Bunny... ~:.;■ ;?•> Campbell '.',-. W-& ■ Carletoa ■■■' , - ''■■■ ■- W ; . : ; Cargill ..; ■'■:&;' ■':" ..-Cox :;:.;■:' ■;■■"' : Clark. ■ : ;:-,;;.:\:--n::':;'■ ';: Curtis f':'k ;■■■■".' Dignan" I '^'!^-' ■: -Farmer. ~:•■■. ' Eyes Hail !:.-.-,- .; ~ G;.Graham''"""' Hahkinspn . . E. Graham Haughtpn. (teller) Harrisbn Haultain Heaphy Jbllie Hepburn M'liean Hull M'Neil Macandrew •Munson G. Macfarlan Ormprid % Macfarlane , Potts Main; A. J.. Richmond Moorhouse . J. G Richmond .. 0. O'Neill "■ Stafford (teller) . J. O'Neill -.-Stevens; . O'Rbrke^ ;;:Wells!( .... .Parker Wilson.;,. , Paterspn, - ■ .Beeves. :;-.:^-',-'";-.'■■:" - -,\ ,'./Beid;".'. "■■!.;,/ . Reynolds "."■' Studholme ■ ■."■ : '';r-; : ! ■ . ;Tayl(>r ...' . ' .'■ydgelWilliamson . -.,., :;Woodr"-' :'■ -It, will be seen that'seven .Canterbury. -. membersyb.ted for this! measure, ;and four against it :-- Fpar-7. .;. Aoaikst—'*-. Armstrong Macfarlan ■ Cox MporhOuse ■:" Sail Reeves . Jbllie '- Studholme Potts. : Stevens.: ; ; Wilson. . .'MrTravers,j.who had..announced his. irir- - ;tention. of voting against ;the ''biilj' :; jr'aV absent from ;■: the! Hou°e ;wheh the; division was called. One Canterbury seatjisstilluri- ' represented,:and this makes up. the' tale of members allotted tpyou; August 17. ■.;.•■ Another week ;pf; legislative business; has been got through; andlthink may, say. that ; ; the beneficial result to the country! has hardly .beenproportionate!tb.the extent!.and -costli;riess :of,,the : 'machinefy;:which' has-been at ; Withtheexception..of the?''Muhici- ; palCprporatiphs Bill," which has passed half- ! :iway;;tlirough committee^:no.-.work:of any. importance has; been.!, done,;.and ■the ..time !;of!-the.- House: .has.! been ; taken ! !up. ■;,chiefly!; in '/useless;,;partyVcliscus- ' Bionß,!pr;in ventilatingideas which:.can lead to.nb prMtiralTesuW;! The chief obstacle: to ; the progress of every measure ; beneficial;; to the'colonyi'consisti in the.wide ■ difference of opiriion which exists;between.;the;centralist ■arid proyincialist/parties.! This difference underlies-the.:surface :bf ;the: : whole House, and crops! up continually in the most; unexpected manner. .However, remote the subject rnatter may! be, it ib Bure to be tinged with the !iame party colour during the course of debate, and no deciflion is ever arrived at; quite independently, of one or, other of these views, v In .spite of assurances tol .the: .contrary,, the Government is evideritly bent upon systematically curtailing the power and privileges of the proyinces, and the champions of the latter aware;of, these : ;dangerous ■ihtentiiihs;''" that the Government!,brings./forward,: is, looked upon with suspicion .from the very outset, aridis carefully .scanned; in order to.;detect the mark of the hoof. Arid Vhererer that mark isdiscbyered, there; is .little chance of the measure being carried,, though;in other ", J respects it ;may.cbntairi;:.what the country requires.!! 'Nor, ir this!' strange, '") for - it '.cannot!beVexpected-.that those who realise thevalue of;, their local institutions, and remember'that nearly all .the good work that has been!done, in this colony has been done . :by them, should be willing to sign with their bwri hands the instrument of destruction;;!; :, From the picture I have here drawn it :;will be .obvious, to .you that the colony is the real sufferer.by the conflict of these parties, aiid that a settlement of the relative powers and position of the General and Pro- , vincial. Governments is a consummation de- : /.voiitly to be wished. ;That a glimmering of ; this truth pervades the minds of most of the leading; men in the House is evidenced by the partialresolutions which are promised, or ! have been-already brought forward onthe ■ !subject; ; !!;Biit the settlement of this vital question; will never be effected by simple reso- ! lntioris. The powers given to the Provinces ; by! the Constitution -Act, though vague, are ! .tangible;and are.too important either to be ... carried by assault,-stolen by fraud, or undermined by : craftily worded resolutions. The only way that ,1 can see out. of the difficulty , is, that the..position;rif. Provincial Governments should -be{defined by Act;;; If -the 1 leaders, of. .the. Provincial 'party would meet ■ tlie Government; in.. a. wise and moderate :.-■■ spirit,; a charter, of provincial rights might be 1.-. drawiiJup; which, would-,: define their powers 1: .and; leave them in; undisturbed possession of I; :thos3:pi;iyileges; : which;are necessary for the s prpsecu tiori : ; of J.thei r ''■; iin portant duties. : The s business of legislation would then proceed in ;!! comparative' / peace,!;! ; and;'!opportunityi:be I; I which; lias nigh wrecked the vessel of i -the State, .. ". .- ."'\-~'^L'. "'': "?-;r ! ■■ ':". On! Tuesday, last the Goldfields. Act .. -Amendment Act was iritroduced by the Colo-. f hial/.Secretary,;: ;The ;ostensible;purpbrt' of; i, : ..tMs.iAbt;was to. the t -goldflelds! to Superinteriderits, arid. Prbs '..Tincial Executives, arid it wasintrpduced.ai:

a sequel.. to the debn'teVvrhtch' yourreaderß'. .well remember took plnoo otiitho subjectb£ the non-delegation of the goldflolds powers to the Superintendent' of Otago. On: that !bc-; casion Mr.Stafford promised 'the. House'!, that: a free; and; unfettered .delegation of : !:power should be.'piren; to. the Superintendent niid,Executive;.of;;btago,;;Oii:;the/!faitli;!hf.thttt. pledge soverttl-miMubcrs 1 voted .with vernment, .believing that, a; full|;nnd! satis: factory',rcpanvtion; : ..had tlnis-hce'iiViniulbfp the Avrdngs inflicted.-upon Otago.; ; Scarcely however),had; Mr:.SfafEordLgiven !tlie./pledga! ;before;;he::hiiide lip..his riiirirl to ■■ iireak'-faiih'-with the House. ; The; alleged; excuse for this change' was. that the.. Gehpral; .Goyeriinvent .feltbound in honour to.prptect itsoffibialsoii; the goldflelds;; from the : vehireancd. of ..the! provincial authorities, ijor this purpose., a 'clause! was in the biilto etmlije!. the General! Government to fix the'-salaries - of goldflolds officers, and to render those salaries.; independent 0f... local interference by making,them a first charge-uppri .provincial revenues, i. -After .some 'discussion the. bill ■passed f a ;Becpiid; : reading .'without division, Ori.the fpllpwing:''evening: it went.into(com-! mittee, wliciv a long debatepf a very similar character to:, that rippri. the delegation of. powers! took !!plaGe,.!The tloiirie was grati-. fled -with ;;endless; personal receriminati.ons between ; the: Government and. the representatives of Otago, find-was. edified on.more ;than...one occasion .willi. hearing Mr Vogel ~,and., Mr... ,J. . ,G.. Richmond, give each :.other the conyenfiohali' polite ''parliamentary, lie!', aboutthervery undignified proceedings whicii. lately occurred on the, Otago'goldfiehls. At last,;and.ata very late 'hour, :Mr;Fifzherbert ahnoimned with coiisiderable- emphasis, that the Goverriracnt ihtended.'to make the-question a .ministerial' one.;! A division! was then.: called, when, the Goyernment!had! ; the! satisfactibripf'obtiiining !a large majority; \yliich. said majority must fi Q d it .yery diffleiiit-to igive!a sufßcient! reason why .they, ehdorsed a' .distinct breach of faith :on;theipart of the Government! I thiik it possible that theJGpyernment-may yet modify itsyiewsVaiid forbear.frpnvpressing the measnre.tpits.full; extent upbri: the Executive of Otago. : The : 'Miinlctpal fyrporrtions Bill has been introdiioedj and is. passing, through com> mittee;. The .Bill is. a very comprehensive measure,;and; ; as! its title suggestSi ig-intended to.apply,:to.all citiesr arid townships throughput the colony; ! ;Aitertheinelfectiial:attemptß that have been'made to meet the desire of Christchurch in this:. particular matter, : it is! tOjbeJlibped-that!the present bill will;prove itself adaptedtothe wants of those who. are :chiefly/interested;-; Among -oilier; mattery of detail Connected with .the measure which, have provoked disc^ trapdelbf/yoting for. ..cpuiicillbrs was keenly /debated. The ..friends , : of the ballot, sucr ceeded-BO far as to.carry a resplntibh; afßrmihg the advisability of!, adopting that method of taking the votes. !:The bill,. as. I have-said, is very, voluminous,.:,! and Beenrni meet every possible want or contingency that can be imagined. Mr Hall is carrying it through the House, and the work requires all the industry and energy for which that gentleman is so eminently remarkable.-";;;-; - ; :.:>-?;.;" ■■£; ""- ;J -'v!-; On 'Wednesday, -Mr Travers attempted to . test tlie;ppinion of the. House pna subject of considerable, importance, The object of his .motion was-fb,prove that it was desirable to -transfer the legislative and executive control oyer the police, gapisi hospitals, lunatic asylums, and harbours from the Prpvincia|!tp the. General Government authorities, but that.the.;former should retain the legialatiye and executive -■control, over local public works.and!the departments connected with colonization. Mr Travers made a very able and weil-cohsidered; speech on the question which, notwithstanding, failed to attract the sympathy of his hearers,. In the course of his address Mr Travers sustained his argument with a large, mass of evidence without . succeeding in convincing the House that the time hadarrived; when : it; would be .either! ■ practicable ! pr>ise!f6r!the--General ■ Government to/atternpt' to take the direct control, of these.importantdepartmehts into, its own. hands,! ' The.-debate was :continued.oyer. part of a secorid : .sittirig,! and ended in the .withdrawal :of ;the. motion. I think it .was: ■felt, that, the :remedy soughttp be applied was; not of a nature to : tbuch the root of the disease. ■ ■

On the same evening, Mr t); McLean, Superintendent of; Hawke's Say, a gentleman ofiarge.experierice in native affairs, introduced a; Bill for the. purpose: of granting the native; face' direct representation. Your readers, wilt remember that this subject has more than price been brought under the nptice!pf the legislature, arid that : .ongpf its ablest advocates was -Mr J. B. FitzGerald. _ On;this.. occasion Mr Jl'Leari; confined himself to a feyr remarks, urging a iayourable recep.tibn.fofthe principle of, the bill. The details of the measure did riot appear tohaye received! any yery close attep.tion;:frbm!, the mover,; who., seemed Jo. be Mifferentevenuppn-ffi .the-rjatives should berepresehted by memberß! oftheir own rape, or ; by "European's.;' The! ;House, hpweyer, : flid not share! iri.this feeling, but ;a decided-fbeling, a 'g a jn. g t ty admission of white representatives on the !grburid;/that. the; specimens -likely tb-i be returned would be eminently: unsatisfactory :in.eyefyrespect; A.gerieral:feelirig seemed tobe'entertained ;by:Northern; : memberi that the measure would; Have a bacifle effect:up6n ■ theiiativemind. . Should the bill becarried,; .and the experiment tried, I trust that these anticipations" will be fulfilled,. At the wofat, : it is but giving a smali'mpdicunibf justice to! : a race which we: profess;:to. consider in the light of fellow-subjects and citizens.' -"- :

■: ,On Thursday a in by the Defence Mimsterfbr.the.'establUliment of nn. armed ; - constabulary force' for". the North 1 .Island, rNo information;was given' asito the ;number} intended;/to be/enrolledorthecpst, but;fte Government /stated-', that; they/would notprbceed with. the;measure : until after the financial -.'statement:; had : been made.': The House Batisfiefl with this explanation, passed the second reading. ■'. 'X ;The ;has/given; notice ,tliat:he; ; will bring down tlieifloanckl-stateraentoh; /Wednesday next.; -As far. as I know; nothing, haslvtranspired.to :ehable^any ? opinion to'be formed about: this '< important;matter The; Opposition, indulge in gloomy,; anticipations;: and' hint that it will be necessary to.borrqvr more, raonej; before Void; accounts squared up, and the coJo'ny.put into a position to commencei anew.with a clearbalancesheet; There can be little doubt;that; our. financial position is bad enough, but : I.'do hot know that. there - is the least/real foundation.for these evil prophecies. -Still it must everbei ..borne in mind that no other, colony'presents a parallel-: to; New Zealand, because.there is none other that has flung away-.b'e'lween'three : and four, millions, of borrowed money/for totally unproductivei purposes.:.'."..- Many .years ; of steady,/growth and of ,carefuneconomical management will be required to recover from; the effects of ft folly which.was.consummated in a few short months.; 7'; ; . V':'■ ■-.-'■" The Committee onf Bankruptcy vhas. 're-: ported to the House recommending; that anew Act he introduced on this .important subject. I believe some members of the com-: ra'tttee have been closely engaged in : adapting the New Anglo-Scotch Act—now about tohe introduced in England—to the wants of:the. colony. A strong effort will be made to pass the bill this session, which, I hope, will/prove I successful; for Ibelievethecommunity would then be possessed of a measure which, if not' entirely -perfect or; simple,: would yet be an immense /improvement; upon .the- existing law. - y.v.?.; : ..: : It is generally-understood that Mr Hail will.resign his Beat in the/Ministry/, stoe time after the present session,,; ;'-.l believe Mr Hall finds-the.;fulfilment of;ihfa;::duties, to be so exacting as to/lcavei.him.np alternative but the total neglect of lur priynto;affairs, f.Mr Hall's retirement wilt.bei.a loßs..:tp/the colony, and a special loss to Canterbury. I 'should doubt if there is another public man. in .New' Zealand-, with;, ran-equal ;capaclty:;for;work. When to,,this, peculiarityiareaddeda sound judgment and long.experienc'oihpublic aftaira a result is arrived at which it is hard to:overestimate.and;which itwill/ba;/very difficulttoreprdduce; "■:■■■■'. .<:■: ./'■' *■'.-'' ;/-.'; , August.H : -■': /The interest/in the ;debates;of thisiweeklias : centred so Mirelyandsp justly, in the financial statement/that Isliall confine my obser-

yationOoniattersoutflidoof that to saying thatHhey.hayebeen niostly of a routine character, and.of. rib special local interest to your dreaders';; {...;' ■:. On :Tliurßday:evoning,. Mr Fitzherbert gave his .financial; 'statement, in a speecli which occupied something more than fivo hours in the.delivery. Most public speakers would have delivered iho.specch in little more than half Jtliotimp, hut.iMr Fitzherbert is exceedingly dcllbpratein-hisßtylp.of speaking and does not iiesitnteto-repcat himself for the sake of .producing; ; a lasting; impression upon his hearers. Tp..say!that the Bpeech was able anil cpmprehensive.jis to say no moro than hiiglit reasonably, bo expected from one who ; possessea;tho tal.orit. .and experience of the "sneaker;.! On tliis; occasion, Mr Fitzherbert ■■had morn to ; do than ordinarily falls to the ! lot of ;a-Treasurer; when making his annual statement; His address wasnotatallconnVd ;witli[ii!the,u9.ual limits of shewing what had ! become if. the. past:year's revenue, and what ';WaVtpsbe.;d6ne!-:witli,the next. He had a new.scheme-of finance to propose, which materially affected.many important existing Interests and arr'angeriients, and he performed .this;par.t! of; his work very ably. The plan of finance wiisisketched put with vigour and ability, the statemerits and calculations were ■clear arid! comprehensible, ann " 'he arguments adduced-in supportpf his views, if not altogether unanswerable;,and conclusive, wer* always '/.{npempus ; ;and well-sustained. In;fact,.it ; must ,be admitted even by those ■whb-differ radically;from the views of the Treasurer, that there, is an imposing appeararice.abotit his: statement, calculated to inspire faith in the abijitv of the man who could frame it... Whether the scheme will sfaiid the close examination and criticism to which it will be -submitted, remnins to be pmvelli Asyet,it : is:too soon to form an opinipn, .: As-.the mail steamer .carries down a correct verbal reprirtof the speech, I shall confine myself; to giving account of the main, features; of :the scheme, drawing your attention-;at the .same time to a few statements of special: interest which came out in the course of the speech. Before, entering 1 -upon-, the new scheme of policy involved, I will call attention to the leading points in the history of the past financial; year, and in the estimates for 1868, as-stated.by. the Treasurer. The estimated income for the past year has proved wonderfiilly cor'rect,;!and,!nat.urally gave occasion to Mr Fitzherbert for a; little self-glorification. !Tii,elargesurii of £900,000 calculated to be rcceiyed'frorivCustbms'ahd stamps fell short of that amount only-by eleven hundred pounds. ' The receipts and expenditure ordinary and extraordinary, for the past year amounting to about £1,310,000 balanced each other within ibbut-iaqoo. Of the receipts, !£l,o6o,doo:in ; rb!und:numbers, were raised by taxation, and jE32i>,rjob! from loan, the greater part; of iyhicli latter sum, has been expended ,tp meet liabilities connected with the military settlements in the North Island. It was mentioned that a sum of! £17,000 had been received frpm confiscated- lands, but that the incidental expenses.. had entirely swallowed up the receipts. Your readers will probably remember that when the colony, was asked to assent to the Three Million Loan, Mr Reader Wood held out the .hope that something like two millions would be recbup_ed-by.;the'sale...o{ confiscated lands. The result,-'of those; .false expectations can now., be,exactly '.summed up. The colony will get nothing frpfri tlie sale of confiscated lands, and it is proposed in the present scheme.to.hand,the estates over as a gift to the provinces. I believe; that this course is necessaryj and/the; best.that can be adopted; but it is a huge disappointment, and without remedy. Considerable; surprise will be felt throughout the; .cOloriy;at the small returns ; received from the stamp duties, and much of this will be due to the exaggerated hopes held oiitby thojev/hb ■founded erroneous calculations upon, the fact, that, because a large supply of Stamps wasi'.;is'sned in the first instance to the various, offices for sale,. the ..annual income would prove proportionate to that issue. Apart from this mistake, howeyer.it was generally thought that the Tresurer's estimate- wbuld!:be exceeded. This ! has.;not turned; Puttobe the case, the receipts Jhaving !proyed ■ lessi; than the estimate by nearly '! ..!

. The revenue for the coming year is calculated at £i;i)Bi,oooi and the expenditure, exclusive of the! provincial appropriations, at £744,000. No increase of taxation isproppsedj.nor; is any hope of decrease held Out. In fact, l.tisdifleult;to see how in the present position of.. the colony either course is practicable; The public burdens are as great asicanh.ehbrrie,.arid'yet every farthing is /required to; maintain tlie existing order of things. It will be a hard! task for those provinces .which have; .rib land fund to meet their obligations out'bf! .the share of revenue tpbe .allotted to them; and the estimates of the General; Government; ;Bhcw the smallest margin wherewith ;to r meet contingencies. S.ucha moderate diminution in the revenue as might at ariy time, be!reasonably expected tb;occ"ur;wpuld.upset;the present fine-drawn calculations,, arid! fpfce.the Government to go again as. ; : .borrowers in to -the money-market. Npthirigbuhheimost! ruthless system of retrenchment, both .by General and Provincial Governments, can my- possibility save the cplbrtyfronr indebtedness,

The. estimates'-for. Defence are not included iii the Ordinary expenditure, why, it would perhaps be difficult' to jay, unless it be admitted that the colony cannot provide the means put of; prdinary; revenue, The Government tells the. cqlony>:that peace prevails and that the armed constabulary force which it proposes to raise and for which it asks asum—for; ibis maintain that state of peace. And yet the cost of its maintenance is not charged against the ordinary: revenue, :but;\is to be provided for: by loan. :A'further sum of £45.000 is askedHp provide the means of meeting any jcbntihgehcies that may; arise to disturb this state'of. armed peace, ; arid this sum also is to ahdjvpluriteers' amounting to £28,000 is to be charged against the Provinces. As a set-off ■against these demands the Treasurer pointed out the enormous diminution that has occurred in thecost of the.' Defence ' department. At. the same time lie declared that the Government'must and would always be prepar'ea.to defend ilie peace,;;and as we may suppose .the present shew the lowest .cost for which this state of preparation;\ can'^be^achieved'it is evident that the least that the colony can. hope to': be charged with tor keeping the native population quiet. When i'tp' this IB added any.unknown sum you please ;td meet >tlie 'contingency of ;, disturbance, the people of the Middle Island can now calculate in some degree what they will have to pay in tlie ; future for.the protection of their' brothers ■iri'theNorth/ 5 '... ; : The new scheme.of financial policy comprises* several "matters of importance which inay : summarised\under tlie following ; . i. ■Consolidatibh of Provincial Loans. 2. Redistribution of Revenue. 3. .Consolidation of Public Revenues. 4.'Settlement of Outstanding Claims, &c, 5.. Borrowing more Money. The consolidation of the' Provincial Loans ;is.to beaffected by., raising from time to time ft new Colonial Loan, and devoting the proceeds tithe purchase of existing .provincial debentures at fixed rates and within a certain ; limited period;;.---Those. provinces which have not yet used all or any part of their borrowing powers are .to have.the mnney raised for and paid:over;to; : them. The interest and sinking fund paid by the General Government will be charged against tlie provinces which have received the proceeds of the loan. The consolidated revenues—that is, the whole ordinary revenues of the colony-will be tho security given to the foreign creditor, but tho Colonial Government will hold the territorial revenue of each province liable to meet the interest of its loans, should its share of the ordinary revenue not. prove sufficient. Any profit that may accrue from the conversion of the loans will be handed over to the provinces. Tho redistribution of the revenue between the General and Provincial Governments is a '.'measure.'which has long been of obvious 'necessity.,;;' Hitherto the provinces have been ;in the.receipt of an uncertain share of the general revenues, i Now, they are to receive by law one half of ..the.consolidated revenue of the colony, Againit this ahare will bo

writen off the cost of those services which are specially charged by the General Government against the provinces, and the interest and sinking fund of the debts which the General Government has endorsed. The surplus will then be handed over to the provinces month hy month, and nil the difficulties and delays which have arisen from uncertain appropriations and unsettled accounts will; for the future, he avoided. As a mutterof course the surplus revenue act will ho repealed. A new act, called the Public lievenues Bill, is to be introduced, to consolidate all the laws respecting the receipt and control of public moneys. I'ho proposed measure provides reflations for the novel financial arrangements between the General Government and the provinces. Several important and sweeping changes in matters of account are to be effected by the General Government. The most important of these- is the total abandonment by the colony of any claim for that portion of the three million loan which was.allocated against the provinces of Auckland, Taranaki, Hawke's Iky, and Wellington. It will be remembered that certain portions of that loan were expended upon objects specially connected with provincial interests, and that a sum amounting to about a quarter of a million was allocated between, the provinces of the North Island. It now appears that, with the exception of Wellington, none of the other provinces have paid the interest of their debts, and despairing, I suppose, of ever seeing either interest or capital again, Mr Fitzherbert proposes freely to forgive them all. In addition to this,.you will perhaps remember that some eighteen months ago Auckland obtained £loo,ooo' from Mr Stafford on the plea of taking over the management of the confiscated lands in that province, and after spending the money, suddenly gave up the task. This sum also is to be forgiven, an act of liberality which you would appreciate more keenly, perhaps, if it were not performed with your own money, In order-to render the proposal still more* palatable to the South, the Treasurer chose the occasion to remind the representatives of the Middle Island that they had made a most excellent bargain, in the compact of 1856, by which the lan I revenue was handed oyer to the provinces. He informed them that in America, the territorial revenue was treated as general revenue, and quoted his authority for the statement with the greatest unction. He went on to shew that no less than three millions of money had been raised from land revenue in the Middle Island since the oftquoted year of 1856, and then threw out the suggestion that if those revenues had remained in the hands of those who ought to have retained a right over them, the three million, loan might not have been required. He lingered tenderly over this part of his subject, and absolutely revelled '• in the peculiar significance of the amount." But with consummate tact, suddenly changing his tone, he declared with emphasis," that a bargain was a bargain all the world over, and that though we have made the most stupid bargain with the South; we will stand by it, but we will not permit the Soutli to cast our folly in our teeth." The line of argument, the tone, and something in the manner of the speaker reminded me forcibly of a scene in one of Dickens' works, to which the Treasurer had already referred in the course of his speech—Oliver Twist. Among the more prominent characters in that story is to be found an old Jew, of the name of Fagan, who follows the reputable trade of receiving stolen goods and training up juvenile thieves. On stated occasions, the old gentleman used to put his pupils through their facings, Acting the part of a respectable citizen, with watch in fob and handkerchief in pocket, Fagan would walk up and down the room while the Artful Dodger and his companions emptied his pockets with more or less dexterity, for which they received from the old man proportionate encouragement or censure. It is needless to say that Fa«an never practised upon the public himself. Our colonial Fagan is an honourable man; he protests that a bargain is a bargain, but he does his beat to triin up a generation of thieves, by furnishing them on every appropriate occasion with all the arguments and suggestions in favour of spoliation which a fertile brain can develop. In addition to releasing the Northern provinces from their debts, and handing over to them the confiscated lands, Mr Fitzherbert proposes on the part of the General Government to give up all claims for advances made to the provinces in excess of sums absolutely due to them under existing arrangements. The amount thus wiped out is £ 183,000. By the process of adjustment proposed, which seems to be just in principle, some provinces will have to pay over to others the sums received in excess of the average, In this way, Otago will have to pay Auckland about £25,000. Canterbury will be delivered from the obligation of having to pay £36,000, and will, in fact, receive a few hundreds instead.

To provide for the cost of Defence, for the extension of the telegraph to Auckland, for the payment of an old debt to Taranaki, and for building one or two more light-houses—-amounting in all to £259,000, the colony will require to raise more money. But Mr Fitzherbert does not propose to bring in a new Loan Act, only a further Loan Appropriation Act. In other words, the Government do not propose to borrow the money in a straightforward way, but to adopt a shift which appears to me neither particularly honest nor wise. The Loan Act of 1863 is said to be capable of being strained to mean that power was given to the colony to raise three millions of money. Well, of course that has not been raised, because the discount has amounted to about £260,000. It is proposed now, under power of the Act, to make up the amount receiveable to £3,000,000 sterling. But in doing this Government is flying in the face of custom, and adopting a dodge which will do as much to injure the credit of the colony as the consolidation scheme will do to improve it, It is really a pity to see men, who are capable of conceiving large and wise measures, become so blinded as to descend to such pettifogging contrivances. It would be a thousand times better to borrow the money distinctly, nor would this cause any inconvenience at a time when the co'ony is about to enter the market as a borrower for the purposes of conversion and consolidation.

Of the ultimate fate of the financial scheme I cannot form any decided opinion. Reasoning from analogy, and observing that most of the "sturdy claimants." as Mr Fitzherbert terms the provinces, are gainers in some way or other, I should say it would pass without material alteration. But) it is impossible to conceal the fact that though it may be well for the Governments, it is not well for the people. The public d-bt is increased, taxation is not diminished, and while the revenue is estimated at the highest point yet reached in the history of the colony the expenditure leaves no margin for contingent misfortunes, or claims of any kind. And to add to this, we are asked in a time of peace to inaugurate the nucleus of a permanent standing army. The other business of the House lias not been of special interest, though a good deal of useful committee work has been got through. The Municipal Corporations Bill has passed through committee, with sundry amendments, and will soon be the law of the land. The new Bankruptcy Bill is just out of the printer's hands, and will come under the consideration of the House on Tuesday next.

Coal at Hokitika.—A. West Const paper of August 23, states-:—One of the most striking results of the surf blockade under which the town is suffering, is the bare condition of the coal market, as we believe we are within bounds in stating that there is not ten tons of the commodity left in Hokitika. Hotel and restaurant keepers are driven to their wits' end on this account, for in consequence of the abundant and cheap supply of coal that was until very lately attainable, grates and stoves, constructed especially for the consumption of that kind of fuel, have been generally adopted, ami are now next to useless—heated by wood fuel only, Ten shillings per cwt is freclv offered, but finds no response, and he who first gets a cargo in will be a lucky man, as its disposal in small lots at enormous profit maybe depended upon. The scarcity will be relieved when the bar clears, as we know there are either one or two coal laden vessels amongst the fleet outside, and others at Greymouth ready to start when the weather improves.

£ 8. (1. Expenditure in year 1858-9... 4,415 15 : 7 1859-60 27i07(i 15 6 „ „ 1S60-L. 62;634 10 6 „ 1S61-2... 18 2 „ „ 1862-3.. 203 013 12 8 „ 18634... 853,146 2 3 „ „ 1864-5... 886,259 0 11 „ „ 186.1-6... 473;348 18 4 „ „ 1866-7... 327*180 9 1 that is to say the Defence expenditure was not much more than one-third.of. what it was.in.the two years 1863-4 'li'iid 1864-5, when .it readied its maximum. It is' also Satisfactory to note that the ratio of "Native Expenditure'' is decreasing, as is shewn by the; following statement of expenditure for native purposes for the financial years from 1858416 1866 7, both inclusive :- Expenditure in year 1858-9... * B. u. 11,109 15 4 ,, „ 1859-60 17,140 8 7 „ ., 1860-1... 17,800 14 6 „ 1S61-2.... 25,3:o 7 11 „ „ 1862-3... 53;412 19 1 „ „ 18634... 3 2 j, ., 1864-5... 60,291 6 9 „ „ 1865-rt... 19 0 „ „ 1866^7./. 23.751 4 0